youngterrier wrote:The intrinsic rightness or wrongness of morality or moral structures is just as self evident as a science as physics, medicine, biology, or chemistry. We may not know the absolute right answers, but the wrong answers are pretty easy to spot.
JSO isn't welcome in the conversation of morality because he doesn't believe that helping people in turn is more beneficial to the individual than standing alone (think united we stand, divide we fall). He denies that empathy or altruism are "natural" in human beings which is really fucking hilarious, considering he says he believes in Darwinism, yet clearly he doesn't understand it if he holds that fact to be true. By implying humans only inhibit behavior to survive is laughable to say the least (explain smoking tobacco or other recreational drugs?).
One can deny that the golden rule will in turn be beneficial to the individual's prosperity, but that doesn't make them right. After all, We all don't want to be harmed, are empathetic to those who are harmed, and strive to make a world that's better for ourselves and our fellow man and it's reflected by our political goals and philosophies. No one says "fuck the poor and suffering" (except for Social Darwinists, but I wouldn't consider that a valid name for the philosophy because it isn't Darwinsim, and it isn't social) and is taken seriously because they are sociopathic or psychopathic. By saying that altruism and such action does not a build a better world and more survivable environment (and thus in the interest of the individual) than one of which each individual fends for himself, is factually wrong and morally incorrect.
We can dismiss such claims, just as we dismiss the creationist or the guy who says 2+2=5. You can believe whatever you want, but that doesn't make it fact
Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
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Vidav
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Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
No one has ever said you can't have values without God. Understand what we are talking about. What we are saying is there is no reason why we MUST have those values without God. And that is absolutely correct. At least the existentialists were logically consistent when they claimed that, because there is no God, our existence and ultimately our values were absurd (i.e., no definable reason for those values). The modern secular humanist tries to claim that there are true and objective values without an objective source of those values. That position makes no sense, and saying that those values are "self evident" only invites the question, "Why?"Cap'n Cat wrote:JohnStOnge wrote:Here we go again. You know, I would respect atheists a lot more if they wouldn't try on the one hand to say that there is no "God" (or some higher power or powers) and at the same time talk about intrinsic values as though they think they exist. You can't have it both ways. But, apparently, a lot of atheists like to try. In fact, I have yet to see one who doesn't. They may exist. But I haven't seen them. For some reason they feel compelled to both believe that there is no higher power that sets the rules and at the same tim believe there are intrinsic moral rules.
And it just doesn't work. Now hopefully we won't go through another long thread with people engaging in futile efforts to content that intrinstic right and wrong can be based on things like desire for doing what best for the species, etc.
Yes, here we go again with you and that "one can't have values without God" horse ****. It's something that you shouldn't try to rationalize, St. Wronge. You will only pull a muscle in your brain.
Wrong again.
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youngterrier
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Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
Why is 2+2=4? why is contradiction with using facts self-defeating when making an arguments? Did God tell us these things? After all The bible in 1 Kings says Pi=3, so in some ways Religion somewhat defeats our intuition. I don't need to be told by God that 2+2=4, just as I don't need to be told by God that killing is wrong for me to figure it out on my own.JoltinJoe wrote:No one has ever said you can't have values without God. Understand what we are talking about. What we are saying is there is no reason why we MUST have those values without God. And that is absolutely correct. At least the existentialists were logically consistent when they claimed that, because there is no God, our existence and ultimately our values were absurd (i.e., no definable reason for those values). The modern secular humanist tries to claim that there are true and objective values without an objective source of those values. That position makes no sense, and saying that those values are "self evident" only invites the question, "Why?"Cap'n Cat wrote:
Yes, here we go again with you and that "one can't have values without God" horse ****. It's something that you shouldn't try to rationalize, St. Wronge. You will only pull a muscle in your brain.
Wrong again.
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kalm
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Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
Nice work early on keeping this thread alive Cappy. Now only 614 posts left to go. 
Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
AZGrizFan wrote:Until the mortars start droppin' in.Cap'n Cat wrote: There are no "Gods" in foxholes!
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Dumb, christian reflex.
Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
In your world, Joe. In your catholic cult world.JoltinJoe wrote:No one has ever said you can't have values without God. Understand what we are talking about. What we are saying is there is no reason why we MUST have those values without God. And that is absolutely correct. At least the existentialists were logically consistent when they claimed that, because there is no God, our existence and ultimately our values were absurd (i.e., no definable reason for those values). The modern secular humanist tries to claim that there are true and objective values without an objective source of those values. That position makes no sense, and saying that those values are "self evident" only invites the question, "Why?"Cap'n Cat wrote:
Yes, here we go again with you and that "one can't have values without God" horse ****. It's something that you shouldn't try to rationalize, St. Wronge. You will only pull a muscle in your brain.
