Smartest Conk in the Room

[kalm]

So I was watching last weeks episode of Maher. Bill and David Frum were talking about Jeb Bush recently saying that neither his father or Reagan would have been able to get any meaningful legislation passed the current group of Republicans. They would have been laughed out of the room.

It was an interesting discussion about the marginalized "sane" wing of the Republican party and David Frum came off as sounding very intelligent. You conks should be listening to him more.

[Wedgebuster]

Saw that as well. Really enjoyed the discussion with Joseph Stiglitz on his book The Price Of Inequality

really could relate to that guy, that interview was a hoot.

Yeah, even David Frum himself would be sacrificed on the alter of the teabaggers revolt these days. Republicans do not even know who the Republicans are anymore.

[Ivytalk]

Frum is OK. I don't agree with him all the time, but he's still basically a conservative guy.

Moyers is still on my 2012 Celebrity Deathwatch list, though.

[kalm]

Saw that as well. Really enjoyed the discussion with Joseph Stiglitz on his book The Price Of Inequality

really could relate to that guy, that interview was a hoot.

Yeah, even David Frum himself would be sacrificed on the alter of the teabaggers revolt these days. Republicans do not even know who the Republicans are anymore.

I wish he had Stiglitz on for an hour.

[JohnStOnge]

I think he's whacked if he thinks that Reagan wouldn't have been able to get any meaningful legislation passed with the current situation. Well...it's possible that the fact that the Democrats control the Senate would complicate things. But Ronald Reagan would do just fine in today's Republican Party. If they could clone him they'd be thrilled.

[kalm]

I think he's whacked if he thinks that Reagan wouldn't have been able to get any meaningful legislation passed with the current situation. Well...it's possible that the fact that the Democrats control the Senate would complicate things. But Ronald Reagan would do just fine in today's Republican Party. If they could clone him they'd be thrilled.

Like Maher pointed out, Reagan would be much closer to Kucinich than the current crop....

[JohnStOnge]

Like Maher pointed out, Reagan would be much closer to Kucinich than the current crop....

I think you know better than that.

[kalm]

Like Maher pointed out, Reagan would be much closer to Kucinich than the current crop....

I think you know better than that.

It was a joke.

Still...he was pro-collective bargaining, a serial tax raiser, a serial spender, and there's that whole amnesty thing so...I'm afraid there's a degree of truth to this.

Sorry...

[JohnStOnge]

This says it all about Ronald Reagan (only 10 seconds).

[youtube][/youtube]

Do you people SERIOUSLY believe the Tea Party would have had a problem...overall..with him. Sure, people can cherry pick and look at things he did as a matter of political reality. But there's no question as to where his heart was. He'd be FINE in today's Republican Party.

[Chizzang]

I think if his name was something else but his opinions were as they "actually were" in the 80's he'd have a hard time getting elected to anything...
The Tea Party would run him out of town (period)

The FANTASY ISLAND Reagan of the Dream Republican scenario never actually existed

but it's a pleasant fiction...

[JohnStOnge]

I think if his name was something else but his opinions were as they "actually were" in the 80's he'd have a hard time getting elected to anything...
The Tea Party would run him out of town (period)

The FANTASY ISLAND Reagan of the Dream Republican scenario never actually existed

but it's a pleasant fiction...

You have got to be kidding. I'm wondering: How old are you? Do you actually remember him?

The video below has been posted here before. You don't have to watch the whole thing. Just watch for a while. Maybe 6 or 7 minutes. The Tea Party would have LOVED this guy. He'd be getting standing ovations from them.

[youtube][/youtube]

People who argue that the Tea Party would have rejected Ronald Reagan are practicing historical revisionism. No way.

[SuperHornet]

So I was watching last weeks episode of Maher. Bill and David Frum were talking about Jeb Bush recently saying that neither his father or Reagan would have been able to get any meaningful legislation passed the current group of Republicans. They would have been laughed out of the room.

It was an interesting discussion about the marginalized "sane" wing of the Republican party and David Frum came off as sounding very intelligent. You conks should be listening to him more.

Who?

[kalm]

So I was watching last weeks episode of Maher. Bill and David Frum were talking about Jeb Bush recently saying that neither his father or Reagan would have been able to get any meaningful legislation passed the current group of Republicans. They would have been laughed out of the room.

It was an interesting discussion about the marginalized "sane" wing of the Republican party and David Frum came off as sounding very intelligent. You conks should be listening to him more.

Who?

You just made my point perfectly. Thank you.

