Hey Catholics...

[CAA Flagship]

My point is that much of America is either unemployed or underemployed outside of government workers. And the largest concentration of government workers is in the DC area. So it is not surprising that enrollment numbers are not declining there when it is in other areas (predominantly private sector workforce), including where I live.

Oh, I agree with that (although "much" of America isn't unemployed or underemployed - I'll be the first to say the economy is horrible right now, but even the full unemployment number is only around 14% or 15% - it's bad, but not as bad as your word would make it out to be).

Still, I'm amazed at the number of kids who go to Catholic schools in my area. Starting to see the local charter school take off as well. I'm not sure the public schools around me are used to the type of parents and families moving into the area - used to be very rural and very insular up where I live, with a large Mennonite population (among others). Differentiation in the schools (for both the top and bottom ends) hasn't been something that has been stressed up here before.

"Much" is not meant to mean "most". It is a relative term, similar to saying "a large quantity" or "a lot".

To 89's comment:
I currently live where we have one Catholic school that serves a population of about 150,000. My hometown in NJ has one that serves approx. 200,000. What do you think your ratio is?

[D1B]

DC suburbs will always do well until the federal goverment moves.

BTW, just checked and we have 27 Catholic grade schools in my county. I wonder if there are that many in Montana and Wyoming combined.

BTW, just checked and catholic school enrollment is half of what it used to be several decades ago.

....resume circle jerk

[89Hen]

Oh, I agree with that (although "much" of America isn't unemployed or underemployed - I'll be the first to say the economy is horrible right now, but even the full unemployment number is only around 14% or 15% - it's bad, but not as bad as your word would make it out to be).

Still, I'm amazed at the number of kids who go to Catholic schools in my area. Starting to see the local charter school take off as well. I'm not sure the public schools around me are used to the type of parents and families moving into the area - used to be very rural and very insular up where I live, with a large Mennonite population (among others). Differentiation in the schools (for both the top and bottom ends) hasn't been something that has been stressed up here before.

"Much" is not meant to mean "most". It is a relative term, similar to saying "a large quantity" or "a lot".

To 89's comment:
I currently live where we have one Catholic school that serves a population of about 150,000. My hometown in NJ has one that serves approx. 200,000. What do you think your ratio is?

We have 27 grade schools in my county and just under 1M people.

[CAA Flagship]

"Much" is not meant to mean "most". It is a relative term, similar to saying "a large quantity" or "a lot".

To 89's comment:
I currently live where we have one Catholic school that serves a population of about 150,000. My hometown in NJ has one that serves approx. 200,000. What do you think your ratio is?

We have 27 grade schools in my county and just under 1M people.

Damn.
Obama is really paying those government employees well.

[JoltinJoe]

BTW, just checked and we have 27 Catholic grade schools in my county. I wonder if there are that many in Montana and Wyoming combined.

BTW, just checked and catholic school enrollment is half of what it used to be several decades ago.

....resume circle jerk

A generation or two ago, Catholics were people of modest means who lived in urban areas. Because these areas tended to have poor public school systems, Catholics formed their own schools to educate their children.

Now, because of the great success of the Catholic education system, Catholics have moved up economically and the Catholic population is now centered in more prosperous areas with better public schools. Catholics today are not children of immigrants looking for a better life for their children. We have achieved what our grandparents dreamed for us. There is less a need for Catholic schools because Catholics, more and more, have access to better public schools today than in the past.

Contrary to your claim that Catholicism is dying, there are more Catholics today in the US (and in the world) than ever before, and there are over 25,000,000 Catholics at church on any given Sunday in the United States. Self-identified active Catholics who attend a mass at least once a month total nearly 45,000,000. Catholics are the most numerous of any religious group in America today, even outnumbering any single sect of Protestantism.

[89Hen]

We have 27 grade schools in my county and just under 1M people.

Damn.
Obama is really paying those government employees well.

BTW, that was only Catholic. We have tons more private secular schools on top of that.

[D1B]

BTW, just checked and catholic school enrollment is half of what it used to be several decades ago.

....resume circle jerk

A generation or two ago, Catholics were people of modest means who lived in urban areas. Because these areas tended to have poor public school systems, Catholics formed their own schools to educate their children.

