Military Atheists: It's About Time!!

[Col Hogan]

Meh, this is a non-issue, really. I've been active duty military for the past 15 years......never had religion "forced" onto me. To be honest, no one really cares that much wht your personal beliefs are as long as they don't interfere with your performance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've had a few more than 15 years and never ONCE saw anyone harassed or chided or impacted on their rating because of their religion, or lack there of...

A non-issue being blown out of proportion...


But, what the hell do I know....is what Cap will respond...

[grizzaholic]

Is this a shooting thread or a bible thread?

If it is a shooting thread, I am good at that with pistols.....Vidav can confirm

[houndawg]

Religion was a non-factor during my hitch, in fact my dog tags said I was a Black Muslim. Like 93 I went to church in basic to get out of KP.

[Cap'n Cat]

Good to hear, ex-mils. You're not talking about the substance of the issue. Very few, if any, of you took the time to read about the controversial Rock The Fort event, though.

Thoughts on that, Father Mulcahy?

[JohnStOnge]

Here we go again. You know, I would respect atheists a lot more if they wouldn't try on the one hand to say that there is no "God" (or some higher power or powers) and at the same time talk about intrinsic values as though they think they exist. You can't have it both ways. But, apparently, a lot of atheists like to try. In fact, I have yet to see one who doesn't. They may exist. But I haven't seen them. For some reason they feel compelled to both believe that there is no higher power that sets the rules and at the same tim believe there are intrinsic moral rules.

And it just doesn't work. Now hopefully we won't go through another long thread with people engaging in futile efforts to content that intrinstic right and wrong can be based on things like desire for doing what best for the species, etc.

[Cap'n Cat]

Here we go again. You know, I would respect atheists a lot more if they wouldn't try on the one hand to say that there is no "God" (or some higher power or powers) and at the same time talk about intrinsic values as though they think they exist. You can't have it both ways. But, apparently, a lot of atheists like to try. In fact, I have yet to see one who doesn't. They may exist. But I haven't seen them. For some reason they feel compelled to both believe that there is no higher power that sets the rules and at the same tim believe there are intrinsic moral rules.

And it just doesn't work. Now hopefully we won't go through another long thread with people engaging in futile efforts to content that intrinstic right and wrong can be based on things like desire for doing what best for the species, etc.

Yes, here we go again with you and that "one can't have values without God" horse shit. It's something that you shouldn't try to rationalize, St. Wronge. You will only pull a muscle in your brain.

Wrong again.

[CID1990]

One of the few places in my life where I have seen absolutely no issues over religion was when I was in the military. This is nothing more than an attempt to politicize the debate in the military, but it won't work. The US military has done a much better job of instilling harmony than even the Congress that constantly tries to engineer that same harmony, even though things aren't broken. When you are a soldier, sailor, Marine or airman, you have just about every possible option for worship that you could want, and you also have the option to not have that stuff in your face, also. I assume that is what the non-theists want.

I remember in 2004 near the Al Sadeer hotel in Baghdad, the Mahdi Army was lobbing mortars over us trying to get them to the Green Zone. You could hear them come over, and occasionally there was a short round. I saw a couple guys prostrated out on the ground, one of them was a guy I knew who was not exactly the most religious guy in the world. I don't know if he even professed a religion, but I distinctly heard him saying "Please God".

TBH, this is an ignorant thread to anyone who has ever served anywhere other than a putt putt in flyover country.

[Cap'n Cat]

One of the few places in my life where I have seen absolutely no issues over religion was when I was in the military. This is nothing more than an attempt to politicize the debate in the military, but it won't work. The US military has done a much better job of instilling harmony than even the Congress that constantly tries to engineer that same harmony, even though things aren't broken. When you are a soldier, sailor, Marine or airman, you have just about every possible option for worship that you could want, and you also have the option to not have that stuff in your face, also. I assume that is what the non-theists want.

I remember in 2004 near the Al Sadeer hotel in Baghdad, the Mahdi Army was lobbing mortars over us trying to get them to the Green Zone. You could hear them come over, and occasionally there was a short round. I saw a couple guys prostrated out on the ground, one of them was a guy I knew who was not exactly the most religious guy in the world. I don't know if he even professed a religion, but I distinctly heard him saying "Please God".

TBH, this is an ignorant thread to anyone who has ever served anywhere other than a putt putt in flyover country.

He said "Please, God" because he is conditioned to say that. Nice blanket response, Mort.

[CID1990]

It is entirely probable that it was a conditioned response, but that wasn't the point.

