To be Pro-Creationism is to be Pro-Homosexual

[youngterrier]

ah yes, we're discussing two different sort of theories in evolution, group-selection and gene-centered evolution.

I'd like to remind you that the example you describe above doesn't necessarily translate to homosexuality. One's ability to organize and keep an eye out for certain characteristics doesn't necessarily translate to be a homosexual, as you can develop those things regardless of orientation.

With that said, some tendencies do develop in the sexes naturally (such as men being less selective with their sexual partners than females, males having a tendency to be more aggressive, etc) and there could be some evolutionary benefit to "blending" tendencies, such as a strong male being with females doing female things in a primitive society. How that would translate to homosexual tendencies in loving penises as opposed to vaginas I'm uncertain, but in general I like my OP on the subject as a solution better (but I'm not an expert, so don't take my word for it)

Hey YT, have you decided to go to cofc and be a fag, or to Wofford where you can freely practice metrosexualism?

My wallet told me to go to Wofford....and I am

[Chizzang]

Please follow along:
In creationism God created The natural order of all things = Nature
Since Homosexuality occurs naturally in the order of things = Occurs in Nature
God by definition is Pro-Homosexuality


Discuss...

I see you have started drinking again


Are you making the Greenville/Boone trip?

As a matter of fact I haven't had a drink in years - and - I look and feel fantastic (if I do say so myself)
I had indeed originally planned on going to the game in Boone and passing through Greenville etc. etc.
But as it turns out I'll be in Mexico at that time - with none other than the old battle ax
As I told T.O.G. a few days ago, after being there for 2 months she couldn't see herself being in Rome for 4 and half years, so she came back...

I've been enjoying telling everybody that "She came crawling back to me"

I'll miss you guys something fierce (I'm sure) but I'll try to find a way to overcome that

[JohnStOnge]

There's a general paradox to Christian theology. God created everything. Therefore God created evil. God created Lucifer. Moreover, he created Lucifer knowing what Lucifer was going to do because he knows everything ahead of time.

Basically, it does not follow that the fact that God created something necessarily means God favors something.

So, no, it doesn't follow that because God created homosexuals he favors homosexuality just like it doesn't follow that because God created psychopathy, which does occur in the natural order of things, he favors psychopathy.

[Chizzang]

There's a general paradox to Christian theology. God created everything. Therefore God created evil. God created Lucifer. Moreover, he created Lucifer knowing what Lucifer was going to do because he knows everything ahead of time.

Basically, it does not follow that the fact that God created something necessarily means God favors something.

So, no, it doesn't follow that because God created homosexuals he favors homosexuality just like it doesn't follow that because God created psychopathy, which does occur in the natural order of things, he favors psychopathy.

So this is the old Testament you're referencing here (right)
I love how 75% of the old testament is not taken seriously or literally until it's something needed to cover a loop hole
Frankly the cognitive dissonance is beyond ALARMING

Again:
Until The whole thing is taken literally (all 60 some odd of the books) instead of this & that / a little from here / a little from there / the whole thing is rubbish... This selective faith disorder is hysterical

[SeattleGriz]

There's a general paradox to Christian theology. God created everything. Therefore God created evil. God created Lucifer. Moreover, he created Lucifer knowing what Lucifer was going to do because he knows everything ahead of time.

Basically, it does not follow that the fact that God created something necessarily means God favors something.

So, no, it doesn't follow that because God created homosexuals he favors homosexuality just like it doesn't follow that because God created psychopathy, which does occur in the natural order of things, he favors psychopathy.

So this is the old Testament you're referencing here (right)
I love how 75% of the old testament is not taken seriously or literally until it's something needed to cover a loop hole
Frankly the cognitive dissonance is beyond ALARMING

Again:
Until The whole thing is taken literally (all 60 some odd of the books) instead of this & that / a little from here / a little from there / the whole thing is rubbish... This selective faith disorder is hysterical

Have you read the whole bible brother? I assume you have and am confused by your response. The bible is a history of how man acted and how not to act in the future. Nothing less, nothing more. It is those that would like to dictate their specific ideology of God onto others in which the issue resides.

