Keeping teacher pay low is a biblical principle.

[kalm]

Very informative post Clenz, thank you.

Teaching is one of the more important jobs in society. Anytime you're dealing with other people's shit you should be payed comfortably. It's certainly more important than banking.

I'm making the American Dream come true, are teachers?

Depends on how you define the American Dream.

[CAA Flagship]

Imagine if all of the private schools closed and all of those kids enrolled in public schools. The teachers would have a boat load of more students but the salary budget would not change since private school families pay the same taxes as public school familes. Then there would be a need for more space so taxes would go up to pay for school expansions and additional teachers. Still no salary increases.


Thank Andy for low taxes.

[89Hen]

I'm making the American Dream come true, are teachers?

Depends on how you define the American Dream.

Living in a house you can't afford.

[kalm]

Depends on how you define the American Dream.

Living in a house you can't afford.

[93henfan]

I graduated with a degree in education in '93. Starting teacher pay at the time was $19K/yr. I joined the Marine Corps. If you're going to get paid shit, you may as well have fun doing it.

[andy7171]

I graduated with a degree in education in '93. Starting teacher pay at the time was $19K/yr. I joined the Marine Corps. If you're going to get paid shit, you may as well have fun doing it.

...in Slower Delaware. My wife started teaching in PG County at $29K. Pretty sure MoCo is tops in the start starting over 30K HoCo isn't far behind.

You want to talk about crappy teacher pay, look at the private schools.

[89Hen]

I graduated with a degree in education in '93. Starting teacher pay at the time was $19K/yr. I joined the Marine Corps. If you're going to get paid shit, you may as well have fun doing it.

...in Slower Delaware. My wife started teaching in PG County at $29K. Pretty sure MoCo is tops in the start starting over 30K HoCo isn't far behind.

You want to talk about crappy teacher pay, look at the private schools.

Fairfax County, VA starts at $44,440 for a new teacher with a BA/BS and $49,928 with a Masters.

[∞∞∞]

I graduated with a degree in education in '93. Starting teacher pay at the time was $19K/yr. I joined the Marine Corps. If you're going to get paid shit, you may as well have fun doing it.

...in Slower Delaware. My wife started teaching in PG County at $29K. Pretty sure MoCo is tops in the start starting over 30K HoCo isn't far behind.

You want to talk about crappy teacher pay, look at the private schools.

Exactly, and yet kids in private schools often outperform kids in public schools. Increasing pay isn't going to help because in the end it comes down to how well the child is parented. Usually parents who enroll children in private kids are more often involved and that's why they succeed. But even in public schools, a good kid will succeed regardless of the teachers. Again, parenting is key and the teachers are simply supplementary material.

[89Hen]

Exactly, and yet kids in private schools often outperform kids in public schools. Increasing pay isn't going to help because in the end it comes down to how well the child is parented. Usually parents who enroll children in private kids are more often involved and that's why they succeed.

I want to agree with you, but maybe a more accurate statement is the parents of many private school kids have the resouces to pay for additional resources to help them succeed. Many private school parents don't get their hands dirty with the kids.

[andy7171]

Exactly, and yet kids in private schools often outperform kids in public schools. Increasing pay isn't going to help because in the end it comes down to how well the child is parented. Usually parents who enroll children in private kids are more often involved and that's why they succeed.

I want to agree with you, but maybe a more accurate statement is the parents of many private school kids have the resouces to pay for additional resources to help them succeed. Many private school parents don't get their hands dirty with the kids.

Not the case for me, definately.

[89Hen]

I want to agree with you, but maybe a more accurate statement is the parents of many private school kids have the resouces to pay for additional resources to help them succeed. Many private school parents don't get their hands dirty with the kids.

Not the case for me, definately.

The resources, or the hands dirty?

Remember, it's TIME, talent and treasure. You don't have to give all three.

[Wedgebuster]

Come to Wyoming teachers, high pay scale together with low cost of living equals teacher heaven, and you do not even have to be good either.

[GannonFan]

Come to Wyoming teachers, high pay scale together with low cost of living equals teacher heaven, and you do not even have to be good either.

Which is the complication in the whole discussion - there are plenty of places in America where teachers are paid little to nothing and have crappy benefits to boot. And then there are places where teachers are paid royally and have benefits (healthcare, retirement) that people would love to have. It's not monolithic.

[CAA Flagship]

Come to Wyoming teachers, high pay scale together with low cost of living equals teacher heaven, and you do not even have to be good either.

Which is the complication in the whole discussion - there are plenty of places in America where teachers are paid little to nothing and have crappy benefits to boot. And then there are places where teachers are paid royally and have benefits (healthcare, retirement) that people would love to have. It's not monolithic.

