Joliet Diocese - catholic pedophile factory. Files Released

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Joliet Diocese - catholic pedophile factory. Files Released

Post by D1B »

Amazing. :ohno:

Breaking News
y Christy Gutowski, Stacy St. Clair and David Heinzmann, Chicago Tribune reporters

March 21, 2013

The Joliet Diocese readily admitted that David Rudofski was sexually abused during his first confession at St. Mary Catholic Church in Mokena. It offered him an in-person apology from the bishop and more than six times his annual salary in the hope of putting a quick, quiet end to yet another ugly incident involving a priest.

But Rudofski wanted more than money.

The south suburban electrician wanted the diocese to truly pay for its repeated and, oftentimes, willful mishandling of sexual abuse cases involving clergy — and he insisted on a currency far more precious to the church than money. He demanded that the diocese settle its debt by turning over the secret archives it maintained on abusive priests and making them available for public consumption. :clap:

"What was I supposed to do? Take the money and run?" Rudofski said. "How would that help anybody else? If people don't know how this was allowed to happen for decades, they can't prevent it from happening again."

The diocese, however, fought Rudofski's efforts for more than a year before agreeing to turn over the personnel files of 16 of the 34 priests with substantiated allegations against them. It also issued a news release adding his alleged abuser, the Rev. James Burnett, to its still-growing list of accused clergy. :ohno:

The files, which Rudofski's attorney shared with the Tribune after redacting the names of other victims, contain more than 7,000 records detailing how the diocese purposefully shielded priests, misled parishioners and left children unprotected for more than a half-century. They also raise new questions about whether the church has been forthcoming about the number of local priests involved in the scandal and the percentage of clergy confronted with credible claims. :coffee:

Though the Joliet Diocese's botched handling of pedophile priests has been well-documented in recent years, the records offer the most complete portrait of the ineptitude and indifference that greeted the allegations almost since the religious district's inception in 1948. The errors span more than six decades and involved three bishops, 91 places of worship and more than 100 victims.

Researchers and Roman Catholic Church officials have previously said that about 4 percent of priests nationally committed an act of sexual abuse against a minor between 1950 and 2002, with church officials claiming the rate of abusers within the priesthood is no different from that among other professions.

However, the files show that the Joliet Diocese — which includes parishes in DuPage, Ford, Grundy, Iroquois, Kankakee, Kendall and Will counties — had double or triple that percentage in the 1980s. In 1983, for example, more than 13 percent of priests serving in the diocese would later have credible abuse allegations leveled against them.

Reached at his home in New Lenox, retired Bishop Joseph Imesch, 81, said he didn't want to discuss details of the revelations in the documents.

"I'm not going to rehash all of this. I know what I did; I know what I should have done," he said, expressing frustration with the way news reports portrayed his conduct.

When a reporter informed him that a Tribune story was being prepared to report on the newly released documents, Imesch said, "Sure. Sex and the priests, let's blast it all over the place. Never let it go."

The records, some of which are stamped as being from the bishops' "secret archives," include letters, personnel files and administrative memos that the diocese has refused to release for years.

The documents show that two victims committed suicide and at least one other became a molester himself.

Victim advocates hailed the files' release for allowing the first comprehensive examination of the diocese's handling of sexual abuse cases. Though several Joliet cases were investigated by the media, the diocese did not face the kind of scrutiny found in Boston, Chicago or other major cities.

"In many ways, Joliet was far worse than others," said Barbara Blaine, president of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests. "It flew under the radar because of its size."

Most of the files reflect reports taken during the tenure of Imesch, who oversaw the diocese for 27 years and was in office when the churchwide scandal broke a decade ago. Imesch apologized in 2006 for any hurt caused by his words and decisions, after a deposition was unsealed in which he appeared unrepentant about sexual abuse allegations.

The records indicate that on at least two occasions, Chicago cardinals had intervened in cases and persuaded Imesch to respond accordingly.

The first instance occurred in 1993, when diocesan officials were dealing with the Rev. Larry Mullins, who eventually was accused by more than a dozen boys.