Atheism, Christianity, Islam, you name it... that's all you have when you are on your face and you cannot shoot back. The atheists don't have to endure or listen to it, because it is the last thing on anyone's mind when the sh!t starts coming in. Christians, Muslins, Buddhists, and atheists all sh!t their pants and run for cover. Some just pray while they are doing it. In the world of big deals, this ain't one.

[Cap'n Cat]

It is entirely probable that it was a conditioned response, but that wasn't the point.

Atheism, Christianity, Islam, you name it... that's all you have when you are on your face and you cannot shoot back. The atheists don't have to endure or listen to it, because it is the last thing on anyone's mind when the sh!t starts coming in. Christians, Muslins, Buddhists, and atheists all sh!t their pants and run for cover. Some just pray while they are doing it. In the world of big deals, this ain't one.

Um, go back to the original post. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the Rock The Fort event. Is it forcing Christianity, esp when you are disciplined for not attending??

THAT'S the big deal, mon frere'!

[JohnStOnge]

Yes, here we go again with you and that "one can't have values without God" horse ****. It's something that you shouldn't try to rationalize, St. Wronge. You will only pull a muscle in your brain.

Wrong again.

LOL! I'm not the one pulling a muscle in my brain when it comes to this one. And I'm not the one trying to rationalize. The rationalizations atheists come up with in trying to say there's a basis of morality if their view is correct are priceless.

Just admit that if there is no higher power there is no intrinstic right and wrong. It's not that hard.

Say you're an atheist soldier and it's just you and one other guy. You come upon a situation where you could save his life but you're 100% certain that if you do you're dead. Death means oblivon. The end of your existence as a being. Will there be something "wrong" with you opting to continue your existence? Is anybody going to know? Is there going to be any disadvantage to making the choice to try to live and let him die?

Of course not. And there is absolutely no advantage to making the choice to die so that he can live. You can say before hand, "well we all agree to behave like that because I we all say that if we all try to save each others' lives there's a greater chance that more of us can survive."

But now it's just you. And if you die that's it. Plus there's nothing intrinsically "wrong" with going back on whatever tacit agreement you made. The consequences of doing what you may have said beforehand is the "right" thing are certainly a lot worse than the consequences do what you said beforehand is the "wrong" thing.

[Cap'n Cat]

Yes, here we go again with you and that "one can't have values without God" horse ****. It's something that you shouldn't try to rationalize, St. Wronge. You will only pull a muscle in your brain.

Wrong again.

LOL! I'm not the one pulling a muscle in my brain when it comes to this one. And I'm not the one trying to rationalize. The rationalizations atheists come up with in trying to say there's a basis of morality if their view is correct are priceless.

Just admit that if there is no higher power there is no intrinstic right and wrong. It's not that hard.

Say you're an atheist soldier and it's just you and one other guy. You come upon a situation where you could save his life but you're 100% certain that if you do you're dead. Death means oblivon. Then end of your existence as a being. Will their be something "wrong" with you opting to continue your existence? Is anybody going to know? Is there going to be any disadvantage to making the choice to try to live and let him die?

Of course not. And there is absolutely no advantage to making the choice to die so that he can live. You can say before hand, "well we all agree to behave like that because I we all say that if we all try to save each others' lives there's a greater chance that more of us can survive."

But now it's just you. And if you die that's it. Plus there's nothing intrinsically "wrong" with going back on whatever tacit agreement you made. The consequences of doing what you may have said beforehand is the "right" think are certainly a lot worse than the consequences do what you said beforehand is the "wrong" thing.

You're wrong, again, St. Wronge. Not to mention arrogant. Your God has nothing to do with morality for we non-believers. You're one of the brainwashed masses, unfortunately.

[JohnStOnge]

You're wrong, again, St. Wronge. Not to mention arrogant. Your God has nothing to do with morality for we non-believers.

Well it looks like we're on the verge of another long thread. Explain your basis for saying there is intrinsic right and wrong.

[catamount man]

there is not one atheist in this world as they are taking their last breath that does not call upon God's name. Not one and none of the supposed atheists on this board will leave this world either without calling out to him in death. God's law is written upon the innermost reaches of the heart and the human soul. To deny it, is to live in outright rebellion. For pete's sake, I got more respect for a dark lord, blood and guts, horn saluting Satanist than I do an atheist.

Even demons believe in God. Bottom line, I refuse to have some atheist protecting my ass. I would rather a muslim shoot me than to say a fool defending what freedoms I have left after Obama rapes us of them.