Now, because of the great success of the Catholic education system, Catholics have moved up economically and the Catholic population is now centered in more prosperous areas with better public schools. Catholics today are not children of immigrants looking for a better life for their children. We have achieved what our grandparents dreamed for us. There is less a need for Catholic schools because Catholics, more and more, have access to better public schools today than in the past.

Contrary to your claim that Catholicism is dying, there are more Catholics today in the US (and in the world) than ever before, and there are over 25,000,000 Catholics at church on any given Sunday in the United States. Self-identified active Catholics who attend a mass at least once a month total nearly 45,000,000. Catholics are the most numerous of any religious group in America today, even outnumbering any single sect of Protestantism.

Try to stay on point, Joe. This is about catholic school enrollment.

Start another thread if you want to talk about how the church is growing.

[CAA Flagship]

Damn.
Obama is really paying those government employees well.

BTW, that was only Catholic. We have tons more private secular schools on top of that.

Yeah. We have a few other Christian based schools that are all smaller than the Catholic school, but collectively would be maybe twice as big.

But getting back to the connection to the Parish, we have a strange relationship. The priests will come to the school for weekday morning Masses in the small "Chapel". And I have seen them on campus to address the students preparing for First Communion. But that is the extent of their involvement with the school. No visits for religion classes or anything else that I have seen. I would think that a school associated with a Parish may be less expensive.
(I always get a kick out of seeing a priest sitting on the bench of athletic teams. I was at the NCAA basketball tournament when ODU beat Villanova in 3OT's in '95 and I saw the priest that was on the Villanova bench after the game in the concourse area. We had a brief conversation and he said that he loved being associated with the school and the basketball team.)

[89Hen]

(I always get a kick out of seeing a priest sitting on the bench of athletic teams. I was at the NCAA basketball tournament when ODU beat Villanova in 3OT's in '95 and I saw the priest that was on the Villanova bench after the game in the concourse area. We had a brief conversation and he said that he loved being associated with the school and the basketball team.)

Our priests occassionally come to CYO events. Only problem is we can't claim to God on our side, since both teams are Catholic.

[CAA Flagship]

(I always get a kick out of seeing a priest sitting on the bench of athletic teams. I was at the NCAA basketball tournament when ODU beat Villanova in 3OT's in '95 and I saw the priest that was on the Villanova bench after the game in the concourse area. We had a brief conversation and he said that he loved being associated with the school and the basketball team.)

Our priests occassionally come to CYO events. Only problem is we can't claim to God on our side, since both teams are Catholic.

Yeah, it only works against the non-believers.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYLTG8iU4N0[/youtube]

[bluehenbillk]

The decline in the Catholic school enrollments in the Philly area are two-fold in my opinion.

#1 - The Public schools all over southeastern PA with the exception of Philadelphia proper are largely better academically than the catholic school system. Mostly, it's an economics thing. I can explain it like this, if you're a teacher and Option A is go work somewhere - start low 30's, 5 years in you're making in the $50's and 15 years in you're making in the $90's or more. Option B is start at 30-ish, 5 years in you're making in the 40's and 15 years in you may make $60K. Well you're going to pick Option A if you're a good teacher & that's the public school option. Heck, districts like Lower Merion & Council Rock top out over 110K now.

#2 - The expense. My neighbors have 4 school age kids & spend $9,000/yr total to send their kids to grade school. They're going to do this through 8th grade & then put them back in the public school system b/c the closest PA Catholic HS is like 35-40 minutes away & costs about 8K per year right now. If they sent them into Delaware it'd be 11K & no bus service either for a school 30 min away. I, along with a lot of other people can think of ways to put an extra 9K to work for me....

[D1B]

The decline in the Catholic school enrollments in the Philly area are two-fold in my opinion.

#1 - The Public schools all over southeastern PA with the exception of Philadelphia proper are largely better academically than the catholic school system. Mostly, it's an economics thing. I can explain it like this, if you're a teacher and Option A is go work somewhere - start low 30's, 5 years in you're making in the $50's and 15 years in you're making in the $90's or more. Option B is start at 30-ish, 5 years in you're making in the 40's and 15 years in you may make $60K. Well you're going to pick Option A if you're a good teacher & that's the public school option. Heck, districts like Lower Merion & Council Rock top out over 110K now.

