Vatican in chaos, Vatican bank - "a haven of corruption"

[Gil Dobie]

Banana Lovers Unite

Sorry to break up your pizza party, but Mr Banana's is needed in the football thread.

Carry on..........

[Chizzang]

How does it feel to be funding an organization that protects pedophiles, is responsible for the molestation of thousands of children, is currently involved in a child sex abuse and money laundering scandal, and discriminates against gay people?

Well if anything, they've been busy....
(That's more than most religions can do in a week)

[D1B]

This is getting better and better by the day. What a joke.

The highlights:

1. People are fearing for their safety and lives. From whom? The Catholic Church
2. The Catholic Church has imprisoned someone.
3. What is the church hiding?

Read on....

Since his first television program, VatiLeaks has made a major impact in Rome. The reopening of the criminal investigation into the disappearance of Emanuela Orlandi, the 15-year-old daughter of a Vatican employee who disappeared 30 years ago, has come to symbolize the VatiLeaks scandal and a small victory for transparency in the Roman Catholic Church. And earlier this month, the Holy See conceded to allow the opening of the tomb of a notorious mobster who was interred inside a Vatican church in an unprecedented act of cooperation with Italian police who want to find the truth in the Orlandi case. “The people who provided these documents did it because they’d had enough of the lies,” Nuzzi told The Daily Beast. “They did it at great risk, and if they are ever found out, they will likely disappear without a trace.” *

Nuzzi had touched a nerve with his 2010 Vatican SPA, an investigative book on the Vatican banking practices. He says he was likely chosen as the messenger for these documents because he had challenged the church before. When he was summoned to meet his main source, “Maria”—whose gender and age remain a secret—he says he didn’t know what to expect....

(Here's how Nuzzi got the docs)

He was given keys to a nondescript apartment in the Prati district of Rome, which was completely void of furniture except for one plastic chair in the middle of the marble-floored living room. “As a journalist you often follow blind leads and meet with people who know little or nothing,” Nuzzi says. “But I knew right away that this was going to be the biggest thing I’d ever been involved with.”

The two had a standing meeting at the apartment on Thursdays to avoid having to use the telephone or other traceable means of communication. Sometimes other informants would come, other times “Maria” would fail to show up, so Nuzzi would go back the following week. He says he thinks his sources gave him the documents out of duty after witnessing years of lies and manipulation by the church. “Since Karol Wojtyla [Pope John Paul II] died, I started putting copies of documents aside that I came across in my job at the Vatican,” Nuzzi quotes “Maria” in the book. “The truth emerging in the newspapers and the official discourse within the Holy See was so different, the hypocrisy reigned supreme, and the scandals were multiplying. I’m not talking only about the pedophilia and murder cases like the killing of the Swiss Guard and the disappearance of Emanuela Orlandi, but about money laundering, corruption, and threats.” *I've been saying this for years

The heavily footnoted book has photos of the documents and transcripts of the letters, faxes, and internal memorandums between Pope Benedict XVI and key Italian politicians and world leaders. Some of the documents are titillating, like secret correspondence from Dino Boffo, the former editor of the Catholic newspaper Avvenire, asking a high-ranking cardinal and the pope to intervene against editor Gain Maria Vian of the rival Catholic newspaper L’Osservatore Romano, who had leaked allegations that Boffo had harassed the wife of his gay lover. There are also letters from Italian public figures like Bruno Vespa, a well-known television journalist—like an Italian Mike Wallace—whose note with a donation of €10,000 donation to the church included a peculiar postscript: “When can I have a private audience?” One document outlines the trail of a €100,000 white truffle, donated by a prestigious Italian in exchange for a papal favor, which ended up in a soup-kitchen pasta lunch for the homeless.

The book also contains ample reference to the troubled American church, which was nearly bankrupted by legal costs and payments to victims of pedophile priests. In spite of its strategic importance for the Roman Catholic Church, the American church was considered a purgatory in terms of papal appointments. No one wanted to be “sent to Washington” to deal with the crises, which included the pedophilia scandal, the liberal American nuns, and liberal government policies that contradicted key church teachings. Nuzzi was given a number of documents referencing multi-million-dollar transfers to bail out the American diocese, including $10 million sent to the Wilmington, Del., Federal Bankruptcy Court, which shows for the first time just how much money the American church has cost the Holy See.