Wrong again.
Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
Joe needs God the Dog Trainer in order to be good.youngterrier wrote:Why is 2+2=4? why is contradiction with using facts self-defeating when making an arguments? Did God tell us these things? After all The bible in 1 Kings says Pi=3, so in some ways Religion somewhat defeats our intuition. I don't need to be told by God that 2+2=4, just as I don't need to be told by God that killing is wrong for me to figure it out on my own.JoltinJoe wrote:
No one has ever said you can't have values without God. Understand what we are talking about. What we are saying is there is no reason why we MUST have those values without God. And that is absolutely correct. At least the existentialists were logically consistent when they claimed that, because there is no God, our existence and ultimately our values were absurd (i.e., no definable reason for those values). The modern secular humanist tries to claim that there are true and objective values without an objective source of those values. That position makes no sense, and saying that those values are "self evident" only invites the question, "Why?"
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Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
Actually, it'a dumb HUMAN reflex.D1B wrote:AZGrizFan wrote:
Until the mortars start droppin' in.![]()
Dumb, christian reflex.
You'll be that sorry motherfucker laying on your deathbed apologizing to God for all the smack you threw his way over the years, begging him to let you in.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
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Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
Doubt it Z. Gave up the god shit decades ago. I know it's over when I die and thus I live life to fullest, every day.AZGrizFan wrote:Actually, it'a dumb HUMAN reflex.D1B wrote:
Dumb, christian reflex.
You'll be that sorry motherfucker laying on your deathbed apologizing to God for all the smack you threw his way over the years, begging him to let you in.![]()
I'm a good person who has worked tireless to empower the poor and improve my community.
The christian god is greatest the myth of humanity that has been forced on us with great ruthlessness. It's nice the see people beginning to think for themselves and acting on behalf of man and not fucking jesus and casper the ghost.
Man invented god.
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Vidav
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Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
I have to agree with D. I can promise you I will not utter one word nor spare a thought for God when I am on my deathbed. I will be thinking of my family and that's it.AZGrizFan wrote:Actually, it'a dumb HUMAN reflex.D1B wrote:
Dumb, christian reflex.
You'll be that sorry motherfucker laying on your deathbed apologizing to God for all the smack you threw his way over the years, begging him to let you in.![]()
Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
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There will be a lot of military families saying God Damn Obama after this
I wonder why the majority of Obama Care increases don't kick in until after the election
There will be a lot of military families saying God Damn Obama after this
I wonder why the majority of Obama Care increases don't kick in until after the election
Obama Stabs Military in the Back Once Again
In case groveling apologies to the Islamic savages who assassinate officers aren’t enough to destroy the Armed Forces’ morale, Barack Hussein is trying this:
The Obama administration’s proposed defense budget calls for military families and retirees to pay sharply more for their healthcare, while leaving unionized civilian defense workers’ benefits untouched. …
The disparity in treatment between civilian and uniformed personnel is causing a backlash within the military that could undermine recruitment and retention.
The increases are steep:
According to congressional assessments, a retired Army colonel with a family currently paying $460 a year for health care will pay $2,048.
An added benefit, beyond breaking spirits by showing that their own government is not behind them, is that it will drive servicemen into the arms of ObamaCare.
Administration officials told Congress that one goal of the increased fees is to force military retirees to reduce their involvement in Tricare and eventually opt out of the program in favor of alternatives established by the 2010 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, aka Obamacare.
If you’re in a group favored by Obama, there’s no need to worry.
Leaving civilian workers’ benefits unchanged while hitting the military reflect the administration’s effort to court labor unions, as government unions are the only segment of organized labor that has increased in recent years.
http://freebeacon.com/trashing-tricare/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
What does an athistic, dyslexic, insomniac do at night?
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Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
It would be interesting to compare Earth's religions with those of the thousands of planets we have discovered so far and continue to discover daily.
How you believers can not be embarrassed by your superstitious nonsense is a bit alarming.
How you believers can not be embarrassed by your superstitious nonsense is a bit alarming.
You matter. Unless you multiply yourself by c squared. Then you energy.
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Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
houndawg wrote:It would be interesting to compare Earth's religions with those of the thousands of planets we have discovered so far and continue to discover daily.
How you believers can not be embarrassed by your superstitious nonsense is a bit alarming.
And their self-righteousness, too.
Good points, Hounder.
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houndawg
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Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
Self-righteousness is human, I just don't get how somebody can be serious when they profess to believe the cosmology of a bunch of nomadic goat herders that wandered the desert a couple of thousand years ago.Cap'n Cat wrote:houndawg wrote:It would be interesting to compare Earth's religions with those of the thousands of planets we have discovered so far and continue to discover daily.