Documents show that Imesch and Auxiliary Bishop Roger Kaffer had a disagreement over whether Mullins should be returned to ministry after treatment for a sexual disorder. Kaffer argued that Mullins needed to be removed from ministry, according to the documents, but he said Imesch believed that the priest had been cured of any pedophilia and was ready to resume duties.

Copyright © 2013 Chicago Tribune Company, LLC
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Re: Joliet Diocese - catholic pedophile factory. Files Rele

Post by Cap'n Cat »

Wow. Hen and Joe better DOUBLE their collection plate droppings.

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Post by JoltinJoe »

While any case of abuse in any institution cannot be permitted or tolerated, a few points can be determined simply from the text of this article:

(1) The time span being referenced is six decades, and at least 54 years. During that period of time, 34 priests were credibly charged by about 100 victims. Over a period of 54 years, any institution which regularly and systematically operated programs for the benefit of children would likely have a comparable number of victims.

(2) The article distorts basic math processes when it tries to suggest that perhaps 12 or 13 percent of the priests in the diocese were pedophiles. The surest way to distort a percentage is to look for a Point of Reference where there are the greatest number "cases" -- here, priests who had already been credibly charged or would, in the future, be credibly charged -- and then figure that as a percentage of the number of non-cases -- innocent priests -- then serving at that Point of Reference. At some point in the 1980s (quite predictably, since that appears to be the mid-point of the 54-year time range), the greatest number of the guilty 34 were then in service (some of them older offenders, some of them new and perhaps not even charged yet). To accurately calculate the rate of offense, though, you have to calculate what percentage the guilty 34 represent over the number of priests who served over the entire 54-year period. The rate of less than 4% holds over that time period, since a diocese the size of Joliet no doubt had at least 850 different priests serving over that 54-year period. Again, this rate of abuse is actually lower than the abuse rate in society as a whole.

(3) News stories which make broad and sweeping characterizations of what 7000 documents represent, without once even quoting the documents, have in my experience (and I have previously demonstrated here) not fairly represented the content of the documents. You will recall how I totally dismantled the representations of a New York Times story by pinpointing citations to the documents -- the documents being deceptively characterized in the story. Remarkably, the Times had included a pdf link to the documents right next to its story. I guess it suspected that no one would actually look at the documents. (And within a few days, the Times began a rather inartful retreat from its original story.)

PS -- You continue to violate our truce. Then again, I have been too busy to care about you, especially given the overwhelmingly favorable news coverage the Church has been receiving lately. Must suck to be you. :lol:
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Re: Joliet Diocese - catholic pedophile factory. Files Rele

Post by UNI88 »

JoltinJoe wrote:The time span being referenced is six decades, and at least 54 years. During that period of time, 34 priests were credibly charged by about 100 victims. Over a period of 54 years, any institution which regularly and systematically operated programs for the benefit of children would likely have a comparable number of victims
Is 34 abusers and about 100 victims over 54 years really comparable to the "average" for similar institutions? Clenz, do you or the Better Half have any statistics from your studies on this? I'd like an independent third party to weigh in with some statistics. IMO that's 100 too many victims.
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Re: Joliet Diocese - catholic pedophile factory. Files Rele

Post by Cap'n Cat »

UNI88 wrote:
JoltinJoe wrote:The time span being referenced is six decades, and at least 54 years. During that period of time, 34 priests were credibly charged by about 100 victims. Over a period of 54 years, any institution which regularly and systematically operated programs for the benefit of children would likely have a comparable number of victims
Is 34 abusers and about 100 victims over 54 years really comparable to the "average" for similar institutions? Clenz, do you or the Better Half have any statistics from your studies on this? I'd like an independent third party to weigh in with some statistics. IMO that's 100 too many victims.
Conk or Donk, can't disagree. Shame, Joe......

