Thomas Paine on "you didn't build that"

[youngterrier]

Seems like two completely different statements to me.

Paine is basically saying you can't be wealthy without society involving division of labor. No one doesn't believe that.

Obama is basically saying you don't deserve any credit if you have a successful business. Spoken like someone who has never had to run a business. Simply having infrastructure and farmers to grow your food won't make you a successful entrepreneur.

Even though that isn't what he said........He said the business owners didn't build the roads, etc.

Context people. Context. editing a soundbyte can create some crazy gaffes but that doesn't mean that's what the speaker said.

[Chizzang]

Give up Terrier
Nobody on the RIGHT is actually interested in what was said - they are interested in creating more fear...
and it's worked great so far

[89Hen]

It's not to take away anything from Joe the Doctor's accomplishments...

That's where you step knee deep in bullshit.

[Skjellyfetti]

It's not to take away anything from Joe the Doctor's accomplishments...

That's where you step knee deep in bullshit.

It's true.

An average middle class American would not have the resources to be trained in modern medicine without outside assistance.

An average middle class American also isn't bright enough to complete the necessary training. So, nice job Joe the Doctor.

Doesn't take away from his accomplishments... and recognizes that it doesn't happen alone.

[89Hen]

Doesn't take away from his accomplishments...

How many times do you have to repeat it before you actually believe that?

[UNI88]

Give up Terrier
Nobody on the RIGHT is actually interested in what was said - they are interested in creating more fear...
and it's worked great so far

That's a two-way street. The LEFT does the same thing with Romney's comments. It works great for both sides, riles up the true believers on each side.

[youngterrier]

Give up Terrier
Nobody on the RIGHT is actually interested in what was said - they are interested in creating more fear...
and it's worked great so far

That's a two-way street. The LEFT does the same thing with Romney's comments. It works great for both sides, riles up the true believers on each side.

But President Obama isn't revolving his campaign around a fake gaffe....nor is MSNBC running the fake gaffe after being told its out of context.

The same can't be said for the Romney camp or for Fox News. One would be blind to ignore the bullshit that is political campaigns but in this particular case I think Romney is more in the wrong simply because said talking point is part of the news cycle and there seems to no effort to recognize foul play by said perpetrators.

[Skjellyfetti]

How many times do you have to repeat it before you actually believe that?

It's the truth. I'm sorry if it offends you.

[89Hen]

That's a two-way street. The LEFT does the same thing with Romney's comments. It works great for both sides, riles up the true believers on each side.

But President Obama isn't revolving his campaign around a fake gaffe....nor is MSNBC running the fake gaffe after being told its out of context.

The same can't be said for the Romney camp or for Fox News. One would be blind to ignore the bullshit that is political campaigns but in this particular case I think Romney is more in the wrong simply because said talking point is part of the news cycle and there seems to no effort to recognize foul play by said perpetrators.

And thus another believer defends his side while attacking the other.

[89Hen]

How many times do you have to repeat it before you actually believe that?

It's the truth. I'm sorry if it offends you.

It's your opinion. Sorry you don't know the difference.

[youngterrier]

But President Obama isn't revolving his campaign around a fake gaffe....nor is MSNBC running the fake gaffe after being told its out of context.

The same can't be said for the Romney camp or for Fox News. One would be blind to ignore the bullshit that is political campaigns but in this particular case I think Romney is more in the wrong simply because said talking point is part of the news cycle and there seems to no effort to recognize foul play by said perpetrators.

And thus another believer defends his side while attacking the other.

Some issues don't really have 2 sides. This microscopic issue is one of them.

I guess I'm a sheep because I recognize it and point it out

[89Hen]

And thus another believer defends his side while attacking the other.

Some issues don't really have 2 sides. This microscopic issue is one of them.

I guess I'm a sheep because I recognize it and point it out

No. You're a sheep because you can't recognize that both sides suck just as much.

[UNI88]

That's a two-way street. The LEFT does the same thing with Romney's comments. It works great for both sides, riles up the true believers on each side.

But President Obama isn't revolving his campaign around a fake gaffe....nor is MSNBC running the fake gaffe after being told its out of context.

The same can't be said for the Romney camp or for Fox News. One would be blind to ignore the bullshit that is political campaigns but in this particular case I think Romney is more in the wrong simply because said talking point is part of the news cycle and there seems to no effort to recognize foul play by said perpetrators.

It's all about spin and both campaigns are guilty of it to the nth degree.

How much mileage has Obama's campaign and related PACs gotten out of these ...
- "I like being able to fire people"
- "I'm not concerned about the very poor"

A huge part of Obama's campaign is taking Romney's Bain experience and portraying it as all about job destruction and wealth accumulation at the expense of the little guy. They take someone's words and past experience and position to their advantage regardless of what actually happened.

