Who Killed The Electric Car- GM Shut Down EV-1 Program

[expandspanos]

With gas going well above $4.00 a gallon here in California, it's a good time to reflect on the intentionally axed successful EV-1 Program. An electric car that proved too successful for the powers that be.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IENnSK8Q6nE[/youtube]

GM gets bailouts.. because GM is going along with the status quo.

[Chizzang]

Now I'm not fond of conspiracy theory stuff in general...
But I personally witnessed a small U.S based Hydrogen Fuel Cell company - of whom I knew all 35 employees - get bought out and simply shut down. Right here in the State of Washington

They we purchased in whole
And informed that "others" would be picking up their research right where they left off
Keep in mind these guys actually HAD A CAR that worked (to some degree) but they were at least (conservatively) 10 years ahead of the U.S. Department of Energy and NREL

about 45 days after the wholesale purchase was completed the company was completely shut down and vanished
As in GONE The building was even bulldozed and rebuilt into an office complex
and I am NOT KIDDING

The three scientists who were the founders all work at NIF in Lawrence Livermore now...
True Story

[JohnStOnge]

I didn't watch the whole thing. I got far enough to hear figures like 120 miles per day and 70 to 80 miles per charge. That is the problem. Me, personally, I am not going to buy a vehicle that can go less than 200 miles on a charge. Not going to happen. Most ordinary people in most of the country are going to have times when it would be a real inconvenience to have a car where you have to charge it up over hours after less than 200 miles.

With a gasoline powered vehicle you can go 300 or more miles on a tank then stop for 5 minutes and "recharge" the tank. Until someone develops an electric car with similar capability, people are not going to voluntarily buy it enough to make it profitable. Even the fact that, as the video indicated, California had to mandate certain percentages of electric cars tells you that they can't "make it" on their own.

[BlueHen86]

I didn't watch the whole thing. I got far enough to hear figures like 120 miles per day and 70 to 80 miles per charge. That is the problem. Me, personally, I am not going to buy a vehicle that can go less than 200 miles on a charge. Not going to happen. Most ordinary people in most of the country are going to have times when it would be a real inconvenience to have a car where you have to charge it up over hours after less than 200 miles.

With a gasoline powered vehicle you can go 300 or more miles on a tank then stop for 5 minutes and "recharge" the tank. Until someone develops an electric car with similar capability, people are not going to voluntarily buy it enough to make it profitable. Even the fact that, as the video indicated, California had to mandate certain percentages of electric cars tells you that they can't "make it" on their own.

Agreed, although it might work for multicar families. We have three cars, two of which are almost exclusively used for short trips.

[HI54UNI]

You're right. It is a conspiracy. Damn Stonecutters.





[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZI_aEalijE[/youtube]

[clenz]

I didn't watch the whole thing. I got far enough to hear figures like 120 miles per day and 70 to 80 miles per charge. That is the problem. Me, personally, I am not going to buy a vehicle that can go less than 200 miles on a charge. Not going to happen. Most ordinary people in most of the country are going to have times when it would be a real inconvenience to have a car where you have to charge it up over hours after less than 200 miles.

With a gasoline powered vehicle you can go 300 or more miles on a tank then stop for 5 minutes and "recharge" the tank. Until someone develops an electric car with similar capability, people are not going to voluntarily buy it enough to make it profitable. Even the fact that, as the video indicated, California had to mandate certain percentages of electric cars tells you that they can't "make it" on their own.

Agreed, although it might work for multicar families. We have three cars, two of which are almost exclusively used for short trips.

My wife drives 120 miles round a day to work and back....I drive 5.2 miles round trip.

200 miles would be great for me....Having to "recharge" my wife's vehicle every night would cost pretty close to the same in electricity as we pay for gas - mind you she gets 40mpg.

If more companies would look at what VW does with their TDI's it'd be great.

[grizfnz]

Now I'm not fond of conspiracy theory stuff in general...
But I personally witnessed a small U.S based Hydrogen Fuel Cell company - of whom I knew all 35 employees - get bought out and simply shut down. Right here in the State of Washington

They we purchased in whole
And informed that "others" would be picking up their research right where they left off
Keep in mind these guys actually HAD A CAR that worked (to some degree) but they were at least (conservatively) 10 years ahead of the U.S. Department of Energy and NREL

about 45 days after the wholesale purchase was completed the company was completely shut down and vanished
As in GONE The building was even bulldozed and rebuilt into an office complex
and I am NOT KIDDING

The three scientists who were the founders all work at NIF in Lawrence Livermore now...
True Story

$hit like that happens more often than you can imagine. Different subject matter, but I know a guy who in the early 90s wad working at a lab trying to find a cure (not a prolonged treatment) for HIV. They came up with something that was 100% successful in the killing the virus in a lab setting. Over the course of a weekend the lab was shutdown due to "lost funding" and when the employees showed up for work on Monday somebody had already boxed up any personal items from their offices and hauled their computers and paper files off site.
$hit like this pisses me off, instead of creating cures for disease or energy efficient vehicles, greedy fu$ks dictate that only expensive prolonged treatments and gas guzzling vehicles are allowed to be produced.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[Chizzang]

