Finally...TAX Churches

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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by Chizzang »

89Hen wrote:
polsongrizz wrote:And as you mentioned above, most are now giving political advice to their members which should void any and all tax exempt status they had.
So is it just groups with which you don't agree that should lose it?

http://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/ ... us-760.htm

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/campaigns/actions/

http://www.nrapvf.org/
I don't see why any of those organizations or churches should be un-taxed..?
they are all politically motivated (period) no tax exemption (period)
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Finally...TAX Churches

Post by Col Hogan »

Chizzang wrote:
I don't see why any of those organizations or churches should be un-taxed..?
they are all politically motivated (period) no tax exemption (period)
So, one persons religion is another persons politics...

I, for example, oppose abortion and the death penalty on religious/moral grounds...but when I espouse that position I'm given a political label in places like....THIS!

If my faith preaches "Treat others as you want them to treat you"...that's religion...but if I get any more specific, like how I intend to treat, say, the unborn child, then why is that suddenly politics...
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by kalm »

Col Hogan wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
I don't see why any of those organizations or churches should be un-taxed..?
they are all politically motivated (period) no tax exemption (period)
So, one persons religion is another persons politics...

I, for example, oppose abortion and the death penalty on religious/moral grounds...but when I espouse that position I'm given a political label in places like....THIS!

If my faith preaches "Treat others as you want them to treat you"...that's religion...but if I get any more specific, like how I intend to treat, say, the unborn child, then why is that suddenly politics...
Is it just your opinion/belief or do you and your church actively try to change the law?
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote:What's so hard about separating out the charity from the church? For example, Lutheran Social Service's buildings should be exempt from property taxes. A Lutheran Chruch...should not.
They raise the money for the social services building in the church. It is way too intertwined to try and untangle what is charitable income and what is not. GF has it right.
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by D1B »

Col Hogan wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
I don't see why any of those organizations or churches should be un-taxed..?
they are all politically motivated (period) no tax exemption (period)
So, one persons religion is another persons politics...

I, for example, oppose abortion and the death penalty on religious/moral grounds...but when I espouse that position I'm given a political label in places like....THIS!

If my faith preaches "Treat others as you want them to treat you"...that's religion...but if I get any more specific, like how I intend to treat, say, the unborn child, then why is that suddenly politics...
Hey fuckhead, your church is a business - plain and simple. Men wearing dresses sell lies and salvation to morons like you and your unwilling children. You should be taxed just like Enron or Exxon or Madoff Investments is.

The evil perpetrated on humanity by YOUR fucking church far outweighs its "good" works.
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote:
kalm wrote:What's so hard about separating out the charity from the church? For example, Lutheran Social Service's buildings should be exempt from property taxes. A Lutheran Chruch...should not.
They raise the money for the social services building in the church. It is way too intertwined to try and untangle what is charitable income and what is not. GF has it right.
Not from a property tax standpoint at all. I don't think the rest would be either. It might keep a bunch of accountants an attorneys busy for awhile but it could be done. If that's too expensive/complicated, pay your taxes like everybody else.
Last edited by kalm on Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote:
kalm wrote:What's so hard about separating out the charity from the church? For example, Lutheran Social Service's buildings should be exempt from property taxes. A Lutheran Chruch...should not.
They raise the money for the social services building in the church. It is way too intertwined to try and untangle what is charitable income and what is not. GF has it right.
BTW, it's the same lame excuse for why we shouldn't regulate the financial markets more. :ohno:
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by D1B »

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote: They raise the money for the social services building in the church. It is way too intertwined to try and untangle what is charitable income and what is not. GF has it right.
Not from a property tax standpoint at all. I don't think the rest would be either. It might be keep a bunch of accountants an attorneys busy for awhile but it could be done. If that's too expensive/complicated, pay your taxes like everybody else.

