Invisible Obama

[GannonFan]

Did you vote fore McCain? How many jobs did he create? How many businesses did he run? If you want to say that Obama doesn't have good leadership skills, fine. But a good businessman doesn't neccessarily make a good POTUS.

Yes. I believe McCain has better leadership skills, probably derived from his military career.

But after all was said and done, did I think Obama was going to be this bad? No. And I'll bet most of the people that put any thought into a vote for him didn't think he was going to be this bad.

All I'm saying is that he was given a shot. It did not work out. Time for a new direction.
Maybe it didn't work out because of the combination with Pelosi, Frank and Reid. But those three aren't going away soon enough.

Said it before and I'll say again (and I was an Obama voter in 2008) - the Dems winning the supermajority in Congress in 2008 was probably the worst thing ever to happen to Obama - it gave way too much power to Pelosi and Reid, it put Obama in the odd position of being questioned if, even as President, he was even his own party's leader, and it moved them to focus almost solely on health care for that whole year. Not to mention that any concillatory tones about bi-partisanship were completely thrown out the window. 2010 was a pretty significant rebuke to that, considering it happened just two years after the electorate had gone so far in the other direction. I still wonder what kind of President Obama would've been had he not been so impacted by his own party and the Congressional powers that be at the time. Might have turned out different.

[BlueHen86]

That sounds clever, but really doesn't hold up to scrutiny. When you drive to work, do you look for the traffic jam? Do you intentionally drive the long way?

Life is more complicated than a Chinese fortune cookie.

Nice change of direction ploy. I am so glad you told me that life is more complicated than a Chinese fortune cookie. I am now really enlightened, still registered as a Democrat and voting for Republicans...

You quote a fortune cookie and then accuse me of changing direction. Nice.

When you go to someones house, do you go through the gate or do you climb over it? Just how crooked are you?

[UNI88]

Let's face it Donks. You guys don't know **** about jobs and the economy, and Obama is a poor excuse for a "leader".
If you were looking to hire a leader for your business and a guy with Obama's 2008 resume applied, would you hire him? Hell no you wouldn't. But many Americans did.

Did you vote fore McCain? How many jobs did he create? How many businesses did he run? If you want to say that Obama doesn't have good leadership skills, fine. But a good businessman doesn't neccessarily make a good POTUS.

I did not vote for McCain. I thought he was too temperamental to be a good POTUS. I also don't think the U.S. Congress is good training for the White House. Congressmen typically have a relatively small staff and can grandstand about big ideas but you don't really make day-to-day management decisions or administer anything. Romney is almost as much of a card-board cutout as Kerry was but at least he has actual management and leadership experience (Bain, Olympics & Mass). On paper, his resume his much more impressive than Obama, McCain, Bush, etc. Unfortunately for him he hasn't translated that experience into a persona and message that gives people confidence.

[ASUG8]

Did you vote fore McCain? How many jobs did he create? How many businesses did he run? If you want to say that Obama doesn't have good leadership skills, fine. But a good businessman doesn't neccessarily make a good POTUS.

I did not vote for McCain. I thought he was too temperamental to be a good POTUS. I also don't think the U.S. Congress is good training for the White House. Congressmen typically have a relatively small staff and can grandstand about big ideas but you don't really make day-to-day management decisions or administer anything. Romney is almost as much of a card-board cutout as Kerry was but at least he has actual management and leadership experience (Bain, Olympics & Mass). On paper, his resume his much more impressive than Obama, McCain, Bush, etc. Unfortunately for him he hasn't translated that experience into a persona and message that gives people confidence.

I mostly agree with you - Romney isn't a charismatic guy at all, but I don't think you have to have a Clinton type personality to be effective as POTUS. You can see where voting for a guy based on his ability to make a speech has gotten us. Mitt may struggle with some of the soft skills, but I believe he's probably a more pragmatic experienced decision maker than Obama. I knew BHO was highly inexperienced when he came into office, but his continued blame game of the prior administration eroded what little credibility I believed him to possess. Killing Bin Laden, using a teleprompter effectively and getting a half-baked healthcare plan through Congress doesn't scream "four more years" to me.