#2 - The expense. My neighbors have 4 school age kids & spend $9,000/yr total to send their kids to grade school. They're going to do this through 8th grade & then put them back in the public school system b/c the closest PA Catholic HS is like 35-40 minutes away & costs about 8K per year right now. If they sent them into Delaware it'd be 11K & no bus service either for a school 30 min away. I, along with a lot of other people can think of ways to put an extra 9K to work for me....

They'll be paying hundreds of millions in Joltin Joe fees and settlements to victims. Also, historically, priests and nuns taught and administered for little or no pay, now they don't because no one wants to be a priest or a nun anymore and parent are hesitant to allow their children, especially the boys, to be around those freaks. Catholic schools thankfully don't get tax dollars and they now have to hire professional teachers, hence the tuition increase.

[89Hen]

PA Catholic HS is like 35-40 minutes away & costs about 8K per year right now.

That's half of the cheapest Catholic HS around here. My son got into one that is $29k per year. I'm glad it wasn't his first choice.

[CAA Flagship]

PA Catholic HS is like 35-40 minutes away & costs about 8K per year right now.

That's half of the cheapest Catholic HS around here. My son got into one that is $29k per year. I'm glad it wasn't his first choice.

Here's the tuition at my kids' school.

Pre-K (3) Three Half Days $2,471
Pre-K (3) Five Half Days $3,650
Pre-K (4) Five Half Days $3,650
Pre-K (4) Full Day $7,235
Kindergarten – Grade 5 $10,295
Grade 6-8 $11,798
Grades 9 – 12 $12,534

[bluehenbillk]

Here's the tuition where my kids go:

ZERO

[GannonFan]

Here's the tuition where my kids go:

ZERO

I agree. Unless there's a fundamental difference in the quality of education I couldn't stomach paying that kind of money to send my kids to Catholic school. Heck, REC/CCD/Sunday school only costs about $150 per kid or so for the year so that's all I need to pay for the religious aspect piece of the education.

Like I said, I may reconsider when it comes to high school and how things look there versus a real good prep school, but for now, public school is plenty fine.

[CAA Flagship]

Here's the tuition where my kids go:

ZERO

I agree. Unless there's a fundamental difference in the quality of education I couldn't stomach paying that kind of money to send my kids to Catholic school. Heck, REC/CCD/Sunday school only costs about $150 per kid or so for the year so that's all I need to pay for the religious aspect piece of the education.

Like I said, I may reconsider when it comes to high school and how things look there versus a real good prep school, but for now, public school is plenty fine.

My grand plan:
Send my 2 boys to Catholic school through 8th grade.
Public High School after that.
House paid off when oldest begins Junior year.
Begin Vegas trips every two months.

[Grizalltheway]

I agree. Unless there's a fundamental difference in the quality of education I couldn't stomach paying that kind of money to send my kids to Catholic school. Heck, REC/CCD/Sunday school only costs about $150 per kid or so for the year so that's all I need to pay for the religious aspect piece of the education.

Like I said, I may reconsider when it comes to high school and how things look there versus a real good prep school, but for now, public school is plenty fine.

My grand plan:
Send my 2 boys to Catholic school through 8th grade.
Public High School after that.
House paid off when oldest begins Junior year.
Begin Vegas trips every two months.

You forgot:
Blow life savings in Vegas. Sell house, move into trailer.

[CAA Flagship]

My grand plan:
Send my 2 boys to Catholic school through 8th grade.
Public High School after that.
House paid off when oldest begins Junior year.
Begin Vegas trips every two months.

You forgot:
Blow life savings in Vegas. Sell house, move into trailer.

Can't blow life savings if it is tied up in the house that you killed yourself to pay for in 15 years while sending your kids to Catholic school. 5 years from today, I will have no mortgage and no tuition.

[grizzaholic]

My grand plan:
Send my 2 boys to Catholic school through 8th grade.
Public High School after that.
House paid off when oldest begins Junior year.
Begin Vegas trips every two months.

You forgot:
Blow life savings in Vegas. Sell house, move into trailer.

