So your vote is all based on religion?

[Cap'n Cat]

Jefferson was, indeed, a Diest.

like many of his day. It's no doubt he was a follower of Christ, but I think the greatest evidence I his bible which is 100% inspired by Enlighten thinking and is in accordance with 18th century Deism.

Cap'n Cat finds much attractive in Deism, esp that notion that some supreme being just rolled the ball down the lane and hasn't intervened since. However, haven't been able to justify the "supreme being" thing in years.

[kalm]

like many of his day. It's no doubt he was a follower of Christ, but I think the greatest evidence I his bible which is 100% inspired by Enlighten thinking and is in accordance with 18th century Deism.

Cap'n Cat finds much attractive in Deism, esp that notion that some supreme being just rolled the ball down the lane and hasn't intervened since. However, haven't been able to justify the "supreme being" thing in years.

Both of these. The US was the first country founded on an idea. It's nice that Christianity happens to share some similar ideals.

[Cap'n Cat]

Cap'n Cat finds much attractive in Deism, esp that notion that some supreme being just rolled the ball down the lane and hasn't intervened since. However, haven't been able to justify the "supreme being" thing in years.

Both of these. The US was the first country founded on an idea. It's nice that Christianity happens to share some similar ideals.

Yup.

Christianity stole more ideas than it came up with, though.

[Ibanez]

Both of these. The US was the first country founded on an idea. It's nice that Christianity happens to share some similar ideals.

Yup.

Christianity stole more ideas than it came up with, though.

yeah bc it's an extension of Judiasm

[citdog]

Yup.

Christianity stole more ideas than it came up with, though.

yeah bc it's an extension of Judiasm

so Joos are thieves?

[Ibanez]

yeah bc it's an extension of Judiasm

so Joos are thieves?

no retard, Christian are.

Jews are murderers.

[citdog]

so Joos are thieves?

no retard, Christian are.

Jews are murderers.

we have to have that blood of a christian child for passover!



[youtube][/youtube]

[Ibanez]

no retard, Christian are.

Jews are murderers.

we have to have that blood of a christian child for passover!



[youtube][/youtube]

I thought that was a myth.

[citdog]

we have to have that blood of a christian child for passover!



[youtube][/youtube]

I thought that was a myth.

no you're thinking of the holocaust.

[SuperHornet]

I don't deny anything you said, Mark. My point about the Constitution was that the fact that it separates the powers reflects the order Moses was given to delegate power. One person cannot handle it all. He tried, and he "only" had about 2M people with him (counting women and children), and that doesn't even count flocks and gear. Imagine one person trying to make ALL the decisions for a nation of this size. It just wouldn't work.

No, the Bible doesn't say "Thou shalt have a bicameral legislature, an executive branch, and a court system." But it certainly seems to me that having such is ONE possible way to keep one person from having all power, and while we may not agree with everything it has done, the arrangement has been fairly effective over the years.

this is all your opinion. Our constitution is Common law, not authoritative law. Islamic countries have authoritative law. We don't. Research the Magna Carta.

Where does common law come from, Mark? It's got to come from somewhere. The original source in many respects WAS the Magna Charta. But that original source had to be influenced by SOMETHING. All I'm saying is that the influence, if not a direct citation, comes from the Bible. Sure, that's opinion. But in this realm, just about anything said is opionion.

[Ibanez]

this is all your opinion. Our constitution is Common law, not authoritative law. Islamic countries have authoritative law. We don't. Research the Magna Carta.

Where does common law come from, Mark? It's got to come from somewhere. The original source in many respects WAS the Magna Charta. But that original source had to be influenced by SOMETHING. All I'm saying is that the influence, if not a direct citation, comes from the Bible. Sure, that's opinion. But in this realm, just about anything said is opionion.

I've already explained where Common law came from.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Common+Law" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The ancient law of England based upon societal customs and recognized and enforced by the judgments and decrees of the courts. The general body of statutes and case law that governed England and the American colonies prior to the American Revolution.

The principles and rules of action, embodied in case law rather than legislative enactments, applicable to the government and protection of persons and property that derive their authority from the community customs and traditions that evolved over the centuries as interpreted by judicial tribunals.

A designation used to denote the opposite of statutory, equitable, or civil, for example, a common-law action.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictiona ... Common+law" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[kalm]

this is all your opinion. Our constitution is Common law, not authoritative law. Islamic countries have authoritative law. We don't. Research the Magna Carta.

Where does common law come from, Mark? It's got to come from somewhere. The original source in many respects WAS the Magna Charta. But that original source had to be influenced by SOMETHING. All I'm saying is that the influence, if not a direct citation, comes from the Bible. Sure, that's opinion. But in this realm, just about anything said is opionion.

So the enlightenment ideals of democracy and prosperity for all came from the bible? God...what a lib.