[youngterrier]

Some issues don't really have 2 sides. This microscopic issue is one of them.

I guess I'm a sheep because I recognize it and point it out

No. You're a sheep because you can't recognize that both sides suck just as much.

If I'm a sheep, at least I'm one that can read....my OP:

One would be blind to ignore the bullshit that is political campaigns but in this particular case I think Romney is more in the wrong simply because said talking point is part of the news cycle and there seems to no effort to recognize foul play by said perpetrators.

I guess I'm blindly following because I say in this instance Romney is in the wrong.

Keep on thinking the double think though, it's cute.

[youngterrier]

But President Obama isn't revolving his campaign around a fake gaffe....nor is MSNBC running the fake gaffe after being told its out of context.

The same can't be said for the Romney camp or for Fox News. One would be blind to ignore the bullshit that is political campaigns but in this particular case I think Romney is more in the wrong simply because said talking point is part of the news cycle and there seems to no effort to recognize foul play by said perpetrators.

It's all about spin and both campaigns are guilty of it to the nth degree.

How much mileage has Obama's campaign and related PACs gotten out of these ...
- "I like being able to fire people"
- "I'm not concerned about the very poor"

A huge part of Obama's campaign is taking Romney's Bain experience and portraying it as all about job destruction and wealth accumulation at the expense of the little guy. They take someone's words and past experience and position to their advantage regardless of what actually happened.

Never said they weren't...just that in this instance, the right fabricated a gaffe. The mentioned comments above stand alone (and would piss off the left anyway) , whereas the Obama "gaffe" was taken literally mid-sentence, so I don't think it's a fair comparison.

[89Hen]

No. You're a sheep because you can't recognize that both sides suck just as much.

If I'm a sheep, at least I'm one that can read....my OP:

One would be blind to ignore the bullshit that is political campaigns but in this particular case I think Romney is more in the wrong simply because said talking point is part of the news cycle and there seems to no effort to recognize foul play by said perpetrators.

I guess I'm blindly following because I say in this instance Romney is in the wrong.

Keep on thinking the double think though, it's cute.

What's cute is a 17 year old playing the sage card. You're a sheep because even when you come close to admiting both sides are just as bad, you quickly fall into "the other side is worse" pool.

[youngterrier]

If I'm a sheep, at least I'm one that can read....my OP:



I guess I'm blindly following because I say in this instance Romney is in the wrong.

Keep on thinking the double think though, it's cute.

What's cute is a 17 year old playing the sage card. You're a sheep because even when you come close to admiting both sides are just as bad, you quickly fall into "the other side is worse" pool.

Hyperbole and strawman much? I didn't say that the other side was worse, just that in this instance (as in fabricating a gaffe) one side is in the wrong more than the other.

I mean seriously, is your response to whenever someone with a certain political affiliation does something wrong that someone with the opposite affiliation is just as bad? No shit sherlock. You're arguing something no one is disputing.

Saying we're all assholes does nothing in assisting judgment of individuals on a case by case basis. In this particular case Romney is in the wrong. According to you, I'm a sheep for saying that. You're basically saying FUCK LOGIC!

[Skjellyfetti]

It's your opinion. Sorry you don't know the difference.

So, then tell me where I'm wrong.

Tell me how an average middle class American affords modern medical training without outside financial help.

[UNI88]

It's all about spin and both campaigns are guilty of it to the nth degree.

How much mileage has Obama's campaign and related PACs gotten out of these ...
- "I like being able to fire people"
- "I'm not concerned about the very poor"

A huge part of Obama's campaign is taking Romney's Bain experience and portraying it as all about job destruction and wealth accumulation at the expense of the little guy. They take someone's words and past experience and position to their advantage regardless of what actually happened.

Never said they weren't...just that in this instance, the right fabricated a gaffe. The mentioned comments above stand alone (and would piss off the left anyway) , whereas the Obama "gaffe" was taken literally mid-sentence, so I don't think it's a fair comparison.

I disagree. If you want someone to consider Obama's comment in context with his entire statement than you need to do the same for Romney and Romney's comments are understandable and defensible when taken in context.

"I like being able to fire people who provide services to me," Romney said at a Monday breakfast in New Hampshire, when talking about health care. "You know, if someone doesn't give me a good service that I need, I want to say, 'I'm going to go get someone else to provide that service to me.'"

In the remarks, about his belief in providing people with options, Romney -- who in Massachusetts enacted an individual health care mandate while governor -- spoke about the need to incentivize insurance companies.