How you believers can not be embarrassed by your superstitious nonsense is a bit alarming.
And their self-righteousness, too.
Good points, Hounder.
You matter. Unless you multiply yourself by c squared. Then you energy.
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Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
houndawg wrote:Self-righteousness is human, I just don't get how somebody can be serious when they profess to believe the cosmology of a bunch of nomadic goat herders that wandered the desert a couple of thousand years ago.Cap'n Cat wrote:
And their self-righteousness, too.
Good points, Hounder.
You're positively correct. And, still, the assholes RUN everything and beat the fvck outta you if you question their bullshit!
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Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/atheists01.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And I suppose you idiots will also make fun of my 3 year old cousin who died in the 70s from meningitis who in his small voice told my aunt that he heard "the sweetest music I've ever heard" and that his room was filled with flowers as he took his last breath. I suppose you'll say he was high from the medicine or the disease was affecting his thinking. But that's okay, I know I'll see him someday.
And I suppose you idiots will also make fun of my 3 year old cousin who died in the 70s from meningitis who in his small voice told my aunt that he heard "the sweetest music I've ever heard" and that his room was filled with flowers as he took his last breath. I suppose you'll say he was high from the medicine or the disease was affecting his thinking. But that's okay, I know I'll see him someday.
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Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
catamount man wrote:http://www.near-death.com/experiences/atheists01.html
And I suppose you idiots will also make fun of my 3 year old cousin who died in the 70s from meningitis who in his small voice told my aunt that he heard "the sweetest music I've ever heard" and that his room was filled with flowers as he took his last breath. I suppose you'll say he was high from the medicine or the disease was affecting his thinking. But that's okay, I know I'll see him someday.
You matter. Unless you multiply yourself by c squared. Then you energy.
"I really love America. I just don't know how to get there anymore."John Prine
"I really love America. I just don't know how to get there anymore."John Prine
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Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
what, you think I'm lying?! You wanna grow a pair and talk to me about it?! 
Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
Catman, the kid is a rotted carcass in some cemetery somewhere. The only way you're going to see him is if you dig up his grave. There aint no god and there aint no heaven.catamount man wrote:http://www.near-death.com/experiences/atheists01.html
And I suppose you idiots will also make fun of my 3 year old cousin who died in the 70s from meningitis who in his small voice told my aunt that he heard "the sweetest music I've ever heard" and that his room was filled with flowers as he took his last breath. I suppose you'll say he was high from the medicine or the disease was affecting his thinking. But that's okay, I know I'll see him someday.
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catamount man
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Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
BAN ME!!!!!!!!!! CHRIST AND I WILL HAUNT YOU FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LUKE 16!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
Dude, you're seriously stealing my material. I invented the VBM (Voluntary "Ban Me").catamount man wrote:BAN ME!!!!!!!!!! CHRIST AND I WILL HAUNT YOU FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LUKE 16!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now figure out a different approach, on your own. I've got 5 years into this and I'm not gonna tolerate some 600lb Jelly Roll stealing my shit.
Now fuck off.
Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
Religion is almost exactly like big tobacco.Cap'n Cat wrote:houndawg wrote:It would be interesting to compare Earth's religions with those of the thousands of planets we have discovered so far and continue to discover daily.
How you believers can not be embarrassed by your superstitious nonsense is a bit alarming.
And their self-righteousness, too.
Good points, Hounder.
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Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
D1B wrote:Dude, you're seriously stealing my material. I invented the VBM (Voluntary "Ban Me").catamount man wrote:BAN ME!!!!!!!!!! CHRIST AND I WILL HAUNT YOU FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LUKE 16!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now figure out a different approach, on your own. I've got 5 years into this and I'm not gonna tolerate some 600lb Jelly Roll stealing my shit.
Now fuck off.
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alvin kayak
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Re: Military Atheists: It's About Time!!
There are military chaplains, funded by tax dollars.....just saying. 1st amendment and all that.93henfan wrote:Recognized? There isn't any sort of recognition based on religion (or the lack thereof) in the military. There is no Catholic of the month or Lutheran of the month medal. Should there be an Atheist of the month medal?Cap'n Cat wrote:They just want to be recognized and have the right to dissent.
As far as right to dissent, they have it. Dissent all you want. Just don't do it in a way that hurts morale or unit readiness. Then you're a detriment and should be discharged, the same as anyone else who hurts unit cohesion.
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I am diagnosed as manic-depressive. You have been warned.
I am diagnosed as manic-depressive. You have been warned.