On a separate note, when are you coming over for a little of this?

[Chizzang]

That looks NICE - can I bring the old ball and chain too..?
ahem* cough... and in the future while I'm trolling John St. Dingleberry, please do not interrupt

[YoUDeeMan]

There's a general paradox to Christian theology. God created everything. Therefore God created evil. God created Lucifer. Moreover, he created Lucifer knowing what Lucifer was going to do because he knows everything ahead of time.

Basically, it does not follow that the fact that God created something necessarily means God favors something.

So, no, it doesn't follow that because God created homosexuals he favors homosexuality just like it doesn't follow that because God created psychopathy, which does occur in the natural order of things, he favors psychopathy.

God created smallpox...ebola...malaria...nice stuff...knowing it would kills humans.

He didn't have to create those things...but he did...again, knowing it would make humans suffer and die.

So, if I put a few animals in a test environment, and inject them with things that will make the suffer...am I not responsible for their deaths? And if I were to intentionally put a human, infected with a deadly, highly contagious form of the flu, into an enclosed environment, and then introduce a few other unwitting people into that environment, that would make me a murderer, would it not?

But hey, as long as I told those people that needed to worship me or they would not get the antiote, I'd be OK, right...because they'd have the free will to make the choice to worship me. And, if I let them die anyway, at least they'd die thinking they might have a chance to go to Heaven...what else would they need to make them happy?

Woo-hoo! Religion is a great thing.

[YoUDeeMan]

Have you read the whole bible brother? I assume you have and am confused by your response. The bible is a history of how man acted and how not to act in the future. Nothing less, nothing more.

Uh, no.

The Bible is also a history of how God acted. Or did you forget those parts?

Nice guy, that God.

[BlueHen86]

So this is the old Testament you're referencing here (right)
I love how 75% of the old testament is not taken seriously or literally until it's something needed to cover a loop hole
Frankly the cognitive dissonance is beyond ALARMING

Again:
Until The whole thing is taken literally (all 60 some odd of the books) instead of this & that / a little from here / a little from there / the whole thing is rubbish... This selective faith disorder is hysterical

Have you read the whole bible brother? I assume you have and am confused by your response. The bible is a history of how man acted and how not to act in the future. Nothing less, nothing more. It is those that would like to dictate their specific ideology of God onto others in which the issue resides.

On a separate note, when are you coming over for a little of this?

The bible is a collection of stories, many of which are probably complete BS and almost none of which should be taken literally. The message of peace, love and understanding that Jesus (and Elvis Costello) taught is worthwhile, but getting caught up in the old testament or any literal translation of the bible is misguided.

It's like the story of the tortoise and the hare. The message is that slow and steady is often better than fits and starts. No sane person actually believes that a rabbit and a turtle had a race.

[SeattleGriz]

Have you read the whole bible brother? I assume you have and am confused by your response. The bible is a history of how man acted and how not to act in the future. Nothing less, nothing more. It is those that would like to dictate their specific ideology of God onto others in which the issue resides.

On a separate note, when are you coming over for a little of this?

The bible is a collection of stories, many of which are probably complete BS and almost none of which should be taken literally. The message of peace, love and understanding that Jesus (and Elvis Costello) taught is worthwhile, but getting caught up in the old testament or any literal translation of the bible is misguided.

It's like the story of the tortoise and the hare. The message is that slow and steady is often better than fits and starts. No sane person actually believes that a rabbit and a turtle had a race.

The point I was trying to make, was that in my opinion, the Bible speaks heavily to the consequences of your actions (good or bad). Hence my statement of, "history of how man acted and how not to act in the future."

On a separate note, I too wonder about the veracity of the stories. A good example in my opinion is the 2004 tsunami. We know it was an underwater earthquake, but some of the people that were affected believed it was punishment from God. I can only imagine what would have been thought if that happened 2000 years ago when they couldn't figure out the cause of a disaster.

