So, Arm The Syrian Rebels, Or What? Poll

[YoUDeeMan]

I'm human and make mistakes, I didn't intend to directly compare Syria's problems to an economic depression.

Having said that, I have stated several times they shouldn't be armed and even was mature enough to recognize my typo.

To start, again, they shouldn't be armed, we shouldn't arm them. However, if the UN votes to support the rebels and we are obligated to assist, then we should assist.

Will arming them affect us? Possibly, they could turn on us in the future if they are successful.

Will Not arming the affect us? Possibly. They could be successful and hold a grudge against us and work with groups like Al Qeada. These counties and factions hold grudges.

I can't predict the future but I can look at the past and make an estimate from that.

Cool...I'm human and can be an azzhole. And I can call myself an azzhole from a safe distance...just ask kalm.
Cripes, I'll probably wake up tomorrow, open up my laptop, read myself posting that I can be an azzhole, and wish that the tomorrow me was right next to the tonight me so that I could punch myself for insulting me.

In the meantime, not that it matters, I didn't pile on the love until after you posted a picture of a guy whose credentials included the fact that he had his head in the sand. I know there are consequences...something I still don't think you realize...but, frankly, I'm tired of people running around saying the sky is falling and that the U.S. has to stick their hands into every hornet's nest because....SOMETHING....will happen.

F -that. America sitting this one out would be a good thing. Europe tried to grow up and flex their muscles with Libya...although they needed a lot of our help doing the tough initial job of suppressing the opposition to our air support. Of course, Libya is splt and there is no sign that it will ever be unified again...or peaceful again...not that things like that matter to those who went in to assist.

Let Europe and Turkey do it again in Syria...with the Arab League.

[kalm]

I'm human and make mistakes, I didn't intend to directly compare Syria's problems to an economic depression.

Having said that, I have stated several times they shouldn't be armed and even was mature enough to recognize my typo.

To start, again, they shouldn't be armed, we shouldn't arm them. However, if the UN votes to support the rebels and we are obligated to assist, then we should assist.

Will arming them affect us? Possibly, they could turn on us in the future if they are successful.

Will Not arming the affect us? Possibly. They could be successful and hold a grudge against us and work with groups like Al Qeada. These counties and factions hold grudges.

I can't predict the future but I can look at the past and make an estimate from that.

Cool...I'm human and can be an azzhole. And I can call myself an azzhole from a safe distance...just ask kalm.
Cripes, I'll probably wake up tomorrow, open up my laptop, read myself posting that I can be an azzhole, and wish that the tomorrow me was right next to the tonight me so that I could punch myself for insulting me.

Typical self loathing, hit and run, wishy washy lib.

[Ibanez]

I'm human and make mistakes, I didn't intend to directly compare Syria's problems to an economic depression.

Having said that, I have stated several times they shouldn't be armed and even was mature enough to recognize my typo.

To start, again, they shouldn't be armed, we shouldn't arm them. However, if the UN votes to support the rebels and we are obligated to assist, then we should assist.

Will arming them affect us? Possibly, they could turn on us in the future if they are successful.

Will Not arming the affect us? Possibly. They could be successful and hold a grudge against us and work with groups like Al Qeada. These counties and factions hold grudges.

I can't predict the future but I can look at the past and make an estimate from that.

Cool...I'm human and can be an azzhole. And I can call myself an azzhole from a safe distance...just ask kalm.
Cripes, I'll probably wake up tomorrow, open up my laptop, read myself posting that I can be an azzhole, and wish that the tomorrow me was right next to the tonight me so that I could punch myself for insulting me.

In the meantime, not that it matters, I didn't pile on the love until after you posted a picture of a guy whose credentials included the fact that he had his head in the sand. I know there are consequences...something I still don't think you realize...but, frankly, I'm tired of people running around saying the sky is falling and that the U.S. has to stick their hands into every hornet's nest because....SOMETHING....will happen.

F -that. America sitting this one out would be a good thing. Europe tried to grow up and flex their muscles with Libya...although they needed a lot of our help doing the tough initial job of suppressing the opposition to our air support. Of course, Libya is splt and there is no sign that it will ever be unified again...or peaceful again...not that things like that matter to those who went in to assist.

Let Europe and Turkey do it again in Syria...with the Arab League.

I fully realize the consequences, believe me. ANd I agree with you on this

frankly, I'm tired of people running around saying the sky is falling and that the U.S. has to stick their hands into every hornet's nest because....SOMETHING....will happen

I don't think the sky is falling, I just understand the perception of America. I'm all for a country handling itself w/o worldwide intervention.

[Cap'n Cat]

Good debate, ladies.

[YoUDeeMan]

I know there are consequences...something I still don't think you realize...

I fully realize the consequences, believe me.

