NSA Leaker's story has sprung a leak

[grizzaholic]

http://news.yahoo.com/5-ways-nsa-leaker ... 00971.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In ways both big and small, Snowden's tale of patriotic betrayal is spouting its own leaks

[houndawg]

The idea is to make him the story.

[kalm]

So according to Booze Allen and several former NSA and CIA operatives including the guy who was the head of both, there are some holes in his story?

[ASUG8]

Either way, even if he fudged a few things he forced the NSA to admit and address a number of accusations that otherwise would have been suspected but not validated. For an alleged high school dropout that's pretty huge, and pretty ballsy to take on an organization that likely could kill him.

I agree dawg, it kind of is all about him right now. As long as he stays visible it would make the US government's involvement in his potential "disappearance" much less likely.

[ASUMountaineer]

Either way, even if he fudged a few things he forced the NSA to admit and address a number of accusations that otherwise would have been suspected but not validated. For an alleged high school dropout that's pretty huge, and pretty ballsy to take on an organization that likely could kill him.

I agree dawg, it kind of is all about him right now. As long as he stays visible it would make the US government's involvement in his potential "disappearance" much less likely.

my exact thoughts.

[Ibanez]

Either way, even if he fudged a few things he forced the NSA to admit and address a number of accusations that otherwise would have been suspected but not validated. For an alleged high school dropout that's pretty huge, and pretty ballsy to take on an organization that likely could kill him.

I agree dawg, it kind of is all about him right now. As long as he stays visible it would make the US government's involvement in his potential "disappearance" much less likely.

His salary was a red flag for me.

That and anyone that has worked in the government and gone to another government agency knows it takes almost a month for you to regain access to secret/classified areas and docs. Given that and training, his 3 months was more like less than 60 days.

[Ibanez]

The idea is to make him the story.

Yeah, and that's the problem. What he leaked should be Page 1. Snowden should be Page 4 (maybe 5, it depends if the Amish took out a full page ad.)

[clenz]

Either way, even if he fudged a few things he forced the NSA to admit and address a number of accusations that otherwise would have been suspected but not validated. For an alleged high school dropout that's pretty huge, and pretty ballsy to take on an organization that likely could kill him.

I agree dawg, it kind of is all about him right now. As long as he stays visible it would make the US government's involvement in his potential "disappearance" much less likely.

Agreed....


So, he lied about how much he makes (shit, I do that almost every day though not to that extent) and when he left the country (I lie about what time I leave for shit all of the time)


The fact is, out of his allegations what has been proven false?

[Ibanez]

For his first week or two with Booz Allen, Snowden attended training sessions near Fort Meade, the Maryland military installation where NSA headquarters is located and where numerous agency contractors have offices.

After that, Snowden moved to take up his assignment with a company team based at the NSA installation in Hawaii. He was only on the job for around four weeks when he told his employers he was ill and requested leave without pay, the sources said.

When Booz Allen checked in with him, Snowden said he was suffering from epilepsy and needed more time off. When he failed to return after a longer period, and the company could not find him, it notified intelligence officials because of Snowden's high-level security clearance, one of the sources said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/ ... A220130612" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think he'd been planning this for a long time.

[Pwns]

I'm a civil libertarian, but this has smelled like dogsh** to me from day 1.

[clenz]

How does one, and this may be a naive question, get such a high security clearance while being essentially brand new to the company?


Do all employees have that level of clearance?

[Ibanez]

How does one, and this may be a naive question, get such a high security clearance while being essentially brand new to the company?


Do all employees have that level of clearance?

He had that clearance before he went to Booz Allen. Security clearances will follow you from agency to agency. Not all employees need that level. You have Confidential, Secret and then Top Secret. There are varying levels of Top Secret but those are the 3 levels.

Confidential is easy and takes a few weeks. Secret is a bit more stringent, take a bit longer( up to a year) and involves a credit review as well as interviews. If you can't pay your bills, you probably won't get it. When you fill out your application, you include all of your debts. If you are honest and explain why you are late or why you were having trouble, most investigators will make a determination if you are cleared or not. You put down things like every address you've lived at, every person you've lived with, every time you've left the country, if you or your family has ties to foreign military (this one tripped me up, my brother works with Israelis and they are all prior military), if you've done drugs, criminal records, etc...

