NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by BDKJMU »

Ibanez wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:
Oh BS "We've known about the this since Bush admin". If we knew about it, then it wouldn't have been classified. :roll: We didn't know about Prism. We didn't know 9 major internet companies and several phone companies were being used to spy on Americans.

You must have believed what Obama spoonfeed you when he said every member of congress had been briefed on these programs. Every Congressman HASN'T been biefed on this programs:

"DEM. SENATOR SHUTS DOWN OBAMA’S DEFENSE: ‘AVERAGE MEMBER’ OF CONGRESS NOT AWARE OF THE EXTENT OF GOVERNMENT SPYING

.......;Durbin told Politico that while congressional leadership and intelligence committee members were given information about the programs, the “average member” of Congress was likely not aware of the extent of the government’s monitoring.

“They don’t receive this kind of briefing,” Durbin said of the rank-and-file members.......

....Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) told Politico he “hadn’t been briefed on this particular issue” of the government obtaining phone records, and Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.) said he learned of it through news reports — though added it “wasn’t a surprise.”

Rep. Billy Long (R-Mo.) replied “Not quite!” in response to a journalist’s tweet that said “Obama says “every member of Congress” has been briefed on phone program #NSA.”"
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06 ... nt-spying/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Republican lawmakers: NSA surveillance news to us

......Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio), House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (Calif.), Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (Nev.) and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) also get briefed, along with intelligence committee chairs and ranking members. Rank-and-file members of Congress, however, are only periodically briefed on specific incidents — there have been briefings recently on Syria and the Boston bombings......"
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/r ... 92418.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
:ohno: :ohno:

This level of eavesdropping and surveillance isn't new. This is an extension of the warrant less wiretapping and surveillance that Bush authorized. You don't have the balls to admit it. Obama has expanded the same domestic spying techniques that Bush used post 9/11.

Did you not see my skepticism in saying, "if everyone congressman had been briefed on these programs...?" I was listening to his speech on ACA when he was asked this question and immediately called it as "BS."
Expansion.

It may not be new, but it was expanded under Obama, neither you nor I nor anyone else on this board (unless someone here has a TS clearance and works/contracts for the CIA or NSA) here knew about it. "It" being PRISM & the internet & phone companies being tapped.
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by Ibanez »

BDKJMU wrote:
Ibanez wrote: :ohno: :ohno:

This level of eavesdropping and surveillance isn't new. This is an extension of the warrant less wiretapping and surveillance that Bush authorized. You don't have the balls to admit it. Obama has expanded the same domestic spying techniques that Bush used post 9/11.

Did you not see my skepticism in saying, "if everyone congressman had been briefed on these programs...?" I was listening to his speech on ACA when he was asked this question and immediately called it as "BS."
Expansion.

It may not be new, but it was expanded under Obama, neither you nor I nor anyone else on this board (unless someone here has a TS clearance and works/contracts for the CIA or NSA) here knew about it. "It" being PRISM & the internet & phone companies being tapped.
Obama continued (extended) and expanded the surveillance. But c'mon, we knew they were doing it during Bush. Did you really believe that they stopped in 2007(2008?)
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by BDKJMU »

Ibanez wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:
Expansion.

It may not be new, but it was expanded under Obama, neither you nor I nor anyone else on this board (unless someone here has a TS clearance and works/contracts for the CIA or NSA) here knew about it. "It" being PRISM & the internet & phone companies being tapped.
Obama continued (extended) and expanded the surveillance. But c'mon, we knew they were doing it during Bush. Did you really believe that they stopped in 2007(2008?)
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:
Ok, nevermind. He should be doing nothing.. :roll:
Did I say that? No, I didn't. Stick to posting articles as your posts instead of offering anything of value.

Paul is being reactionary. We've known about this since the Bush administration. Why has it taken 5 plus years to introduce a bill to curtail these actions? And if everyone congressman had been briefed on these programs, why wasn't there action taken then?
I see no "skepticism" or sarcasm here, Mark. You're backpedaling.
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by GrizFanStuckInUtah »

93henfan wrote:NSA has been storing intercepted data for decades. Originally, it was directed toward the Communist bloc, then the ragheads, but it was inevitably going to turn toward domestic spying eventually.

And while your communications might not be viewed in real time, don't think they aren't being stored as 0s and 1s for later analysis if you ever become a target.

It really is frightening.