[BlueHen86]

The bible is a collection of stories, many of which are probably complete BS and almost none of which should be taken literally. The message of peace, love and understanding that Jesus (and Elvis Costello) taught is worthwhile, but getting caught up in the old testament or any literal translation of the bible is misguided.

It's like the story of the tortoise and the hare. The message is that slow and steady is often better than fits and starts. No sane person actually believes that a rabbit and a turtle had a race.

The point I was trying to make, was that in my opinion, the Bible speaks heavily to the consequences of your actions (good or bad). Hence my statement of, "history of how man acted and how not to act in the future."

I too wonder about the veracity of the stories. A good example in my opinion is the 2004 tsunami. We know it was an underwater earthquake, but some of the people that were affected believed it was punishment from God. I can only imagine what would have been thought if that happened 2000 years ago when they couldn't figure out the cause of a disaster.

They would have claimed that it was God's wrath, and placed the story in the Old Testament.

[YoUDeeMan]

The point I was trying to make, was that in my opinion, the Bible speaks heavily to the consequences of your actions (good or bad). Hence my statement of, "history of how man acted and how not to act in the future."

I too wonder about the veracity of the stories. A good example in my opinion is the 2004 tsunami. We know it was an underwater earthquake, but some of the people that were affected believed it was punishment from God. I can only imagine what would have been thought if that happened 2000 years ago when they couldn't figure out the cause of a disaster.

They would have claimed that it was God's wrath, and placed the story in the Old Testament.

Who's to say it wasn't God's wrath?

He made tsunamis possible. You'd think he could have left that little detail out and avoided killing a lot of innocent people.

[BlueHen86]

They would have claimed that it was God's wrath, and placed the story in the Old Testament.

Who's to say it wasn't God's wrath?

He made tsunamis possible. You'd think he could have left that little detail out and avoided killing a lot of innocent people.

Jesus.

God's wrath is so old Testament. God 0.0 is a kinder, gentler God.

[JohnStOnge]

So this is the old Testament you're referencing here (right)
I love how 75% of the old testament is not taken seriously or literally until it's something needed to cover a loop hole
Frankly the cognitive dissonance is beyond ALARMING

Again:
Until The whole thing is taken literally (all 60 some odd of the books) instead of this & that / a little from here / a little from there / the whole thing is rubbish... This selective faith disorder is hysterical

The idea is that the old Testament and the New Testament are different "agreements." What was true in Old Testament (Covenant) times in terms of, for instance, what someone had to do to be in good standing with God, was no longer true once the New Testament (Covenant) took effect.

But what I'm talking about isn't that. You don't need to look at the Bible at all to see the paradox I'm talking about. Just think in general about the concept of a God who created everything and knows all that was, all that is, and all that will be and who also establishes what is good and what is evil. And hates evil.

[JohnStOnge]

God created smallpox...ebola...malaria...nice stuff...knowing it would kills humans.

He didn't have to create those things...but he did...again, knowing it would make humans suffer and die.

So, if I put a few animals in a test environment, and inject them with things that will make the suffer...am I not responsible for their deaths? And if I were to intentionally put a human, infected with a deadly, highly contagious form of the flu, into an enclosed environment, and then introduce a few other unwitting people into that environment, that would make me a murderer, would it not?

But hey, as long as I told those people that needed to worship me or they would not get the antiote, I'd be OK, right...because they'd have the free will to make the choice to worship me. And, if I let them die anyway, at least they'd die thinking they might have a chance to go to Heaven...what else would they need to make them happy?

Woo-hoo! Religion is a great thing.

One thing you have to bear in mind is that, in Christian theology, what happens while you're in the physical universe really doesn't matter except so far as it relates to you getting to "heaven." Though "prosperity Gospel" is preached at times it's not really consistent with Christian theology. In Christianity it's all about the afterlife. Most of the apostles suffered horribly and died at the hands of others. Early Christians were persecuted and tortured in many cases. It's not about being free of hardship and suffering in this life.

