I like Fox News, but...

[bluehenbillk]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/10/ ... etter-off/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When they publish non-sensical opinion drivel like this I want to throw my keyboard through the window..

The middle class is better today than 30 years ago because...

for families with income in the middle 20 percent, there have been noticeable improvements in the homes they live in and the cars they drive. Living units are bigger and are much more likely to have air conditioning and other features. The quality of the cars that these families own has also improved considerably. The data are clear: middle-class Americans are better off today than they were three decades ago

Please.. that's your friggin argument?? How about the fact that peoples home values have plummeted and homes are still being foreclosed on and sold in short sales in record numbers but hey, homes are bigger & have central air now!!! These guys obviously didn't talk to people in FL or NV. Quality of cars? Same gas mileage basically as 30 years ago but the cars cost 5-6 times as much. Oh, and the quality cars are still foreign-made, but yea, that makes the middle class better off.

[travelinman67]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/10/ ... etter-off/

When they publish non-sensical opinion drivel like this I want to throw my keyboard through the window..

The middle class is better today than 30 years ago because...

for families with income in the middle 20 percent, there have been noticeable improvements in the homes they live in and the cars they drive. Living units are bigger and are much more likely to have air conditioning and other features. The quality of the cars that these families own has also improved considerably. The data are clear: middle-class Americans are better off today than they were three decades ago

Please.. that's your friggin argument?? How about the fact that peoples home values have plummeted and homes are still being foreclosed on and sold in short sales in record numbers but hey, homes are bigger & have central air now!!! These guys obviously didn't talk to people in FL or NV. Quality of cars? Same gas mileage basically as 30 years ago but the cars cost 5-6 times as much. Oh, and the quality cars are still foreign-made, but yea, that makes the middle class better off.

Agreed. It's this type of Limbaughian-Ostrich nonsense that damages all conservative credibility.

[ASUG8]

You have to bounce around from site to site to get something bordering on an objective perspective on things. I hit ABC, CBS, Fox, CNN, the Guardian, MSNBC, Reuters, even Yahoo regularly just to minimize some of the spin.

[AZGrizFan]

60% of foreclosures are voluntary. Imagine how much less impactful this self-created financial crisis would be if people just had a moral backbone.

[SuperHornet]

T-man: Ostrich?

AZ: Not that I agree with the idea (I patently don't as I fully believe that one's word should be one's bond), but many see banks walking away from investment real estate loans with impunity and wonder why they shouldn't be allowed to do the same. In other words, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. The logic makes sense if one merely speaks of fairness. However, I think there's a faulty premise in there that the banks SHOULD be allowed to do that. I don't know if I'll ever be in a position to have a home loan (it's looking pretty bleak for that right now), but if I do, I'll repay it if it's the last thing I ever do. Walking away from a promise is NOT in my vocabulary....

[kalm]

60% of foreclosures are voluntary. Imagine how much less impactful this self-created financial crisis would be if people just had a moral backbone.

I don't disagree with your take on this, but from a business perspective, doesn't bankruptcy protection also encourage risk taking. Comparing individuals to business interests, what's good for the goose...

[SuperHornet]

60% of foreclosures are voluntary. Imagine how much less impactful this self-created financial crisis would be if people just had a moral backbone.

I don't disagree with your take on this, but from a business perspective, doesn't bankruptcy protection also encourage risk taking. Comparing individuals to business interests, what's good for the goose...

Hey! That was MY line!

[kalm]

I don't disagree with your take on this, but from a business perspective, doesn't bankruptcy protection also encourage risk taking. Comparing individuals to business interests, what's good for the goose...

Hey! That was MY line!

Oops Sorry SH.

[grizzaholic]

[JohnStOnge]

The problem is that what you quoted was not the author's only basis for saying the middle class is better off now. For instance, the author stated this:

Median income and consumption have both risen by more than 50 percent in real terms.

Also, the fact that there are a record number of foreclosures does not automatically mean that the "middle class," if it is reasonably definted, is not better off now on average.

[grizzaholic]

The problem is that what you quoted was not the author's only basis for saying the middle class is better off now. For instance, the author stated this:

Median income and consumption have both risen by more than 50 percent in real terms.

Also, the fact that there are a record number of foreclosures does not automatically mean that the "middle class," if it is reasonably definted, is not better off now on average.

NO...what I posted was some ta'tas.

[JohnStOnge]

Now why, oh WHY, would you have posted that picture? Hmmmm. I think it may be on the left side. I'm not sure, but maybe so.

[kalm]

The problem is that what you quoted was not the author's only basis for saying the middle class is better off now. For instance, the author stated this:

Median income and consumption have both risen by more than 50 percent in real terms.

Also, the fact that there are a record number of foreclosures does not automatically mean that the "middle class," if it is reasonably definted, is not better off now on average.

So consumption and income cancel each other out while the cost of higher education and health insurance have skyrocketed.

