Is This Good For America?

[AZGrizFan]

Yet 92% of people are working for it.

Conks...telling the unemployed to suck it up and get a job...telling the Walmart workers to get a better job...yet afraid to admit this isn't a good sign.

Jesus H. Christ you're a dullard.

92% of people "having a job" <> 92% of people 'working for it". If they were TRULY "working for it" and not just jealous of other people's success, we wouldn't have Occupy Wall Street, the concept of the 99%, etc., etc., etc. People WANT what the successful HAVE, but instead of being motivated to get there, they're just petty and jealous and would rather tear DOWN the successful than build THEMSELVES up to be more successful.

[kalm]

Yet 92% of people are working for it.

Conks...telling the unemployed to suck it up and get a job...telling the Walmart workers to get a better job...yet afraid to admit this isn't a good sign.

Jesus H. Christ you're a dullard.

92% of people "having a job" <> 92% of people 'working for it". If they were TRULY "working for it" and not just jealous of other people's success, we wouldn't have Occupy Wall Street, the concept of the 99%, etc., etc., etc. People WANT what the successful HAVE, but instead of being motivated to get there, they're just petty and jealous and would rather tear DOWN the successful than build THEMSELVES up to be more successful.

Yep, everyone should work hard and laziness and greed transcend income level.

[BDKJMU]

So what the **** does that mean, Obi-Wan-Chizzobi?

Well there's two answers to that question...
There's the JohnStwrong 4 page diatribe or the very short sitcom answer
Let's go with the short answer

Wal-Mart is an American success story - good old fashioned opportunity and hard work - a family business with sincere motives and solid business model

Now take that and inject it with McDonalds Hamburger hormones / Cheaper Faster crappier
and Exon Mobil ethics and a complete disregard for where you came from and how you started
add a pinch of Good ol' Boy political fraternity and legal beagle "we can out lawyer anybody" right or wrong
buy 99% of your goods (and that's not an exaggeration ) from China
and lower the overall expectations of the general population in regards to 100% of your go to market

They're overtly litigious = that's America
They're questionably unethical but perfectly legal = That's America
They're aiming at the lowest possible denominator = That is America
They're in the sh!t business = Plastic low end garbage = which is how you become the largest company
You can just keep going down the list of Americanism

I repeat: Wal-Mart is a direct reflection of America, a spot on mirror image
I have no problems with Wal-Mart
It would be like hating your own children because they grew up to be fat and stupid and unemployed
You can't hate your own kids (can you..?)

I've looked at a # of sites, mostly anti Walmart ones, and I can't find where any of them claim 99% made in China. I have run across an 85% claim by PBS and a 91% claim below:
http://www.dldewey.com/columns/walmart.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But that is manufactured goods. Much of what Walmart sells is groceries (they are the #1 grocer in the US, with about 1/4 of grocery sales).

Of course they are litigious- they are sued literally thousands of times a year.

[BDKJMU]

The town I'm thinking of only has Walmart. If they're allowed to be successful enough free marketeers that's all any town would have.

That's bullshit and you know it. If a town is big enough to have a WalMart, it is also going to have a CVS, Walgreens, and/or Rite-Aid. My town, for instance, has only one WalMart, but has 4 CVS, 3 Walgreens, and a Rite-Aid (not counting the dozen plus independent pharmacies). I know it's part of your schtick to present the worst case scenario as the norm, but even you're stretching it with this one.

Yeah, just a few hundred yards down the street from my nearest Walmart there is a Walgreens on one side and a CVS on the other.

[Chizzang]

I've looked at a # of sites, mostly anti Walmart ones, and I can't find where any of them claim 99% made in China. I have run across an 85% claim by PBS and a 91% claim below:
http://www.dldewey.com/columns/walmart.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But that is manufactured goods. Much of what Walmart sells is groceries (they are the #1 grocer in the US, with about 1/4 of grocery sales).

Of course they are litigious- they are sued literally thousands of times a year.

Right...
Once you take the food / groceries out of the equation - what's left over is 99% goods from China (fact)
But to be clear: I have no issue with China or Wal-Mart
That's just the way it is

[BDKJMU]

I've looked at a # of sites, mostly anti Walmart ones, and I can't find where any of them claim 99% made in China. I have run across an 85% claim by PBS and a 91% claim below:
http://www.dldewey.com/columns/walmart.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But that is manufactured goods. Much of what Walmart sells is groceries (they are the #1 grocer in the US, with about 1/4 of grocery sales).

