Call to Evolutionists

[SeattleGriz]

First off, been drinking and I have learned from my past posts, that I never deliver on what my mouth promises.

Secondly. Can any of the so called Darwinist pussies on this board please tell me what Dr Richard Lenski's experiments have provided in the way of verification of Evolution?

[Skjellyfetti]

Good read:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lenski_affair" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SeattleGriz]

Good read:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lenski_affair" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks man. Wasn't really what I was looking for. Lenski takes the bacteria E coli and has allowed them to divide over 50K times in attempt to show evolution in the lab.

Of course I am biased, but his attempts have been utterly dismal. Looking for those with more education to tell me why I am wrong.

Good dig post though!

[SeattleGriz]

C'mon biobengal. Help out here.

[CID1990]

Go make me a sandwich you fvcking Neanderthal.

Oh wait never mind.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[Skjellyfetti]

Of course I am biased, but his attempts have been utterly dismal.

And... why do you think his attempts have been utterly dismal?

[SeattleGriz]

Of course I am biased, but his attempts have been utterly dismal.

And... why do you think his attempts have been utterly dismal?

Don't get me wrong, he does great work, but after greater than 50,000 generations, the E Coli has remained the same. If it had done anything of significance, it would have been all over the news. As it is, very few people even know about the project.

[Skjellyfetti]

Don't get me wrong, he does great work, but after greater than 50,000 generations, the E Coli has remained the same. If it had done anything of significance, it would have been all over the news. As it is, very few people even know about the project.

Why do you think the E coli in his project has remained the same? The whole point is that it hasn't.

[Wedgebuster]

See recent reports of Bird Flu morphing in China.

[Pwns]

I don't see what's so groundbreaking about the experiment. It's really along the same line of logic that bacteria gaining antibiotic resistance is proof that nucleated cells spontaneously evolving from bacteria and multicellular organisms spontaneously evolving from single-celled life. Or that organisms can over time change their chromosome or gene numbers.

BTW, I'm also waiting for someone to produce an RNA molecule from inorganic substances. Not holding my breath on that one.

[Skjellyfetti]

I don't see what's so groundbreaking about the experiment. It's really along the same line of logic that bacteria gaining antibiotic resistance is proof that nucleated cells spontaneously evolving from bacteria and multicellular organisms spontaneously evolving from single-celled life. Or that organisms can over time change their chromosome or gene numbers.

I agree.

Just funny to see ID'ers resist it... based on nothing.

BTW, I'm also waiting for someone to produce an RNA molecule from inorganic substances. Not holding my breath on that one.

Here we show that activated pyrimidine ribonucleotides can be formed in a short sequence that bypasses free ribose and the nucleobases, and instead proceeds through arabinose amino-oxazoline and anhydronucleoside intermediates. The starting materials for the synthesis—cyanamide, cyanoacetylene, glycolaldehyde, glyceraldehyde and inorganic phosphate—are plausible prebiotic feedstock molecules12, 13, 14, 15, and the conditions of the synthesis are consistent with potential early-Earth geochemical models. Although inorganic phosphate is only incorporated into the nucleotides at a late stage of the sequence, its presence from the start is essential as it controls three reactions in the earlier stages by acting as a general acid/base catalyst, a nucleophilic catalyst, a pH buffer and a chemical buffer. For prebiotic reaction sequences, our results highlight the importance of working with mixed chemical systems in which reactants for a particular reaction step can also control other steps.

Our findings suggest that the prebiotic synthesis of activated pyrimidine nucleotides should be viewed as predisposed. This predisposition would have allowed the synthesis to operate on the early Earth under geochemical conditions suitable for the assembly sequence.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 08013.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SeattleGriz]

I don't see what's so groundbreaking about the experiment. It's really along the same line of logic that bacteria gaining antibiotic resistance is proof that nucleated cells spontaneously evolving from bacteria and multicellular organisms spontaneously evolving from single-celled life. Or that organisms can over time change their chromosome or gene numbers.

I agree.

Just funny to see ID'ers resist it... based on nothing.

Actually, the top guys of ID actually believe in evolution. They just don't believe it is all due to random mutations and natural selection. You might be thinking of Creationists.

[SeattleGriz]

Don't get me wrong, he does great work, but after greater than 50,000 generations, the E Coli has remained the same. If it had done anything of significance, it would have been all over the news. As it is, very few people even know about the project.