They are building a HUGE NSA facility here in Utah, between Salt Lake and Provo. I don't know a lot of details about it, only what is rumored and it has been under construction for a year or so. I am hearing around 60 MegaWatts of power to run computers and it will be a mostly lights out facility. They must be ramping up their storage capacity. :shock:

I am sure they have been spying on this stuff for years and I don't think there is much we can do about it. The real question you have to ask yourself is, are they(the government) looking out for our best interest or the government's best interest. All the secrecy is what needs to be removed, that is the failure here IMHO. I am waiting to see how this all plays out before I render an opinion as I think the jury is still out.
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by Ibanez »

BDKJMU wrote:
Ibanez wrote:
Obama continued (extended) and expanded the surveillance. But c'mon, we knew they were doing it during Bush. Did you really believe that they stopped in 2007(2008?)
Image
That's cute. You took someone else's picture and is using it as your own. That's precious. Both Obama and Bush have many problems. Bush blamed Clinton, Obama blamed Bush. It's pathetic.
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Ibanez wrote: Did I say that? No, I didn't. Stick to posting articles as your posts instead of offering anything of value.

Paul is being reactionary. We've known about this since the Bush administration. Why has it taken 5 plus years to introduce a bill to curtail these actions? And if everyone congressman had been briefed on these programs, why wasn't there action taken then?
I see no "skepticism" or sarcasm here, Mark. You're backpedaling.
:roll:
No backpedaling. Look at it, i'm asking if 435 people knew about this, then why weren't they outraged prior to the leak? Why were inquiries done? Why? B/c it's doubtful that a fraction of Congress knew about it.

Next time i'll use emoticons to convey tone. :ohno: :mrgreen: :kisswink: :tothehand: :suspicious: :twisted: :wall: :+1: :wtf: :popcorn: :flash: :beer2: :ban:
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by Grizalltheway »

Ibanez wrote:
Grizalltheway wrote: :rofl:

Proper channels?

"Hey boss, I really don't like these programs. I think it's wrong to spy on our own citizens like this"
"Okay, pack up your stuff and be out by the end of the day. And if you ever say anything about this to anyone, your ass is toast."
No, it goes to the Inspector General. If he went to his employer and told him what he found, they would've at least followed up. Then he and the company should have gone to the OIG. FWIW, I've seen 3 cases of people "blow the whistle" in the 8 yrs I've been in the defense industry. It's been for things like misappropriation of funds, fraud and one intelligence leak. All 3 are still gainfully employed and never prosecuted. :coffee:
But they wouldn't have made the general public aware of it, would they? Whether you approve of his actions or not, that was his stated intention in doing this.
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by Ibanez »

Grizalltheway wrote:
Ibanez wrote: No, it goes to the Inspector General. If he went to his employer and told him what he found, they would've at least followed up. Then he and the company should have gone to the OIG. FWIW, I've seen 3 cases of people "blow the whistle" in the 8 yrs I've been in the defense industry. It's been for things like misappropriation of funds, fraud and one intelligence leak. All 3 are still gainfully employed and never prosecuted. :coffee:
But they wouldn't have made the general public aware of it, would they? Whether you approve of his actions or not, that was his stated intention in doing this.
I get his intentions but there are better ways to do it. And in doing it the way he did, and as an employee if BAH, he's brought unnecessary and unfavorable attention to the firm.
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote: I see no "skepticism" or sarcasm here, Mark. You're backpedaling.
:roll:
No backpedaling. Look at it, i'm asking if 435 people knew about this, then why weren't they outraged prior to the leak? Why were inquiries done? Why? B/c it's doubtful that a fraction of Congress knew about it.

Next time i'll use emoticons to convey tone. :ohno: :mrgreen: :kisswink: :tothehand: :suspicious: :twisted: :wall: :+1: :wtf: :popcorn: :flash: :beer2: :ban:
Sorry, don't see it. What I DO see is you implying that BECAUSE every congressman had been allegedly briefed on this, that Paul's move is purely political.
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote:
Grizalltheway wrote:
But they wouldn't have made the general public aware of it, would they? Whether you approve of his actions or not, that was his stated intention in doing this.
I get his intentions but there are better ways to do it. And in doing it the way he did, and as an employee if BAH, he's brought unnecessary and unfavorable attention to the firm.
If he had done this through "proper channels", he would have been disappeared. No doubt about it. Hell, he STILL might. :shock:
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by expandspanos »

Ibanez wrote: Obama continued (extended) and expanded the surveillance. But c'mon, we knew they were doing it during Bush. Did you really believe that they stopped in 2007(2008?)
Isn't it funny how the faces and parties "change" yet the general totalitarian tip-toe never ends?