[EWURanger]

there is not one atheist in this world as they are taking their last breath that does not call upon God's name. Not one and none of the supposed atheists on this board will leave this world either without calling out to him in death. God's law is written upon the innermost reaches of the heart and the human soul. To deny it, is to live in outright rebellion. For pete's sake, I got more respect for a dark lord, blood and guts, horn saluting Satanist than I do an atheist.

Even demons believe in God. Bottom line, I refuse to have some atheist protecting my ass. I would rather a muslim shoot me than to say a fool defending what freedoms I have left after Obama rapes us of them.

Are you serious with this stuff?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[catamount man]

EXTREMELY SERIOUS!!! You will acknowledge the Almighty somehow, someway before you take your last breath.

[Seahawks08]

there is not one atheist in this world as they are taking their last breath that does not call upon God's name. Not one and none of the supposed atheists on this board will leave this world either without calling out to him in death. God's law is written upon the innermost reaches of the heart and the human soul. To deny it, is to live in outright rebellion. For pete's sake, I got more respect for a dark lord, blood and guts, horn saluting Satanist than I do an atheist.

Even demons believe in God. Bottom line, I refuse to have some atheist protecting my ass. I would rather a muslim shoot me than to say a fool defending what freedoms I have left after Obama rapes us of them.

[grizzaholic]

EXTREMELY SERIOUS!!! You will acknowledge the Almighty somehow, someway before you take your last breath.

What about the abortions? Do they acknowledge THE ALMIGHTY before they die?

[catamount man]

They are guided by the angels back into the kingdom of God. they are the same as the martyrs who cry under God's Altar as seen in Revelation 5, awaiting the day when the Almighty unleashes his fury upon the minions of Satan who took their lives.

[griz37]

They are guided by the angels back into the kingdom of God. they are the same as the martyrs who cry under God's Altar as seen in Revelation 5, awaiting the day when the Almighty unleashes his fury upon the minions of Satan who took their lives.

Vengeful little fuckers, aren't they?

[grizzaholic]

They are guided by the angels back into the kingdom of God. they are the same as the martyrs who cry under God's Altar as seen in Revelation 5, awaiting the day when the Almighty unleashes his fury upon the minions of Satan who took their lives.

I am waiting for the ZOMBIES to take hold of us all.....

[catamount man]

They are guided by the angels back into the kingdom of God. they are the same as the martyrs who cry under God's Altar as seen in Revelation 5, awaiting the day when the Almighty unleashes his fury upon the minions of Satan who took their lives.

Vengeful little ****, aren't they?

I did not mean to imply that they are the only martyrs under God's Altar. Basically anyone that has suffered martyrdom for Christ is there.

[Vidav]

Vengeful little ****, aren't they?

I did not mean to imply that they are the only martyrs under God's Altar. Basically anyone that has suffered martyrdom for Christ is there.

You are a crazy motherfucker. Seriously. Like fucking batshit crazy.

[youngterrier]

The intrinsic rightness or wrongness of morality or moral structures is just as self evident as a science as physics, medicine, biology, or chemistry. We may not know the absolute right answers, but the wrong answers are pretty easy to spot.

JSO isn't welcome in the conversation of morality because he doesn't believe that helping people in turn is more beneficial to the individual than standing alone (think united we stand, divide we fall). He denies that empathy or altruism are "natural" in human beings which is really fucking hilarious, considering he says he believes in Darwinism, yet clearly he doesn't understand it if he holds that fact to be true. By implying humans only inhibit behavior to survive is laughable to say the least (explain smoking tobacco or other recreational drugs?).

One can deny that the golden rule will in turn be beneficial to the individual's prosperity, but that doesn't make them right. After all, We all don't want to be harmed, are empathetic to those who are harmed, and strive to make a world that's better for ourselves and our fellow man and it's reflected by our political goals and philosophies. No one says "fuck the poor and suffering" (except for Social Darwinists, but I wouldn't consider that a valid name for the philosophy because it isn't Darwinsim, and it isn't social) and is taken seriously because they are sociopathic or psychopathic. By saying that altruism and such action does not a build a better world and more survivable environment (and thus in the interest of the individual) than one of which each individual fends for himself, is factually wrong and morally incorrect.

We can dismiss such claims, just as we dismiss the creationist or the guy who says 2+2=5. You can believe whatever you want, but that doesn't make it fact

[griz37]

Vengeful little ****, aren't they?

I did not mean to imply that they are the only martyrs under God's Altar. Basically anyone that has suffered martyrdom for Christ is there.

So what happens to the martyrs after god kills everyone? Is that where the virgins come into play?