[BlueHen86]

I did not vote for McCain. I thought he was too temperamental to be a good POTUS. I also don't think the U.S. Congress is good training for the White House. Congressmen typically have a relatively small staff and can grandstand about big ideas but you don't really make day-to-day management decisions or administer anything. Romney is almost as much of a card-board cutout as Kerry was but at least he has actual management and leadership experience (Bain, Olympics & Mass). On paper, his resume his much more impressive than Obama, McCain, Bush, etc. Unfortunately for him he hasn't translated that experience into a persona and message that gives people confidence.

I mostly agree with you - Romney isn't a charismatic guy at all, but I don't think you have to have a Clinton type personality to be effective as POTUS. You can see where voting for a guy based on his ability to make a speech has gotten us. Mitt may struggle with some of the soft skills, but I believe he's probably a more pragmatic experienced decision maker than Obama. I knew BHO was highly inexperienced when he came into office, but his continued blame game of the prior administration eroded what little credibility I believed him to possess. Killing Bin Laden, using a teleprompter effectively and getting a half-baked healthcare plan through Congress doesn't scream "four more years" to me.

My guess is that if Romney wins he'll do a decent job, but he will also likely govern from the center, so many in the GOP will be mad at him for not being far enough to the right, and the left will dislike him because he's a republican.

[dbackjon]

@ Baldy - yes, dozens of Blue Dogs.

And Kaine heading the DNC - he is not a liberal by any stretch.


I know you think that anyone to the left of David Duke is a socialist, but that just shows you how far to the right your opinion is.


@Doormat - McCain, leadership? From Military? What, from being at the bottom of his class, from only NOT being kicked out because of who his daddy was?

@Gannon - Democrats only had a super majority for less than a month, due to Republicans trying to deny Al Franken his rightful seat, and Kennedy's death.

Combined with Conservative Dems like the Nelsons, there was little chance to get anything done.

[Grizalltheway]

Doormat.

[89Hen]

I know you think that anyone to the left of David Duke...

Jon showing credibility to the door once again.

[Grizalltheway]

Did you vote fore McCain? How many jobs did he create? How many businesses did he run? If you want to say that Obama doesn't have good leadership skills, fine. But a good businessman doesn't neccessarily make a good POTUS.

Yes. I believe McCain has better leadership skills, probably derived from his military career.

But after all was said and done, did I think Obama was going to be this bad? No. And I'll bet most of the people that put any thought into a vote for him didn't think he was going to be this bad.

All I'm saying is that he was given a shot. It did not work out. Time for a new direction.
Maybe it didn't work out because of the combination with Pelosi, Frank and Reid. But those three aren't going away soon enough.

Yeah, like conks ever 'gave him a shot'. They were determined to be obstructionist pricks from the start.

[BlueHen86]

Yes. I believe McCain has better leadership skills, probably derived from his military career.

But after all was said and done, did I think Obama was going to be this bad? No. And I'll bet most of the people that put any thought into a vote for him didn't think he was going to be this bad.

All I'm saying is that he was given a shot. It did not work out. Time for a new direction.
Maybe it didn't work out because of the combination with Pelosi, Frank and Reid. But those three aren't going away soon enough.

Yeah, like conks ever 'gave him a shot'. They were determined to be obstructionist pricks from the start.

I'm not a fan of Obama, but I don't think he's nearly as bad as the right would have you believe.

[CAA Flagship]

Did you vote fore McCain? How many jobs did he create? How many businesses did he run? If you want to say that Obama doesn't have good leadership skills, fine. But a good businessman doesn't neccessarily make a good POTUS.

I did not vote for McCain. I thought he was too temperamental to be a good POTUS. I also don't think the U.S. Congress is good training for the White House. Congressmen typically have a relatively small staff and can grandstand about big ideas but you don't really make day-to-day management decisions or administer anything. Romney is almost as much of a card-board cutout as Kerry was but at least he has actual management and leadership experience (Bain, Olympics & Mass). On paper, his resume his much more impressive than Obama, McCain, Bush, etc. Unfortunately for him he hasn't translated that experience into a persona and message that gives people confidence.

