Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retreat

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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by Ibanez »

D1B wrote:
Ibanez wrote: Automation is the future but that means less jobs for humans.

I'd do retail as a last resort, but I would prefer to never go back there. Too much B.S.
Less production jobs, perhaps. People have to design and make those machines. Automation should increase profits that are hopefully invested back in the business, creating more jobs.
You will need people to design, manufacture, operate and maintain the machine, but the machine (like those in the auto industry) can do the job of a few people quicker. I do agree with you with everything you've said in this thread. :thumb:
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by CAA Flagship »

There is no point blaming management at Hostess. They are losing their jobs too.
So the choice is: take less pay (again) or everybody goes home.

I'm not so sure that going home is the best option. I'll bet that in some locations, keeping a job is the far better choice because there are no other jobs to go to.

I fear that the union leadership failed here.
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by D1B »

CAA Flagship wrote:There is no point blaming management at Hostess. They are losing their jobs too.
So the choice is: take less pay (again) or everybody goes home.

I'm not so sure that going home is the best option. I'll bet that in some locations, keeping a job is the far better choice because there are no other jobs to go to.

I fear that the union leadership failed here.
Probably right, union leadership needs to give up a fight another day, but I don't think they'd be in this situation in the first place if management had a clue. It's a poorly run company and that has little to do with the dough mixer.
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by D1B »

Ibanez wrote:
D1B wrote:
Less production jobs, perhaps. People have to design and make those machines. Automation should increase profits that are hopefully invested back in the business, creating more jobs.
You will need people to design, manufacture, operate and maintain the machine, but the machine (like those in the auto industry) can do the job of a few people quicker. I do agree with you with everything you've said in this thread. :thumb:
The problem I have with conks is that all gains from sales and efficiency are squandered in shitty dividend payments to asshole shareholders and bonuses to undeserving managers and CEO's. No one wants to "build" anything anymore, it's just quick money or out.

Conks have dropped the ball.
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by Grizalltheway »

D1B wrote:
Ibanez wrote: You will need people to design, manufacture, operate and maintain the machine, but the machine (like those in the auto industry) can do the job of a few people quicker. I do agree with you with everything you've said in this thread. :thumb:
The problem I have with conks is that all gains from sales and efficiency are squandered in shitty dividend payments to asshole shareholders and bonuses to undeserving managers and CEO's. No one wants to "build" anything anymore, it's just quick money or out.

Conks have dropped the ball.
Exactly. CEOs today make on average 400 times more than their entry-level employees, up from ~70 times more in the 1970s.
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by D1B »

Grizalltheway wrote:
D1B wrote:
The problem I have with conks is that all gains from sales and efficiency are squandered in shitty dividend payments to asshole shareholders and bonuses to undeserving managers and CEO's. No one wants to "build" anything anymore, it's just quick money or out.

Conks have dropped the ball.
Exactly. CEOs today make on average 400 times more than their entry-level employees, up from ~70 times more in the 1970s.
Think of what all the billions paid out to those lazy conk assholes could have done if properly invested in R&D and long term sustainability strategies.

Conks are lazy.
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by Gil Dobie »

If Hostess brand is bought up, the former employees may have a chance to interview for their previous jobs at a significant pay-cut. :coffee:
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by houndawg »

CAA Flagship wrote:There is no point blaming management at Hostess. They are losing their jobs too.
So the choice is: take less pay (again) or everybody goes home.

I'm not so sure that going home is the best option. I'll bet that in some locations, keeping a job is the far better choice because there are no other jobs to go to.

I fear that the union leadership failed here.
Possibly. First I'd have to hear about what kind of wage/benefit/bonus cuts management was offering to take. :coffee:
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by AZGrizFan »

Grizalltheway wrote:
D1B wrote:
The problem I have with conks is that all gains from sales and efficiency are squandered in shitty dividend payments to asshole shareholders and bonuses to undeserving managers and CEO's. No one wants to "build" anything anymore, it's just quick money or out.

Conks have dropped the ball.
Exactly. CEOs today make on average 400 times more than their entry-level employees, up from ~70 times more in the 1970s.
Perhaps the most misunderstood, overquoted and misguided statistic on the PLANET. But thanks for playing.
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by UNI88 »

Gil Dobie wrote:If Hostess brand is bought up, the former employees may have a chance to interview for their previous jobs at a significant pay-cut. :coffee:
Why don't the employees pool their resources and buy the company?
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by houndawg »

UNI88 wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:If Hostess brand is bought up, the former employees may have a chance to interview for their previous jobs at a significant pay-cut. :coffee:
Why don't the employees pool their resources and buy the company?
Why doesn't management lead by example and slash their own pay and benefits and bonuses?
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by CAA Flagship »

UNI88 wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:If Hostess brand is bought up, the former employees may have a chance to interview for their previous jobs at a significant pay-cut. :coffee:
Why don't the employees pool their resources and buy the company?
But then they would have to break up their union knowing the company can't afford to operate with their demands. :?
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by UNI88 »

houndawg wrote:
UNI88 wrote:
Why don't the employees pool their resources and buy the company?
Why doesn't management lead by example and slash their own pay and benefits and bonuses?
First, they should.