The wars didn't end, just changed, the surveillance state didn't end.. Obama never got rid of Gitmo like he said he would, our troops are still in the middle east.

Both parties are just two wings of the same bird- it doesn't matter who you vote in, be they republican or democrat, they are the same party, always in control.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPsz5GnrFo8[/youtube]

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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by BDKJMU »

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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by Grizalltheway »

Ibanez wrote:
Grizalltheway wrote:
But they wouldn't have made the general public aware of it, would they? Whether you approve of his actions or not, that was his stated intention in doing this.
I get his intentions but there are better ways to do it. And in doing it the way he did, and as an employee if BAH, he's brought unnecessary and unfavorable attention to the firm.
Well "the firm" has clearly profited from these practices, so forgive me if I have a hard time feeling badly for it. :coffee: :coffee:
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by BDKJMU »

Grizalltheway wrote:
Ibanez wrote: I get his intentions but there are better ways to do it. And in doing it the way he did, and as an employee if BAH, he's brought unnecessary and unfavorable attention to the firm.
Well "the firm" has clearly profited from these practices, so forgive me if I have a hard time feeling badly for it. :coffee: :coffee:
Yep.

Leaker’s Employer Is Paid to Maintain Government Secrets
By BINYAMIN APPELBAUM and ERIC LIPTON
Published: June 9, 2013

WASHINGTON — Edward J. Snowden’s employer, Booz Allen Hamilton, has become one of the largest and most profitable corporations in the United States almost exclusively by serving a single client: the government of the United States.

Over the last decade, much of the company’s growth has come from selling expertise, technology and manpower to the National Security Agency and other federal intelligence agencies. Booz Allen earned $1.3 billion, 23 percent of the company’s total revenue, from intelligence work during its most recent fiscal year.

The government has sharply increased spending on high-tech intelligence gathering since 2001, and both the Bush and Obama administrations have chosen to rely on private contractors like Booz Allen for much of the resulting work.

Thousands of people formerly employed by the government, and still approved to deal with classified information, now do essentially the same work for private companies. Mr. Snowden, who revealed on Sunday that he provided the recent leak of national security documents, is among them.

As evidence of the company’s close relationship with government, the Obama administration’s chief intelligence official, James R. Clapper Jr., is a former Booz Allen executive. The official who held that post in the Bush administration, John M. McConnell, now works for Booz Allen.

“The national security apparatus has been more and more privatized and turned over to contractors,” said Danielle Brian, the executive director of the Project on Government Oversight, a nonprofit group that studies federal government contracting. “This is something the public is largely unaware of, how more than a million private contractors are cleared to handle highly sensitive matters.”

It has gone so far, Ms. Brian said, that even the process of granting security clearances is often handled by contractors, allowing companies to grant government security clearances to private sector employees.

Companies like Booz Allen, Lockheed Martin and the Computer Sciences Corporation also engage directly in gathering information and providing analysis and advice to government officials. Booz Allen employees work inside the facilities at the N.S.A., among the most secretive of the intelligence agencies. The company also has several office buildings near the agency’s headquarters in Fort Meade, Md.

The company employs about 25,000 people, almost half of whom hold top secret security clearances, providing “access to information that would cause ‘exceptionally grave damage’ to national security if disclosed to the public,” according to a company securities filing.

In January, Booz Allen announced that it was starting work on a new contract worth perhaps as much as $5.6 billion over five years to provide intelligence analysis services to the Defense Department. Under the deal, Booz Allen employees are being assigned to help military and national security policy makers, the company said.

Representative Peter T. King, a New York Republican and former chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, said he had no reason to believe that a private contractor was more likely to become a source to reporters than a government official, because both need a security clearance before they can handle top secret information.

“Security is so tight and procedures so strictly enforced, this is really a surprise,” he said of the leaks by Mr. Snowden. “This will have to be fully investigated, inside and out, to find out what happened here. Were there warning signs? Were there issues in his background?”

Stewart A. Baker, who served as general counsel at the N.S.A. in the 1990s and more recently as a top official at the Department of Homeland Security, said he worried that the reliance on outside contractors might, in some ways at least, make the government more vulnerable to leaks.