No. I realize that you think you realize the consequences, even if you haven't directly spelled them out, and I certainly know there are consequences, but my realization is that you, from your posts, don't seem to realize that I realize that there are consequences.

There are consequences from intervening and not intervening. I happen to believe that we should not intervene and that the resulting consquences of such non-intervention won't be any worse than intervening except for the accumulation of less money by some of our noblest companies that do busineses with our Defense Department and the defense departments of many other countries.

[YoUDeeMan]

Cool...I'm human and can be an azzhole. And I can call myself an azzhole from a safe distance...just ask kalm.
Cripes, I'll probably wake up tomorrow, open up my laptop, read myself posting that I can be an azzhole, and wish that the tomorrow me was right next to the tonight me so that I could punch myself for insulting me.

Typical self loathing, hit and run, wishy washy lib.

Goddammit, it's Bob!

Wait...I mean...goddammit, I wish I could go back and punch that sun-of-a-bvtch me that posted that crap.

Then again, to know me is to love me. I realize that I am in for some serious self-counseling today.

[Ibanez]

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts ... opposition" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Obama administration is moving to provide direct assistance to the internal opposition in Syria for the first time, marking a shift in U.S. policy toward a more aggressive plan to help oust President Bashar al-Assad.

Last week, a group of senior Obama administration officials met to finalize a package of options for aiding both the internal and external Syrian opposition, to include providing direct humanitarian and communications assistance to the Syrian opposition, two administration officials confirmed to The Cable. This meeting of what's known as the Deputies Committee of the National Security Council set forth a new and assertive strategy for expanding U.S. engagement with Syrian activists and providing them with the means to organize themselves, but stops short of providing any direct military assistance to the armed opposition.

For now, riskier options, such as creating a no-fly zone in Syria, using U.S. military force there, or engaging directly with the Free Syrian Army, are all still off the table. But the administration has decided not to oppose, either in public or in private, the arming of the rebels by other countries, the officials said

[Cap'n Cat]

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts ... opposition

The Obama administration is moving to provide direct assistance to the internal opposition in Syria for the first time, marking a shift in U.S. policy toward a more aggressive plan to help oust President Bashar al-Assad.

Last week, a group of senior Obama administration officials met to finalize a package of options for aiding both the internal and external Syrian opposition, to include providing direct humanitarian and communications assistance to the Syrian opposition, two administration officials confirmed to The Cable. This meeting of what's known as the Deputies Committee of the National Security Council set forth a new and assertive strategy for expanding U.S. engagement with Syrian activists and providing them with the means to organize themselves, but stops short of providing any direct military assistance to the armed opposition.

For now, riskier options, such as creating a no-fly zone in Syria, using U.S. military force there, or engaging directly with the Free Syrian Army, are all still off the table. But the administration has decided not to oppose, either in public or in private, the arming of the rebels by other countries, the officials said

GOBama!!!!!!

[Ibanez]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/01/us/syria- ... topstories" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

President Barack Obama has signed a covert directive authorizing U.S. support for Syrian rebels battling President Bashar al-Assad's forces, U.S. officials told CNN on Wednesday.

I knew it. I told you guys. We aren't arming them, but we're aiding them.

[TheDancinMonarch]

We lose without regard to who wins so I say arm both sides and hope that they both have excellent aim. The fewer of them left when it's over, the better for us.

[YoUDeeMan]

I knew it. I told you guys. We aren't arming them, but we're aiding them.

Congrats, your idiot card just got upgraded to Platinum!

Obama's decision to help the rebels is the worst kept secret in the world. Obama has shown time and time again that he is a pig-headed war monger who, when faces with opposition to his way of thinking, simply does what he pleases.

As far as not arming them...Eric Holder might as well be running the "funding" of the rebels.

Let me translate..."the U.S. Treasury Department approved a "license" allowing the Washington Syrian Support Group to provide direct financial assistance to the Free Syrian Army. The Washington-based representative of the Free Syrian Army is allowed to conduct financial transactions on the rebel group's behalf but is not allowed to send military equipment."

Send.

You know the difference between "send" and "purchase", don't you?

Hmmmm...maybe our government is acutally sending money to Syrian homemakers who were good at balancing their checkbooks. Their using the money to bake cookies for the boys at the front. And you must have missed the articles saying that we will be giving Syrian troop position information to the rebels. In other words, we are probably tranferring our intelligence data to the Syrian rebels through Daffy Duck walkie talkies and hot pink AM radios expecting that losely organized group of folks to then defeat the Syrian army. None of our "troops" are in Syria right now.

Cappy won't bother to recognize or apologize that Warbama is simply playing cowboy while catering to big business and the arms dealers.

Oh, and those nice rebels just executed 14 people...on film. And they hanged a civilian...on film.

[houndawg]

This is a tough one. If we give the Syrian rebels weapons, the weapons will migrate to al-Qaeda and their friends.