Top Secret is the most stringent and even then you have vary levels of TS.

[ASUG8]

I find it interesting that even so early in his brief tenure he already had enough damaging information to cause the NSA to have to address this. Was he not properly vetted as a security risk in the interview process?

[Ibanez]

I find it interesting that even so early in his brief tenure he already had enough damaging information to cause the NSA to have to address this. Was he not properly vetted as a security risk in the interview process?

That's an interesting question. How did the government investigators gauge him when he took his Polygraph for the TS clearance? I'm sure nothing he had done or said years ago would give cause to question his loyalty. Was something happening that caused him to suddenly act? Robert Hanssen needed money and that prompted him to sell secrets to the Soviets and then Russians. Something tells me that he had this information and the plans to do this longer than 3 months. It just doesn't make sense to me that someone is loyal for 10 years, working with the CIA and NSA and within 4 weeks of being on a new job he suddenly turns as a "leaker" or "whistle blower."

[kalm]

I find it interesting that even so early in his brief tenure he already had enough damaging information to cause the NSA to have to address this. Was he not properly vetted as a security risk in the interview process?

That's an interesting question. How did the government investigators gauge him when he took his Polygraph for the TS clearance? I'm sure nothing he had done or said years ago would give cause to question his loyalty. Was something happening that caused him to suddenly act? Robert Hanssen needed money and that prompted him to sell secrets to the Soviets and then Russians. Something tells me that he had this information and the plans to do this longer than 3 months. It just doesn't make sense to me that someone is loyal for 10 years, working with the CIA and NSA and within 4 weeks of being on a new job he suddenly turns as a "leaker" or "whistle blower."

I agree. But sometimes it takes awhile for these things to build up and for lifetime decisions like this to be made. I'm also guessing the ability to spy on our own citizens has improved over the last 10 years.

As for loyalty, he appears smart enough and patriotic enough to swear his loyalty to the constitution and the ideals of America rather than the NSA or his employer.

[Ibanez]

That's an interesting question. How did the government investigators gauge him when he took his Polygraph for the TS clearance? I'm sure nothing he had done or said years ago would give cause to question his loyalty. Was something happening that caused him to suddenly act? Robert Hanssen needed money and that prompted him to sell secrets to the Soviets and then Russians. Something tells me that he had this information and the plans to do this longer than 3 months. It just doesn't make sense to me that someone is loyal for 10 years, working with the CIA and NSA and within 4 weeks of being on a new job he suddenly turns as a "leaker" or "whistle blower."

I agree. But sometimes it takes awhile for these things to build up and for lifetime decisions like this to be made. I'm also guessing the ability to spy on our own citizens has improved over the last 10 years.

As for loyalty, he appears smart enough and patriotic enough to swear his loyalty to the constitution and the ideals of America rather than the NSA or his employer.

I agree. This wasn't something he decided to do back in April or May.

[kalm]

Snowden shouldn't be prosecuted, but James Clapper should...

Seeking to move the national discussion away from the NSA’s potential crimes, many politicians and pundits are, not surprisingly, continuing to insist that Snowden revealed only legal programs and is therefore not a whistleblower. They are, in other words, trying to ignore the fact that whether or not the NSA programs are illegal (and they very well may be) Snowden at minimum revealed a case of potential criminal perjury – and an extremely serious one at that. As Wyden says, “One of the most important responsibilities a senator has is oversight of the intelligence community (and) this job cannot be done responsibly if senators aren’t getting straight answers to direct questions.”

Now that a United States congressman is starting the drumbeat for Clapper’s resignation, the rejoinder will almost certainly be a version of what Clapper told National Journal and NBC News.

In the former interview, Clapper said he “stand(s) by” his statement to the Senate and insisted “What I said was, the NSA does not voyeuristically pore through U.S. citizens’ e-mails.” Of course, as New York magazine points out, that’s not what he said – not even close.

