John Derbyshire rant...Avoid Concentrations Of Blacks

[grizzaholic]

The gypsys and jews didn't work out so well last time, huh.

They were put in their place.

[Grizalltheway]

They were put in their place.

What

[grizzaholic]

What

Who?

[citdog]

The gypsys and jews didn't work out so well last time, huh.

They were put in their place.

when i see you i'll be punching you in your godamn nazi face you teutonic twit. on behalf of my Aunt who has an arm that looks like this.

[JohnStOnge]

Is John Derbyshire really JSO?

No, but I agree with all the points of advice he suggested except for the one about scrutinizing a Black politician's character more than one would a White politician's character. Also agree with the thing...which was just an observation rather than advice...about intelligence levels.

I did go against one of the advice points once. I was driving long distance and saw a bunch of Black guys with their car broken down frantically trying to flag people down for help. I knew they were going to have a tough time getting anybody to stop so I stopped. I was nervous about it because they were big and rough looking but I stopped and took a couple of them to the next town so they could contact people and get some help. They offered to give me some money. I said that wasn't necessary. But later after I was on my own again I found a $20 under the little flip down center console in my car.

The intelligence test thing is just the truth. One can scrape and search and find some exceptions to the rule but generally it is the rule. They have been trying to come up with "bias free" tests through most of my life time and keep getting the same results. Meanwhile Asians from Vietnam came here from horribly deprived background and not speaking English and immediately began scoring high on IQ tests and standardized tests. For some reason their different culture and language doesn't cause them to score a full standard deviation lower on average. In fact egalitarians immediately started saying that their culture of achievement is why they do score higher.

To me it looks like the way it works is that the starting premise is that if there is nothing wrong with the test and environments are reasonably equalized we won't see differences in distributions of scores between races. So if we see differences in distributions between races that can't reasonably be explained away by environmental factors we say something must be wrong with the test. But there's really no reason to say there's something wrong with the test except we're starting off with the assumption that if there wasn't we wouldn't see differences in distributions.

Of course underlying all of this is the fact that we can never really know for sure because it's all observational data and the fact that one is better off judging each individual individually. But at the same time it's not good to assume that every group is going to enjoy equivalent success in every area if things are determined by honest competition.

[kalm]

Is John Derbyshire really JSO?

No, but I agree with all the points of advice he suggested except for the one about scrutinizing a Black politician's character more than one would a White politician's character. Also agree with the thing...which was just an observation rather than advice...about intelligence levels.

I did go against one of the advice points once. I was driving long distance and saw a bunch of Black guys with their car broken down frantically trying to flag people down for help. I knew they were going to have a tough time getting anybody to stop so I stopped. I was nervous about it because they were big and rough looking but I stopped and took a couple of them to the next town so they could contact people and get some help. They offered to give me some money. I said that wasn't necessary. But later after I was on my own again I found a $20 under the little flip down center console in my car.

The intelligence test thing is just the truth. One can scrape and search and find some exceptions to the rule but generally it is the rule. They have been trying to come up with "bias free" tests through most of my life time and keep getting the same results. Meanwhile Asians from Vietnam came here from horribly deprived background and not speaking English and immediately began scoring high on IQ tests and standardized tests. For some reason their different culture and language doesn't cause them to score a full standard deviation lower on average. In fact egalitarians immediately started saying that their culture of achievement is why they do score higher.

To me it looks like the way it works is that the starting premise is that if there is nothing wrong with the test and environments are reasonably equalized we won't see differences in distributions of scores between races. So if we see differences in distributions between races that can't reasonably be explained away by environmental factors we say something must be wrong with the test. But there's really no reason to say there's something wrong with the test except we're starting off with the assumption that if there wasn't we wouldn't see differences in distributions.

Of course underlying all of this is the fact that we can never really know for sure because it's all observational data and the fact that one is better off judging each individual individually. But at the same time it's not good to assume that every group is going to enjoy equivalent success in every area if things are determined by honest competition.

Pretending for a second that this analysis is correct, how should we utilize it?

[houndawg]

They were put in their place.

when i see you i'll be punching you in your godamn nazi face you teutonic twit. on behalf of my Aunt who has an arm that looks like this.

Looky who can't take it like he dishes it out. What a surprise.

[JohnStOnge]

Pretending for a second that this analysis is correct, how should we utilize it?

Well, the stuff about avoiding certain situations is pretty straightforward and up to the individual.

With the stuff about IQ it's no so much what we do as what we should not do. We should not assume there are no differences in aptitude and thereby operate on the assumption that free and honest competition would result in different groups being represented within given professions being represented in proportions consistent with their proportions in the population. For instance: We would not assume that there is something "wrong" if people with ancestors from Japan, China, Vietnam, and Korea are disproportionately represented among engineers. And we should not assume there is something wrong if people of Sub Saharan African ancestry are disproportionately under-represented in that field.