Obviously we should sell the weapons directly to al-Qaeda at a substantial mark up.


Wars are fought for money; here's one where we can get our snouts in the war-profits trough at very little risk to ourselves.

[Ibanez]

I knew it. I told you guys. We aren't arming them, but we're aiding them.

Congrats, your idiot card just got upgraded to Platinum!

Obama's decision to help the rebels is the worst kept secret in the world. Obama has shown time and time again that he is a pig-headed war monger who, when faces with opposition to his way of thinking, simply does what he pleases.

As far as not arming them...Eric Holder might as well be running the "funding" of the rebels.

Let me translate..."the U.S. Treasury Department approved a "license" allowing the Washington Syrian Support Group to provide direct financial assistance to the Free Syrian Army. The Washington-based representative of the Free Syrian Army is allowed to conduct financial transactions on the rebel group's behalf but is not allowed to send military equipment."

Send.

You know the difference between "send" and "purchase", don't you?

Hmmmm...maybe our government is acutally sending money to Syrian homemakers who were good at balancing their checkbooks. Their using the money to bake cookies for the boys at the front. And you must have missed the articles saying that we will be giving Syrian troop position information to the rebels. In other words, we are probably tranferring our intelligence data to the Syrian rebels through Daffy Duck walkie talkies and hot pink AM radios expecting that losely organized group of folks to then defeat the Syrian army. None of our "troops" are in Syria right now.

Cappy won't bother to recognize or apologize that Warbama is simply playing cowboy while catering to big business and the arms dealers.

Oh, and those nice rebels just executed 14 people...on film. And they hanged a civilian...on film.

I did say we will be involved and that we are now aiding them. So, i'm not sure why I am the idiot. Passing intel to the rebel and giving "non lethal" assistance there is no evidence of actually giving the rebels munitions (at least directly. If we through covert means then I wouldn't expect anyone outside that circle to really know.)

And yes, I know what the difference is between purchase and send. I can only give my opinion on whats been presented. I prefer not to indulge conspiracy theories or rhetoric. Don't be like YT and start name calling. Be better than that.

[YoUDeeMan]

I did say we will be involved and that we are now aiding them. So, i'm not sure why I am the idiot. Passing intel to the rebel and giving "non lethal" assistance there is no evidence of actually giving the rebels munitions (at least directly. If we through covert means then I wouldn't expect anyone outside that circle to really know.)

And yes, I know what the difference is between purchase and send. I can only give my opinion on whats been presented. I prefer not to indulge conspiracy theories or rhetoric. Don't be like YT and start name calling. Be better than that.

You are a history buff...then you should know what is going on...and not as a conspiracy.

We've always provided ways for people to get arms...it is what we do. The CIA has a recorded history of setting up fronts and funneling money for arms through so many different groups that it is almost looney to say otherwise. The arms don't get loaded up and sent directly to the conflict with, "sent directly from the U.S. Armed Forces and the U.S. President", but you can be sure that they are being sent with the money we provide....the purchase directly faciliated by our "contacts".

There is a reason the verbiage was choosen. It has always been that way.

And if you think we don't have armed people in Syria right now, actively assisting with the killing of Syrians, you are simply naive. Sure, they aren't "troops", just as we don't have "troops" in Iraq or Uganda...and we didn't have "troops" in Vietnam for so long. Our Administration calls anyone killed an enemy combatant...even if it is an unarmed 17 year old kid that had nothing to do with the Taliban or AG.

Semantics.

Change.

[Ibanez]

I did say we will be involved and that we are now aiding them. So, i'm not sure why I am the idiot. Passing intel to the rebel and giving "non lethal" assistance there is no evidence of actually giving the rebels munitions (at least directly. If we through covert means then I wouldn't expect anyone outside that circle to really know.)

And yes, I know what the difference is between purchase and send. I can only give my opinion on whats been presented. I prefer not to indulge conspiracy theories or rhetoric. Don't be like YT and start name calling. Be better than that.

You are a history buff...then you should know what is going on...and not as a conspiracy.

We've always provided ways for people to get arms...it is what we do. The CIA has a recorded history of setting up fronts and funneling money for arms through so many different groups that it is almost looney to say otherwise. The arms don't get loaded up and sent directly to the conflict with, "sent directly from the U.S. Armed Forces and the U.S. President", but you can be sure that they are being sent with the money we provide....the purchase directly faciliated by our "contacts".

There is a reason the verbiage was choosen. It has always been that way.

And if you think we don't have armed people in Syria right now, actively assisting with the killing of Syrians, you are simply naive. Sure, they aren't "troops", just as we don't have "troops" in Iraq or Uganda...and we didn't have "troops" in Vietnam for so long. Our Administration calls anyone killed an enemy combatant...even if it is an unarmed 17 year old kid that had nothing to do with the Taliban or AG.