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Post by D1B »

I'm familiar with numerous programs who serve thousands upon thousands of kids a day, and have never heard of a complaint.
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Post by D1B »

JoltinJoe wrote:While any case of abuse in any institution cannot be permitted or tolerated, a few points can be determined simply from the text of this article:

(1) The time span being referenced is six decades, and at least 54 years. During that period of time, 34 priests were credibly charged by about 100 victims. Over a period of 54 years, any institution which regularly and systematically operated programs for the benefit of children would likely have a comparable number of victims.

(2) The article distorts basic math processes when it tries to suggest that perhaps 12 or 13 percent of the priests in the diocese were pedophiles. The surest way to distort a percentage is to look for a Point of Reference where there are the greatest number "cases" -- here, priests who had already been credibly charged or would, in the future, be credibly charged -- and then figure that as a percentage of the number of non-cases -- innocent priests -- then serving at that Point of Reference. At some point in the 1980s (quite predictably, since that appears to be the mid-point of the 54-year time range), the greatest number of the guilty 34 were then in service (some of them older offenders, some of them new and perhaps not even charged yet). To accurately calculate the rate of offense, though, you have to calculate what percentage the guilty 34 represent over the number of priests who served over the entire 54-year period. The rate of less than 4% holds over that time period, since a diocese the size of Joliet no doubt had at least 850 different priests serving over that 54-year period. Again, this rate of abuse is actually lower than the abuse rate in society as a whole.

(3) News stories which make broad and sweeping characterizations of what 7000 documents represent, without once even quoting the documents, have in my experience (and I have previously demonstrated here) not fairly represented the content of the documents. You will recall how I totally dismantled the representations of a New York Times story by pinpointing citations to the documents -- the documents being deceptively characterized in the story. Remarkably, the Times had included a pdf link to the documents right next to its story. I guess it suspected that no one would actually look at the documents. (And within a few days, the Times began a rather inartful retreat from its original story.)

PS -- You continue to violate our truce. Then again, I have been too busy to care about you, especially given the overwhelmingly favorable news coverage the Church has been receiving lately. Must suck to be you. :lol:
The truce has do with personal attacks. When the church fucks up, which is daily, everyone is going to hear about it.

Oh, and shame on you, again. :ohno:
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Post by Ivytalk »

Cap'n Cat wrote:Wow. Hen and Joe better DOUBLE their collection plate droppings.

:shock:

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Re: Joliet Diocese - catholic pedophile factory. Files Rele

Post by clenz »

UNI88 wrote:
JoltinJoe wrote:The time span being referenced is six decades, and at least 54 years. During that period of time, 34 priests were credibly charged by about 100 victims. Over a period of 54 years, any institution which regularly and systematically operated programs for the benefit of children would likely have a comparable number of victims
Is 34 abusers and about 100 victims over 54 years really comparable to the "average" for similar institutions? Clenz, do you or the Better Half have any statistics from your studies on this? I'd like an independent third party to weigh in with some statistics. IMO that's 100 too many victims.
I'd have to do some digging into my past research, and could easily e-mail some old professors who do a lot of research in the sexual abuse field....but one that I do remember is from Big Brothers Big Sisters. The latest research I did on that shows that BBBSA deals with over 240,000 kids per year and face (on average) less than 10 accusations per year.

10 (on the high side) out of 240,000 is 1 child out of every 24,000.

How that translates to the catholic situation I'm not sure though
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Post by D1B »

clenz wrote:
UNI88 wrote: Is 34 abusers and about 100 victims over 54 years really comparable to the "average" for similar institutions? Clenz, do you or the Better Half have any statistics from your studies on this? I'd like an independent third party to weigh in with some statistics. IMO that's 100 too many victims.
I'd have to do some digging into my past research, and could easily e-mail some old professors who do a lot of research in the sexual abuse field....but one that I do remember is from Big Brothers Big Sisters. The latest research I did on that shows that BBBSA deals with over 240,000 kids per year and face (on average) less than 10 accusations per year.

10 (on the high side) out of 240,000 is 1 child out of every 24,000.