Second, do we know that they haven't already?
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by Franks Tanks »

UNI88 wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:If Hostess brand is bought up, the former employees may have a chance to interview for their previous jobs at a significant pay-cut. :coffee:
Why don't the employees pool their resources and buy the company?

Probably because the company can't function as currently constructed. The union members would soon realize that the only way they could survive is to cut salaries/benefits!

This business has very small profit margins. It is a commodity product in an industry that is easy entry. They have some brand awareness, but it is mostly negative. The products they create serve a market that shrinks every year and they have downward price pressure as they are a value brand. Overall there may be some value in the brands and products, but a vastly different strategy would need to be employed to make it a profitable business once again. Any decent analyst would note that their business model has serious challenges. It can be profitable, but strict cost control measures would need to be implemented and maintained. The market for the product will not grow, so the company can only be profitable by cutting costs.

It seems Hostess and the Union have done a lot to keep the old way going, but they have both reached a breaking point. Workers can't take less pay, but Hostess is unable to continue paying the salary. Former employees should seek work elsewhere if they feel they are worth more, and Hostess can liquidate and someone will make the valuable brands work.
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by Franks Tanks »

houndawg wrote:
UNI88 wrote:
Why don't the employees pool their resources and buy the company?
Why doesn't management lead by example and slash their own pay and benefits and bonuses?
It is possible that they have. The problem is that they have no financial flexibility to adjust to lower sales or shrinking markets. They can't fire workers, pay them less or close pants due to union contracts. Perhaps better technology in their factories would inprove effeciency and reduce costs, but costs are only reduced if they can shed workers. Also they would have a very difficuly time just raising the capital needed for the projects given factors explained above. When a compnany has no flexibility they get forced into a corner and have no other recourse.
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by D1B »

Found this...
An Open Letter to the Twinkie (and Other Hostess Snack-Cakes)
http://www.michaeladelerg.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dear Mr. Twinkie (and Friends),

In a more innocent and ignorant time, I grew up with you. You or your friends were in my lunch box almost every day. It was a pretty clever idea putting two of you in the same cellophane wrapping, assuring that I would always get, and eat, two snack cakes. Sure it doubled the calories, but it allowed you to move more product. Commercials featuring your cartoon alter-egos—Twinkie the Kid, Fruit Pie the Magician, Captain Cupcake—went toe-to-toe with Ronald McDonald during after-school television programming. When my parents were out of the house, I gorged—eating eight of your buddies at a time.

Recently, your company, Hostess, filed for bankruptcy. This came after decades of dominating the snack-cake market. What happened?

The most obvious answer is that an increasing number of Americans won’t eat you anymore. You may have been a staple in my lunch box, but I guarantee you’ll never be in the lunch boxes of my sons. I'm no health-food zealot, but it is incredibly depressing that your cousin, the Ding Dong, has 19.4 grams of fat (about as much as a fatty hamburger patty with almost-none of the nutrients). Americans are trying to eat healthier: a recent study notes that the number of yogurt-eaters in the U.S. has doubled since 2000. American diet trend lines are against you and cannot be reversed.

Meanwhile, you’ve faced market-share erosion even within the shrinking snack-cake market. Little Debbie brand products out-compete you on price and steal your young-slacker and low income customers; resurgent local bakeries beat you on quality and take away your affluent customers.

Fair or not, you’re a symbol of what’s wrong with the American diet. As you well know, Mr. Twinkie, you have 37 ingredients, including glycerides and various mineral derivatives that are closer to rocks than anything in the four food groups. And then you have those fantastically named ingredients like FD&C Yellow 5 and Red 40. The Internet is full of amateur studies that trumpet your supernatural characteristics: one site claims that an unwrapped Twinkie remains unchanged even after sitting in the open air for three years. Another website discusses an experiment in which a Twinkie was put out against ten different foods from all four food groups and mice were allowed to select which food to eat. Every single time, the mice selected the non-Twinkie choice.

When Hostess announced its intent to seek bankruptcy protection, many celebrated. They saw Hostess’s demise as a watershed moment in the changing American diet; they saw it as poetic justice. While I won’t let you in my house, I choose not to celebrate.

If or when the gates permanently close on the Hostess factory (bakery seems like the wrong term), 19,000 good jobs—many of them union jobs—are lost. Hostess has nearly $1B in obligations to its pension and employee benefit funds. The demise of Hostess will inevitably result in the loss of good jobs and un-kept promises to thousands of people who put in an honest day’s work their entire lives. In that way, the bankruptcy in Hostess is less a watershed event for the American diet than another in a string of American business tragedies. Hostess joins Kodak as the second great American brand to seek bankruptcy protection in 2012--and we're only one month into the new year. The similarities are striking: both companies did well by their employees and hometown communities, both failed primarily because they sell products that Americans no longer want.

