Kudos to North Dakota

[89Hen]

Tell me the exact day and time when it becomes viable. If you can't, they you have no ground on which to stand.

Earliest a baby has ever been delivered is 21 weeks 6 days. Even then it's only "viable" with extensive and expensive medical equipment and procedures. Y'all ok with publicly funding all that for uninsured mothers?

But, this is all a bit of a red herring. The VAST majority of abortions occur in the first trimester, and I would have no problem with legislation that limited abortion to the first trimester, except in exceptional cases (and, most late term abortions are in exceptional cases anyway).

The first trimester is up to the 13th week. The fetus is in no way viable in the 13th week.

That's a long answer for what could have been: "I can't."

[89Hen]

I'm serious... I can't believe how ignorant some of you are. Do you give a shit if their neighbor beats their kids?

Nice argument.




Here is something that is down to your level.


You don't have any sperm. You get sperm from someone else, and he puts the sperm together with your wife's egg, it works, so he implants it. The next day it is expelled.

Do you take charges against the doctor because it was his fault he killed a fetus?...all 12 cells of it?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7w64fbqYQY[/youtube]

[grizzaholic]

Nice argument.




Here is something that is down to your level.


You don't have any sperm. You get sperm from someone else, and he puts the sperm together with your wife's egg, it works, so he implants it. The next day it is expelled.

Do you take charges against the doctor because it was his fault he killed a fetus?...all 12 cells of it?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7w64fbqYQY[/youtube]

That is exactly your argument. The minute a sperm hits an egg, killing it is a crime.

[89Hen]

That is exactly your argument. The minute a sperm hits an egg, killing it is a crime.

Where in your nice story did somebody kill it?

[grizzaholic]

That is exactly your argument. The minute a sperm hits an egg, killing it is a crime.

Where in your nice story did somebody kill it?

This is exactly why talking to people like you is impossible. You nit-pick every little detail if it isn't spelled out for ya.



Does your neighbor having an abortion infringe on your rights? Why does it bother you so?

[CAA Flagship]

Where in your nice story did somebody kill it?

This is exactly why talking to people like you is impossible. You nit-pick every little detail if it isn't spelled out for ya.



Does your neighbor having an abortion infringe on your rights? Why does it bother you so?

My neighbor has a race car that he works on occasionally in his garage.

[Gil Dobie]

This is exactly why talking to people like you is impossible. You nit-pick every little detail if it isn't spelled out for ya.



Does your neighbor having an abortion infringe on your rights? Why does it bother you so?

My neighbor has a race car that he works on occasionally in his garage.

My neighbor had chickens that infringed on my yard, now he has no chickens.

[89Hen]

Where in your nice story did somebody kill it?

This is exactly why talking to people like you is impossible. You nit-pick every little detail if it isn't spelled out for ya.



Does your neighbor having an abortion infringe on your rights? Why does it bother you so?

Nitpick? I think the difference between a spontaneous abortion and going to a clinic to get one is a pretty darn big point. Do you really think that's nitpicking?

To answer your question, no, my neighbor having an abortion does not infringe on my rights. Neither does them beating their kids. Neither does him raping his wife. Neither does him robbing a bank. Neither does him operating a ponzi scheme to defraud people of money. I guess we should just let him do what's right for himself.

[grizzaholic]

This is exactly why talking to people like you is impossible. You nit-pick every little detail if it isn't spelled out for ya.



Does your neighbor having an abortion infringe on your rights? Why does it bother you so?

Nitpick? I think the difference between a spontaneous abortion and going to a clinic to get one is a pretty darn big point. Do you really think that's nitpicking?

To answer your question, no, my neighbor having an abortion does not infringe on my rights. Neither does them beating their kids. Neither does him raping his wife. Neither does him robbing a bank. Neither does him operating a ponzi scheme to defraud people of money. I guess we should just let him do what's right for himself.

But abortions are legal, those are not. You are taking away her right to choose. If she is religious or thinks abortions are bad, she won't have one. If she wants to have one, let her. It is HER right, not yours to tell her what is best for her.

I live next to you, and you smoke. I think smoking should be illegal, and because I know what is best for YOU better than YOU do, I try to take away your right to smoke. Do you see the point?

Spoiler: show

I couldn't care less if you smoke. Just an example.