Let's face it, this election, much like the last one needed to, comes down to ONE issue - the economy/jobs. Nothing, and I mean nothing, else is a higher priority, nor should it be. Develop a strong economy and things like healthcare, infrastructure, tax reform, etc. can be easier to tackle. Taking on healthcare when Obama did was just plain ingnorant. The focus needs to be on the topic that most adversely affects the largest percentage of the population, period.

[UNI88]

I mostly agree with you - Romney isn't a charismatic guy at all, but I don't think you have to have a Clinton type personality to be effective as POTUS. You can see where voting for a guy based on his ability to make a speech has gotten us. Mitt may struggle with some of the soft skills, but I believe he's probably a more pragmatic experienced decision maker than Obama. I knew BHO was highly inexperienced when he came into office, but his continued blame game of the prior administration eroded what little credibility I believed him to possess. Killing Bin Laden, using a teleprompter effectively and getting a half-baked healthcare plan through Congress doesn't scream "four more years" to me.

My guess is that if Romney wins he'll do a decent job, but he will also likely govern from the center, so many in the GOP will be mad at him for not being far enough to the right, and the left will dislike him because he's a republican.

I agree with both responses. I have more faith in Romney from an economy/jobs perspective but I do worry about him (or any Republican) following the Bush model and being fiscally irresponsible while pushing a conservative social agenda. That's the worst of 2 worlds from my perspective.

I would also agree with you that Obama's presidency while a disappointment hasn't be an absolute disaster. And his failures can't just be laid at the feet of the GOP's obstruction. He was too willing to let Pelosi and Reid take the lead early in his term and when he did step up his offers of compromise were relatively hollow.

[Grizalltheway]

Yeah, like conks ever 'gave him a shot'. They were determined to be obstructionist pricks from the start.

I'm not a fan of Obama, but I don't think he's nearly as bad as the right would have you believe.

It's the same as when Bush was around-those who voted for him want to defend him at any cost, and those who didn't are determined to portray him as the Antichrist. There's absolutely no middle ground left in national politics.

[Chizzang]

I'm not a fan of Obama, but I don't think he's nearly as bad as the right would have you believe.

It's the same as when Bush was around-those who voted for him want to defend him at any cost, and those who didn't are determined to portray him as the Antichrist. There's absolutely no middle ground left in national politics.

Agreed...
Romney in Massachusetts was a Democrat (basically)
I mean after all he did implement the exact same healthcare plan Obama just implemented

[Baldy]

@ Baldy - yes, dozens of Blue Dogs.

And Kaine heading the DNC - he is not a liberal by any stretch.

I know you think that anyone to the left of David Duke is a socialist, but that just shows you how far to the right your opinion is.

Dozens? Try just a smidge over 2 dozen. They lost over half of their numbers in the last election.

Kaine?
I said the trained poodle...Wasserman-Schlitz. She is the head of the DNC, Einstein.

No, I think people like you, Chairman Mao, are socialists.
You are the perfect example of the "unless you agree with me type" we're talking about. I have said over and over again that I don't care if you get an abortion if some dude knocks you up, don't care if you want to spark one up in the privacy of your own home, and don't care if you marry your boyfriend, but you claim I'm some sort of right wing ideologue? What color is the sky in your fucked up world, jon?

[Baldy]

Yes. I believe McCain has better leadership skills, probably derived from his military career.

But after all was said and done, did I think Obama was going to be this bad? No. And I'll bet most of the people that put any thought into a vote for him didn't think he was going to be this bad.

All I'm saying is that he was given a shot. It did not work out. Time for a new direction.
Maybe it didn't work out because of the combination with Pelosi, Frank and Reid. But those three aren't going away soon enough.

