Vatican in chaos, Vatican bank - "a haven of corruption"

[JoltinJoe]

I'm not a fan of Catholicism (I was born and raised Catholic, atteneded Catholic school K-12) but these are just allegations. The IOR has its history of scandel(1982?) but we have to look at each case differently. We all know D1b is baiting, he hears some Catholic did something, and he treats them like the Duke LAX team. Guilty before proven innocence (which he will never accept).

I'm not sure what are the "just allegations."

That some inside the bank were tied to bankruptcy fraud in 1982. True. Of course, no banking institution is ever completely free from scandal. Of note (or apparently not, since no reporter ever mentions), the Vatican Bank demonstrably did not involve itself with the creation, trading, insuring of asset-backed collateral or derivatives thereof, and scored no profits from these dirty investments which turned this world upside down. It is about the only sizable bank in the world with clean hands in that regard. Still waiting for the story on that.

Is the Vatican Bank secretive? Yes (although many of the reasons why it is secretive are pretty understandable, when rationally assessed). Should the Vatican Bank become more transparent in order to address post-9/11 international banking concerns? Yes. Are there people inside the Vatican resisting more transparency? Yes (although their motivations generally are not sinister). Might the Vatican be better off without the Vatican Bank? Debatable. It might seem more pure to do away with the Bank, although the divestiture of Vatican assets into accounts at numerous other financial institutions probably offers greater, not lesser, opportunity for scandal.

Is is true that Vatican Bank accounts are being used to launder money? Doubtful, and certainly not once instance has been proven.

The current "scandal" arises from an incident when funds in Vatican accounts at an Italian bank were frozen in 2010 due to an investigation into money laundering. The funds were unfrozen within a few days, but the incident underscored that present policies of the Vatican Bank do no comply with post-9/11 international banking norms instituted to prevent money laundering and the funneling of funds to terrorists. That doesn't mean, however, that money laundering has been occurring. It is amazing how facts get twisted beyond recognition any time you mention the Catholic Church.

[D1B]

I'm not a fan of Catholicism (I was born and raised Catholic, atteneded Catholic school K-12) but these are just allegations. The IOR has its history of scandel(1982?) but we have to look at each case differently. We all know D1b is baiting, he hears some Catholic did something, and he treats them like the Duke LAX team. Guilty before proven innocence (which he will never accept).

I'm not sure what are the "just allegations."

That some inside the bank were tied to bankruptcy fraud in 1982. True. Of course, no banking institution is ever completely free from scandal. Of note (or apparently not, since no reporter ever mentions), the Vatican Bank demonstrably did not involve itself with the creation, trading, insuring of asset-backed collateral or derivatives thereof, and scored no profits from these dirty investments which turned this world upside down. It is about the only sizable bank in the world with clean hands in that regard. Still waiting for the story on that.

Is the Vatican Bank secretive? Yes (although many of the reasons why it is secretive are pretty understandable, when rationally assessed). Should the Vatican Bank become more transparent in order to address post-9/11 international banking concerns? Yes. Are there people inside the Vatican resisting more transparency? Yes (although their motivations generally are not sinister). Might the Vatican be better off without the Vatican Bank? Debatable. It might seem more pure to do away with the Bank, although the divestiture of Vatican assets into accounts at numerous other financial institutions probably offers greater, not lesser, opportunity for scandal.

Is is true that Vatican Bank accounts are being used to launder money? Doubtful, and certainly not once instance has been proven.

The current "scandal" arises from an incident when funds in Vatican accounts at an Italian bank were frozen in 2010 due to an investigation into money laundering. The funds were unfrozen within a few days, but the incident underscored that present policies of the Vatican Bank do no comply with post-9/11 international banking norms instituted to prevent money laundering and the funneling of funds to terrorists. That doesn't mean, however, that money laundering has been occurring. It is amazing how facts get twisted beyond recognition any time you mention the Catholic Church.

:rofl

Pedoprotector Joe is on a roll!

[Ibanez]

I'm not a fan of Catholicism (I was born and raised Catholic, atteneded Catholic school K-12) but these are just allegations. The IOR has its history of scandel(1982?) but we have to look at each case differently. We all know D1b is baiting, he hears some Catholic did something, and he treats them like the Duke LAX team. Guilty before proven innocence (which he will never accept).