[GannonFan]

Nitpick? I think the difference between a spontaneous abortion and going to a clinic to get one is a pretty darn big point. Do you really think that's nitpicking?

To answer your question, no, my neighbor having an abortion does not infringe on my rights. Neither does them beating their kids. Neither does him raping his wife. Neither does him robbing a bank. Neither does him operating a ponzi scheme to defraud people of money. I guess we should just let him do what's right for himself.

But abortions are legal, those are not. You are taking away her right to choose.

Kind of a weak argument there - in some cultures even today, and certainly in the past, marital rape is legal. Beating your kids has been legal before as well. Using the criteria of what is or isn't legal today is just a snapshot in time and can and has changed over time. Heck, before Roe v Wade abortions were illlegal. Using your line of reasoning abortions before that ruling should have been not allowed because they were illegal.

[Skjellyfetti]

So, outlawing abortions would be akin to legalizing marital rape. I think I'm following you here.

[kalm]

Yes, a couple:

1) Referring to a fetus which is inside the womb as an "infant" is just semantics.

2) My "cute" point highlights the grey nature of this debate as either side could use it to defend their position.

3) But if the issue is indeed black and white, why don't we investigate and prosecute women who unknowingly abort or damage the fetus when they didn't know they were pregnant. I mean, there really should be no grace period here if it's a black and white issue and life begins at conception. Anytime a women has unprotected sex she should go in the next day, or perhaps the next hour and get tested to see if she's pregnant, right? Or, to be on the safe side she should abstain from any actions or consumptions which might injure the fetus - just to be on the safe side. Makes sense right? If she doesn't, we obviously need to investigate and if necessary, prosecute her.

Holy hyperbole Batman. Of course, that's to be expected; that's the way it usually goes in this debate. What next, rape or incest?

BTW, did I say fetus = "infant"?

Soft.

[SeattleGriz]

AKA

Pro-killing an infant

A fetus, particularly one before the 22nd week, is not a infant.

Gee whiz dude. My wife just had an ultrasound of our 8 week old "non-infant" and it already has a heartbeat, head and fully formed arms and legs.

Huh. I didn't know a guy without kids knew SO much about life.

[SeattleGriz]

As soon as the assholes that use abortion as a form of contraception admit it, the discussion will be much more fruitful, for that is EXACTLY what it is - contraception for the lazy fuckers.

No pun intended.

[GannonFan]

As soon as the assholes that use abortion as a form of contraception admit it, the discussion will be much more fruitful, for that is EXACTLY what it is - contraception for the lazy ****.

No pun intended.

Don't forget it's also for the dumb and stupid. Plenty of them can't figure out how to use birth control properly, despite the widespread availability of that and the wealth of education given on the subject. It makes sense, we have a hard enough time teaching a good portion of this population how to read, write, or do math. Figure they won't be any better at understanding how to avoid pregnancy and the data backs that up.

[Ibanez]

As soon as the assholes that use abortion as a form of contraception admit it, the discussion will be much more fruitful, for that is EXACTLY what it is - contraception for the lazy ****.

No pun intended.

Don't forget it's also for the dumb and stupid. Plenty of them can't figure out how to use birth control properly, despite the widespread availability of that and the wealth of education given on the subject. It makes sense, we have a hard enough time teaching a good portion of this population how to read, write, or do math. Figure they won't be any better at understanding how to avoid pregnancy and the data backs that up.

It's laziness. It's laziness with the parents to instruct thier children. Many parents fail to help their children with thier schoolwork and/or put no importance on it. Same thing goes with sexual education. My Catholic upbringing and school taught me to wait until I was married. My parents were realistic and taught me to use protection and be safe about it. The times I never used a condom were out of sheer laziness for going to the bathroom and getting one.

The lax attitude in the home makes children stupid and unsuccessful in the school. There are exceptions, but I believe this for the majority.

[grizzaholic]

As soon as the assholes that use abortion as a form of contraception admit it, the discussion will be much more fruitful, for that is EXACTLY what it is - contraception for the lazy fuckers.

No pun intended.

Do you think that everyone that has an abortion are serial abortionists? They just have one every other month, just to have em?

[D1B]

As soon as the assholes that use abortion as a form of contraception admit it, the discussion will be much more fruitful, for that is EXACTLY what it is - contraception for the lazy fuckers.