Yeah, like conks ever 'gave him a shot'. They were determined to be obstructionist pricks from the start.

Gave him a shot?

Dude had the reigns of this country carte blanche for two fucking years. A super majority in the House and one vote shy of it in the Senate. There is no gotdamn excuses left. We all tried to tell you from the start, you just chose to act upon your emotions instead of common sense. #EpicFail

[kalm]

@ Baldy - yes, dozens of Blue Dogs.

And Kaine heading the DNC - he is not a liberal by any stretch.

I know you think that anyone to the left of David Duke is a socialist, but that just shows you how far to the right your opinion is.

Dozens? Try just a smidge over 2 dozen. They lost over half of their numbers in the last election.

Kaine?
I said the trained poodle...Wasserman-Schlitz. She is the head of the DNC, Einstein.

No, I think people like you, Chairman Mao, are socialists.
You are the perfect example of the "unless you agree with me type" we're talking about. I have said over and over again that I don't care if you get an abortion if some dude knocks you up, don't care if you want to spark one up in the privacy of your own home, and don't care if you marry your boyfriend, but you claim I'm some sort of right wing ideologue? What color is the sky in your fucked up world, jon?

I think Reid is a Blue Dog...So is Hilary...come to think of it, so is Obama.

Man there's a lot of misunderstanding in this thread.

[Baldy]

I think Reid is a Blue Dog...So is Hilary...come to think of it, so is Obama.

Man there's a lot of misunderstanding in this thread.

I agree, and most of it is in the post quoted above.

The only stated policy position of Blue Dog Democrats is fiscal conservatism. Please explain to me how and in what way Obama and Reid are fiscally conservative?

[kalm]

I think Reid is a Blue Dog...So is Hilary...come to think of it, so is Obama.

Man there's a lot of misunderstanding in this thread.

I agree, and most of it is in the post quoted above.

The only stated policy position of Blue Dog Democrats is fiscal conservatism.

Which also happens to be the stated policy of Republicans. How much in defense cuts and reduction of corporate subsides does Ryan call for again? Maybe we can back to conk spending under Bush?

[GannonFan]

@ Baldy - yes, dozens of Blue Dogs.

And Kaine heading the DNC - he is not a liberal by any stretch.


I know you think that anyone to the left of David Duke is a socialist, but that just shows you how far to the right your opinion is.


@Doormat - McCain, leadership? From Military? What, from being at the bottom of his class, from only NOT being kicked out because of who his daddy was?

@Gannon - Democrats only had a super majority for less than a month, due to Republicans trying to deny Al Franken his rightful seat, and Kennedy's death.

Combined with Conservative Dems like the Nelsons, there was little chance to get anything done.

Huh, less than a month? How do you figure? Franken took office on July 7th. Ted Kennedy died on Aug 25th and his replacement, Paul Kirk, was sworn in on Sept 25th. So the super majority was in effect for almost 2 months from the time Franken took office until Kennedy's death, and then was only on hiatus for a month until they filled Kennedy's seat. And Scott Brown didn't take office until February 4th, 2010. So how do you get "less than a month" from early July through late August (almost 2 months) and then from late September through early February (let's say 4 months for arguments sake). That's a good 6 months there with a supermajority. It's not a coincidence that the health care bill got passed during that time frame. Heck, if the supermajority wasn't such a big deal, why did the Dems go through all the steps to overturn the Massachusetts law so that they could get a Democrat back in the Senate seat as soon as possible? It seems like you're trying to revise history a bit on this.

[grizzaholic]

[Baldy]

I agree, and most of it is in the post quoted above.

The only stated policy position of Blue Dog Democrats is fiscal conservatism.

Which also happens to be the stated policy of Republicans. How much in defense cuts and reduction of corporate subsides does Ryan call for again? Maybe we can back to conk spending under Bush?

Nice edit. Try answering before asking.

BTW, learn the definition of a subsidy before asking a question that doesn't make any sense.

[DSUrocks07]

[AZGrizFan]

I don't care who you are, THAT'S funny.

[89Hen]