Jokes on you, he already lives in a trailer.

[CAA Flagship]

You forgot:
Blow life savings in Vegas. Sell house, move into trailer.

Jokes on you, he already lives in a trailer.

trailers. Plural. She's a double wide.

[bluehenbillk]

You forgot:
Blow life savings in Vegas. Sell house, move into trailer.

Can't blow life savings if it is tied up in the house that you killed yourself to pay for in 15 years while sending your kids to Catholic school. 5 years from today, I will have no mortgage and no tuition.

for 4 years anyway...then you get the mother of tuitions - unless you're kid(s) have mad ball skills

[D1B]

SMFH at abusive parents and the thousands of dollars and colossal effort it takes to brainwash children.

[D1B]

Fellas, here is a partial list of Delaware pedophile priest in the catholic church:

Nine (9) accused perpetrator priests assigned to parish:

St. Francis de Sales (Salisbury, Md.):

1. Cornely, Francis P. (1949-1950)
2. Power, Walter D. (1952-1954)
3. DeLuca, Francis G. (1958-1961)
4. Lind, Alfred J. (1960-1962)
5. Mackiewicz, Leonard J. (1970-1971)
6. Irwin, William E. (1976-1986)
7. McGovern, Joseph A. (deacon, 1978-1979)
8. Dudzinski, Edward F. (1983-1985)
9. Wiggins, Charles W. (1987-1991)

In addition, Rev. Harry D. Walker is accused of abusing
a boy in this parish, though the priest was not assigned here.



Eight (8) accused perpetrator priests assigned to parish:

Holy Cross (Dover, Del.):

1. Irwin, William E. (1966-1968)
2. Gardiner, Richard F. (11/1968-1972)
3. Vignola, Carmen D. (deacon, 1972; 1987-1989)
4. Mackiewicz, Leonard J. (1975-1976)
5. Clarahan, Eugene F. (1978-1983)
6. Weaver, Harry (1984-1985)
7. Martin, Kenneth J. (1989-1990)
8. Calamari, Paul D. (1999-2000) (from Archdiocese of New Orleans)



Six (6) accused perpetrator priests assigned to parish:

St. Mary Refuge of Sinners (Cambridge, Md.):

1. Carley, Edward B. (1948-1954)
2. Power, Walter D. (1957-1960; 1969-1979)
3. Cornely, Francis P. (1964-1969)
4. Dempster, Douglas W. (1967-1969)
5. Mackiewicz, Leonard J. (1972-1975)
6. McGovern, Joseph A. (1979-1980)



Five (5) accused perpetrator priests assigned to parish:

St. Ann (Wilmington, Del.)

1. Dreyer, Henry J. (1933-1937; 1967-1969 in res.)
2. Carley, Edward B. (1954-1962)
3. Walker, Harry D. (1967-1968)
4 . O’Brien, John F. (1969-1972)
5 . Vignola, Carmen D. (1972-1978)

Good Shepherd (Perryville, Md.)

1. Walker, Harry D. (1961-1963)
2 . Carley, Edward B. (1967-1970)
3 . Dempster, Douglas W. (1970-1971)
4 . Power, Walter D. (1983-1998 in res.)
5 . Clarahan, Eugene F. (1983-1987)

St. John the Baptist/Holy Angels (Newark, Del.)

1. Cornely, Francis P. (1950-1958)
2. Dempster, Douglas W. (1969-1970)
3. McGovern, Joseph A. (1983-1986)
4. Weaver, Harry (1987-1990)
5. Wiggins, Charles W. (1992-1993)

St. Mary Magdalen (North Wilmington, Del.)

1. Dudzinski, Edward F. (1978-1983)
2. Martin, Kenneth J. (1991-1997)
3. Rogers, Francis J. (1992-1995)
4. O’Brien, John F. (1997-2003)
5. Irwin, William E. (2001-2002)

Our Lady of Fatima (New Castle, Del.)

1. Irwin, William (1972-1976)
2. O’Brien, John F. (1972-1982)
3. Weaver, Harry (1982-1983)
4. Vignola, Carmen (1983-1984)
5. Wiggins, Charles (1985-1986)

St. Paul (Wilmington, Del.)

