Have to admit, right-wing was kinda correct re: Benghazi

[houndawg]

It sounds from the media like there isn't any "if" about it. How do we know that it wasn't a cock up on the military readiness end? How did we know our people weren't bait in a trap and we weren't dropping troops into another "blackhawk down" scenario?

Because if those scenarios were in fact true, this administration (or any other administration for that matter) would be all over themselves getting that message out, instead of obfuscating through Jay Carney and cashiering DoS employees who were not in the decision making food chain. You know this is true.


Sent from the center of the universe.

I'm a peasant on a farm, in the middle of nowhere, politically speaking; I know nothing of the kind. Neither do you or you wouldn't still be saying "if". One of the lessons that dubya drove home is to not rush to credit malice for stupidity's accomplishments. How do we know that the cavalry would have arrived in time?

[Baldy]

How did we know our people weren't bait in a trap and we weren't dropping troops into another "blackhawk down" scenario?

If we're going to get all worked up over losing a few diplomats [soldiers, military personnel, SEALS, etc.] who knew the risks maybe we should just stay home and knit.

[CID1990]

Because if those scenarios were in fact true, this administration (or any other administration for that matter) would be all over themselves getting that message out, instead of obfuscating through Jay Carney and cashiering DoS employees who were not in the decision making food chain. You know this is true.


Sent from the center of the universe.

I'm a peasant on a farm, in the middle of nowhere, politically speaking; I know nothing of the kind. Neither do you or you wouldn't still be saying "if". One of the lessons that dubya drove home is to not rush to credit malice for stupidity's accomplishments. How do we know that the cavalry would have arrived in time?

I am saying "if" because nobody yet knows where the stand down orders came from. We do not know if they came from the top, the cabinet level, or from a proxy.

But you aren't paying attention- Jay Carney used precisely the same excuse that we didn't have enough time a few weeks ago. They have backed off it when it was correctly pointed out that on the evening of the attack nobody could have known how long the attack was going to last. There are a lot of government-issue items but crystal balls are not part of the kit.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[Bronco]

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Interesting to read the thread after the attack originally happened.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=32051&hilit=ambassador" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bronco]

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WH Holds Secret Private Meeting On Benghazi With Select Media Prior To Benghazi Press Briefing Yesterday

If there’s one thing you want to do when accusations are flying about an attempted cover up and a disinterested, collusive media, it’s holding an off-the-record briefing.

Time for the team to huddle.

The White House held an off-the-record briefing with reporters on Friday afternoon to discuss recent revelations about the Benghazi investigation, sources familiar with the meeting tell POLITICO.

[houndawg]

I'm a peasant on a farm, in the middle of nowhere, politically speaking; I know nothing of the kind. Neither do you or you wouldn't still be saying "if". One of the lessons that dubya drove home is to not rush to credit malice for stupidity's accomplishments. How do we know that the cavalry would have arrived in time?

I am saying "if" because nobody yet knows where the stand down orders came from. We do not know if they came from the top, the cabinet level, or from a proxy.

But you aren't paying attention- Jay Carney used precisely the same excuse that we didn't have enough time a few weeks ago. They have backed off it when it was correctly pointed out that on the evening of the attack nobody could have known how long the attack was going to last. There are a lot of government-issue items but crystal balls are not part of the kit.


Sent from the center of the universe.

You're right, I haven't been following this; here's what I don't get - why it would be politically expedient to abandon these people. It isn't like everybody didn't know we had some presence there, rescuing a diplomat, or trying to, wouldn't have hurt the administration politically.

[CID1990]

I am saying "if" because nobody yet knows where the stand down orders came from. We do not know if they came from the top, the cabinet level, or from a proxy.

But you aren't paying attention- Jay Carney used precisely the same excuse that we didn't have enough time a few weeks ago. They have backed off it when it was correctly pointed out that on the evening of the attack nobody could have known how long the attack was going to last. There are a lot of government-issue items but crystal balls are not part of the kit.


Sent from the center of the universe.

You're right, I haven't been following this; here's what I don't get - why it would be politically expedient to abandon these people. It isn't like everybody didn't know we had some presence there, rescuing a diplomat, or trying to, wouldn't have hurt the administration politically.

Sending in troops or air support to rescue Americans who are in the middle of a mess you created 8 weeks before an election where the cornerstones of your foreign policy campaign message are that Al Qaeda is on the run and the Libyan adventure was a well thought out, successful adventure in armed interventionism? Thus drawing loads of attention to what the real ground truth in Libya is... fighting the very people you armed just months before?