Exactly, the freeloading fuck, Hen. Mr. Capitalism, except when his church is asked to pay. :ohno:

The bullshit sold every Sunday in their rapeatoriums is no different than a gallon of gas, a carton of cigarettes, a widget or psychic reading - and it should be taxed.
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote: They raise the money for the social services building in the church. It is way too intertwined to try and untangle what is charitable income and what is not. GF has it right.
Not from a property tax standpoint at all. I don't think the rest would be either. It might keep a bunch of accountants an attorneys busy for awhile but it could be done. If that's too expensive/complicated, pay your taxes like everybody else.
:lol: What makes you think all the accountants and attorneys would all be on the side of the church? I guess the good news is unemployment would go down as the IRS would have to hire thousands to figure out these tax codes. :thumb:
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote: They raise the money for the social services building in the church. It is way too intertwined to try and untangle what is charitable income and what is not. GF has it right.
BTW, it's the same lame excuse for why we shouldn't regulate the financial markets more. :ohno:
Well, I can tell you first hand, most of the regulations don't work. I'm knee deep in Frank-Dodd and I can say with absolute certainty that the consumer lost on that deal. :nod:
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote:
kalm wrote:
Not from a property tax standpoint at all. I don't think the rest would be either. It might keep a bunch of accountants an attorneys busy for awhile but it could be done. If that's too expensive/complicated, pay your taxes like everybody else.
:lol: What makes you think all the accountants and attorneys would all be on the side of the church? I guess the good news is unemployment would go down as the IRS would have to hire thousands to figure out these tax codes. :thumb:
Did I say that? :suspicious:

Hey you know what? My business has a charitable foundation. It's humble compared to some churches but it's raised about $40,000 in 4 years for a very worthy charity. Even my feeble mind can keep it separate from the rest of our activities. But I've poured a ton of blood, sweat, and tears into it and my customers really people really BELIEVE in it. In fact they really BELIEVE in my business...almost to the point of worship...

You know where I'm going with this :nod:
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote: :lol: What makes you think all the accountants and attorneys would all be on the side of the church? I guess the good news is unemployment would go down as the IRS would have to hire thousands to figure out these tax codes. :thumb:
Did I say that? :suspicious:
Here...
kalm wrote:If that's too expensive/complicated, pay your taxes like everybody else.
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote:Hey you know what? My business...
You can just stop there.
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by UNI88 »

I have no problem with churches not paying taxes on facilities used for religious or charitable purposes. As stated, if they use property for other purposes, say to rent out an apartment that would normally be used by a pastor/priest than they should be taxes on that unrelated business income.

I also don't have a problem with the pastor/priest making the case for church doctrine during a sermon. The Catholic Church is within it's realm to talk about abortion, homosexuality, helping the poor, etc. Their tax exemption should be at risk if they go beyond the worship service and actually engage in political fundraising or campaigning on church property. It's a fine line but it's there.
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote: :lol: What makes you think all the accountants and attorneys would all be on the side of the church? I guess the good news is unemployment would go down as the IRS would have to hire thousands to figure out these tax codes. :thumb:
Did I say that? :suspicious:

Hey you know what? My business has a charitable foundation. It's humble compared to some churches but it's raised about $40,000 in 4 years for a very worthy charity. Even my feeble mind can keep it separate from the rest of our activities. But I've poured a ton of blood, sweat, and tears into it and my customers really people really BELIEVE in it. In fact they really BELIEVE in my business...almost to the point of worship...

You know where I'm going with this :nod:
Hey, it's perfectly fine for D1B and YT and other religion haters out there to give their opinions on how they feel about religion. The power of free speech. But it's very clear, from the get go in this country through today and for the near future, that plenty of people in this country do not want government to intercede on religion or religious belief, and if they do, then to do it as minimally as possible. And for better or for worse, people see taxes as a way that government would do that.

Again, taxing a church building like an actual brick and mortar church is vastly different than taxing an empty office building that the same church owns and then rents out, at a profit, to a completely non-related, non-religious application, like the church in Spain renting out to a restaurant. It's easy and certainly well past due for Spain to tax that property that is being used in that manner and if we aren't doing that here then we should. It's an entirely different animal to tax the church itself for it's church building or any other building directly related to the practice or education of that religion. And right now, that's not going to change. No matter how much you dislike or disapprove of that particular religion or religion in general.
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by GannonFan »

UNI88 wrote:I have no problem with churches not paying taxes on facilities used for religious or charitable purposes. As stated, if they use property for other purposes, say to rent out an apartment that would normally be used by a pastor/priest than they should be taxes on that unrelated business income.