“Inside the government, there are structures designed to make sure that people understand that they can raise concerns about the lawfulness of particular activities in a variety of established channels,” Mr. Baker said. “You can go to the inspector general or to the Intelligence Committees, and you don’t have to pierce the veil of secrecy to get high-level attention to your concerns without exposing national secrets. It is a little less obvious to employees at a contractor.”

Booz Allen, which notes in securities filings that its business could be damaged by leaks, acknowledged in a statement that Mr. Snowden had been an employee.

The company, based in Virginia, is primarily a technology contractor. It reported revenues of $5.76 billion for the fiscal year ended in March and was No. 436 on Fortune’s list of the 500 largest public companies. The government provided 98 percent of that revenue, the company said....." (continues)
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/10/us/bo ... ml?hp&_r=1&" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by 93henfan »

expandspanos wrote:
Ibanez wrote: Obama continued (extended) and expanded the surveillance. But c'mon, we knew they were doing it during Bush. Did you really believe that they stopped in 2007(2008?)
Isn't it funny how the faces and parties "change" yet the general totalitarian tip-toe never ends?

The wars didn't end, just changed, the surveillance state didn't end.. Obama never got rid of Gitmo like he said he would, our troops are still in the middle east.

Both parties are just two wings of the same bird- it doesn't matter who you vote in, be they republican or democrat, they are the same party, always in control.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPsz5GnrFo8[/youtube]

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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Ibanez wrote: I get his intentions but there are better ways to do it. And in doing it the way he did, and as an employee if BAH, he's brought unnecessary and unfavorable attention to the firm.
If he had done this through "proper channels", he would have been disappeared. No doubt about it. Hell, he STILL might. :shock:
Oy vey.


In case you're too dumb to tell, there is sarcasm there.
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by Ibanez »

Grizalltheway wrote:
Ibanez wrote: I get his intentions but there are better ways to do it. And in doing it the way he did, and as an employee if BAH, he's brought unnecessary and unfavorable attention to the firm.
Well "the firm" has clearly profited from these practices, so forgive me if I have a hard time feeling badly for it. :coffee: :coffee:
This company isn't the problem. It's the coward in Hong King.
Last edited by Ibanez on Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by Ibanez »

BDKJMU wrote:
Grizalltheway wrote:
Well "the firm" has clearly profited from these practices, so forgive me if I have a hard time feeling badly for it. :coffee: :coffee:
Yep.

Leaker’s Employer Is Paid to Maintain Government Secrets
By BINYAMIN APPELBAUM and ERIC LIPTON
Published: June 9, 2013

WASHINGTON — Edward J. Snowden’s employer, Booz Allen Hamilton, has become one of the largest and most profitable corporations in the United States almost exclusively by serving a single client: the government of the United States.

Over the last decade, much of the company’s growth has come from selling expertise, technology and manpower to the National Security Agency and other federal intelligence agencies. Booz Allen earned $1.3 billion, 23 percent of the company’s total revenue, from intelligence work during its most recent fiscal year.

The government has sharply increased spending on high-tech intelligence gathering since 2001, and both the Bush and Obama administrations have chosen to rely on private contractors like Booz Allen for much of the resulting work.

Thousands of people formerly employed by the government, and still approved to deal with classified information, now do essentially the same work for private companies. Mr. Snowden, who revealed on Sunday that he provided the recent leak of national security documents, is among them.

As evidence of the company’s close relationship with government, the Obama administration’s chief intelligence official, James R. Clapper Jr., is a former Booz Allen executive. The official who held that post in the Bush administration, John M. McConnell, now works for Booz Allen.

“The national security apparatus has been more and more privatized and turned over to contractors,” said Danielle Brian, the executive director of the Project on Government Oversight, a nonprofit group that studies federal government contracting. “This is something the public is largely unaware of, how more than a million private contractors are cleared to handle highly sensitive matters.”

It has gone so far, Ms. Brian said, that even the process of granting security clearances is often handled by contractors, allowing companies to grant government security clearances to private sector employees.

Companies like Booz Allen, Lockheed Martin and the Computer Sciences Corporation also engage directly in gathering information and providing analysis and advice to government officials. Booz Allen employees work inside the facilities at the N.S.A., among the most secretive of the intelligence agencies. The company also has several office buildings near the agency’s headquarters in Fort Meade, Md.

The company employs about 25,000 people, almost half of whom hold top secret security clearances, providing “access to information that would cause ‘exceptionally grave damage’ to national security if disclosed to the public,” according to a company securities filing.