As for you, Mr. Twinkie, the day will soon come when you are longer on the shelves of American convenience stores. My grandchildren likely will never have the option of eating you. They will see in you museums. They will be amazed when you emerge from dug-up time capsules every bit as yellow, moist, and soft as the day you were buried. They will try to imagine a day when people ate you daily on their way to work, in between sips of Mountain Dew and tokes on a cigarette.
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by AZGrizFan »

An Open Letter to the Twinkie (and Other Hostess Snack-Cakes)
http://www.michaeladelerg.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dear Mr. Twinkie (and Friends),

In a more innocent and ignorant time, I grew up with you. You or your friends were in my lunch box almost every day. It was a pretty clever idea putting two of you in the same cellophane wrapping, assuring that I would always get, and eat, two snack cakes.

My grandchildren likely will never have the option of eating you. They will see in you museums. They will be amazed when you emerge from dug-up time capsules every bit as yellow, moist, and soft as the day you were buried. They will try to imagine a day when people ate you daily on their way to work, in between sips of Mountain Dew and tokes on a cigarette.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :nod: :nod:
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by biobengal »

Have you even seen anyone from the younger generation chewing on a Hostess?

Dunkin' Donuts, Tim Horton's, TastyKakes and Entemann's destroy Hostess in the places I frequent.

Ohhhh.... sour cream glazed donut from Tim's.

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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by D1B »

biobengal wrote:Have you even seen anyone from the younger generation chewing on a Hostess?

Dunkin' Donuts, Tim Horton's, TastyKakes and Entemann's destroy Hostess in the places I frequent.

Ohhhh.... sour cream glazed donut from Tim's.

Image

Their market is prepacked "impulse" shit primarily consumed by dope smokers, diabetic fat pieces of shit and hunters in convenience stores and gas stations.. They also do shitty breads.

Back in the day, every kid, had a Hostess Ding Dong, Cupcake or Twinkie in their lunch. Kids now buy lunches at school or get their lunches for free thanks to Baldy and Z's taxed high income.

Nothing has changed for Hostess except their custumer. They're dead.
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by AZGrizFan »

D1B wrote:Back in the day, every kid, had a Hostess Ding Dong, Cupcake or Twinkie in their lunch. Kids now buy lunches at school or get their lunches for free thanks to Baldy and Z's taxed high income.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :ohno: :ohno:
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by HI54UNI »

Grizalltheway wrote:
D1B wrote:
The problem I have with conks is that all gains from sales and efficiency are squandered in shitty dividend payments to asshole shareholders and bonuses to undeserving managers and CEO's. No one wants to "build" anything anymore, it's just quick money or out.

Conks have dropped the ball.
Exactly. CEOs today make on average 400 times more than their entry-level employees, up from ~70 times more in the 1970s.
I'll take the 70x my entry level employees. Where do I sign up?

:coffee:
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by green&gold75 »

D1B wrote:
biobengal wrote:Have you even seen anyone from the younger generation chewing on a Hostess?

Dunkin' Donuts, Tim Horton's, TastyKakes and Entemann's destroy Hostess in the places I frequent.

Ohhhh.... sour cream glazed donut from Tim's.

Image

Their market is prepacked "impulse" **** primarily consumed by dope smokers, diabetic fat pieces of **** and hunters in convenience stores and gas stations.. They also do shitty breads.

Back in the day, every kid, had a Hostess Ding Dong, Cupcake or Twinkie in their lunch. Kids now buy lunches at school or get their lunches for free thanks to Baldy and Z's taxed high income.

Nothing has changed for Hostess except their custumer. They're dead.
No Suzy Qs?

Not a fan of twinkies, but on a recent food show some southern roadside joint was deep frying them - looked intriguing.

As long as the company isn't doing well enough to afford good lobbyists, this stuff is likely doomed at the hands of the donk health food nazis, anyway. It's nutritionally incorrect.
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by Gil Dobie »

green&gold75 wrote:Not a fan of twinkies, but on a recent food show some southern roadside joint was deep frying them - looked intriguing.
Minnesota State Fair has deep fried twinkies.
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by D1B »

green&gold75 wrote:
D1B wrote:

Their market is prepacked "impulse" **** primarily consumed by dope smokers, diabetic fat pieces of **** and hunters in convenience stores and gas stations.. They also do shitty breads.

Back in the day, every kid, had a Hostess Ding Dong, Cupcake or Twinkie in their lunch. Kids now buy lunches at school or get their lunches for free thanks to Baldy and Z's taxed high income.

Nothing has changed for Hostess except their custumer. They're dead.
No Suzy Qs?

Not a fan of twinkies, but on a recent food show some southern roadside joint was deep frying them - looked intriguing.

As long as the company isn't doing well enough to afford good lobbyists, this stuff is likely doomed at the hands of the donk health food nazis, anyway. It's nutritionally incorrect.
Donk health food Nazis will eventually save our nation billions in healthcare costs and our environment.

Conks = Caveman idiots incapable of thinking beyond their own short-sighted greed.
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Re: Hostess joins John Galt and Tman 67 at the mountain retr

Post by SDHornet »

Wow…a coherent and civilized thread with D1B? That Mayan calendar thing might not be so far fetched after all… :?

EDIT: Nevermind, posted just a wee too late. :lol:
Last edited by SDHornet on Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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