Of course they are litigious- they are sued literally thousands of times a year.

Right...
Once you take the food / groceries out of the equation - what's left over is 99% goods from China (fact)
But to be clear: I have no issue with China or Wal-Mart
That's just the way it is

Wrong- Walmart also imports goods from other countries besides China.
Even after you remove groceries its not 99% imported. More like 90%. Fact.

[kalm]

I've looked at a # of sites, mostly anti Walmart ones, and I can't find where any of them claim 99% made in China. I have run across an 85% claim by PBS and a 91% claim below:
http://www.dldewey.com/columns/walmart.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But that is manufactured goods. Much of what Walmart sells is groceries (they are the #1 grocer in the US, with about 1/4 of grocery sales).

Of course they are litigious- they are sued literally thousands of times a year.

Right...
Once you take the food / groceries out of the equation - what's left over is 99% goods from China (fact)
But to be clear: I have no issue with China or Wal-Mart
That's just the way it is

Growing up, it was almost counter-culture (at least for uber-conservative E. WA during the bland 80's) to own things like a volkswagen and wear the United Colors of Benneton.

It's deliciously ironic to now watch people like BDK defend Walmart's free trade affiliations.

[Chizzang]

We all know: Wal-Mart is the largest importer of Chines goods in America
But did you know: Wal-Mart is the worlds largest importer of Chinese products (period) Worlds Largest

Did you know that in 2005 less that 5% of Wal-Mart non-food products came from America
Did you know that number has gone down every year

Thus:
As an American citizen
We can't simultaneously complain about imported Chinese products and lost jobs - and - defend Wal-Mart
You have to pick one side or the other in that debate
So I choose Wal-Mart and defend that it is who we are and ultimately "what we want"

[CID1990]

Thus:
As an American citizen
We can't simultaneously complain about imported Chinese products and lost jobs - and - defend Wal-Mart
You have to pick one side or the other in that debate
So I choose Wal-Mart and defend that it is who we are and ultimately "what we want"

I agree with you, but I do think we can applaud Walmart for finding ways to make things affordable while maximizing profits, while at the same time decrying the global system that makes it possible in the way they do it. If the cheap Chinese goods were not available, them there would be someone out there who would still find a way to emulate what Walmart does.

[kalm]

Thus:
As an American citizen
We can't simultaneously complain about imported Chinese products and lost jobs - and - defend Wal-Mart
You have to pick one side or the other in that debate
So I choose Wal-Mart and defend that it is who we are and ultimately "what we want"

I agree with you, but I do think we can applaud Walmart for finding ways to make things affordable while maximizing profits, while at the same time decrying the global system that makes it possible in the way they do it. If the cheap Chinese goods were not available, them there would be someone out there who would still find a way to emulate what Walmart does.

I agree with all of this. I especially like Chizzang's earlier point about it being unethical AND legal.

So to summarize, Walmart provides affordable goods by:

Taking full advantage of globalization
Shitty pay
Using leverage to absorb years of losses in some locations to close down the competition
Applying leverage to control wholesalers

Again all good and legal and shrewd business practices. Walmart, the Goldman-Sachs of retail.

[YoUDeeMan]

What is wrong with those numbers? How do they negatively impact you...or anyone?

If anything, the "poor" (now that is a funny concept) Americans are happily engaged in watching Dr. Phil or the newest reality show on their new (CHEAPLY PRICED) flat screen TV while drinking lower priced sodas and eating low priced chips...interupted occassionally by a call on their cheap, government provided cell phone (a newly defined "necessity").

kalm, you should be in favor of the Walton model...after all, it reflects what people want. More things at lower prices. That allows people to live a higher lifestyle with less money. You, and the people who are living the better lifestyle, should be thankful for Walmart. Instead, petty jealousy rules the world.

So more things at lower prices is equal to better paying jobs so one can afford nicer things? You think Walmart's success is good for America as a whole?

Those numbers have no immediate impact on me. But I'm looking big picture and long term here.

Long term? Are you serious?

What was the long term effect Vanderbilt had on the railroad industry? What was the long term effect of Morgan's consolidation of electrical power production? Ma Bell? Name any mega industry and I'll show you success...not only for the company but for people in general. So yes, WalMart is good for this country because most people want more for less.