Be fair. But don't start off by assuming that fairness is going to yield the egalitarian ideal. And if it turns out I'm wrong and 50 percent of engineers turn out to be Black so be it. Let the chips fall where they may.

Also quit pretending that "diversity" in itself means a better outcome. Like pretending that it's better for White and Asian students that do get into a prestigious university to deny other White and Asian students entry in favor of "under represented minority" students who are less objectively qualified to be there.

[grizzaholic]

They were put in their place.

when i see you i'll be punching you in your godamn nazi face you teutonic twit. on behalf of my Aunt who has an arm that looks like this.

Really needs to get a better tattoo artist.

[JohnStOnge]

Just as a follow up to crying "unfair" when looking at proportions. I'm going to go back to the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) stuff and also use Census Bureau data to illustrate something. This time I'll use the most recent (2009) NAEP 12th Grade Math test because that's at the end of high school when people might be starting their adult lives. If someone wants the test score numbers behind what I'm going to type I'll provide that but for now I'll just describe what happens. Note: The percentages of different groups in the general population add up to a little over 101% because of the way the Census Bureau reports things. Here we go:

If there were a job that required high level math skills so that someone would have to score at the 90th percentile or above of the NAEP 12th Grade math test to be qualified, a reasonable estimate of how the pool of qualified candidates nationally would look in terms of percentages of ethnic groups looks like this:

White (63.7% of the general population) - 78.3% of the pool
Asian (4.8% of the general population) - 12.4% of the pool
Hispanic (16.3% of the population) - 4.3% of the pool
Two or more races (2.9% of the general population) - 3.2% of the pool
Black (12.6% of the general population) - 1.7% of the pool
Native American (0.9% of the general population) - 0.2% of the pool

So you can see that if we want people good at math to occupy positions requiring being good at math, fair competition aimed at getting the best set of people into those positions is not going to result in the proportions of the different ethnic groups listed in the occupation being similar to the proportions of those different ethnic groups in the general population. Moreover, if we just picked the very best we might be up around the 99th percentile. That would swing the disproportionate nature of the pool even more towards Whites and And Asians; especially Asians. At the 99th percentile and above level the estimates would say a hair under 95% of the pool would be White (72.1%) and Asian (22.7%) while only 0.5% would be Black.

I can understand trying to improve with respect to factors under our control and if that eliminates the discrepancies that's great. But in the meantime we shouldn't be deciding that something is "unfair" in terms of who ends up in what positions based on comparing proportions in the general population to proportions in occupations and/or professions. And we also can not legitimately assume that equalizing environmental and/or cultural factors will entirely eliminate the discrepancies. So we shouldn't be judging the "fairness" of tests or calling them "biased" just because they don't reflect the pre-existing assumption that there would be no differences in distributions of results among ethnic groups if only the tests weren't "culturally biased."

[JohnStOnge]

Which means, BTW, that we also shouldn't be doing things like calling tests to qualify for jobs like firefighter, etc., "discriminatory" because the proportion of a particular group that is able to pass it is judged to be "too small." If the test doesn't really mean anything then don't use it. But don't judge whether or not it means anything by whether or not a sufficient proportion of a particular group can pass it.

[dal4018]

National Review Writer Pens Racist Screed: ‘Avoid Concentrations Of Blacks,’ ‘Stay Out Of’ Their Neighborhoods



Popular conservative columnist and National Review writer John Derbyshire topped all of his previous racist screeds (and sexist rants) today by posting a long breakdown of all of the important lessons he has taught his children about race — and he’s outdone his own racism with this one.

Derbyshire wrote the column in the third person, as a list of lessons to his kids about race. The lessons are his response to “the talk” that black parents have with their children — conversations they are forced to have because of real, persistent racism. After spending a few minutes bemoaning that he can’t say a racist slur (“What you must call ‘the ‘N’ word’ is used freely among blacks but is taboo to nonblacks”) and opining on the hostility he believes all black people feel toward white people like himself (though he says he isn’t white before calling himself white several times), he cuts to the heart of his lessons for his children:

(10a) Avoid concentrations of blacks not all known to you personally.

(10b) Stay out of heavily black neighborhoods.

(10c) If planning a trip to a beach or amusement park at some date, find out whether it is likely to be swamped with blacks on that date (neglect of that one got me the closest I have ever gotten to death by gunshot).

(10d) Do not attend events likely to draw a lot of blacks.

(10e) If you are at some public event at which the number of blacks suddenly swells, leave as quickly as possible.

(10f) Do not settle in a district or municipality run by black politicians.