No pun intended.

You're a fucking idiot.

[Skjellyfetti]

Gee whiz dude. My wife just had an ultrasound of our 8 week old "non-infant" and it already has a heartbeat, head and fully formed arms and legs.

Grats. That's beautiful and y'all should be proud.

[JohnStOnge]

http://news.msn.com/politics/north-dako ... n-abortion

BISMARCK, N.D. — North Dakota lawmakers moved Friday to outlaw abortion in the state by passing a resolution defining life as starting at conception.

The measure, which has to be approved by voters, is one of a series of anti-abortion resolutions the Republican-controlled Legislature has passed this year despite critics' insistence that they are unconstitutional and violate the U.S. Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade ruling legalizing abortion until a fetus is considered viable, which is usually at 22 to 24 weeks.

The North Dakota House approved the measure 57-35 Friday, sending it to voters, likely in November 2014. The Senate approved it last month.

The bolded word is what amazes me that anyone could still be pro-abortion.

The whole "viability" thing is meaningless anyway. A total crock. Most of the unborn are viable from the moment of conception. To say that they are not "viable" because they cannot survive outside of the environment to which they are suited is stupid. You know you and I couldn't survive is someone stuck us 1000 feet under the surface of the ocean. We'd die immediately. Or if somebody zapped us into outer space. Immediately again. For that concept along with others the Roe vs. Wade decision is perhaps history's biggest example of why we should not assign the credibility we do to our Judiciary. Perhaps. There are other striking examples of intellectual dishonesty. But that one's right up there.

No way those guys (and now gals) should be allowed the influence they have on social policy.

[89Hen]

But abortions are legal, those are not. You are taking away her right to choose. If she is religious or thinks abortions are bad, she won't have one. If she wants to have one, let her. It is HER right, not yours to tell her what is best for her.

I live next to you, and you smoke. I think smoking should be illegal, and because I know what is best for YOU better than YOU do, I try to take away your right to smoke. Do you see the point?

The point is we are talking about whether it should be legal or if we have the right to say it should not be legal. There is no arguement to whether it is currently legal.

[89Hen]

Holy hyperbole Batman. Of course, that's to be expected; that's the way it usually goes in this debate. What next, rape or incest?

BTW, did I say fetus = "infant"?

Soft.

Soft what? Your #1 point was that somebody said fetus = infant. That's what is soft.

[89Hen]

The whole "viability" thing is meaningless anyway. A total crock. Most of the unborn are viable from the moment of conception. To say that they are not "viable" because they cannot survive outside of the environment to which they are suited is stupid. You know you and I couldn't survive is someone stuck us 1000 feet under the surface of the ocean. We'd die immediately. Or if somebody zapped us into outer space. Immediately again. For that concept along with others the Roe vs. Wade decision is perhaps history's biggest example of why we should not assign the credibility we do to our Judiciary. Perhaps. There are other striking examples of intellectual dishonesty. But that one's right up there.

No way those guys (and now gals) should be allowed the influence they have on social policy.

You don't have to go to the extreme of deep sea or space. Leave a newborn baby in a nice, comfortable crib with a warm blanket and maybe a bottle of formula next to it... how long will it live without somebody feeding it? A newborn is not viable on it's own.

[SeattleGriz]

As soon as the assholes that use abortion as a form of contraception admit it, the discussion will be much more fruitful, for that is EXACTLY what it is - contraception for the lazy fuckers.

No pun intended.

Do you think that everyone that has an abortion are serial abortionists? They just have one every other month, just to have em?

Not at all, but I do think a good majority of the abortions are due to people not using protection. If you don't want a kid, use protection. A $2 condom is a whole lot cheaper than having to pay for an abortion and not to mention the cycle it puts a woman through to be pregnant and then terminate. It isn't good for women.

Notice that I mentioned "discussion" in my original post. My point is that those that act all indignant over their right to an abortion keep trying to propagate the idea that it was all an accident when it was most likely sheer laziness.

All I am asking for is honesty.

[kalm]

Soft.

Soft what? Your #1 point was that somebody said fetus = infant. That's what is soft.

Semantics. Does life begin at conception? If so, the mother is liable for all of her actions from that moment on.