Sure, at some point the gubmint steps in and breaks things up...but in the meantime, people get better living conditions. To call the poor in America "poor" is a joke. They have roofs over their heads, electricty, running water, free education, food, sneakers, TVs...anything they "need" to live. All provided by the government (including a cell phone, for God's sake), if necessary.

The goods at WalMart allow lower class folks to live like kings compared to their predecessors. In the meantime, people like Grizhalfwit, think it is unfair if someone else has 2 beach houses and a $100,000 car.

With the way the government is going, as elected by the PEOPLE, people are going to continue to get more and more goodies provided to them to keep them satisfied. Who the hell needs a better paying job when the "necessities" are already provided?

Oh, that's right, people who want more.

Well if you want "more", than go out and be creative enough to warrant "more".

Face it, the people who want more...and I mean really WANT (not wish for) more get more. They do something different than the average Joe. No WalMart will ever prevent that.

[DSUrocks07]

Americans want low cost goods. But want to be highly paid. Economics doesn't work in an arbitrary fashion. There is always a cause and effect.

[YoUDeeMan]

Hey, kalm, WalMart is good for America...we're outsourcing our textile worker deaths.

Have you bought any t-shirts lately?

http://news.msn.com/world/bangladesh-fi ... inoperable" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


DHAKA, Bangladesh — The fire alarm: Waved off by managers. An exit door: Locked. The fire extinguishers: Not working and apparently "meant just to impress" inspectors and customers.That is the picture survivors paint of the garment-factory fire Saturday that killed 112 people who were trapped inside or jumped to their deaths in desperation. For Bangladesh, where such factories commonly ignore safety as they rush to produce for retailers around the world, the tragedy was unusual only in scope: More than 200 people have died in garment-factory fires in the country since 2006.

"The owners go unpunished and so they don't care about installing enough security facilities," she said. "The owners should be held responsible and sent to jail."

The factory in Saturday's blaze is owned by Tazreen Fashions Ltd., a subsidiary of the Tuba Group that has produced clothing for Wal-Mart, at least in the past. Neither Tazreen nor Tuba Group officials could be reached for comment.

The Tuba Group is a major Bangladeshi garment exporter whose clients include Wal-Mart, Carrefour and IKEA, according to its website. Its factories export garments to the U.S., Germany, France, Italy and the Netherlands, among other countries. The Tazreen factory, which opened in 2009 and employed about 1,700 people, made polo shirts, fleece jackets and T-shirts.

Tazreen was given a "high risk" safety rating after a May 16, 2011, audit conducted by an "ethical sourcing" assessor for Wal-Mart, according to a document posted on the Tuba Group's website. It did not specify what led to the rating.

Wal-Mart spokesman Kevin Gardner said online documents indicating an orange or "high risk" assessment after the May 2011 inspection and a yellow or "medium risk" report after an inspection in August 2011 appeared to pertain to the factory. The August 2011 letter said Wal-Mart would conduct another inspection within one year.

Gardner said it was not clear if that inspection had been conducted or whether the factory was still making products for Wal-Mart. If a factory is rated "orange" three times in two years, Wal-Mart won't place any orders for one year. The May 2011 report was the first orange rating for the factory.

[kalm]

Hey, kalm, WalMart is good for America...we're outsourcing our textile worker deaths.

Have you bought any t-shirts lately?

http://news.msn.com/world/bangladesh-fi ... inoperable" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


DHAKA, Bangladesh — The fire alarm: Waved off by managers. An exit door: Locked. The fire extinguishers: Not working and apparently "meant just to impress" inspectors and customers.That is the picture survivors paint of the garment-factory fire Saturday that killed 112 people who were trapped inside or jumped to their deaths in desperation. For Bangladesh, where such factories commonly ignore safety as they rush to produce for retailers around the world, the tragedy was unusual only in scope: More than 200 people have died in garment-factory fires in the country since 2006.

"The owners go unpunished and so they don't care about installing enough security facilities," she said. "The owners should be held responsible and sent to jail."

The factory in Saturday's blaze is owned by Tazreen Fashions Ltd., a subsidiary of the Tuba Group that has produced clothing for Wal-Mart, at least in the past. Neither Tazreen nor Tuba Group officials could be reached for comment.