[Chizzang]

I think if his name was something else but his opinions were as they "actually were" in the 80's he'd have a hard time getting elected to anything...
The Tea Party would run him out of town (period)

The FANTASY ISLAND Reagan of the Dream Republican scenario never actually existed

but it's a pleasant fiction...

You have got to be kidding. I'm wondering: How old are you? Do you actually remember him?

The video below has been posted here before. You don't have to watch the whole thing. Just watch for a while. Maybe 6 or 7 minutes. The Tea Party would have LOVED this guy. He'd be getting standing ovations from them.

[youtube][/youtube]

People who argue that the Tea Party would have rejected Ronald Reagan are practicing historical revisionism. No way.

2 points:
So by posting something 15+ years before he was in office - you're suggesting that after passing through the political system he was exactly the same guy that made that speech..?

secondly: Politicians say things to get elected
His political record looks NOTHING like the guy from that speech 15 years prior
Face it Johnny - the myth that is Reagan has almost nothing to do with the guy who got elected
Goldwater Republicans got thrown out 30 years ago
Where are they today..? Name a few..?

[OL FU]

The only difference between Reagan and the current crop of conservatives is that Reagan was also a practical politician who realized in the situation that he was in he had to compromise. For those who say he was a serial tax raiser, you miss the forest for the trees. Top marginal rate from 70% to 28% is not the sign of a tax raiser. He believed in spending money on defense and did. He cut a deal with the democrats for immediate tax increases and future spending decreases and the spending decreases never came.

Which brings us to another point, the last sentence is exactly why conservatives laugh when democrats offer that same scenario. The tax cuts would be immediate and the spending decreases would be over time and would once again never occur.

Reagan may not be the end all be all that some people portray him as, but as of the moment he is still the most influential president since FDR. We may argue over whether the top marginal rate should 35% or 39.5% but no one, unless they want to get laughed out of the room, argues for 70%.

[kalm]

The only difference between Reagan and the current crop of conservatives is that Reagan was also a practical politician who realized in the situation that he was in he had to compromise. For those who say he was a serial tax raiser, you miss the forest for the trees. Top marginal rate from 70% to 28% is not the sign of a tax raiser. He believed in spending money on defense and did. He cut a deal with the democrats for immediate tax increases and future spending decreases and the spending decreases never came.

Which brings us to another point, the last sentence is exactly why conservatives laugh when democrats offer that same scenario. The tax cuts would be immediate and the spending decreases would be over time and would once again never occur.

Reagan may not be the end all be all that some people portray him as, but as of the moment he is still the most influential president since FDR. We may argue over whether the top marginal rate should 35% or 39.5% but no one, unless they want to get laughed out of the room, argues for 70%.

Perhaps. But still, he raised taxes 11 times (mostly on the middle class) and spent more than all the presidents before him combined, kicking the can down the road for future generations. I'd hate to see what would've happened without the compromise.

Hardly tea party material.

But the myth marches on.

[Ibanez]

The only difference between Reagan and the current crop of conservatives is that Reagan was also a practical politician who realized in the situation that he was in he had to compromise. For those who say he was a serial tax raiser, you miss the forest for the trees. Top marginal rate from 70% to 28% is not the sign of a tax raiser. He believed in spending money on defense and did. He cut a deal with the democrats for immediate tax increases and future spending decreases and the spending decreases never came.

Which brings us to another point, the last sentence is exactly why conservatives laugh when democrats offer that same scenario. The tax cuts would be immediate and the spending decreases would be over time and would once again never occur.

Reagan may not be the end all be all that some people portray him as, but as of the moment he is still the most influential president since FDR. We may argue over whether the top marginal rate should 35% or 39.5% but no one, unless they want to get laughed out of the room, argues for 70%.

Perhaps. But still, he raised taxes 11 times (mostly on the middle class) and spent more than all the presidents before him combined, kicking the can down the road for future generations. I'd hate to see what would've happened without the compromise.

Hardly tea party material.

But the myth marches on.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrar ... d-history/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Even with the Reagan defense buildup, which, remember, won the Cold War without firing a shot, total federal spending as a percent of GDP declined from a high of 23.5% of GDP in 1983 to 21.3% in 1988 and 21.2% in 1989. That’s a real reduction in the size of government relative to the economy of 10%, a huge achievement

President Obama’s own 2013 budget shows that as a result federal debt held by the public will double during Obama’s four years as President. That means in just one term President Obama will have increased the national debt as much as all prior Presidents, from George Washington to George Bush, combined.

[Ibanez]

Ok, so on the Right we have Paul Ryans budget proposal and his ideas. What are we getting from the left?

[kalm]

Ok, so on the Right we have Paul Ryans budget proposal and his ideas. What are we getting from the left?