Why do you think the E coli in his project has remained the same? The whole point is that it hasn't.

The hopes of this experiment was to have some laboratory proof of evolution. It hasn't produced that. Like I stated, if it had, it would have been trumpeted from the rooftops.

This is something I have been trying to get people to understand. We aren't close to being able to prove by experiments that man, and all life on this planet started from primordial ooze.

I am fine and always have been with evolution. I just simply want those who call themselves to be scientists to quite moving the goalposts. I also realize that is not the way science works today. You don't produce findings that fit your research and you lose the money.

People should be happy that ID is trying to challenge evolution. If they are wrong, it only makes it that much stronger.

Thanks for playing Skjelly. I know many have given up on this topic.

[SeattleGriz]

See recent reports of Bird Flu morphing in China.

Is a virus a living thing?

[Skjellyfetti]

The hopes of this experiment was to have some laboratory proof of evolution. It hasn't produced that.

And, what is your argument that it hasn't?

Most recently (2012) his team has identified and sequenced the mutations leading to the new phenotype (consumption of citrate).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22992527" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SeattleGriz]

The hopes of this experiment was to have some laboratory proof of evolution. It hasn't produced that.

And, what is your argument that it hasn't?

Most recently (2012) his team has identified and sequenced the mutations leading to the new phenotype (consumption of citrate).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22992527" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It hasn't, because this paper didn't bring anything that wasn't already known to the equation.

It's interesting that you think ID'ers are crazy, but when this finding originally came out, an ID'er largely identified how this could happen. It was only recently that they were able to confirm he was correct.

Like I said, I don't doubt evolution, just quit pounding a square peg in a circular hole.

[Skjellyfetti]

an ID'er largely identified how this could happen.

I hope this is someone beside Andrew Schlafly....

It was only recently that they were able to confirm he was correct.

Who was able to confirm who was correct?

[biobengal]

Why do you think the E coli in his project has remained the same? The whole point is that it hasn't.

The hopes of this experiment was to have some laboratory proof of evolution. It hasn't produced that. Like I stated, if it had, it would have been trumpeted from the rooftops.

This is something I have been trying to get people to understand. We aren't close to being able to prove by experiments that man, and all life on this planet started from primordial ooze.

Ooze sounds icky... I prefer soup.

[SeattleGriz]

an ID'er largely identified how this could happen.

I hope this is someone beside Andrew Schlafly....

It was only recently that they were able to confirm he was correct.

Who was able to confirm who was correct?

Lenski's lab. They had to see the genetic sequence of what happened and when they did, the ID guy was largely confirmed as being correct.

I wish biobungle and JMUDJ would chime in, for they could help tell me if I am full of crap or correct. Until then, I have to go with the PhD's who believe in ID.

Once again, thanks for playing man!

[SeattleGriz]

The hopes of this experiment was to have some laboratory proof of evolution. It hasn't produced that. Like I stated, if it had, it would have been trumpeted from the rooftops.

This is something I have been trying to get people to understand. We aren't close to being able to prove by experiments that man, and all life on this planet started from primordial ooze.

Ooze sounds icky... I prefer soup.

Bengal. Glad you joined. Need you to keep me honest. I may be a pain, but I want to be a truthful pain.

[YoUDeeMan]

See recent reports of Bird Flu morphing in China.

Is a virus a living thing?

Maybe you are more familiar with the walking dead viruses?

[CID1990]

Evolution threads are reliably stupid.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[SeattleGriz]

Evolution threads are reliably stupid.


Sent from the center of the universe.

Why are they stupid?

[CID1990]

Evolution threads are reliably stupid.


Sent from the center of the universe.

Why are they stupid?

Because they are based in personal belief, and nobody is going to change minds. Believe in what you believe. Don't foist it on everybody else. If you're right, then you'll have a wonderfully unpopulated heaven to enjoy without all the heathens. If you're wrong, well, you'll be dead and it won't matter.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[SeattleGriz]

Why are they stupid?

Because they are based in personal belief, and nobody is going to change minds. Believe in what you believe. Don't foist it on everybody else. If you're right, then you'll have a wonderfully unpopulated heaven to enjoy without all the heathens. If you're wrong, well, you'll be dead and it won't matter.


Sent from the center of the universe.

I am asking for scientific honesty. Have I seen that? I am in a win win situation, so it is VERY interesting to see the defense.