In January, Booz Allen announced that it was starting work on a new contract worth perhaps as much as $5.6 billion over five years to provide intelligence analysis services to the Defense Department. Under the deal, Booz Allen employees are being assigned to help military and national security policy makers, the company said.

Representative Peter T. King, a New York Republican and former chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, said he had no reason to believe that a private contractor was more likely to become a source to reporters than a government official, because both need a security clearance before they can handle top secret information.

“Security is so tight and procedures so strictly enforced, this is really a surprise,” he said of the leaks by Mr. Snowden. “This will have to be fully investigated, inside and out, to find out what happened here. Were there warning signs? Were there issues in his background?”

Stewart A. Baker, who served as general counsel at the N.S.A. in the 1990s and more recently as a top official at the Department of Homeland Security, said he worried that the reliance on outside contractors might, in some ways at least, make the government more vulnerable to leaks.

“Inside the government, there are structures designed to make sure that people understand that they can raise concerns about the lawfulness of particular activities in a variety of established channels,” Mr. Baker said. “You can go to the inspector general or to the Intelligence Committees, and you don’t have to pierce the veil of secrecy to get high-level attention to your concerns without exposing national secrets. It is a little less obvious to employees at a contractor.”

Booz Allen, which notes in securities filings that its business could be damaged by leaks, acknowledged in a statement that Mr. Snowden had been an employee.

The company, based in Virginia, is primarily a technology contractor. It reported revenues of $5.76 billion for the fiscal year ended in March and was No. 436 on Fortune’s list of the 500 largest public companies. The government provided 98 percent of that revenue, the company said....." (continues)
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/10/us/bo ... ml?hp&_r=1&" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Why are you bitching? A lot has to get done and its either hire a contractor or have the Govt hire someone. What is your choice?
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by Ibanez »

The information he gave is alarming and we should know about it. My qualm is in the manner he did it. Whistleblower law doesn't state that you take the info to a foreign press agency. I understand his fear of prosecution but there are better ways. Give it to the IG. get in front of a Congressman. That's my opinion.
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by kalm »

Ibanez wrote:The information he gave is alarming and we should know about it. My qualm is in the manner he did it. Whistleblower law doesn't state that you take the info to a foreign press agency. I understand his fear of prosecution but there are better ways. Give it to the IG. get in front of a Congressman. That's my opinion.
But you'd still have to have access to these through certain channels to get their ear. I'm guessing it's not that simple.
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by houndawg »

DSUrocks07 wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:Edward Snowden: I mistakenly believed in Obama’s promises
http://washingtonexaminer.com/edward-sn ... le/2531439" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well, that makes me question his intelligence right there.
At least he's willing to admit his mistake, unlike those who are hellbent on going down with the ship.
Wake up, peckerwood. The left is calling for his head, unlike the deafening silence from the right as the Patriot Act was forced on us.

Stop paying Congress and the President immediately.
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by houndawg »

BDKJMU wrote:
Ibanez wrote: :ohno: :ohno:

This level of eavesdropping and surveillance isn't new. This is an extension of the warrant less wiretapping and surveillance that Bush authorized. You don't have the balls to admit it. Obama has expanded the same domestic spying techniques that Bush used post 9/11.

Did you not see my skepticism in saying, "if everyone congressman had been briefed on these programs...?" I was listening to his speech on ACA when he was asked this question and immediately called it as "BS."
Expansion.

It may not be new, but it was expanded under Obama, neither you nor I nor anyone else on this board (unless someone here has a TS clearance and works/contracts for the CIA or NSA) here knew about it. "It" being PRISM & the internet & phone companies being tapped.
Now that it isn't your guy isn't the one doing it, its a terrible thing. :coffee:


Stupid conk fvck. :coffee:
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by AZGrizFan »

houndawg wrote: Now that it isn't your guy isn't the one doing it, its a terrible thing. :coffee:


Stupid conk fvck. :coffee:
Thanks for the input, D1B. :lol: :lol:
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Re: NSA Whistle Blower Goes Public

Post by Ibanez »

kalm wrote:
Ibanez wrote:The information he gave is alarming and we should know about it. My qualm is in the manner he did it. Whistleblower law doesn't state that you take the info to a foreign press agency. I understand his fear of prosecution but there are better ways. Give it to the IG. get in front of a Congressman. That's my opinion.
But you'd still have to have access to these through certain channels to get their ear. I'm guessing it's not that simple.
Anyone can call the OIG. It's so easy a caveman can do it.
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