Anyone who crossed the wrong cardinals in Rome risked being sent to oversee the troubled American diocese. For example, Cardinal Carlo Maria Vigano had uncovered widespread corruption in the Vatican accounting department and wrote a series of letters to the pope pleading that he consider making high-level changes to stem the money laundering, nepotism, and embezzlement going on in the church. Soon after his initial complaints, he received notice of his impending transfer to Washington, D.C., three years before the end of his tenure. He pleaded with the pope to let him stay: “Holy Father, my transfer at this time would provoke much disorientation and discouragement in those who have believed it was possible to clean up so many situations of corruption and abuse of power that have been rooted in the management of so many departments,” he wrote. He was transferred to Washington late last year.

Nuzzi, who has also published the documents on his blog, says that the book, which shot to No. 1 in sales in Italian stores, is not an anti-Catholic tome. “I’m not making any judgments either way,” he says. “There are no personal letters or information about private lives. These are all documents that the church should make public for the sake of transparency.”

[JoltinJoe]

You waste so much bandwidth. All that space, and there is nothing. Nothing but tenuous speculation and accusations devoid of any proof.

You would have to be pretty stupid to fall for that. Oh, wait a minute ....

[youngterrier]

Come on guys, I thought my synonymous comment was funny....

[D1B]

You waste so much bandwidth. All that space, and there is nothing. Nothing but tenuous speculation and accusations devoid of any proof.

You would have to be pretty stupid to fall for that. Oh, wait a minute ....

You don't know shit, excuse maker. No one is condemning his books as being inaccurate. MOF, Vatican henchmen want him dead. They're calling his actions "criminal". He even provided photocopies as proof. The fact that the Vatican is scared shitless is all the proof necessary.

You're a moron for falling for the catholic bullshit.

Joe, like it or not, you're funding people who are responsible for the molestation of tens of thousands of children.

No one believes or trust you. Next time come up with proof.

[JoltinJoe]

You waste so much bandwidth. All that space, and there is nothing. Nothing but tenuous speculation and accusations devoid of any proof.

You would have to be pretty stupid to fall for that. Oh, wait a minute ....

You don't know ****, excuse maker. No one is condemning his books as being inaccurate. MOF, Vatican henchmen want him dead. They're calling his actions "criminal". He even provided photocopies as proof. The fact that the Vatican is scared shitless is all the proof necessary.

You're a moron for falling for the catholic bullshit.

Joe, like it or not, you're funding people who are responsible for the molestation of tens of thousands of children.

No one believes or trust you. Next time come up with proof.

Now you're not even making sense.

[Chizzang]

Come on guys, I thought my synonymous comment was funny....

it was - but apparently this is a serious business thread

[D1B]

You don't know ****, excuse maker. No one is condemning his books as being inaccurate. MOF, Vatican henchmen want him dead. They're calling his actions "criminal". He even provided photocopies as proof. The fact that the Vatican is scared shitless is all the proof necessary.

You're a moron for falling for the catholic bullshit.

Joe, like it or not, you're funding people who are responsible for the molestation of tens of thousands of children.

No one believes or trust you. Next time come up with proof.

Now you're not even making sense.

You're pathetic.

[kalm]

Come on guys, I thought my synonymous comment was funny....

it was - but apparently this is a serious business thread

I believe it was Shivas Irons who once said 'there is nothing so serious as grown men at play'.

(or something like that...I'm paraphrasing and going off memory)

[D1B]

This is why many people hate the catholic church:

On Tuesday, the Vatican undersecretary of state, Archbishop Angelo Becciu, lashed out at what he called an unprecedented, "brutal" attack on the pope, saying the stolen papers didn't just concern matters of internal church governance but represented the thoughts of people who in writing to the pope believed they were essentially speaking before God.

"It's not just that the pope's papers were stolen, but that people who turned to him as the vicar of Christ have had their consciences violated," Becciu told the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/05/30 ... z1wMFDmJKf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Speaking to the catholic pope is like speaking to christ!!?? So Jesus protects child molesters? Jesus only cares about money and power and masterminded a massive child abuse cover up? Jesus imprisoned someone? Jesus launders money and has an army of thugs to silence people? Jesus has an army of Joltin Joseph Goebbels' to manufacture truth to the brainwashed catholic world?

Jesus would hit someone in anger? Check it out at 1:30.
[youtube][/youtube]

How shameful.

[Chizzang]

Speaking to the catholic pope is like speaking to christ!!?? So Jesus protects child molesters? Jesus only cares about money and power and masterminded a massive child abuse cover up? Jesus imprisoned someone? Jesus launders money and has an army of thugs to silence people? Jesus has an army of Joltin Joseph Goebbels' to manufacture truth to the brainwashed catholic world?