I'm not sure what are the "just allegations."

That some inside the bank were tied to bankruptcy fraud in 1982. True. Of course, no banking institution is ever completely free from scandal. Of note (or apparently not, since no reporter ever mentions), the Vatican Bank demonstrably did not involve itself with the creation, trading, insuring of asset-backed collateral or derivatives thereof, and scored no profits from these dirty investments which turned this world upside down. It is about the only sizable bank in the world with clean hands in that regard. Still waiting for the story on that.

Is the Vatican Bank secretive? Yes (although many of the reasons why it is secretive are pretty understandable, when rationally assessed). Should the Vatican Bank become more transparent in order to address post-9/11 international banking concerns? Yes. Are there people inside the Vatican resisting more transparency? Yes (although their motivations generally are not sinister). Might the Vatican be better off without the Vatican Bank? Debatable. It might seem more pure to do away with the Bank, although the divestiture of Vatican assets into accounts at numerous other financial institutions probably offers greater, not lesser, opportunity for scandal.

Is is true that Vatican Bank accounts are being used to launder money? Doubtful, and certainly not once instance has been proven.

The current "scandal" arises from an incident when funds in Vatican accounts at an Italian bank were frozen in 2010 due to an investigation into money laundering. The funds were unfrozen within a few days, but the incident underscored that present policies of the Vatican Bank do no comply with post-9/11 international banking norms instituted to prevent money laundering and the funneling of funds to terrorists. That doesn't mean, however, that money laundering has been occurring. It is amazing how facts get twisted beyond recognition any time you mention the Catholic Church.

Surely, someone with a law degree knows what allegations are.

[JoltinJoe]

I'm not sure what are the "just allegations."

That some inside the bank were tied to bankruptcy fraud in 1982. True. Of course, no banking institution is ever completely free from scandal. Of note (or apparently not, since no reporter ever mentions), the Vatican Bank demonstrably did not involve itself with the creation, trading, insuring of asset-backed collateral or derivatives thereof, and scored no profits from these dirty investments which turned this world upside down. It is about the only sizable bank in the world with clean hands in that regard. Still waiting for the story on that.

Is the Vatican Bank secretive? Yes (although many of the reasons why it is secretive are pretty understandable, when rationally assessed). Should the Vatican Bank become more transparent in order to address post-9/11 international banking concerns? Yes. Are there people inside the Vatican resisting more transparency? Yes (although their motivations generally are not sinister). Might the Vatican be better off without the Vatican Bank? Debatable. It might seem more pure to do away with the Bank, although the divestiture of Vatican assets into accounts at numerous other financial institutions probably offers greater, not lesser, opportunity for scandal.

Is is true that Vatican Bank accounts are being used to launder money? Doubtful, and certainly not once instance has been proven.

The current "scandal" arises from an incident when funds in Vatican accounts at an Italian bank were frozen in 2010 due to an investigation into money laundering. The funds were unfrozen within a few days, but the incident underscored that present policies of the Vatican Bank do no comply with post-9/11 international banking norms instituted to prevent money laundering and the funneling of funds to terrorists. That doesn't mean, however, that money laundering has been occurring. It is amazing how facts get twisted beyond recognition any time you mention the Catholic Church.

Surely, someone with a law degree knows what allegations are.

According to law, allegations are assertions of facts sufficient to create the impression of a plausible claim. Now that we have settled that, what are specifically the allegations which you say are "just?"

If you read these stories, the accusations are nothing but wild inferences which, to the extent they have any basis at all, are based on distortions. I mean, in any other context, quotes from someone called "Maria," otherwise not identified, would be laughable. But if "Maria" says something negative about the Catholic Church, it's -- pardon the pun -- Gospel truth.

The media have run with statements attributed to "Maria" and created the impression that officials at the Vatican Bank are routinely engaged in money laundering, when there isn't a shred of proof to substantiate that.

Perhaps Nuzzi, the author, is out to make a buck? There is an audience with a rabid appetite for anything anti-Catholic.

[Ibanez]

Surely, someone with a law degree knows what allegations are.

According to law, allegations are assertions of facts sufficient to create the impression of a plausible claim. Now that we have settled that, what are specifically the allegations which you say are "just?"