The Tuba Group is a major Bangladeshi garment exporter whose clients include Wal-Mart, Carrefour and IKEA, according to its website. Its factories export garments to the U.S., Germany, France, Italy and the Netherlands, among other countries. The Tazreen factory, which opened in 2009 and employed about 1,700 people, made polo shirts, fleece jackets and T-shirts.

Tazreen was given a "high risk" safety rating after a May 16, 2011, audit conducted by an "ethical sourcing" assessor for Wal-Mart, according to a document posted on the Tuba Group's website. It did not specify what led to the rating.

Wal-Mart spokesman Kevin Gardner said online documents indicating an orange or "high risk" assessment after the May 2011 inspection and a yellow or "medium risk" report after an inspection in August 2011 appeared to pertain to the factory. The August 2011 letter said Wal-Mart would conduct another inspection within one year.

Gardner said it was not clear if that inspection had been conducted or whether the factory was still making products for Wal-Mart. If a factory is rated "orange" three times in two years, Wal-Mart won't place any orders for one year. The May 2011 report was the first orange rating for the factory.

Exactly!

As for your Vanderbilt/Morgan analogy, the obvious difference is that they actually produced something. Not only that, they created infrastructure which, btw, was heavily subsidized by the government. That's also how Paul Ryan's family made their fortune, turning him into the "producer" that he is.

I'll throw my chinese made Ninja blender away when it stops working after a couple of months, people and goods are still being moved down the rail corridors.

Infrastructure and manufacturing create a strong middle class. A retail based economy is only as good as the wages that create demand.

[Chizzang]

I agree with you, but I do think we can applaud Walmart for finding ways to make things affordable while maximizing profits, while at the same time decrying the global system that makes it possible in the way they do it. If the cheap Chinese goods were not available, them there would be someone out there who would still find a way to emulate what Walmart does.

I agree with all of this. I especially like Chizzang's earlier point about it being unethical AND legal.

So to summarize, Walmart provides affordable goods by:

Taking full advantage of globalization
Shitty pay
Using leverage to absorb years of losses in some locations to close down the competition
Applying leverage to control wholesalers

Again all good and legal and shrewd business practices. Walmart, the Goldman-Sachs of retail.

Bingo..!!!
They're in it to win it - with a team of lawyers that would make Goldman-Sachs blush
They will fund losses that sink other tiny companies like Target or K-Mart in order to completely remove local competitive retailers

They strategically under employ and short hour workers so they can force them onto government programs

and on and on and on - we've mentioned pretty much all of it
BUT: It's all legal and it's all Good For America / I repeat: It is who we are / it's exactly what we deserve

[kalm]

I agree with all of this. I especially like Chizzang's earlier point about it being unethical AND legal.

So to summarize, Walmart provides affordable goods by:

Taking full advantage of globalization
Shitty pay
Using leverage to absorb years of losses in some locations to close down the competition
Applying leverage to control wholesalers

Again all good and legal and shrewd business practices. Walmart, the Goldman-Sachs of retail.

Bingo..!!!
They're in it to win it - with a team of lawyers that would make Goldman-Sachs blush
They will fund losses that sink other tiny companies like Target or K-Mart in order to completely remove local competitive retailers

They strategically under employ and short hour workers so they can force them onto government programs

and on and on and on - we've mentioned pretty much all of it
BUT: It's all legal and it's all Good For America / I repeat: It is who we are / it's exactly what we deserve

You've again left out the part about how it's good for America.

[Chizzang]

Bingo..!!!
They're in it to win it - with a team of lawyers that would make Goldman-Sachs blush
They will fund losses that sink other tiny companies like Target or K-Mart in order to completely remove local competitive retailers

They strategically under employ and short hour workers so they can force them onto government programs

and on and on and on - we've mentioned pretty much all of it
BUT: It's all legal and it's all Good For America / I repeat: It is who we are / it's exactly what we deserve

You've again left out the part about how it's good for America.

It's perfectly legal - thus - It's good for America
End of conversation

[kalm]

You've again left out the part about how it's good for America.

It's perfectly legal - thus - It's good for America
End of conversation

Oh, sorry.

[YoUDeeMan]

Exactly!

As for your Vanderbilt/Morgan analogy, the obvious difference is that they actually produced something. Not only that, they created infrastructure which, btw, was heavily subsidized by the government. That's also how Paul Ryan's family made their fortune, turning him into the "producer" that he is.