Semantics.

Change.

I'm sure that the Rebels are being provided with munitions and I know the US has a history of doing so (Cuba, Afghanistan in the 1980's..) however I try not to speculate. It's all semantics, yes. But I try to avoid speculation. I realize what "covert" "non-lethal" assitance could mean.

Change? THe only thing that change in 2008 was the name on the door.

[Ivytalk]

And Kofi Annan has now run away, blaming everybody but himself for not being able to broker a peace deal.

Just send Morgan Freeman in his place.

[Ibanez]

And Kofi Annan has now run away, blaming everybody but himself for not being able to broker a peace deal.

Just send Morgan Freeman in his place.

I'm going to be pissed if God doesn't sound like Morgan Freeman.

[Ivytalk]

And Kofi Annan has now run away, blaming everybody but himself for not being able to broker a peace deal.

Just send Morgan Freeman in his place.

I'm going to be pissed if God doesn't sound like Morgan Freeman.

I'm going to be more pissed if He sounds like D1B.

[AZGrizFan]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/01/us/syria- ... topstories

President Barack Obama has signed a covert directive authorizing U.S. support for Syrian rebels battling President Bashar al-Assad's forces, U.S. officials told CNN on Wednesday.

I knew it. I told you guys. We aren't arming them, but we're aiding them.

Wow. Real covert.

[Ibanez]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/01/us/syria- ... topstories



I knew it. I told you guys. We aren't arming them, but we're aiding them.

Wow. Real covert.

well, not anymore. Haha

[CID1990]

This is a tough one. If we give the Syrian rebels weapons, the weapons will migrate to al-Qaeda and their friends.



Obviously we should sell the weapons directly to al-Qaeda at a substantial mark up.


Wars are fought for money; here's one where we can get our snouts in the war-profits trough at very little risk to ourselves.

Seriously? Weren't the liberals fond of pointing out how we armed and trained the Mujaheddeen who eventually became the Taliban?

Are we really that far behind the learning curve that we would arm people who will immediately be our enemies and state sponsors of terror the moment they take power?

The best course right now is to make it clear to other NATO countries that they need to contribute more, commensurate along the same per-GDP levels that we have been doing for the last 50 years. Let some of those "better than us" countries like Sweden or Holland or Spain take this one.

[BlueHen86]

This is a tough one. If we give the Syrian rebels weapons, the weapons will migrate to al-Qaeda and their friends.



Obviously we should sell the weapons directly to al-Qaeda at a substantial mark up.


Wars are fought for money; here's one where we can get our snouts in the war-profits trough at very little risk to ourselves.

Seriously? Weren't the liberals fond of pointing out how we armed and trained the Mujaheddeen who eventually became the Taliban?

Are we really that far behind the learning curve that we would arm people who will immediately be our enemies and state sponsors of terror the moment they take power?

The best course right now is to make it clear to other NATO countries that they need to contribute more, commensurate along the same per-GDP levels that we have been doing for the last 50 years. Let some of those "better than us" countries like Sweden or Holland or Spain take this one.

Or better yet, let them keep fighting. If they are fighting each other they are less likely to fuck with us.

We should cut a deal with the Russians, and agree to arm each side just enough to keep it going.

[houndawg]

This is a tough one. If we give the Syrian rebels weapons, the weapons will migrate to al-Qaeda and their friends.



Obviously we should sell the weapons directly to al-Qaeda at a substantial mark up.


Wars are fought for money; here's one where we can get our snouts in the war-profits trough at very little risk to ourselves.

Seriously? Weren't the liberals fond of pointing out how we armed and trained the Mujaheddeen who eventually became the Taliban?

Are we really that far behind the learning curve that we would arm people who will immediately be our enemies and state sponsors of terror the moment they take power?

The best course right now is to make it clear to other NATO countries that they need to contribute more, commensurate along the same per-GDP levels that we have been doing for the last 50 years. Let some of those "better than us" countries like Sweden or Holland or Spain take this one.

Yeah. Seriously.

[YoUDeeMan]

Yeah. Seriously.

But...what about all those jobs, you selfish bastard? Making arms, and selling them, is about as American as apple pie. there are probably some good union manufacturing jobs somewhere along the line in the arms business...much better than having our hard working middle class people on welfare.

[houndawg]

Yeah. Seriously.

But...what about all those jobs, you selfish bastard? Making arms, and selling them, is about as American as apple pie. there are probably some good union manufacturing jobs somewhere along the line in the arms business...much better than having our hard working middle class people on welfare.

Selfish? I was advocating selling the weapons for profit to support those jobs, as opposed to giving them to the rebels, ergo al-qaeda, fro free. Geez, if we're going to provide weapons for later use against us we might as well get the profit.