[Grizalltheway]

Magna Charta?

[Ibanez]

And you say that because....?

Because Jefferson called himself a Christan.

I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw...

PLUS, Diests tend to be ones who don't worship God. Jefferson attended church services inside the chamber of the House of Representatives every Sunday during his presidency.

http://www.moderndeism.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is Thomas Jefferson discussing his belief in Diesm.

I should then take a view of the deism and ethics of the Jews, and show in what a degraded state they were, and the necessity they presented of a reformation. I should proceed to a view of the life, character, & doctrines of Jesus, who sensible of incorrectness of their ideas of the Deity, and of morality, endeavored to bring them to the principles of a pure deism, and juster notions of the attributes of God, to reform their moral doctrines to the standard of reason, justice & philanthropy, and to inculcate the belief of a future state.

[Ibanez]

I'm not a religious man, but I think If I had to chose, I'd align myself to Deism.

You shall honor and worship the Creator in a fashion that suits you

You shall treat others with dignity and respect and you shall insist that others respect your dignity as well

You shall live life pragmatically and use Reason as the cornerstone for all you think, say and do

You shall be honest and not lie, cheat or steal

You shall not harm another unless it is in defense of yourself or loved ones

You shall treat others as you want to be treated

You shall take responsibility for your actions

You shall have faith in yourself

You shall honor and be faithful to your Father, your Mother and your Loved ones

You shall learn from the mistakes that you will make

You shall find awe, inspiration and beauty in the creation and the natural order of the universe

You shall search for truth and be willing to accept new ideas based on reason as you are exposed to them

http://moderndeism.com/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youngterrier]

lolz at the "we were influenced by the bible" comments.

First of all, if I'm not mistaken 2 of the 5 members of the committee that wrote the Declaration of Independence were in fact Deists (Franklin and Jefferson). Also, the term "Nature's God" pops up in the Declaration, but that is a Deistic term that Jefferson got from Thomas Paine. If anything, there's a Deistic influence on our Constitution and Declaration of Independence and the wording of the documents reflect as such.

Additionally, I'd say that most of the powers of which our constitution originate come from the consent of the governed more so than they are by God. For instance, murder was never a federal offense at the founding of the union unless it was upon a federal official. Murder is illegal in every county of every state of the union, not because it's federally mandated but because the people of those states decided as much to make murder against the law. This may have changed with the incorporation of the Civil Rights Amendments, but still the facts stay the same when talking about the political philosophy of the founders.

Also, John Quincy Adams was sworn into the office of the presidency on a book of Law, to ensure the concept of separation

[Ibanez]

Additionally, I'd say that most of the powers of which our constitution originate come from the consent of the governed more so than they are by God. For instance, murder was never a federal offense at the founding of the union unless it was upon a federal official. Murder is illegal in every county of every state of the union, not because it's federally mandated but because the people of those states decided as much to make murder against the law. This may have changed with the incorporation of the Civil Rights Amendments, but still the facts stay the same when talking about the political philosophy of the founders.

Where have I heard that? Oh yeah, it's called COMMON LAW!

[youngterrier]

Additionally, I'd say that most of the powers of which our constitution originate come from the consent of the governed more so than they are by God. For instance, murder was never a federal offense at the founding of the union unless it was upon a federal official. Murder is illegal in every county of every state of the union, not because it's federally mandated but because the people of those states decided as much to make murder against the law. This may have changed with the incorporation of the Civil Rights Amendments, but still the facts stay the same when talking about the political philosophy of the founders.

Where have I heard that? Oh yeah, it's called COMMON LAW!

meh, I'm playing by ear......I skimmed through this thread, basically just repeated everything you said.

Not a fuck was given on this day!

[Ibanez]

Where have I heard that? Oh yeah, it's called COMMON LAW!

meh, I'm playing by ear......I skimmed through this thread, basically just repeated everything you said.

Not a fuck was given on this day!

Praise be to Fonzie!

[JMU DJ]

Magna Charta?

Ohhhh SH.

[Ibanez]

bu-bu-bu-bump!

[Cap'n Cat]

Yup.

Christianity stole more ideas than it came up with, though.

yeah bc it's an extension of Judiasm

No, not because of that, Mark. Look up the origins of the major holidays in Christianity and see how they weaseled themselves in to try and recruit pagans and others.

[Ibanez]

yeah bc it's an extension of Judiasm

No, not because of that, Mark. Look up the origins of the major holidays in Christianity and see how they weaseled themselves in to try and recruit pagans and others.

Oh I know. The origins of Christianity lies with Judiasm, that is what I meant by extension. Yes, the holidays and even some practices have thier roots in paganism and for a good reason. It's easy to convert when the holidays and practices are nearly the same.

[Ibanez]

Curious if this question will be asked and reported on today.