Christianity says, "Bring it pussies".

[YoUDeeMan]

Facts are, indeed, a bitch. This is 2012, and you apparently aren't aware that the sun impacts the ocean's tides.

In addition, you have no idea of how to support your own positions.





Preventing (delaying, actually) the masses (no pun intended) from learning about the real order of their solar system, which would certainly challenge the Church's ideas about Heaven and Earth's relationship, versus allowing a scientist to write some biting comedy about a church leader. Great trade off for humanity.

We are talking about Galileo's time, not today as far as the Sun's effect is concerned.

As for truncating my thoughts, I am trying to keep it brief. You have given shit for proof champ. Step up and give something useful instead on snippets of bullshit.

Christianity was the foundation of the scientific method. While the Catholic church was heavy handed, it does in no way diminish from Christianity's efforts for discovering the truth.

You are trying to tell me a bunch of science minded guys all got together and started science as we know it? What, did they text each other? How about doing a webex? Nice try.

Classic dude. Classic.

Ibn al-Haytham (Alhazen)...NOT a Christian. Want proof?

If you would step away from keyboard for a minute, you would realize that you haven't brought anything but opinion and ignorance to this discussion.

"Sure the Church prevented Galileo from teaching the world about the order of the solar system (which was derived from...wait for it...Glileo's observations) because...well, it simply challenged the thinking of the Church (what thinking...was it based upon the scientific method?). But the Church let him live after calling the Pope a simpleton. What more could anyone ask or expect from the Church at that time?"

You have very low standards and expectations for yourself and those you hold in high regard.

[D1B]

Christianity is the reason that the Roman Empire fell and the reason that we had a dark ages. It wasn't until scientists grew some balls and stood up to the Church that the Renaissance began.

And while our country was founded by Christians, don't forget: they came here trying to get away from other Christians.

Why couldn't the renaissance have happened in the Arab world, or in India, or China, or in the Aztec, Inca, or Mayan civilizations? Are only white folks endowed by EVOLUTION with the ability to advance science?

The Dark Ages were ended by Christian leaders in Europe and reformers within the Church, by the way.

The acts of pedophilia were committed by men of power inside Christian churches. These priests were left alone with young boys simply because they were "men of God". Then when the truth started coming out, the churches covered it up. Don't act like you don't know about the Catholic church & their love of child rape.

Wrong. They were left with them because they are trusted, the same way parents trust teachers, coaches, parents of their kid's friends, and many other adults.

And?

The problem is, people unconditionally trust the clergy, at least they used to. Also, when coaches, parents of other kids and other adults get caught ass raping your son, the school district/other kids parents' neighbors, etc don't rally around said pedophile with a highly organized system of cover up and use billions of dollars of assets to defend him, deflect blame and threaten/silence witnesses - they go to fucking jail where they can't ass rape more boys.

Father Murphy raped 200 deaf boys while working for the catholic church who employed the above system of dealing with child rape.

[kalm]

I started from the beginning of this thread which is now only 1 1/2 pages long and I can't even remember what SeaGriz's challenge was.

Hey Z...there's a thread over here you really need to check out.

[kalm]

While derailing a thread is a much appreciated ability here in the Political forum, I have decided to start a thread that is to be full on ugliness (CS.COM Style), for I am tired of interjecting defense of Christianity in other's threads.

I will start this one off and say that Christianity is the best thing to ever happen to the Earth, and without it, the U.S. would not be the power that it is, nor would the World be as advanced.

Oh yeah...here it is.

I think 86 already addressed it, but the enlightenment was the best thing that happened to mankind and what led to the creation of the U.S. The enlightenment was a big giant bitch slap to the church controlled status quo.

[Ibanez]

While derailing a thread is a much appreciated ability here in the Political forum, I have decided to start a thread that is to be full on ugliness (CS.COM Style) (Tired of interjecting defense in other's threads).

I will start this one off and say that Christianity is the best thing to ever happen to the Earth, and without it, the U.S. would not be the power that it is, nor would the World be as advanced.

Christianity is the reason that the Roman Empire fell and the reason that we had a dark ages. It wasn't until scientists grew some balls and stood up to the Church that the Renaissance began.

And while our country was founded by Christians, don't forget: they came here trying to get away from other Christians.

Our country was founded by prudes who wanted nothing to do with the crazy, sex maniac Catholics and Anglicans on England and France.

[GannonFan]

While derailing a thread is a much appreciated ability here in the Political forum, I have decided to start a thread that is to be full on ugliness (CS.COM Style) (Tired of interjecting defense in other's threads).

I will start this one off and say that Christianity is the best thing to ever happen to the Earth, and without it, the U.S. would not be the power that it is, nor would the World be as advanced.

Christianity is the reason that the Roman Empire fell and the reason that we had a dark ages. It wasn't until scientists grew some balls and stood up to the Church that the Renaissance began.

And while our country was founded by Christians, don't forget: they came here trying to get away from other Christians.

Huh? The Roman Empire fell because of Christianity? So that whole slow slope of falling apart over centuries, that included the rich in Rome falling back into their luxury and gluttony and letting non-Romans fight their wars and build their empire, that included emperors being discarded at the whim of whichever army held sway, that included "barbarian" tribes becoming bigger and better equipped and more aggressive and being pushed into Roman lands by even bigger, better equipped, and more aggressive barbarian tribes, that included the Empire being just too strung out and to expansive and expensive to defend every part of it, all of that didn't matter and what really did was Christianity?

I'll grant you, Rome falling apart like it did did directly cause the Dark Ages (well, at least in Europe. The Dark Ages didn't really exist in the other parts of the world). But for what caused Rome to fall apart you would find Christianity so far down the list of reasons that you could spend several academic lifetimes detailing the far more important reasons why Rome fell before you would even mention to your grandchild that he should tell his grandchild to look into Christianity as the reason.

