Political Situation #1- Israeli Attack

[SDHornet]

Who cares what happens over there. We have plenty of our own shit to deal with.

[Seahawks08]

Who cares what happens over there. We have plenty of our own **** to deal with.

you will care when gas prices go up to 6 dollars...

[grizzaholic]

Who cares what happens over there. We have plenty of our own **** to deal with.

you will care when gas prices go up to 6 dollars...

NOPE. I will still drive just like I do today. Go fishing. Go hunting. It doesn't matter.

[HI54UNI]

Take the leash that we have off Israel and let them do what they want. Nobody better bitch about gas prices though when they turn the oil fields of the middle east into glass.

Isn't that a good idea to keep them on the leash then???

But they feel like Obama is getting ready to throw them under the bus so they just might break the leash themselves.

I don't want us to attack Iran but we are screwed. If Israel attacks them we will be dragged into this. No way around it.

[Ibanez]

Isn't that a good idea to keep them on the leash then???

But they feel like Obama is getting ready to throw them under the bus so they just might break the leash themselves.

I don't want us to attack Iran but we are screwed. If Israel attacks them we will be dragged into this. No way around it.

It's good to see someone around here understand the interdependicies of foreign powers.

[D1B]

How does cutting off their lifeblood (oil) constitute appeasement? Shit, we had American companies (IBM, for one) actively doing business with Nazi Germany. Not the same at all.

It was the Japs that we really cut the oil. After we cut that, they had no alternative but to attack us, knock us out, and the grab resources from the PacRim.


We appeased Hitler be giving him Czechsolvakia, the Sudentland, we failed to enforce the ToV(before the crash of 1929) Hitler was going to Africa, the Balkans andRussia for oil. There are countless studies on the appeasement of Germany in 1939. Europe kept trusting Hitler in hopes of avoiding a war.


Today, with our sanctions, we are similarly appeasing Tehran.

Don't forget about the fucking Catholic Church who legitimized Hitler and the Third Reich for billions of people.

Teichskonkordat

Anthony Rhodes regarded Hitler's desire for a Concordat with the Vatican as being driven principally by the prestige and respectability it brought to his regime abroad whilst at the same time eliminating the opposition of the Centre Party.[55] Rhodes took the view that if the survival of Catholic education and youth organisations was taken to be the principal aim of Papal diplomacy during this period then the signing of the Concordat to prevent greater evils was justified.[56] Many of the Centre Party deputies were priests who had not been afraid to raise their voices in the past and would almost certainly have voted against Hitler's assumption of dictatorial powers.[57] The voluntary dissolution of the Centre Party removed that obstacle and Hitler now had absolute power and brought respectability to the state: "within six months of its birth, the Third Reich had been given full approval by the highest spiritual power on earth".[35] Ian Kershaw considered the role of the Centre Party in Hitler's removal of almost all constitutional restraints as "particularly ignominious."[58] John Cornwell views Cardinal Pacelli as being an example of a "fellow traveller" of the Nazis who, through the Concordat, was willing to accept the generosity of Hitler in the educational sphere (more schools, teachers and pupil places), so long as the Church withdrew from the social and political sphere, at the same time as Jews were being dismissed from universities and Jewish pupil places were being reduced. He argues that the Catholic Centre Party vote was decisive in the adoption of dictatorial powers by Hitler and that the party's subsequent dissolution was at Pacelli's prompting.[59] Michael Phayer is of the opinion that the Concordat conditioned German bishops to avoid speaking out against anything that was not strictly related to church matters, leading to a muted response to the attacks on Mosaic Jews.[60] Carlo Falconi described the Concordat as "The Devil's Pact with Hitler".[61] Albert Einstein in private conversation relating to the Concordat said "Since when can one make a pact with Christ and Satan at the same time?"[62] Daniel Goldhagen recalled how Hitler had said “To attain our aim we should stop at nothing even if we must join forces with the devil...” and that, in Goldhagen's view, is what Hitler did in agreeing the Concordat with the Church.[63] Gordon Zahn felt that though the signing of the Concordat was distasteful for Cardinal Pacelli it had spared the Church in Germany from greater hardship and persecution.[36]

wikipedia

[JoltinJoe]

[D1B]

Good to see you posting again!

[BlueHen86]

Isn't that a good idea to keep them on the leash then???

But they feel like Obama is getting ready to throw them under the bus so they just might break the leash themselves.

I don't want us to attack Iran but we are screwed. If Israel attacks them we will be dragged into this. No way around it.

I think the only way we get dragged in is if Israel is losing, and I don't see that happening.
Who is going to help Iran? Nobody. Even the countries that hate us and would like to help Iran are busy with their own problems.
My guess is that this is strictly an Israel vs Iran fight. Israel will get it's nose bloodied, but they will dish out more punishment that they take.