Now I'm not fond of conspiracy theory stuff in general...
But I personally witnessed a small U.S based Hydrogen Fuel Cell company - of whom I knew all 35 employees - get bought out and simply shut down. Right here in the State of Washington

They we purchased in whole
And informed that "others" would be picking up their research right where they left off
Keep in mind these guys actually HAD A CAR that worked (to some degree) but they were at least (conservatively) 10 years ahead of the U.S. Department of Energy and NREL

about 45 days after the wholesale purchase was completed the company was completely shut down and vanished
As in GONE The building was even bulldozed and rebuilt into an office complex
and I am NOT KIDDING

The three scientists who were the founders all work at NIF in Lawrence Livermore now...
True Story

$hit like that happens more often than you can imagine. Different subject matter, but I know a guy who in the early 90s wad working at a lab trying to find a cure (not a prolonged treatment) for HIV. They came up with something that was 100% successful in the killing the virus in a lab setting. Over the course of a weekend the lab was shutdown due to "lost funding" and when the employees showed up for work on Monday somebody had already boxed up any personal items from their offices and hauled their computers and paper files off site.
$hit like this pisses me off, instead of creating cures for disease or energy efficient vehicles, greedy fu$ks dictate that only expensive prolonged treatments and gas guzzling vehicles are allowed to be produced.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

I can only relay and comment my experience...and it was shocking
Considering that NREL still isn't (today) where these guys where technologically speaking pre-buy-out

And I keep in touch with two of the three main Scientists from the project and they both still to this day when they contact NREL regarding the progress on their "baby" say they have 'No Record" of their company or any of their work even though (GET THIS) several of their patents are still on record as purchased by a group funded by NREL

WOW..!!!! Just WOW

IN other words:
NREL funded the buy out - then just threw away or destroyed the information - and - they hold the patents and are doing nothing with them

[93henfan]

Money talks.

[bluehenbillk]

When did it get killed? They've had electric charging stations at King of Prussia mall now for at least a year....

[Cap'n Cat]

With gas going well above $4.00 a gallon here in California, it's a good time to reflect on the intentionally axed successful EV-1 Program. An electric car that proved too successful for the powers that be.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IENnSK8Q6nE[/youtube]

GM gets bailouts.. because GM is going along with the status quo.

Dear Dumbazz,
Some historical perspective here. GM also killed a world-renowned bus and electric trolley system in Los Angeles centuries ago and created the car culture that has fvcked us ever since. GM acts in its own interest, the public be damned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Mo ... conspiracy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



The General Motors streetcar conspiracy (also known as the Great American streetcar scandal) refers to allegations and convictions in relation to a program by General Motors (GM) and other companies to purchase and dismantle streetcars and electric trains in the 1930s and 1940s. Several of the major companies involved were convicted in 1949 of conspiracy to monopolize interstate commerce but were acquitted of conspiring to monopolize the ownership of these companies......and replace everything with their cars.....

[andy7171]

Centuries ago? Really?

[Cap'n Cat]

Centuries ago? Really?

[Gil Dobie]

Jimmy Carter killed the developement of safe nuclear waste. If not for Carter, we would have a nuke plant on every block just the the Frenchy's.

[JohnStOnge]

Just as an aside before I go on, viruses are not living things so you don't "kill" them. You "inactivate" them. See http://www.virology.ws/2004/06/09/are-viruses-living/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Having said that: Inactivating a virus in a lab setting is not difficult. Very easy. The problem is in finding something that will inactivate it in the body without doing serious damage to the body. The replicate inside of cells. You have to get to them. It's tough.

But the point is that the fact that someone was in a lab that was looking at a means of inactivating the HIV in a lab setting is not in itself remarkable. Doesn't mean they were anywhere close to finding a way to "cure" AIDS.

Viral diseases are notoriously difficult to "cure." In fact I don't think it's been done. Could be but I don't think so. Normally, the approach is to get the body's immune system to be able to effectively fight the virus. Immunization. Otherwise it's pretty much trying to manage and minimize the symptoms.

[JohnStOnge]

My wife drives 120 miles round a day to work and back....I drive 5.2 miles round trip.

200 miles would be great for me....Having to "recharge" my wife's vehicle every night would cost pretty close to the same in electricity as we pay for gas - mind you she gets 40mpg.

If more companies would look at what VW does with their TDI's it'd be great.

I don't know anything about VW TDIs but from my standpoint I don't want a vehicle I can't at any time drive hundreds of miles per day. My commute to work is 30 miles round trip. But at any time I might decide I want to go fishing with the trip involving 300 miles round trip or so. I don't want a vehicle I'm going to have to worry about stopping for substantial time to charge.

I really, really don't think the reason we don't have a bunch of electric cars around is the result of conspiracies by the car companies. I think that when you come right down to it cars with internal combustion engines are just far more convenient. They're just better vehicles to anybody who is not starting off from the standpoint of thinking about being an environmentalist.