To me, the greater paradox is the spiritual one. God created a being, Lucifer or Satan or the Devil or whatever one wants to call him, that is evil and is entirely devoted to seeing to it that human souls don't make it to "heaven." Also God knows before someone is born whether or not that person is going to end up in "heaven" or not.

So what is the point? Why? That sort of thing.

Of course the obvious answer, from a Christian perspective, is that we are dealing with a being that is so far advanced beyond us that it's like comparing one of us to an Amoeba. A being that knows all and sees all that ever was, is, and ever will be. We can't possibly hope to understand what this being understands.

I know that's awfully convenient. But that's the ultimate fall back position.

[houndawg]

There's a general paradox to Christian theology. God created everything. Therefore God created evil. God created Lucifer. Moreover, he created Lucifer knowing what Lucifer was going to do because he knows everything ahead of time.

Basically, it does not follow that the fact that God created something necessarily means God favors something.

So, no, it doesn't follow that because God created homosexuals he favors homosexuality just like it doesn't follow that because God created psychopathy, which does occur in the natural order of things, he favors psychopathy.

You have no idea what "he" favors.

[JohnStOnge]

You have no idea what "he" favors.

If what you're talking about is what Christian theology says he favors, sure I do. I'd simply look at the New Testament; which is reasonably consistent. Or if I ran across an inconsistency I'd go with the Gospels.

I might run into some issues that don't come to mind right now but in general I don't think I'd have a lot of problems.

[YoUDeeMan]

One thing you have to bear in mind is that, in Christian theology, what happens while you're in the physical universe really doesn't matter except so far as it relates to you getting to "heaven." Though "prosperity Gospel" is preached at times it's not really consistent with Christian theology. In Christianity it's all about the afterlife. Most of the apostles suffered horribly and died at the hands of others. Early Christians were persecuted and tortured in many cases. It's not about being free of hardship and suffering in this life.

To me, the greater paradox is the spiritual one. God created a being, Lucifer or Satan or the Devil or whatever one wants to call him, that is evil and is entirely devoted to seeing to it that human souls don't make it to "heaven." Also God knows before someone is born whether or not that person is going to end up in "heaven" or not.

So what is the point? Why? That sort of thing.

Of course the obvious answer, from a Christian perspective, is that we are dealing with a being that is so far advanced beyond us that it's like comparing one of us to an Amoeba. A being that knows all and sees all that ever was, is, and ever will be. We can't possibly hope to understand what this being understands.

I know that's awfully convenient. But that's the ultimate fall back position.

That is where religion fails...despite Joe's rantings. you people just give up and say, "Oh well, God is good, and only good", despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

it is really quite simple, no matter how much people try to murk it up. If God is all powerful and all knowing, then God made man...and he made all evil...and knows he set people up for "failure", and then blames the people for their failures, and doesn't let them sit at the table in the end. To top it all off, he created guilt, so the kids would feel bad about their misbehaviors...the ones programmed into them by the father.

Wait, we have free will. We're supposed to thank him for his generosity and work even harder to love him when a child gets washed out to sea...by the tsunami he created and knew was coming but didn't bother to warn anyone.

You put anyone else in the position of God, and he gets sued, thrown into jail and executed (irony...it's what's for breakfast). But since he's God, you say, "Gosh, my kid just got killed by that dangerous cancer He created, but I'm sure I (and my kid) did something wrong to deserve this and I need to pray for his forgiveness and learn to love that murdering bastard."

[BlueHen86]

One thing you have to bear in mind is that, in Christian theology, what happens while you're in the physical universe really doesn't matter except so far as it relates to you getting to "heaven." Though "prosperity Gospel" is preached at times it's not really consistent with Christian theology. In Christianity it's all about the afterlife. Most of the apostles suffered horribly and died at the hands of others. Early Christians were persecuted and tortured in many cases. It's not about being free of hardship and suffering in this life.

To me, the greater paradox is the spiritual one. God created a being, Lucifer or Satan or the Devil or whatever one wants to call him, that is evil and is entirely devoted to seeing to it that human souls don't make it to "heaven." Also God knows before someone is born whether or not that person is going to end up in "heaven" or not.