How that translates to the catholic situation I'm not sure though

Accusations or Credible Accusations?
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Post by clenz »

D1B wrote:
clenz wrote: I'd have to do some digging into my past research, and could easily e-mail some old professors who do a lot of research in the sexual abuse field....but one that I do remember is from Big Brothers Big Sisters. The latest research I did on that shows that BBBSA deals with over 240,000 kids per year and face (on average) less than 10 accusations per year.

10 (on the high side) out of 240,000 is 1 child out of every 24,000.

How that translates to the catholic situation I'm not sure though

Accusations or Credible Accusations?
I'm going to assume credible. That number came from BBBSA.

Other research indicates that out of all accusations, child sex abuse accusations have by far the highest "conviction" rate out of any. The % of accusations in sex abuse cases that turn out to be false is less than 10%.


To be fair I used 10 on the high side. BBBSA states that there is less than 10 per year. A quick google showed a decent number of cases, though most of the results were duplicates because it was such a big deal that it made major news. I would be the number is closer to 5 per year, if that.
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Post by JoltinJoe »

A couple of points. To make a meaningful comparison between the numbers of the BBBS and the Joliet diocese numbers reported above, you would need historical data from the BBBS from around the same time frame, not its numbers today.

Church numbers today would indicate that there are over 20,000,000 children attending Catholics schools, CCD programs, etc., and that the number of credible current accusations made in 2009 (the latest year data is available) was six (in total).

The reality is screening today in the Church, or the BBBS, or other organizations has been largely successful in weeding out people with these type of tendencies. Truth be told, if the BBBS had maintained records for a period of time running from 1948 through 2002, its statistics would resemble that of the Church.

There are three reasons why the Church gets singled out.

First and foremost, it actually retained its records of these matters. If the Church, like every other organization, had disposed of its records, frankly we would not even be having this discussion.

Second, personal injury lawyers have a financial interest in singling out the Church and have used the media to get their story out.

Third, there are still a lot of bigots who hate the Catholic Church. They have no genuine interest in the welfare of the kids; they are actually happy these kids were abused, so that they can fill up the internet with their bile against an institution which speaks out against their promiscuous agenda.

Here is a great article from the Psychology Today website actually trying to help kids by straightening out the myth of a "Catholic" problem.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/do- ... exual-abus" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Joliet Diocese - catholic pedophile factory. Files Rele

Post by D1B »

JoltinJoe wrote:A couple of points. To make a meaningful comparison between the numbers of the BBBS and the Joliet diocese numbers reported above, you would need historical data from the BBBS from around the same time frame, not its numbers today.

Church numbers today would indicate that there are over 20,000,000 children attending Catholics schools, CCD programs, etc., and that the number of credible current accusations made in 2009 (the latest year data is available) was six (in total).

The reality is screening today in the Church, or the BBBS, or other organizations has been largely successful in weeding out people with these type of tendencies. Truth be told, if the BBBS had maintained records for a period of time running from 1948 through 2002, its statistics would resemble that of the Church.

There are three reasons why the Church gets singled out.

First and foremost, it actually retained its records of these matters. If the Church, like every other organization, had disposed of its records, frankly we would not even be having this discussion.

Second, personal injury lawyers have a financial interest in singling out the Church and have used the media to get their story out.

Third, there are still a lot of bigots who hate the Catholic Church. They have no genuine interest in the welfare of the kids; they are actually happy these kids were abused, so that they can fill up the internet with their bile against an institution which speaks out against their promiscuous agenda.

Here is a great article from the Psychology Today website actually trying to help kids by straightening out the myth of a "Catholic" problem.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/do- ... exual-abus" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:lol:
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Post by Bronco »

-
Pretty funny how fast Schieffer cuts to a commercial when his panel including Sally Quinn and Carl Bernstein start to bring up how many gay priests are out there

Video at link

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Post by D1B »

clenz wrote:
D1B wrote:

Accusations or Credible Accusations?
I'm going to assume credible. That number came from BBBSA.

Other research indicates that out of all accusations, child sex abuse accusations have by far the highest "conviction" rate out of any. The % of accusations in sex abuse cases that turn out to be false is less than 10%.