In the latter interview, Clapper again stood by his statement, and claimed “I responded in what I thought was the most truthful, or least untruthful, manner.”


These talking points will no doubt metastasize into the idea that because he was asked about a classified program, Clapper had no choice but to lie, and that therefore outright lying is somehow the “least untruthful” – and therefore acceptable – thing to do in his situation. That’s right, apparently as if living in 1984, we are all supposed to believe that war is peace, freedom is slavery and, now, yes, lying is not untruthful.

Beyond its Orwellian absurdity, the problem with that line of reasoning is that it is fundamentally false. We know Clapper didn’t have to lie because other people in a similar position managed to not commit perjury. As one example, at a Senate hearing in 2006, then-Attorney General Alberto Gonzales was asked a similar question about mass surveillance, and answered by saying simply: “The programs and activities you ask about, to the extent that they exist, would be highly classified.”

Clapper didn’t do this – instead, with a day’s notice of the question, he decided to lie to Congress. And, as The New York Times Andrew Rosenthal says, that’s a big deal.

“Government officials employ various tactics to avoid actually saying anything at intelligence hearings, mostly by fogging up the room with references to national security and with vague generalities,” he writes. “Outright lying is another matter…You have to wonder about giving a position of vast responsibility to someone who can beat Mr. Gonzales in dishonesty.”

http://billmoyers.com/2013/06/12/james-clapper-must-go/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BTW, Clapper is a former Booze Allen executive.

[Ibanez]

Snowden shouldn't be prosecuted, but James Clapper should...

Seeking to move the national discussion away from the NSA’s potential crimes, many politicians and pundits are, not surprisingly, continuing to insist that Snowden revealed only legal programs and is therefore not a whistleblower. They are, in other words, trying to ignore the fact that whether or not the NSA programs are illegal (and they very well may be) Snowden at minimum revealed a case of potential criminal perjury – and an extremely serious one at that. As Wyden says, “One of the most important responsibilities a senator has is oversight of the intelligence community (and) this job cannot be done responsibly if senators aren’t getting straight answers to direct questions.”

Now that a United States congressman is starting the drumbeat for Clapper’s resignation, the rejoinder will almost certainly be a version of what Clapper told National Journal and NBC News.

In the former interview, Clapper said he “stand(s) by” his statement to the Senate and insisted “What I said was, the NSA does not voyeuristically pore through U.S. citizens’ e-mails.” Of course, as New York magazine points out, that’s not what he said – not even close.

In the latter interview, Clapper again stood by his statement, and claimed “I responded in what I thought was the most truthful, or least untruthful, manner.”


These talking points will no doubt metastasize into the idea that because he was asked about a classified program, Clapper had no choice but to lie, and that therefore outright lying is somehow the “least untruthful” – and therefore acceptable – thing to do in his situation. That’s right, apparently as if living in 1984, we are all supposed to believe that war is peace, freedom is slavery and, now, yes, lying is not untruthful.

Beyond its Orwellian absurdity, the problem with that line of reasoning is that it is fundamentally false. We know Clapper didn’t have to lie because other people in a similar position managed to not commit perjury. As one example, at a Senate hearing in 2006, then-Attorney General Alberto Gonzales was asked a similar question about mass surveillance, and answered by saying simply: “The programs and activities you ask about, to the extent that they exist, would be highly classified.”

Clapper didn’t do this – instead, with a day’s notice of the question, he decided to lie to Congress. And, as The New York Times Andrew Rosenthal says, that’s a big deal.

“Government officials employ various tactics to avoid actually saying anything at intelligence hearings, mostly by fogging up the room with references to national security and with vague generalities,” he writes. “Outright lying is another matter…You have to wonder about giving a position of vast responsibility to someone who can beat Mr. Gonzales in dishonesty.”

http://billmoyers.com/2013/06/12/james-clapper-must-go/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BTW, Clapper is a former Booze Allen executive.

It's all a revolving door.

[93henfan]

How does one, and this may be a naive question, get such a high security clearance while being essentially brand new to the company?


Do all employees have that level of clearance?