1. Dreyer, Henry J. (1930-1931)
2. Carley, Edward B. (1962-1964)
3. O’Brien, John F. (1962-1964)
4. Walker, Harry D. (1969-1970)
5 . Martin, Kenneth J. (1991)



Four (4) accused perpetrator priests assigned to parish:

St. Edmond (Rehoboth Beach, Del.)

1. Mackiewicz, Leonard J. (1957; 1972)
2. Cornely, Francis P. (1958-1962; 1974-1975)
3. Irwin, William E. (1964)
4. Gardiner, Richard F. (5/1968-11/1968)

Immaculate Conception (Elkton, Md.)

1. Irwin, William E. (1964-1966)
2. Dempster, Douglas W. (1966-1967)
3. Power, Walter D. (1979-1983)
4. Smit, Gerard C. (1987-1996) (from Diocese of Lake Charles, La.)

St. Elizabeth (Wilmington, Del.)

1. Lind, Alfred J. (1965-1966)
2. DeLuca, Francis G. (1966-1969)
3. Vignola, Carmen D. (1978-1983)
4. O’Brien, John F. (1982-1997)

Immaculate Heart of Mary (Liftwood, Del.)

1. Irwin, William E. (1970-1972 in res.)
2. Richardson, James E. (1971-1977)
3. Rogers, Francis J. (1981-1986)
4. Martin, Kenneth J. (1990-1991)

St. Matthew (Wilmington, Del.)

1. Harney, Peter P. (1959-1961)
2. Richardson, James E. (1965-1971)
3. DeLuca, Francis G. (1976-1989)
4. Rogers, Francis J. (1986-1989)

St. Michael the Archangel (Georgetown, Del.)

1. Dempster, Douglas W. (1962)
2. Walker, Harry D. (1963-1964)
3 . Mackiewicz, Leonard (1971-1972)
4 . Gardiner, Richard F. (1972-1974)

St. Helena (Bellefonte, Del.)

1. Power, Walter D. (1954-1957)
2. Harney, Peter P. (1959)
3. O’Brien, John F. (1964-1969)
4. Sarro, John A. (1990-1998)

Three (3) accused perpetrator priests assigned to parish:

Holy Spirit (New Castle, Del.)

1. Clarahan, Eugene F. (1967-1968 in residence)
2. DeLuca, Francis G. (1969-1976)
3. Wiggins, Charles W. (1997-2003)

Holy Family (Newark, Del.)

1. Irwin, William E. (1990-2001)
2. Wiggins, Charles W. (1994-1997)
3. Martin, Kenneth J. (1997-1998, in residence)

Immaculate Conception (Marydel, Md.)

1. Mackiewicz, Leonard J. (1958-1960)
2. Power, Walter D. (1960)
3. Dempster, Douglas W. (1979-1992)

St. Joseph on the Brandywine

1. Dreyer, Henry J. (1950-1966)
2. DeLuca, Francis G. (1989-1993)
3. Harney, Peter P. (1990-1993 in res.)

St. John the Beloved (Wilmington, Del.)

1. DeLuca, Francis G. (1961-1966)
2. Dempster, Douglas W. (1962-1966)
3. Gardiner, Richard F. (1974-1978)

Corpus Christi (Elsmere, Del.)

1. Clarahan, Eugene F. (1952-1960)
2. Harney, Peter P. (1961-1964)
3. Rogers, Francis J. (1980-1981 as deacon and 1995-2003)

Cathedral of St. Peter (Wilmington, Del.)

1. Carley, Edward B. (1964-1967 and 1970-1972)
2. Richardson, James E. (1977-1982)
3. Weaver, Harry (1983-1984)

St. Theresa of Avila (Port Deposit, Md.)
Mission of Good Shepherd

1. Dreyer, Henry J. (1931-1933)
2. Harney, Peter P. (1953-1956)
3. Walker, Harry D. (1961-1963)



Two (2) accused perpetrator priests assigned to parish:

St. Ann (Bethany Beach, Del.)

1. Walker, Harry D. (1963-1964)
2 . Gardiner, Richard F. (1972)

St. Benedict (Ridgely, Md.)