Oh there's plenty of good ideas from the left. But only Reaganomics "Lite" from the Democrats.

[Ibanez]

Ok, so on the Right we have Paul Ryans budget proposal and his ideas. What are we getting from the left?

Oh there's plenty of good ideas from the left. But only Reaganomics "Lite" from the Democrats.

The Republican Party is the Party of no ideas
THe Democrat Party is the Party of bad ideas.

Post the ideas. I found on online that i'm reading now.

[kalm]

Oh there's plenty of good ideas from the left. But only Reaganomics "Lite" from the Democrats.

The Republican Party is the Party of no ideas
THe Democrat Party is the Party of bad ideas.

Post the ideas. I found on online that i'm reading now.

Simon Johnson, Bill Black, Dylan Ratigan, Joseph Stiflitz all have good ideas but they are not Democratic politicians. It's the system that corrupts.

[Ibanez]

The Republican Party is the Party of no ideas
THe Democrat Party is the Party of bad ideas.

Post the ideas. I found on online that i'm reading now.

Simon Johnson, Bill Black, Dylan Ratigan, Joseph Stiflitz all have good ideas but they are not Democratic politicians. It's the system that corrupts.

[UNI88]

The only difference between Reagan and the current crop of conservatives is that Reagan was also a practical politician who realized in the situation that he was in he had to compromise. For those who say he was a serial tax raiser, you miss the forest for the trees. Top marginal rate from 70% to 28% is not the sign of a tax raiser. He believed in spending money on defense and did. He cut a deal with the democrats for immediate tax increases and future spending decreases and the spending decreases never came.

Which brings us to another point, the last sentence is exactly why conservatives laugh when democrats offer that same scenario. The tax cuts would be immediate and the spending decreases would be over time and would once again never occur.

Reagan may not be the end all be all that some people portray him as, but as of the moment he is still the most influential president since FDR. We may argue over whether the top marginal rate should 35% or 39.5% but no one, unless they want to get laughed out of the room, argues for 70%.

+1

The bolded part would get Reagan in trouble with the tea party however. Reagan worked with Tip O'Neill to pass legislation and keep the country running. I don't think the tea party would be in favor of Boehner or anyone else working with Obama to pass compromise legislation that tries to avert a budget crisis. Pelosi and Reid aren't any better though.

[Chizzang]

The only difference between Reagan and the current crop of conservatives is that Reagan was also a practical politician who realized in the situation that he was in he had to compromise. For those who say he was a serial tax raiser, you miss the forest for the trees. Top marginal rate from 70% to 28% is not the sign of a tax raiser. He believed in spending money on defense and did. He cut a deal with the democrats for immediate tax increases and future spending decreases and the spending decreases never came.

Which brings us to another point, the last sentence is exactly why conservatives laugh when democrats offer that same scenario. The tax cuts would be immediate and the spending decreases would be over time and would once again never occur.

Reagan may not be the end all be all that some people portray him as, but as of the moment he is still the most influential president since FDR. We may argue over whether the top marginal rate should 35% or 39.5% but no one, unless they want to get laughed out of the room, argues for 70%.

+1

The bolded part would get Reagan in trouble with the tea party however. Reagan worked with Tip O'Neill to pass legislation and keep the country running. I don't think the tea party would be in favor of Boehner or anyone else working with Obama to pass compromise legislation that tries to avert a budget crisis. Pelosi and Reid aren't any better though.

BINGO..!!! ^ above
AND:
I still can't get any Republicans to tell me who exactly is a Goldwater Republican holding an office right now..?

I can honestly say:
Were there a true Goldwater Republican movement - I would be the FIRST to join
Based on what we have in the Whitehouse right now and what the Right is doing to Republicans lately

[Ivytalk]

+1

The bolded part would get Reagan in trouble with the tea party however. Reagan worked with Tip O'Neill to pass legislation and keep the country running. I don't think the tea party would be in favor of Boehner or anyone else working with Obama to pass compromise legislation that tries to avert a budget crisis. Pelosi and Reid aren't any better though.[/quote

BINGO..!!! ^ above
AND:
I still can't get any Republicans to tell me who exactly is a Goldwater Republican holding an office right now..?

I can honestly say:
Were there a true Goldwater Republican movement - I would be the FIRST to join
Based on what we have in the Whitehouse right now and what the Right is doing to Republicans lately

One reason that it's so hard to find a Goldwater Republican these days is that a staple of that type of Republicanism, anticommunism, is pretty much gone from the radar screen. Most of the Goldwater Republicans have passed from the scene (Alan Simpson) or are on the outside looking in (maybe Jeb Bush).