At the highest levels of classification, the potential damage that could be done to the US is supposed to be mitigated by compartmentalization. You might be granted access to the keys to the car, but another guy does the steering, and another guy pushes the gas pedal, etc. It takes several people to make the vehicle move, and no one person can do it all. When I heard this guy's claim, especially as a contractor, that he had God powers, it smelled like bullshit to me.

Regarding how soon you can get a clearance, it depends on the status of your last clearance. If you are still within the window of a background check done for a previous clearance, they can get your clearance turned back on almost immediately. All your info is in a Government database.

[Ibanez]

How does one, and this may be a naive question, get such a high security clearance while being essentially brand new to the company?


Do all employees have that level of clearance?

At the highest levels of classification, the potential damage that could be done to the US is supposed to be mitigated by compartmentalization. You make be granted access to the keys to the car, but another guy does the steering, and another guy pushes the gas pedal, etc. It takes several people to make the vehicle move, and no one person can do it all. When I heard this guy's claim, especially as a contractor, that he had God powers, it smelled like bullshit to me.

Regarding how soon you can get a clearance, it depends on the status of your last clearance. If you are still within the window of a background check done for a previous clearance, they can get your clearance turned back on almost immediately. All your info is in a Government database.

I'd be willing to bet that this guy was TS/SCI. Maybe even SAP if he was working with the NSA.

[93henfan]

At the highest levels of classification, the potential damage that could be done to the US is supposed to be mitigated by compartmentalization. You make be granted access to the keys to the car, but another guy does the steering, and another guy pushes the gas pedal, etc. It takes several people to make the vehicle move, and no one person can do it all. When I heard this guy's claim, especially as a contractor, that he had God powers, it smelled like bullshit to me.

Regarding how soon you can get a clearance, it depends on the status of your last clearance. If you are still within the window of a background check done for a previous clearance, they can get your clearance turned back on almost immediately. All your info is in a Government database.

I'd be willing to bet that this guy was TS/SCI. Maybe even SAP if he was working with the NSA.

And we know what the C stands for in SCI, so you agree he's lying, right?

[Ibanez]

I'd be willing to bet that this guy was TS/SCI. Maybe even SAP if he was working with the NSA.

And we know what the C stands for in SCI, so you agree he's lying, right?

Lying about his level of access? Yes. Like you said, he is admitting to have "God" powers. I'm not savvy on all the NSA protocols but i'd venture a guess and say that various checks are done to ensure the illegal spying that we are afraid of doesn't occur. Or occurs rarely and is really some angry ex husband checking up on his wife.

He is probably being honest about the programs and the extent at which they are utilized, even with SCI, he could have had access to that and learn enough to be dangerous.

[93henfan]

And we know what the C stands for in SCI, so you agree he's lying, right?

Lying about his level of access? Yes. Like you said, he is admitting to have "God" powers. I'm not savvy on all the NSA protocols but i'd venture a guess and say that various checks are done to ensure the illegal spying that we are afraid of doesn't occur. Or occurs rarely and is really some angry ex husband checking up on his wife.

He is probably being honest about the programs and the extent at which they are utilized, even with SCI, he could have had access to that and learn enough to be dangerous.

Yes, I should have clarified. He's lying about his power, not the programs.

[expandspanos]

Card-carrying member of The Illuminati
Camp Counselor at Bohemian Grove

Wow.. very nice Glad you know about Bohemian Grove now.. curious if you've asked you friends if they've ever heard of it? I bet they haven't..

anyway, funny comic related to this NSA garbage:

[93henfan]

Card-carrying member of The Illuminati
Camp Counselor at Bohemian Grove

Wow.. very nice Glad you know about Bohemian Grove now.. curious if you've asked you friends if they've ever heard of it? I bet they haven't..

anyway, funny comic related to this NSA garbage:

Actually, I've known about Bohemian Grove for almost 20 years. A fellow Marine gave me the book Behold a Pale Horse and insisted I read it. It was entertaining, but boy, what a load of patchworked bullshit! That's a sort of make or break book. There's 98% of the population that can read it and laugh. Then there's the other 2% who get sucked in and start saying that Sandy Hook and 9/11 were Government drills.