When it's over Israel will acheive it's objective of taking out the key Iranian nuke facilities and Iran will claim victory.

[CID1990]

But they feel like Obama is getting ready to throw them under the bus so they just might break the leash themselves.

I don't want us to attack Iran but we are screwed. If Israel attacks them we will be dragged into this. No way around it.

I think the only way we get dragged in is if Israel is losing, and I don't see that happening.
Who is going to help Iran? Nobody. Even the countries that hate us and would like to help Iran are busy with their own problems.
My guess is that this is strictly an Israel vs Iran fight. Israel will get it's nose bloodied, but they will dish out more punishment that they take.

When it's over Israel will acheive it's objective of taking out the key Iranian nuke facilities and Iran will claim victory.

I think people are grossly overestimating the damage Israel would take in an exchange with Iran.


Also Sodomy

[Chizzang]

I think the only way we get dragged in is if Israel is losing, and I don't see that happening.
Who is going to help Iran? Nobody. Even the countries that hate us and would like to help Iran are busy with their own problems.
My guess is that this is strictly an Israel vs Iran fight. Israel will get it's nose bloodied, but they will dish out more punishment that they take.

When it's over Israel will acheive it's objective of taking out the key Iranian nuke facilities and Iran will claim victory.

I think people are grossly overestimating the damage Israel would take in an exchange with Iran.


Also Sodomy

Iran would get their ass handed to them every way it could be delivered
Picture the Forest Gump scene where the dude names all the kinds of ways to prepare shrimp
'
and that's a good start

[BlueHen86]

I think the only way we get dragged in is if Israel is losing, and I don't see that happening.
Who is going to help Iran? Nobody. Even the countries that hate us and would like to help Iran are busy with their own problems.
My guess is that this is strictly an Israel vs Iran fight. Israel will get it's nose bloodied, but they will dish out more punishment that they take.

When it's over Israel will acheive it's objective of taking out the key Iranian nuke facilities and Iran will claim victory.

I think people are grossly overestimating the damage Israel would take in an exchange with Iran.


Also Sodomy

I hope that I am. I figure Iran has to have something better than a scud missile. Iran will hit Israel with a few missile strikes and shoot down a few planes. In other words, they'll do a little more damage than Iraq did in the first Gulf War. A bloody nose for Israel, but that's about it.

[CID1990]

I think people are grossly overestimating the damage Israel would take in an exchange with Iran.


Also Sodomy

Iran would get their ass handed to them every way it could be delivered
Picture the Forest Gump scene where the dude names all the kinds of ways to prepare shrimp
'
and that's a good start

That's what worries me about them getting nukes. Any country that openly belligerent without the means to back it up (unless you count the mighty influence and badassedness of Allah) should not be allowed to develop the big bombs. Yes, that is condescendingly imperial of me, but thats my opinion and I am sticking with it.


Also Sodomy

[Chizzang]

This is Israel vs. Iran
as found on Teh Internetz (a series of tubes) filled with Catz

[Seahawks08]

I hope that I am. I figure Iran has to have something better than a scud missile. Iran will hit Israel with a few missile strikes and shoot down a few planes. In other words, they'll do a little more damage than Iraq did in the first Gulf War. A bloody nose for Israel, but that's about it.

Iran has something Iraq didn't: Hezbollah. If Iran is attacked, I would imagine Hezbollah would retaliate from Lebanon. Iran could also disrupt oil supplies in the region, creating instability in the Strait of Hormuz. Thus, gas prices would soar worldwide.

[BlueHen86]

I hope that I am. I figure Iran has to have something better than a scud missile. Iran will hit Israel with a few missile strikes and shoot down a few planes. In other words, they'll do a little more damage than Iraq did in the first Gulf War. A bloody nose for Israel, but that's about it.

Iran has something Iraq didn't: Hezbollah. If Iran is attacked, I would imagine Hezbollah would retaliate from Lebanon. Iran could also disrupt oil supplies in the region, creating instability in the Strait of Hormuz. Thus, gas prices would soar worldwide.

Israel has been dealing with Hezbollah for a long time, I think they'll be ready for them. Hezbollah can fire missiles and blow stuff up, but they can't invade (and win) and I doubt if they force an escallation that would bring other countries into the conflict.

I also don't see Iran disrupting oil supplies. They might if they were invaded in the way that we invaded Iraq and they were desperate. Israel won't be trying to overthrow Tehran, only to destroy nuke facilites. I don't think Iran will be desperate, just really pissed. Disrupting the oil supplies will hurt Iran as much as it hurts anyone else.

[Ibanez]

I hope that I am. I figure Iran has to have something better than a scud missile. Iran will hit Israel with a few missile strikes and shoot down a few planes. In other words, they'll do a little more damage than Iraq did in the first Gulf War. A bloody nose for Israel, but that's about it.