To be fair I used 10 on the high side. BBBSA states that there is less than 10 per year. A quick google showed a decent number of cases, though most of the results were duplicates because it was such a big deal that it made major news. I would be the number is closer to 5 per year, if that.

Clenz, you find any reports of a Boy's and Girl's Club employee getting caught fucking a child, then being allowed to continue to work for the Boy's and Girl's Club, for decades, in different cities with the added benefity of the Boy's and Girl's Club management not alerting each new community?
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Post by clenz »

Funny, just days ago he was talking about how big of a joke he thinks psychology is...now he is quoting Pysch Today.....
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Post by JoltinJoe »

clenz wrote:Funny, just days ago he was talking about how big of a joke he thinks psychology is...now he is quoting Pysch Today.....
Funny, that conversation never happened. :coffee:
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Post by clenz »

D1B wrote:
clenz wrote: I'm going to assume credible. That number came from BBBSA.

Other research indicates that out of all accusations, child sex abuse accusations have by far the highest "conviction" rate out of any. The % of accusations in sex abuse cases that turn out to be false is less than 10%.


To be fair I used 10 on the high side. BBBSA states that there is less than 10 per year. A quick google showed a decent number of cases, though most of the results were duplicates because it was such a big deal that it made major news. I would be the number is closer to 5 per year, if that.

Clenz, you find any reports of a Boy's and Girl's Club employee getting caught fucking a child, then being allowed to continue to work for the Boy's and Girl's Club, for decades, in different cities with the added benefity of the Boy's and Girl's Club management not alerting each new community?
Nah....all were fired, all charged, and most put in jail by the legal system
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Post by Ibanez »

clenz wrote:
D1B wrote:

Clenz, you find any reports of a Boy's and Girl's Club employee getting caught fucking a child, then being allowed to continue to work for the Boy's and Girl's Club, for decades, in different cities with the added benefity of the Boy's and Girl's Club management not alerting each new community?
Nah....all were fired, all charged, and most put in jail by the legal system
So, you're telling me that the pedophiles were put through the legal system and summarily judged INSTEAD of being relocated and/or promoted? Hmm. Interesing... :coffee: :thumb:
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Post by clenz »

Ibanez wrote:
clenz wrote:Nah....all were fired, all charged, and most put in jail by the legal system
So, you're telling me that the pedophiles were put through the legal system and summarily judged INSTEAD of being relocated and/or promoted? Hmm. Interesing... :coffee: :thumb:
Strange how that works...huh :coffee:
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Post by JoltinJoe »

clenz wrote:
D1B wrote:

Clenz, you find any reports of a Boy's and Girl's Club employee getting caught **** a child, then being allowed to continue to work for the Boy's and Girl's Club, for decades, in different cities with the added benefity of the Boy's and Girl's Club management not alerting each new community?
Nah....all were fired, all charged, and most put in jail by the legal system
:lol:
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Post by JoltinJoe »

Geez, it took me all of 10 seconds to find a current story about abuse at a Boys Club and Girls Scout going unreported in the past.

http://www.wcvb.com/news/investigative/ ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry to disturb this fanatical anti-Catholic bashing, but the truth is if you placed any children's organization under the same scrutiny to which the Catholic Church has been subjected, over events 25 years ago or more, you'd have the same story.
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Post by andy7171 »

I was waiting all week for polsongriz to start smearing the name of the Stuebenville rape victim, but he never did. I guess the rapists are only innocent if they play for Montana.
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Post by clenz »

andy7171 wrote:I was waiting all week for polsongriz to start smearing the name of the Stuebenville rape victim, but he never did. I guess the rapists are only innocent if they play for Montana.
Me too.



Apparently these football players aren't worth defending and calling their accuser a cunt, bitch, etc...
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Post by UNI88 »

JoltinJoe wrote:
clenz wrote:Funny, just days ago he was talking about how big of a joke he thinks psychology is...now he is quoting Pysch Today.....
Funny, that conversation never happened. :coffee:
Clenz, I think you're confusing JJ and JSO.
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