I'll throw my chinese made Ninja blender away when it stops working after a couple of months, people and goods are still being moved down the rail corridors.

Infrastructure and manufacturing create a strong middle class. A retail based economy is only as good as the wages that create demand.

Produce something? What were/are those trains shipping? And how do households use electricity...are people producing things or using...wait for it...kitchen appliances, TVs, computers, lights (to stay up and watch TV). Yup, right back to consumer goods...that people purchase in stores...as cheaply as they can.

Now, tell me, again, what the previous production and infrastructure is really about?

And why did you purchase a chinese made Ninja blender? Selfish bastard. Walk the talk or you are just another complainer who is part of your complaint.

http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/appliances.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chizzang]

Exactly!

As for your Vanderbilt/Morgan analogy, the obvious difference is that they actually produced something. Not only that, they created infrastructure which, btw, was heavily subsidized by the government. That's also how Paul Ryan's family made their fortune, turning him into the "producer" that he is.

I'll throw my chinese made Ninja blender away when it stops working after a couple of months, people and goods are still being moved down the rail corridors.

Infrastructure and manufacturing create a strong middle class. A retail based economy is only as good as the wages that create demand.

Produce something? What were/are those trains shipping? And how do households use electricity...are people producing things or using...wait for it...kitchen appliances, TVs, computers, lights (to stay up and watch TV). Yup, right back to consumer goods...that people purchase in stores...as cheaply as they can.

Now, tell me, again, what the previous production and infrastructure is really about?

And why did you purchase a chinese made Ninja blender? Selfish bastard. Walk the talk or you are just another complainer who is part of your complaint.

http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/appliances.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I purchased a blender made in Utah (by hard working Mormon Families)
It's called:
Blendtec™
Quality products made in America for 400% more money ®

I love that damn thing!!!
well worth the 4 x price

[YoUDeeMan]

I purchased a blender made in Utah (by hard working Mormon Families)
It's called:
Blendtec™
Quality products made in America for 400% more money ®

I love that damn thing!!!
well worth the 4 x price

You are a true (out-of-touch with the masses) American patriot...unlike that communist kalm.

Notice how "kalm" is very similar to "karl m".

Sneaky bastages are trying to infiltrate everywhere.

[Chizzang]

All my guitars are made in America
My guitar amplifiers are made in England

Most of my home electronics are U.S. Made
My Stereo System is made in Finland

Both of my bikes were made in California (imagine that)
My Ford F-150 truck was made in Kansas City

My stove is made in Greenwood Mississippi

Even my Kitchen Garbage can is made in the USA (way too fucking expensive)

I go out of my way to buy U.S. made products

[DSUrocks07]

Produce something? What were/are those trains shipping? And how do households use electricity...are people producing things or using...wait for it...kitchen appliances, TVs, computers, lights (to stay up and watch TV). Yup, right back to consumer goods...that people purchase in stores...as cheaply as they can.

Now, tell me, again, what the previous production and infrastructure is really about?

And why did you purchase a chinese made Ninja blender? Selfish bastard. Walk the talk or you are just another complainer who is part of your complaint.

http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/appliances.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I purchased a blender made in Utah (by hard working Mormon Families)
It's called:
Blendtec™
Quality products made in America for 400% more money ®

I love that damn thing!!!
well worth the 4 x price

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAl28d6tbko[/youtube]

[CAA Flagship]

All my guitars are made in America
My guitar amplifiers are made in England

Most of my home electronics are U.S. Made
My Stereo System is made in Finland

Both of my bikes were made in California (imagine that)
My Ford F-150 truck was made in Kansas City

My stove is made in Greenwood Mississippi

Even my Kitchen Garbage can is made in the USA (way too fucking expensive)

I go out of my way to buy U.S. made products

My house was Made in America.

[89Hen]

All my guitars are made in America
My guitar amplifiers are made in England

Most of my home electronics are U.S. Made
My Stereo System is made in Finland

Both of my bikes were made in California (imagine that)
My Ford F-150 truck was made in Kansas City

My stove is made in Greenwood Mississippi

Even my Kitchen Garbage can is made in the USA (way too fucking expensive)

I go out of my way to buy U.S. made products

My house was Made in America.

My wife and kids were.