No. You sit tight and hope the people on the ground can sort it out and get themselves out of there, thus avoiding a broader, more attention getting incident.

The problem here is that they hoped that throwing a few unwilling civil servants under the bus after the ARB would calm things down. They have miscalculated (because people who arent guilty usually object to being scapegoated) and somebody further up the food chain is going to have to voluntarily throw themselves on their sword to protect whoever told the military not to go. We'll see how far the political loyalty runs between the two camps shortly, I suspect.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[CitadelGrad]

I smell Valerie Jarrett. It's a noxious odor.

[Grizo406]

I smell Valerie Jarrett. It's a noxious odor.

No shit on that, CG!!!

[houndawg]

You're right, I haven't been following this; here's what I don't get - why it would be politically expedient to abandon these people. It isn't like everybody didn't know we had some presence there, rescuing a diplomat, or trying to, wouldn't have hurt the administration politically.

Sending in troops or air support to rescue Americans who are in the middle of a mess you created 8 weeks before an election where the cornerstones of your foreign policy campaign message are that Al Qaeda is on the run and the Libyan adventure was a well thought out, successful adventure in armed interventionism? Thus drawing loads of attention to what the real ground truth in Libya is... fighting the very people you armed just months before?

No. You sit tight and hope the people on the ground can sort it out and get themselves out of there, thus avoiding a broader, more attention getting incident.

The problem here is that they hoped that throwing a few unwilling civil servants under the bus after the ARB would calm things down. They have miscalculated (because people who arent guilty usually object to being scapegoated) and somebody further up the food chain is going to have to voluntarily throw themselves on their sword to protect whoever told the military not to go. We'll see how far the political loyalty runs between the two camps shortly, I suspect.


Sent from the center of the universe.

I don't know, fighting those we recently armed is hardly a shocking new development in US foreign policy. And at such a crucial time in the election cycle how is such a big decision handled by deciding to hope for the best when your information says different and the consequences of losing your employees is a broader, more attention getting incident? Obviously it is already known who gave the stand down order.

[CID1990]

Sending in troops or air support to rescue Americans who are in the middle of a mess you created 8 weeks before an election where the cornerstones of your foreign policy campaign message are that Al Qaeda is on the run and the Libyan adventure was a well thought out, successful adventure in armed interventionism? Thus drawing loads of attention to what the real ground truth in Libya is... fighting the very people you armed just months before?

No. You sit tight and hope the people on the ground can sort it out and get themselves out of there, thus avoiding a broader, more attention getting incident.

The problem here is that they hoped that throwing a few unwilling civil servants under the bus after the ARB would calm things down. They have miscalculated (because people who arent guilty usually object to being scapegoated) and somebody further up the food chain is going to have to voluntarily throw themselves on their sword to protect whoever told the military not to go. We'll see how far the political loyalty runs between the two camps shortly, I suspect.


Sent from the center of the universe.

I don't know, fighting those we recently armed is hardly a shocking new development in US foreign policy. And at such a crucial time in the election cycle how is such a big decision handled by deciding to hope for the best when your information says different and the consequences of losing your employees is a broader, more attention getting incident? Obviously it is already known who gave the stand down order.

Arming the mujaheddin in Afghanistan was largely done in secret. It wasn't flouted like a banner like Libya, and it does stand to be damaging.

When decision time came for a rescue, the Ambassador was already dead. So the attention was already there. The decision not to secure the site and/or get some air cover overhead ultimately cost more lives and that's the issue.

Look, I don't pretend to be in the heads of some of these people. Personally I would move heaven and earth to get help in there, and I usually work from the assumption that pretty much everyone else would, too. It didn't happen in this case, and right now the actions of that day and night are inexplicable, and instead of a viable explanation, the public has heard nothing but obfuscation. That alone should not only be insulting to the public, it should be investigated. Usually when political entities squirm like this it is because there is something they don't want you to know.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[CID1990]

This guy sums things up pretty well:

http://freebeacon.com/from-benghazi-to-boston/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Once you are stuck in "it's not broader Islamic terrorism" mode, it is hard to change gears.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[Bronco]

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Hillary demanded to know what ‘Bush Knew’ and when he knew it

Hillary: “The American people need to get the facts”

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqYEP1Ys5Ug[/youtube]