If you read these stories, the accusations are nothing but wild inferences which, to the extent they have any basis at all, are based on distortions. I mean, in any other context, quotes from someone called "Maria," otherwise not identified, would be laughable. But if "Maria" says something negative about the Catholic Church, it's -- pardon the pun -- Gospel truth.

I didn't say any allegation was "just" in the sense of being Justified (which is how I think you percieved it.) I said "these are just allegations" to rephrase, "these are only allegations" or "these are allegations with no confessions and no convictions". The IOR faced allegations of money laundering (you know the story).

[D1B]

Surely, someone with a law degree knows what allegations are.

According to law, allegations are assertions of facts sufficient to create the impression of a plausible claim. Now that we have settled that, what are specifically the allegations which you say are "just?"

If you read these stories, the accusations are nothing but wild inferences which, to the extent they have any basis at all, are based on distortions. I mean, in any other context, quotes from someone called "Maria," otherwise not identified, would be laughable. But if "Maria" says something negative about the Catholic Church, it's -- pardon the pun -- Gospel truth.

Thanks for the official allegations def! You really are an expert!

Yet the Vatican is spending billions to turn the world upside down to find the leaks and the documents!

Seems like a lot of effort for some 'lies'.

[JoltinJoe]

According to law, allegations are assertions of facts sufficient to create the impression of a plausible claim. Now that we have settled that, what are specifically the allegations which you say are "just?"

If you read these stories, the accusations are nothing but wild inferences which, to the extent they have any basis at all, are based on distortions. I mean, in any other context, quotes from someone called "Maria," otherwise not identified, would be laughable. But if "Maria" says something negative about the Catholic Church, it's -- pardon the pun -- Gospel truth.

I didn't say any allegation was "just" in the sense of being Justified (which is how I think you percieved it.) I said "these are just allegations" to rephrase, "these are only allegations" or "these are allegations with no confessions and no convictions". The IOR faced allegations of money laundering (you know the story).

Nevermind.

[D1B]

Hey Joe, you'll get a kick put of this:

The Toronto Star
Gabriele is an employee of the Holy See, a citizen and resident of the Vatican city state. He is being held by Vatican police who have accused him of stealing the pope's personal papers in a terrible breach of trust. His lawyers are Italian legal professionals, but they are communicating to the media via the Vatican spokesman — a conflict of interest that the Rev. Federico Lombardi has acknowledged but tried to downplay by saying he was merely offering a service to release information to the media.

[JoltinJoe]

Hey Joe, you'll get a kick put of this:

The Toronto Star
Gabriele is an employee of the Holy See, a citizen and resident of the Vatican city state. He is being held by Vatican police who have accused him of stealing the pope's personal papers in a terrible breach of trust. His lawyers are Italian legal professionals, but they are communicating to the media via the Vatican spokesman — a conflict of interest that the Rev. Federico Lombardi has acknowledged but tried to downplay by saying he was merely offering a service to release information to the media.

And your point is what??

[D1B]

Hey Joe, you'll get a kick put of this:

The Toronto Star
Gabriele is an employee of the Holy See, a citizen and resident of the Vatican city state. He is being held by Vatican police who have accused him of stealing the pope's personal papers in a terrible breach of trust. His lawyers are Italian legal professionals, but they are communicating to the media via the Vatican spokesman — a conflict of interest that the Rev. Federico Lombardi has acknowledged but tried to downplay by saying he was merely offering a service to release information to the media.

And your point is what??

[D1B]

Here's another gem from the Vicar of Christ (pope benedict):

"Our life is to live every situation united in Christ who will load onto himself all the suffering and sins of the world, and will give back to us light, hope and belief . And like that he will enable us to console ourselves in every genre of affliction."

Yep, fuck up left and right - help pedophiles molest children, lie, withhold the truth, hide criminals and deviants, act unethically at every turn - don't worry, jesus will make all things better.

Here's the Vicar of Christ:

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What an asshole. Also - Check out the kissing at 1:56 (creepy) and at 2:30 to the end where they mention that the guy kissing the pope, Cardinal Maciel, fathered 3 children in two families and molested at least one of them.

*Founder and leader of the one of the wealthiest catholic sub cults (Legionaries of Christ) Child rapist and drug addict Maciel is a whole other thread.

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