The Dark Ages happened because civil order and structure fell completely apart as a result of Rome falling apart. Christianity had nothing, relatively speaking, to do with that. At the very end, yes, the Christian Church did resist and try to hold back the Renaissance period, but the other 800 years of the Dark Ages lasting 800 years again had little to do with Christianity and more to do with the lack of any nation strong enough to replace what Rome had provided - structure and order.

[Chizzang]

TROLL THREAD ALERT....

you almost got me SeattleGriz


(bastard)

[BlueHen86]

Christianity is the reason that the Roman Empire fell and the reason that we had a dark ages. It wasn't until scientists grew some balls and stood up to the Church that the Renaissance began.

And while our country was founded by Christians, don't forget: they came here trying to get away from other Christians.

Huh? The Roman Empire fell because of Christianity? So that whole slow slope of falling apart over centuries, that included the rich in Rome falling back into their luxury and gluttony and letting non-Romans fight their wars and build their empire, that included emperors being discarded at the whim of whichever army held sway, that included "barbarian" tribes becoming bigger and better equipped and more aggressive and being pushed into Roman lands by even bigger, better equipped, and more aggressive barbarian tribes, that included the Empire being just too strung out and to expansive and expensive to defend every part of it, all of that didn't matter and what really did was Christianity?

I'll grant you, Rome falling apart like it did did directly cause the Dark Ages (well, at least in Europe. The Dark Ages didn't really exist in the other parts of the world). But for what caused Rome to fall apart you would find Christianity so far down the list of reasons that you could spend several academic lifetimes detailing the far more important reasons why Rome fell before you would even mention to your grandchild that he should tell his grandchild to look into Christianity as the reason.

The Dark Ages happened because civil order and structure fell completely apart as a result of Rome falling apart. Christianity had nothing, relatively speaking, to do with that. At the very end, yes, the Christian Church did resist and try to hold back the Renaissance period, but the other 800 years of the Dark Ages lasting 800 years again had little to do with Christianity and more to do with the lack of any nation strong enough to replace what Rome had provided - structure and order.

A possible cause for the fall of the Roman Empire is that the Romans converted to Christianity and placed greater emphasis on the afterlife and as a result less emphasis on fighting and conquest on Earth, thus allowing the barbarians to gain an edge. You can tell your grandchildren whatever you want, you are clearly an expert on everything.

[BlueHen86]

Christianity is the reason that the Roman Empire fell and the reason that we had a dark ages. It wasn't until scientists grew some balls and stood up to the Church that the Renaissance began.

And while our country was founded by Christians, don't forget: they came here trying to get away from other Christians.

Why couldn't the renaissance have happened in the Arab world, or in India, or China, or in the Aztec, Inca, or Mayan civilizations? Are only white folks endowed by EVOLUTION with the ability to advance science?

The Dark Ages were ended by Christian leaders in Europe and reformers within the Church, by the way.

The cultures that you mentioned weren't in Europe. The Dark Ages and the Renaissance were primarily European phenomenon.

[JohnStOnge]

While derailing a thread is a much appreciated ability here in the Political forum, I have decided to start a thread that is to be full on ugliness (CS.COM Style), for I am tired of interjecting defense of Christianity in other's threads.

I will start this one off and say that Christianity is the best thing to ever happen to the Earth, and without it, the U.S. would not be the power that it is, nor would the World be as advanced.

I don't know if it is "the" best thing to happen but I definitely think it has been a net positive for Western Civilization. While I know historians frequently consider it a factor in the fall of Rome I don't think Rome would still be around today "if only" Christianity hadn't arisen. The timing may have been different but I think it would have fallen a long, long time ago. May have even fallen earlier. They had all sorts of things going on including poisoning themselves with drinking water carried by lead aqueducts.

Then after Rome fell I think the Catholic Church played a critical role in keeping the seed of Western Civilization alive. Here is one account of it:

http://www.metanexus.net/essay/medieval ... vilization" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

besides praying and working out their salvation and preaching the gospel, what else did monks pursue in those monasteries? The practical arts, agriculture were two of their most significant enterprises. They literally saved agriculture in Europe. They taught the folks how to cultivate the land, especially in Germany where they converted the wilderness into a cultivated country

From the monasteries of Saint Laurent and Saint Martin the monks redirected the waters of St. Gervais and Belleville to Paris. They taught people irrigation on the plains of Lombardy which has always been some of the richest and most productive in Europe. They constructed technologically sophisticated water-powered systems at monasteries which were hundred of miles away from each other. The monasteries themselves were the most economically effective units that had ever existed in Europe. Water-power was used to crush wheat, sieving flour, making cloth, and tanning. Not even the Roman world had adopted mechanization for industrial use to such an extent.

But there was one occupation of the monks which, perhaps more than any other, helped in the preservation of Western Civilization: that of the copying of ancient manuscripts. It begins in the sixth century when a retired Roman senator by the name of Cassiodorus established a monastery at Vivarium in southern Italy and endowed it with a fine library wherein the copying of manuscripts took center stage. Thereafter most monasteries were endowed with so called scriptoria as part of their libraries: those were rooms where ancient literature was transcribed by monks as part of their manual labor.

There is more but those are some of the highlights. I also think that the concept of unalienable rights as we know it today arose in association with Christianity. I don't think it was the only factor but I think that it was a key one. No way to ever know for sure but, whether Thomas Jefferson was a Deist or not, I think the concepts expressed in the Declaration of Independence were intimately associated with Christianity and I think even Jefferson's Deism, if he was indeed a Deist, was greatly influenced by it in terms of concepts of intrinsic right and wrong.