1. Harney, Peter P. (1968-1974)
2. Clarahan, Eugene F. (1987-1993)

St. Catherine of Siena (Wilmington, Del.)

1. Lind, Alfred J. (1962-1965)
2. McGovern, Joseph A. (1980-1983)

St. Thomas the Apostle (Wilmington, Del.)

1. Mackiewicz, Leonard J. (1960-1961 and 1967-1970)
2. Harney, Peter P. (1964-1968)

Our Lady of Good Counsel (Secretary, Md.)

1. Dempster, Douglas W. (1992-1993)
2. Wiggins, Charles W. (1993-1994)

Christ Our King (Wilmington, Del.)

1. Harney, Peter P. (1956-1958)
2. Cornely, Francis P. (1969-1974)

Holy Child (Wilmington, Del.)

1. Dempster, Douglas W. (1978-1979)
2. Martin, Kenneth J. (1998-2001 in res.)

Holy Name of Jesus (Pocomoke City, Md.)

1. Walker, Harry D. (1968)
2 . Power, Walter D. (1968-1969)

Holy Rosary (Claymont, Del.)

1. Mackiewicz, Leonard J. (1964-1967)
2. Rogers, Francis J. (1989-1992)

St. Elizabeth Ann Seton (Bear, Del.)

1. Gardiner, Richard F. (1978-1985)
2. Sarro, John A. (1983-1990)

St. Mary of the Assumption (Hockessin, Del.)

1. Irwin, William E. (1968-1970 and 1986-1990)
2. Calamari, Paul D. (1997-1999) (from Archdiocese of New Orleans)

St. Mary of the Immaculate Conception (Wilmington, Del.)

1. Clarahan, Eugene F. (1960-1966)
2. Walker, Harry D. (1968-1969)

St. Peter the Apostle (New Castle, Del.)

1. Clarahan, Eugene F. (1968-1978)
2. Calamari, Paul D. (2000-2003 in res.) (from Archdiocese of New Orleans)



One (1) accused perpetrator priest assigned to parish:


Parish of the Resurrection (Wilmington, Del.)

1. Wiggins, Charles W. (1986)

St. Luke-St. Andrew (Ocean City, Md.)

1. Gardiner, Richard F. (1985-1989)

St. John the Apostle (Milford, Del.)

1. Wiggins, Charles W. (1991-1992)

St. Hedwig

1. Mackiewicz, Leonard J. (1961-1964)

St. Anthony of Padua (Wilmington, Del.)ø
[Parish staffed by Oblates of St. Francis de Sales.]

1. Heckel, John, OSFS, assigned to St. Anthony of Padua (1960-1961)

St. Thomas More/University of Delaware campus chaplain (Newark, Del.)

1. Cornely, Francis P. (1962-1964)

St. Joseph (Middletown, Del.)

1. Vignola, Carmen D. (1984-1987)

St. Patrick (Wilmington, Del.)

1. Walker, Harry D. (1970-1972)

St. Polycarp (Smyrna, Del.)

1. Mackiewicz, Leonard J. (1985-1987)

Sacred Heart (Chestertown, Md.)

1. Power, Walter D. (1964-1968)

St. Dennis (Galena, Md.)

1. Carley, Edward B. (1982-1993)

Our Mother of Sorrows (Centreville, Md.)

1. Carley, Edward B. (1982-1993)

St. Christopher (Cape Charles, Va.)†

1. Dreyer, Henry J. (1937-1941)

No known accused perpetrator priests assigned to parish:

St. Joseph (Wilmington, Del.)p
St. Margaret of Scotland (Newark, Del.)
St. Paul (Delaware City, Del.)
Our Lady of Lourdes (Seaford, Del.)
St. Jude The Apostle (Lewes, Del.)
St. Christopher (Chester, Md.)
St. John Neumann (Berlin, Md.)
St. Mary Star of the Sea (Ocean City, Md.)
SS. Peter and Paul (Easton, Md.)

* Religious order priests serving at these CDOW parishes are generally not included.
† Parish is no longer part of Diocese of Wilmington.
p Parish staffed by Josephites until 1994, and then by Franciscans.
ø Parish staffed by Oblates of St. Francis de Sales.

[CID1990]

I used to like pie but now I like D.