Iran has something Iraq didn't: Hezbollah. If Iran is attacked, I would imagine Hezbollah would retaliate from Lebanon. Iran could also disrupt oil supplies in the region, creating instability in the Strait of Hormuz. Thus, gas prices would soar worldwide.

Iran disrupting the oil flow? That is comical and wishful thinking at best. IF a strike happens and America is not made aware (highly unlikely) You will see our forces in that region quickly move to secure the Strait of Hormuz. Iran might not back down (potentially attacking US forces, can this begin a WWIII?) but any resistance from them will be quickly put down from the onslaught of American power. Even at our supposed weakness, we are still stronger than most.

Don't laugh at the WW3 remark. Remeber, WW1 began with the murder of one Archduke. One man.

[CID1990]

Iran has something Iraq didn't: Hezbollah. If Iran is attacked, I would imagine Hezbollah would retaliate from Lebanon. Iran could also disrupt oil supplies in the region, creating instability in the Strait of Hormuz. Thus, gas prices would soar worldwide.

Israel has been dealing with Hezbollah for a long time, I think they'll be ready for them. Hezbollah can fire missiles and blow stuff up, but they can't invade (and win) and I doubt if they force an escallation that would bring other countries into the conflict.

I also don't see Iran disrupting oil supplies. They might if they were invaded in the way that we invaded Iraq and they were desperate. Israel won't be trying to overthrow Tehran, only to destroy nuke facilites. I don't think Iran will be desperate, just really pissed. Disrupting the oil supplies will hurt Iran as much as it hurts anyone else.

The only thing keeping Israel from whipping Hizboallah is us and the international community. Israel likes the military aid they get from us, so they play ball to that extent.

But... nobody should fool themselves for one second as to what would happen if the Israelis find themselves in a position they think is untenable; where their existence might be in question. They have been in that position three times, and each time they have bitten off a sizeable chunk of their adversaries' butts. Consider this: in 1967 Israel took on three countries at once, on three different sides, with whom they had shared borders. They neutralized Jordan and Syria faster than you can say "oh sh!t" in Arabic. Then they turned their attention to Egypt, who at the time enjoyed a military advantage much larger than any the Iranians might think they have today.

Hizb'allah would be just a minor distraction to Israel during a conflict with Iran.

As for Iran having "more than just a few Scud missiles", they do, and they are still outdated mostly Soviet technology,
some Chinese mixed in, none of which will be functioning 10 days into the conflict (until the Revolutionary Guard sees the predicament and starts hiding the toys in caves).


Also Sodomy

[Ibanez]

Israel has been dealing with Hezbollah for a long time, I think they'll be ready for them. Hezbollah can fire missiles and blow stuff up, but they can't invade (and win) and I doubt if they force an escallation that would bring other countries into the conflict.

I also don't see Iran disrupting oil supplies. They might if they were invaded in the way that we invaded Iraq and they were desperate. Israel won't be trying to overthrow Tehran, only to destroy nuke facilites. I don't think Iran will be desperate, just really pissed. Disrupting the oil supplies will hurt Iran as much as it hurts anyone else.

The only thing keeping Israel from whipping Hizboallah is us and the international community. Israel likes the military aid they get from us, so they play ball to that extent.

But... nobody should fool themselves for one second as to what would happen if the Israelis find themselves in a position they think is untenable; where their existence might be in question. They have been in that position three times, and each time they have bitten off a sizeable chunk of their adversaries' butts. Consider this: in 1967 Israel took on three countries at once, on three different sides, with whom they had shared borders. They neutralized Jordan and Syria faster than you can say "oh sh!t" in Arabic. Then they turned their attention to Egypt, who at the time enjoyed a military advantage much larger than any the Iranians might think they have today.

Hizb'allah would be just a minor distraction to Israel during a conflict with Iran.

As for Iran having "more than just a few Scud missiles", they do, and they are still outdated mostly Soviet technology,
some Chinese mixed in, none of which will be functioning 10 days into the conflict (until the Revolutionary Guard sees the predicament and starts hiding the toys in caves).


Also Sodomy

Fortunately, it will [robably be over before Obama (or Romney) could make a decision and fully execute the plan.


That is unless Iran gets aid from China or Russia. but those two countries wouldn't take on that burden.

[CID1990]

The only thing keeping Israel from whipping Hizboallah is us and the international community. Israel likes the military aid they get from us, so they play ball to that extent.

But... nobody should fool themselves for one second as to what would happen if the Israelis find themselves in a position they think is untenable; where their existence might be in question. They have been in that position three times, and each time they have bitten off a sizeable chunk of their adversaries' butts. Consider this: in 1967 Israel took on three countries at once, on three different sides, with whom they had shared borders. They neutralized Jordan and Syria faster than you can say "oh sh!t" in Arabic. Then they turned their attention to Egypt, who at the time enjoyed a military advantage much larger than any the Iranians might think they have today.