"I want individuals to have their own insurance. That means the insurance company will have an incentive to keep you healthy. It also means if you don't like what they do, you can fire them," he said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162- ... d-service/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is a time people are worried. They're frightened. They want someone who they have confidence in. And I believe I will be able to instill that confidence in the American people. And, by the way, I'm in this race because I care about Americans. I'm not concerned about the very poor. We have a safety net there. If it needs repair, I'll fix it.
I'm not concerned about the very rich, they're doing just fine. I'm concerned about the very heart of the America, the 90, 95 percent of Americans who right now are struggling and I'll continue to take that message across the nation.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20 ... -poor?lite

How are these comments different than Obama's?

[89Hen]

It's your opinion. Sorry you don't know the difference.

So, then tell me where I'm wrong.

Tell me how an average middle class American affords modern medical training without outside financial help.

Go back and read what I posted. You're off target.

[89Hen]

What's cute is a 17 year old playing the sage card. You're a sheep because even when you come close to admiting both sides are just as bad, you quickly fall into "the other side is worse" pool.

Hyperbole and strawman much? I didn't say that the other side was worse, just that in this instance (as in fabricating a gaffe) one side is in the wrong more than the other.

I mean seriously, is your response to whenever someone with a certain political affiliation does something wrong that someone with the opposite affiliation is just as bad? No shit sherlock. You're arguing something no one is disputing.

Saying we're all assholes does nothing in assisting judgment of individuals on a case by case basis. In this particular case Romney is in the wrong. According to you, I'm a sheep for saying that. You're basically saying FUCK LOGIC!

No. You're a sheep beacuse you can't ever stop at "Both sides are wrong.". You always have to add the * of the other side being worse.

[AZGrizFan]

It's not to take away anything from Joe the Doctor's accomplishments. But, without a government... we'd be treating cancer with incense and incantations... and Joe the Shaman would be paid in chickens.

Yes. Yes. Thank GOD for our wonderful, benevolent government...there to take care of us all.

[youngterrier]

Never said they weren't...just that in this instance, the right fabricated a gaffe. The mentioned comments above stand alone (and would piss off the left anyway) , whereas the Obama "gaffe" was taken literally mid-sentence, so I don't think it's a fair comparison.

I disagree. If you want someone to consider Obama's comment in context with his entire statement than you need to do the same for Romney and Romney's comments are understandable and defensible when taken in context.

"I like being able to fire people who provide services to me," Romney said at a Monday breakfast in New Hampshire, when talking about health care. "You know, if someone doesn't give me a good service that I need, I want to say, 'I'm going to go get someone else to provide that service to me.'"

In the remarks, about his belief in providing people with options, Romney -- who in Massachusetts enacted an individual health care mandate while governor -- spoke about the need to incentivize insurance companies.

"I want individuals to have their own insurance. That means the insurance company will have an incentive to keep you healthy. It also means if you don't like what they do, you can fire them," he said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162- ... d-service/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is a time people are worried. They're frightened. They want someone who they have confidence in. And I believe I will be able to instill that confidence in the American people. And, by the way, I'm in this race because I care about Americans. I'm not concerned about the very poor. We have a safety net there. If it needs repair, I'll fix it.
I'm not concerned about the very rich, they're doing just fine. I'm concerned about the very heart of the America, the 90, 95 percent of Americans who right now are struggling and I'll continue to take that message across the nation.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20 ... -poor?lite

How are these comments different than Obama's?

2 things:
1) Said quotes aren't necessarily out of context, granted the rationalization and continued quotation makes it sound more reasonable, but there's a difference between removing a rationalization and spinning it for your intended political purposes and completely making up a gaffe that isn't there.

2)I will accept that I'm somewhat wrong here from my original position

[youngterrier]

Hyperbole and strawman much? I didn't say that the other side was worse, just that in this instance (as in fabricating a gaffe) one side is in the wrong more than the other.

I mean seriously, is your response to whenever someone with a certain political affiliation does something wrong that someone with the opposite affiliation is just as bad? No shit sherlock. You're arguing something no one is disputing.

Saying we're all assholes does nothing in assisting judgment of individuals on a case by case basis. In this particular case Romney is in the wrong. According to you, I'm a sheep for saying that. You're basically saying FUCK LOGIC!

No. You're a sheep beacuse you can't ever stop at "Both sides are wrong.". You always have to add the * of the other side being worse.

You really are a neanderthal aren't you?

I admit when I'm wrong, as I did in this thread already. The extent of your posting is vague comments about how someone is wrong and that's it. Anyone can do that.

[89Hen]

No. You're a sheep beacuse you can't ever stop at "Both sides are wrong.". You always have to add the * of the other side being worse.

You really are a neanderthal aren't you?

I admit when I'm wrong, as I did in this thread already. The extent of your posting is vague comments about how someone is wrong and that's it. Anyone can do that.

Nothing vague about it. I've been pretty darn specific.