Jesus would hit someone in anger? Check it out at 1:30.
[youtube][/youtube]

How shameful.

How many times are you going to win this argument and dance on the ping pong table with your pants down..?
I don't think anybody disagrees that "The Catholic Church and Rome" are a mess and an embarrassment to themselves

(I'm pretty sure Joe just replies like he does to see what you'll do next)

But as for me on this debate: You win

[JoltinJoe]

How many times are you going to win this argument and dance on the ping pong table with your pants down..?
I don't think anybody disagrees that "The Catholic Church and Rome" are a mess and an embarrassment to themselves

(I'm pretty sure Joe just replies like he does to see what you'll do next)

But as for me on this debate: You win

Let's start with the obvious first question. The accusation was made about "money laundering." Provide the specifics as to this allegation. What account? What purpose?

It's not enough to say the Vatican Bank has not adjusted to post-9/11 international banking protocols; therefore, someone is laundering money. I want the facts as to the account(s). I'll be waiting.

[Grizalltheway]

Yeah, and get us details on some Swiss and Cayman Islands accounts, while you're at it.

[D1B]

How many times are you going to win this argument and dance on the ping pong table with your pants down..?
I don't think anybody disagrees that "The Catholic Church and Rome" are a mess and an embarrassment to themselves

(I'm pretty sure Joe just replies like he does to see what you'll do next)

But as for me on this debate: You win

Let's start with the obvious first question. The accusation was made about "money laundering." Provide the specifics as to this allegation. What account? What purpose?

It's not enough to say the Vatican Bank has not adjusted to post-9/11 international banking protocols; therefore, someone is laundering money. I want the facts as to the account(s). I'll be waiting.

[JoltinJoe]

Yeah, and get us details on some Swiss and Cayman Islands accounts, while you're at it.

Translation: There is no proof of money laundering, but that won't stop us from claiming otherwise.

[D1B]

Yeah, and get us details on some Swiss and Cayman Islands accounts, while you're at it.

[JoltinJoe]

Let's start with the obvious first question. The accusation was made about "money laundering." Provide the specifics as to this allegation. What account? What purpose?

It's not enough to say the Vatican Bank has not adjusted to post-9/11 international banking protocols; therefore, someone is laundering money. I want the facts as to the account(s). I'll be waiting.

[D1B]

Yeah, and get us details on some Swiss and Cayman Islands accounts, while you're at it.

Translation: There is no proof of money laundering, but that won't stop us from claiming otherwise.

Joe's blood pressure before Cleets' declaring victory for D1B - Normal to low

Joe's blood pressure now - Extremely high, death imminent

[JoltinJoe]

Translation: There is no proof of money laundering, but that won't stop us from claiming otherwise.

Joe's blood pressure before Cleets' declaring victory for D1B - Normal to low

Joe's blood pressure now - Extremely high, death imminent

Waiting for you or Cleets to provide even one instance of money laundering. Just one.

[JoltinJoe]

Yeah, and get us details on some Swiss and Cayman Islands accounts, while you're at it.

Translation: "I was a General Studies Major at UNI."

[Ibanez]

I'm not a fan of Catholicism (I was born and raised Catholic, atteneded Catholic school K-12) but these are just allegations. The IOR has its history of scandel(1982?) but we have to look at each case differently. We all know D1b is baiting, he hears some Catholic did something, and he treats them like the Duke LAX team. Guilty before proven innocence (which he will never accept).

[Grizalltheway]

I'm not a fan of Catholicism (I was born and raised Catholic, atteneded Catholic school K-12) but these are just allegations. The IOR has its history of scandel(1982?) but we have to look at each case differently. We all know D1b is baiting, he hears some Catholic did something, and he treats them like the Duke LAX team. Guilty before proven innocence (which he will never accept).

And who, pray tell, is going to put Vatican officials on trial?

[D1B]

I'm not a fan of Catholicism (I was born and raised Catholic, atteneded Catholic school K-12) but these are just allegations. The IOR has its history of scandel(1982?) but we have to look at each case differently. We all know D1b is baiting, he hears some Catholic did something, and he treats them like the Duke LAX team. Guilty before proven innocence (which he will never accept).

And who, pray tell, is going to put Vatican officials on trial?

Exactly. The Vatican is judge, jury, prosecuter,investigator....

The truth will never come out.

[D1B]

Translation: "I was a General Studies Major at UNI."

Classic, Scumbag Joe!