I also don't have a problem with the pastor/priest making the case for church doctrine during a sermon. The Catholic Church is within it's realm to talk about abortion, homosexuality, helping the poor, etc. Their tax exemption should be at risk if they go beyond the worship service and actually engage in political fundraising or campaigning on church property. It's a fine line but it's there.
Yup, that sounds about right. :thumb:
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by Ibanez »

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote: :lol: What makes you think all the accountants and attorneys would all be on the side of the church? I guess the good news is unemployment would go down as the IRS would have to hire thousands to figure out these tax codes. :thumb:
Did I say that? :suspicious:

Hey you know what? My business has a charitable foundation. It's humble compared to some churches but it's raised about $40,000 in 4 years for a very worthy charity. Even my feeble mind can keep it separate from the rest of our activities. But I've poured a ton of blood, sweat, and tears into it and my customers really people really BELIEVE in it. In fact they really BELIEVE in my business...almost to the point of worship...

You know where I'm going with this :nod:
You didn't do any of that. The Government did it for you. :coffee:
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote:
kalm wrote:Hey you know what? My business...
You can just stop there.
:lol:

Sometimes your like a lock down corner.

:notworthy:
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by kalm »

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote: You can just stop there.
:lol:

Sometimes your like a lock down corner.

:notworthy:
Only private organizations like mine provide meaningful social work. :dunce:

Oops, that was meant for ibanez. :oops:
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote:
kalm wrote:
:lol:

Sometimes your like a lock down corner.

:notworthy:
Only private organizations like mine provide meaningful social work. :dunce:

Oops, that was meant for ibanez. :oops:
You didn't provide anything.
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote:
kalm wrote:
Only private organizations like mine provide meaningful social work. :dunce:

Oops, that was meant for ibanez. :oops:
You didn't provide anything.
Here I go complimenting you and this is what I get in return? Typical conk....

You might be surprised. And at least we didn't rape any kids. :tothehand:
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by Chizzang »

Col Hogan wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
I don't see why any of those organizations or churches should be un-taxed..?
they are all politically motivated (period) no tax exemption (period)
So, one persons religion is another persons politics...

I, for example, oppose abortion and the death penalty on religious/moral grounds...but when I espouse that position I'm given a political label in places like....THIS!

If my faith preaches "Treat others as you want them to treat you"...that's religion...but if I get any more specific, like how I intend to treat, say, the unborn child, then why is that suddenly politics...
Actually I think the answer to that is far more simple than we're led to believe (by those who circumvent taxation)
If your religion is anti-abortion / answer / Don't have one
If your religion is anti-Death penalty / Answer / Don't kill anyone
As soon as you try to impose your religion on others / That's politics / at that point you are a political organization / and subject to TAXATION
Thus: Green Peace is a Political Organization and should be taxed / their will and their opinions are thrust onto others and attempt to persuade the masses - that's politics
Thus: Planned Parenthood is a Political Organization and should be taxed / their opinions are directed at the political arena / Thus they are a Political organization and should be taxed

Easy

:coffee:
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by Ibanez »

Chizzang wrote:
Col Hogan wrote:
So, one persons religion is another persons politics...

I, for example, oppose abortion and the death penalty on religious/moral grounds...but when I espouse that position I'm given a political label in places like....THIS!

If my faith preaches "Treat others as you want them to treat you"...that's religion...but if I get any more specific, like how I intend to treat, say, the unborn child, then why is that suddenly politics...
Actually I think the answer to that is far more simple than we're led to believe (by those who circumvent taxation)
If your religion is anti-abortion / answer / Don't have one
If your religion is anti-Death penalty / Answer / Don't kill anyone
As soon as you try to impose your religion on others / That's politics / at that point you are a political organization / and subject to TAXATION
Thus: Green Peace is a Political Organization and should be taxed / their will and their opinions are thrust onto others and attempt to persuade the masses - that's politics
Thus: Planned Parenthood is a Political Organization and should be taxed / their opinions are directed at the political arena / Thus they are a Political organization and should be taxed

Easy

:coffee:
How about, if you receive federal dollars, you are subject to taxes?
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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote: You didn't provide anything.
Here I go complimenting you and this is what I get in return? Typical conk....

You might be surprised. And at least we didn't rape any kids. :tothehand:
I guess the Obama humor was missed.

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Re: Finally...TAX Churches

Post by D1B »

89Hen wrote:
kalm wrote:
Here I go complimenting you and this is what I get in return? Typical conk....

You might be surprised. And at least we didn't rape any kids. :tothehand:
I guess the Obama humor was missed.

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Bitter conk fuck.
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