[JohnStOnge]

So consumption and income cancel each other out while the cost of higher education and health insurance have skyrocketed.

I don't know ow old you are. And I'm not saying that there aren't some aspects of life that are more difficult now than they were 20 or 40 years ago. Higher education tutition is one of them.

Also, 20 years ago is 1992. I think 1993 was better than 1992 and things continued to get better through the 1990s as far as how the "typical" American was doing.

BUT, there is no reasonable doubt that the "typical" American right now is better off in a material sense in terms of what they experience in day to day life than the "typical" American was during most of the history of this country. And that includes when I was growing up during the 1960s ans 1970s.

[YoUDeeMan]

The problem is that what you quoted was not the author's only basis for saying the middle class is better off now. For instance, the author stated this:



Also, the fact that there are a record number of foreclosures does not automatically mean that the "middle class," if it is reasonably definted, is not better off now on average.

So consumption and income cancel each other out while the cost of higher education and health insurance have skyrocketed.

The cost of higher education should be excluded from this conversation. It has been artificially inflated for many reasons that would make both Libs and Cons blush if they had any morals.

As far the increased cost of health insurance goes...what are we getting for our money? It used to be that cancer killed you...now many people can be saved by early detection and chemo/radiation treatment. Have a different problem? Well, now you can take a pill...or several of them...or have an operation that might not have been available 20 years ago. High blood pressure? Take a series of pills and live (or develop other complications..or die), or live (or die) with it the old way.

I remember Aspergum...WTF happend to that stuff?

Anyway, medicine isn't what it used to be...and who pays for those advances....should that be free?

[kalm]

So consumption and income cancel each other out while the cost of higher education and health insurance have skyrocketed.

The cost of higher education should be excluded from this conversation. It has been artificially inflated for many reasons that would make both Libs and Cons blush if they had any morals.

As far the increased cost of health insurance goes...what are we getting for our money? It used to be that cancer killed you...now many people can be saved by early detection and chemo/radiation treatment. Have a different problem? Well, now you can take a pill...or several of them...or have an operation that might not have been available 20 years ago. High blood pressure? Take a series of pills and live (or develop other complications..or die), or live (or die) with it the old way.

I remember Aspergum...WTF happend to that stuff?

Anyway, medicine isn't what it used to be...and who pays for those advances....should that be free?

True, to a certain extent. I had the same cancer in the late 1990's that my cousin had in the early 80's. He was hospitalized for 80 days with it, I had outpatient surgery and a few radiation treatments. Then again, he was in the Airforce so his treatment ultimately cost the tax payers. 80 days in the hospital now would bankrupt many people even with insurance.

It's a complicated issue for sure and while I agree with JSO on being better off materially that's not the only measure. We have spent our way via the government to maintain or increase that standard of living and, prior to the crash, the middle class was doing it through private debt as well. Now, the middle class is shrinking.

A study this week out of Stanford University shows that only around 44 percent of families in America live in what the country considers middle-income neighborhoods, down from the 1970 statistic of 65 percent. At the same time, while only 15 percent of the country was grouped into either the lower- or upper-class four decades ago, that proportion has more than doubles with a third of America now in either end of the spectrum.

http://rt.com/usa/news/america-class-study-middle-521/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[YoUDeeMan]

It's a complicated issue for sure and while I agree with JSO on being better off materially that's not the only measure. We have spent our way via the government to maintain or increase that standard of living and, prior to the crash, the middle class was doing it through private debt as well. Now, the middle class is shrinking.

A study this week out of Stanford University shows that only around 44 percent of families in America live in what the country considers middle-income neighborhoods, down from the 1970 statistic of 65 percent. At the same time, while only 15 percent of the country was grouped into either the lower- or upper-class four decades ago, that proportion has more than doubles with a third of America now in either end of the spectrum.

http://rt.com/usa/news/america-class-study-middle-521/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Studies like these drive me crazy. Does the study break down the fact that America is aging and that many seniors don't need to pull in a lot of income? Does the study break down the number of single parent households (a choice) these days compared to the 1970s? I could go on and on, but a shrinking middle class does not mean America is going to hell in a hand basket and it certainly doesn't mean that people haven't willingly put themselves into their position.

[Cap'n Cat]

Conks are understandably scared. Whites from Western Europe stopped emigrating decades ago and they have to work with blacks and Mexicans for rule of this country. Me, I like the diversity and what America is becoming!

[YoUDeeMan]

Cappy...no one should give a crap about the white on black thing...but you had a choice to post a picture of the man's azz or the woman's azz.

Very disappointed in your choice.


Unless, of course, it is a truly heart felt attempt by you to woo over jiffyjeff...nobody here will cvck block your attempts to flirt.

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

Now why, oh WHY, would you have posted that picture? Hmmmm. I think it may be on the left side. I'm not sure, but maybe so.

They look pretty equal to me. But I'd need a closer, hands on inspection to tell for sure.