[Ivytalk]

GM is losing thousands of dollars per car on the Volt, according to an MSN news story posted today. Costs 89K to produce one, and retail sticker starts at 39K. Sweetheart lease deals are costing GM still more. Production has been discontinued. GM bills customers another 2K for a charging unit. What a debacle.

[CID1990]

Now I'm not fond of conspiracy theory stuff in general...
But I personally witnessed a small U.S based Hydrogen Fuel Cell company - of whom I knew all 35 employees - get bought out and simply shut down. Right here in the State of Washington

They we purchased in whole
And informed that "others" would be picking up their research right where they left off
Keep in mind these guys actually HAD A CAR that worked (to some degree) but they were at least (conservatively) 10 years ahead of the U.S. Department of Energy and NREL

about 45 days after the wholesale purchase was completed the company was completely shut down and vanished
As in GONE The building was even bulldozed and rebuilt into an office complex
and I am NOT KIDDING

The three scientists who were the founders all work at NIF in Lawrence Livermore now...
True Story

Chizzang- I'm right there with you on the hydrogen technology... it is our future, but what remains to be seen is whether that future is 25 years away or 500.

Trust me and you can ask D because I gave him a ranting earful about it... what is going to determine when we make the jump depends on how long it is going to take the greenies to come off of their manic phobia if nuclear power. I could go on forever, but in short..,

We have the ability to produce perfectly safe small reactors. The Navy has done it for half a century. We cannot economically bust water with anything except nuclear. Relax the red tape on getting new reactors and we'll see those hydro cars in 25 years and there won't be a damn thing GM or anybody else can do about it.

[93henfan]

I don't know anything about VW TDIs...

Obviously.

FYI, the TDI is Audi/VW's moniker for their turbo direct-injected diesel engine, first introduced in the US in 1996. I've owned three of them: a '96 Passat wagon, an '06 Golf, and currently a '12 Passat sedan. GrizFantuckInUtah is also a big fan and owner of TDIs.

The latest common-rail clean diesel TDIs are some of the cleanest, most fuel-efficient vehicles on the road today.

While nobody in their right mind would drive like this hypermiling couple, they managed to get 84.1 mpg and 1,626 miles on one tank in their 2012 Passat:

http://wot.motortrend.com/couple-sets-n ... 02867.html

[Chizzang]

Now I'm not fond of conspiracy theory stuff in general...
But I personally witnessed a small U.S based Hydrogen Fuel Cell company - of whom I knew all 35 employees - get bought out and simply shut down. Right here in the State of Washington

They we purchased in whole
And informed that "others" would be picking up their research right where they left off
Keep in mind these guys actually HAD A CAR that worked (to some degree) but they were at least (conservatively) 10 years ahead of the U.S. Department of Energy and NREL

about 45 days after the wholesale purchase was completed the company was completely shut down and vanished
As in GONE The building was even bulldozed and rebuilt into an office complex
and I am NOT KIDDING

The three scientists who were the founders all work at NIF in Lawrence Livermore now...
True Story

Chizzang- I'm right there with you on the hydrogen technology... it is our future, but what remains to be seen is whether that future is 25 years away or 500.

Trust me and you can ask D because I gave him a ranting earful about it... what is going to determine when we make the jump depends on how long it is going to take the greenies to come off of their manic phobia if nuclear power. I could go on forever, but in short..,

We have the ability to produce perfectly safe small reactors. The Navy has done it for half a century. We cannot economically bust water with anything except nuclear. Relax the red tape on getting new reactors and we'll see those hydro cars in 25 years and there won't be a damn thing GM or anybody else can do about it.

agreed...
Check out what NIF is doing in Lawrence Livermoore..!
Makes a small scale nuke system look tame - Glenzer is pushing the envelope HARD

[89Hen]

hypermiling

I could never do it. I enjoying driving too much.

[93henfan]

hypermiling

I could never do it. I enjoying driving too much.

Same here.

Although, for this area (Montgomery County), there are way too many people who drive absolutely stupidly to no benefit. Traffic here moves in groups from light to light. It's inescapable. It's completely pointless to mash your gas or your brake pedal. You're just going to end up at the same place: the next light. Hell, even the squeaker, who slips under the yellow light still gets caught at the light after that. I just laugh at the imbeciles around here, using 50% more fuel than they have to and putting premature wear on their brakes and powertrain, and for what? To get to the next light first? Shrewd. This place is the land of the automatonic, idiotic driver. It's even worse than California, believe it or not.

Congratulations! You got to the red light first!!

[89Hen]

Hell, even the squeaker, who slips under the yellow light still gets caught at the light after that. I just laugh at the imbeciles around here, using 50% more fuel than they have to and putting premature wear on their brakes and powertrain, and for what? To get to the next light first? Shrewd.

I would agree, HOWEVER, there are a few lights on some of my communtes that if you do mash the pedal on green, you can make the next 6 lights and if you don't, you miss the very next one and several after that. But you have to be first in line at the red, otherwise you have no shot.