Hizb'allah would be just a minor distraction to Israel during a conflict with Iran.

As for Iran having "more than just a few Scud missiles", they do, and they are still outdated mostly Soviet technology,
some Chinese mixed in, none of which will be functioning 10 days into the conflict (until the Revolutionary Guard sees the predicament and starts hiding the toys in caves).


Also Sodomy

Fortunately, it will [robably be over before Obama (or Romney) could make a decision and fully execute the plan.


That is unless Iran gets aid from China or Russia. but those two countries wouldn't take on that burden.

Well, that is the reason we are talking about unilateral Israeli military action in the first place, isnt it?

An attack from Israel will happen under the assumption that we are either too inept or too unwilling (or both) to do anything effective regarding Iran's nuclear program.


Also Sodomy

[Ibanez]

Fortunately, it will [robably be over before Obama (or Romney) could make a decision and fully execute the plan.


That is unless Iran gets aid from China or Russia. but those two countries wouldn't take on that burden.

Well, that is the reason we are talking about unilateral Israeli military action in the first place, isnt it?

An attack from Israel will happen under the assumption that we are either too inept or too unwilling (or both) to do anything effective regarding Iran's nuclear program.


Also Sodomy

Yes. We won't be DIRECTLY involved. I think we'll have a hand in some actions, even if it's just intel gathering.

[Ibanez]

http://blogs.voanews.com/breaking-news/ ... necessary/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The U.S. envoy to Israel said this week that Washington is willing to use military force if necessary to stop Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon and already has plans in place for a possible attack.

Ambassador Daniel Shapiro told members of Israel's Bar Association “it would be preferable to resolve this diplomatically and through the use of pressure than to use military force.”

“But,” he said, “that does not mean that option is not fully available. Not just available, but it's ready. The necessary planning has been done to ensure that it's ready.”

According to the Associated Press, which said it obtained a tape of the remarks, Shapiro acknowledged the diplomatic clock is ticking. “We do believe there is time – some time, not an unlimited amount of time,” he said. “But at a certain point, we may have to make a judgment that the diplomacy will not work.”

The envoy's comments were first reported Thursday by the Israeli newspaper Makor Rishon. Shapiro spoke on Tuesday. A U.S. embassy spokesman in Tel Aviv declined to elaborate on the remarks, which aired on Israeli radio and television.

The United States, Israel and much of the international community believes Iran's nuclear program is an attempt to obtain a nuclear weapon, a charge Tehran denies, saying its work is for peaceful civilian energy and medical use.

Meanwhile, U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said the Pentagon will give Israel an additional $70 million for its short-range anti-rocket shield, known as “Iron Dome.”

He spoke after meeting his Israeli counterpart, Ehud Barak, in Washington Thursday.

The U.S. already has provided $205 million for the system and annually gives Israel another $3.1 billion in overall security assistance, the most for any foreign country.

[Seahawks08]

lol obviously Israel's existence isn't in question. I'm just throwing out what else Iran could do to retaliate. Hezbollah, I imagine, isn't only in Lebanon. But all they could do is fire some rockets at Israel anyway. And as for disrupting oil, I was thinking in terms of laying down mines or maybe sinking a ship in the strait. But sanctions are working and once the European oil embargo kicks in in July, it will be Iran's move again.

[houndawg]

The only thing keeping Israel from whipping Hizboallah is us and the international community. Israel likes the military aid they get from us, so they play ball to that extent.

But... nobody should fool themselves for one second as to what would happen if the Israelis find themselves in a position they think is untenable; where their existence might be in question. They have been in that position three times, and each time they have bitten off a sizeable chunk of their adversaries' butts. Consider this: in 1967 Israel took on three countries at once, on three different sides, with whom they had shared borders. They neutralized Jordan and Syria faster than you can say "oh sh!t" in Arabic. Then they turned their attention to Egypt, who at the time enjoyed a military advantage much larger than any the Iranians might think they have today.

Hizb'allah would be just a minor distraction to Israel during a conflict with Iran.

As for Iran having "more than just a few Scud missiles", they do, and they are still outdated mostly Soviet technology,
some Chinese mixed in, none of which will be functioning 10 days into the conflict (until the Revolutionary Guard sees the predicament and starts hiding the toys in caves).


Also Sodomy

Fortunately, it will [robably be over before Obama (or Romney) could make a decision and fully execute the plan.


That is unless Iran gets aid from China or Russia. but those two countries wouldn't take on that burden.

I believe China recently signed a 30 year oil deal with Iran. I don't think they're going to sit still for shutting down a major long-term supplier.

[SDHornet]

Who cares what happens over there. We have plenty of our own **** to deal with.

you will care when gas prices go up to 6 dollars...

My wife and I can easily absorb $10/gallon gas.
I'll worry about gas prices/cost when it hits $15/gallon.