So what is the point? Why? That sort of thing.

Of course the obvious answer, from a Christian perspective, is that we are dealing with a being that is so far advanced beyond us that it's like comparing one of us to an Amoeba. A being that knows all and sees all that ever was, is, and ever will be. We can't possibly hope to understand what this being understands.

I know that's awfully convenient. But that's the ultimate fall back position.

That is where religion fails...despite Joe's rantings. you people just give up and say, "Oh well, God is good, and only good", despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

it is really quite simple, no matter how much people try to murk it up. If God is all powerful and all knowing, then God made man...and he made all evil...and knows he set people up for "failure", and then blames the people for their failures, and doesn't let them sit at the table in the end. To top it all off, he created guilt, so the kids would feel bad about their misbehaviors...the ones programmed into them by the father.

Wait, we have free will. We're supposed to thank him for his generosity and work even harder to love him when a child gets washed out to sea...by the tsunami he created and knew was coming but didn't bother to warn anyone.

You put anyone else in the position of God, and he gets sued, thrown into jail and executed (irony...it's what's for breakfast). But since he's God, you say, "Gosh, my kid just got killed by that dangerous cancer He created, but I'm sure I (and my kid) did something wrong to deserve this and I need to pray for his forgiveness and learn to love that murdering bastard."

Your post reminds me of a movie called The Rapture that came out in 1991. All this bad stuff happens to Mimi Rogers' character thoughout the movie, but she continues to love God. Finally, at the end of the movie the rapture comes and all she has to do to get into Heaven is profess her love for God, but she is so pissed off about the bad stuff that has happened that she can't do it.

[YoUDeeMan]

Your post reminds me of a movie called The Rapture that came out in 1991. All this bad stuff happens to Mimi Rogers' character thoughout the movie, but she continues to love God. Finally, at the end of the movie the rapture comes and all she has to do to get into Heaven is profess her love for God, but she is so pissed off about the bad stuff that has happened that she can't do it.

I remember that movie...and good for her!

If a God exists, he should be tortured and executed for killing children...right after he is given a lot of rum and high fives for creating a woman's body. Crazy sonovabitch!

[kalm]

Mimi Rogers...cans.

[BlueHen86]

Mimi Rogers...cans.

[OL FU]

I see you have started drinking again


Are you making the Greenville/Boone trip?

As a matter of fact I haven't had a drink in years - and - I look and feel fantastic (if I do say so myself)
I had indeed originally planned on going to the game in Boone and passing through Greenville etc. etc.
But as it turns out I'll be in Mexico at that time - with none other than the old battle ax
As I told T.O.G. a few days ago, after being there for 2 months she couldn't see herself being in Rome for 4 and half years, so she came back...

I've been enjoying telling everybody that "She came crawling back to me"

I'll miss you guys something fierce (I'm sure) but I'll try to find a way to overcome that

Well good for you. we will miss you too. I am certain she came crawling back after you begged screamed kicked like a child and threatened to harm yourself

I'm happy for you and I am sure you are happy for you too.

[Gil Dobie]

Please follow along:
In creationism God created The natural order of all things = Nature
Since Homosexuality occurs naturally in the order of things = Occurs in Nature
God by definition is Pro-Homosexuality

Discuss...

God made Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve.

God made hands, so he is pro-Asexual

[JohnStOnge]

That is where religion fails...despite Joe's rantings. you people just give up and say, "Oh well, God is good, and only good", despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

First of all, it's not "you people" because I'm an agnostic. Secondly, you face a paradox of your own when you talk about God, good, and evidence to the contrary.

That's because if there is no God there is no good or evil. Yes, I know atheists have tried ad nauseam to come up with arguments for why there can be intrinsic good and evil without the "something else" outside setting the rules as to what constitutes good and evil. But all of the arguments fail.

You can't argue that there is no God because God does evil because if there is no God there is no distinction between good and evil to begin with. And yes I know there are people who think you can argue otherwise. But you really can't.