(10g) Before voting for a black politician, scrutinize his/her character much more carefully than you would a white.

(10h) Do not act the Good Samaritan to blacks in apparent distress, e.g., on the highway.

(10i) If accosted by a strange black in the street, smile and say something polite but keep moving.

(11) The mean intelligence of blacks is much lower than for whites. The least intelligent ten percent of whites have IQs below 81; forty percent of blacks have IQs that low. Only one black in six is more intelligent than the average white; five whites out of six are more intelligent than the average black. These differences show in every test of general cognitive ability that anyone, of any race or nationality, has yet been able to devise.

Compared to this guy Rush Limbaugh is actually human.

[JohnStOnge]

Well, you guys will be glad to learn that the National Review fired the guy:

http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/04/ ... ticle.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I realize that this happens on both sides. People get fired for expressing controversial views. I wish it wasn't like that. Take this issue of Race for instance. There's no way we're going to have an honest, full, societal discussion of the matter if people who express unpopular views about it on either side are going to lose their jobs for expressing those views.

[JohnStOnge]

Hey look: Someone's been reading our forum:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc ... re/255578/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Scroll down to this guy's point number 5, which reads:

Sometimes people will point out to you, "There are, for example, no black Fields Medal winners." Sometimes people say things like this because they want to discuss, say, the inherent inequalities in our education system that tilt the playing field against black students. Sometimes they say it because they want you to believe that black people are inherently worse at math. Both conversations are partially about race, but the latter is necessarily racist.

I don't agree with that statement about being necessarily racist. To me "racist" means believing one race is inherently superior to another and I don't think one race having a higher distribution of math aptitude than another makes it superior. But I understand how it goes. So I usually just say, "Ok, go ahead and call me names."

I also think the thing about inherent inequalities in our education system is one of those things where people start off with the "equality" assumption then scratch and claw trying to grasp at any possible explanation they can to avoid even CONSIDERING the possibility that...for instance...the distribution of math aptitudes among one race might be higher than the distribution of math aptitudes among another. But it'd be easy enough to test the guy's hypothesis. Just look at the question of variation between races in math performance within schools and classrooms so that the effect of education environment in terms of school and teacher is controlled for. And I think we all know what would happen. We'd still get differences in distributions of math aptitudes. Asians would still come out with the highest distribution of aptitudes and Blacks would still come out with the lowest.

[mrklean]

This is too funny. I can see a white guy running like hell when my family comes to the beach..........lol

[Gil Dobie]

Dude's voting Conk, too, no doubt. Wonder what he thinks of Obama.

There are no Conks to vote for, so he maybe voting Republican = Racist Liberals.

[Ivytalk]

This is too funny. I can see a white guy running like hell when my family comes to the beach..........lol

Was that YOU??

[mrklean]

This is too funny. I can see a white guy running like hell when my family comes to the beach..........lol

Was that YOU??

You know black people can't swim....................

[CitadelGrad]

Was that YOU??

You know black people can't swim....................

Especially when their hands and feet are bound.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

You know black people can't swim....................

Especially when their hands and feet are bound.

ROFLMAO

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

[Wedgebuster]

When I was a kid, growing up around the world on military bases, a lot of these basic pointers were commonly advised and followed.

The only one not mentioned here is "never hit a ****** on the head, you will only break your hand."

That one I followed also.

[JohnStOnge]

This is too funny. I can see a white guy running like hell when my family comes to the beach..........lol

No. Not just your family. A "critical mass." And that's difficult to define. I am not at all concerned about the Black families in my neighborhood. But I would be concerned about being in overwhelmingly Black neighborhoods in certain areas of Baton Rouge or New Orleans.

And I honestly can't think of any overwhelmingly White neighborhoods I'd be concerned about being in. Like would i be concerned about being in some dirt poor White neighborhood in Appalachia? West Virginia? No way. I would not be concerned about the safety of myself or my family.

I'm not going to attempt to do it but I don't think there's any doubt that if one were to try to derive some index of the most dangerous places to be in the US in terms of being a victim of crime one would come up with a result showing that the most dangerous places are overwhelmingly Black areas. "Blackness" may not cause that. But the association is still there and if somebody is making decisions about risk the cause doesn't matter. You avoid those places.

[JohnStOnge]

If the thing below is even close to true it's another good reason why there was no point in me continuing to try to answer questions in that quiz about religions.

[youtube][/youtube]

[JohnStOnge]

Double post and I still can't delete. I really do wish this site would have an option where you could just hit an obvious "delete" button.

[Grizalltheway]

Double post and I still can't delete. I really do wish this site would have an option where you could just hit an obvious "delete" button.

Edit post>delete post, right above the message box. I know, pretty perplexing.