Are you stating a fact here or do you think it should be monolithic?
IMO, it should vary with the cost of living in the area, like any other occupation.

[YoUDeeMan]

Like someone said above, teachers are doing their job 24/7/365.

That is an idiotic, self-pitying, asinine, and incorrect statement. Anyone who puts out lies to advance their cause should not be teaching our children. You just lost all credibility on this board and I hope you never get the chance to influence any children with your pathetic attitude.

My wife's a teacher...my mother was a teacher (retired)...my mother-in-law is a teacher...my cousin is a teacher...and the list goes on.

Teachers that are taking courses are doing so to raise their pay. Good for them...but don't give me the line that they are working 24 hours/day and don't throw out the bvllshvt that they are working 7 days/week and 365 days per year.

[Vidav]

Like someone said above, teachers are doing their job 24/7/365.

That is an idiotic, self-pitying, asinine, and incorrect statement. Anyone who puts out lies to advance their cause should not be teaching our children. You just lost all credibility on this board and I hope you never get the chance to influence any children with your pathetic attitude.

My wife's a teacher...my mother was a teacher (retired)...my mother-in-law is a teacher...my cousin is a teacher...and the list goes on.

Teachers that are taking courses are doing so to raise their pay. Good for them...but don't give me the line that they are working 24 hours/day and don't throw out the bvllshvt that they are working 7 days/week and 365 days per year.

[Pwns]

Why is it always about whether TEACHERS are overpaid or underpaid and not about WHICH teachers are overpaid and underpaid?

There are many gym teachers, english teachers, and evolutionary biology teachers that make way too much money but with that same salary it's next to impossible to get people to get an engineering or physics degree to teach because the salaries don't compare with that they can get in the private sector.

[GannonFan]

Which is the complication in the whole discussion - there are plenty of places in America where teachers are paid little to nothing and have crappy benefits to boot. And then there are places where teachers are paid royally and have benefits (healthcare, retirement) that people would love to have. It's not monolithic.

Are you stating a fact here or do you think it should be monolithic?
IMO, it should vary with the cost of living in the area, like any other occupation.

I agree that it should vary with cost of living of the area, but currently it varies beyond that - there are plenty of areas in the country where relative to that area teachers are poorly paid, and vice versa with teachers paid handsomedly relative to the area.

[mainejeff]

Very informative post Clenz, thank you.

Teaching is one of the more important jobs in society. Anytime you're dealing with other people's **** you should be payed comfortably. It's certainly more important than banking.

I'm making the American Dream come true, are teachers?

American Nightmare is more like it.

[clenz]

Like someone said above, teachers are doing their job 24/7/365.

That is an idiotic, self-pitying, asinine, and incorrect statement. Anyone who puts out lies to advance their cause should not be teaching our children. You just lost all credibility on this board and I hope you never get the chance to influence any children with your pathetic attitude.

My wife's a teacher...my mother was a teacher (retired)...my mother-in-law is a teacher...my cousin is a teacher...and the list goes on.

Teachers that are taking courses are doing so to raise their pay. Good for them...but don't give me the line that they are working 24 hours/day and don't throw out the bvllshvt that they are working 7 days/week and 365 days per year.

Completely true.


It sounds as though MSUDuo is still in college so he is under the "What the professor tells me is how I will do it and how it is done" mentality. The fact is that once a teacher has their lesson plan set, it almost never changes. There may be tweaks here or there but for the most part by the end of your first year you are completely set. I have 7 family members (Between my side and my wife's side) that are teaching or taught for 30+ years and recently retired. The last time my mother-in-law or aunt (who also just retired after 30+ years of teaching) changed their lesson plan was not in the last decade - other than some updates to keep up with modern events (both were social studies teachers). Math teachers never have to change their lesson plan, English teachers rarely have to change their lesson plan, shop teachers never do, accounting/business teachers (At the HS level) rarely have to update their lesson plans.

It's the same thing that college professors do....have you ever had a professor hand you a syllabus and the semester listed on it was 8 semesters ago....when asked about it the professor admits he doesn't change anything so there is no need to change the syllabus. It's the same thing...heck a lot of new teachers get their help setting their lesson plan from other teachers currently in the school who have taught that subject and what not. Shit, give me a text book and I can put together a full year's lesson plan....

Here's a hint if you are still in college - the real world works almost nothing like you are taught in college. I don't have a business degree but am a manager of 4 departments where I work in the retail world....I was hired the same time as a kid with a business degree....I caught onto how the company worked faster than the other guy (and some people who had been there much longer than I who had business degrees) because they were trying to do it "by the book". My supervisor admitted to me part of the reason he hired me was because I had no preconceived notion of how business should be done and he could teach me how things actually worked without having that "roadblock" to overcome. Now, that isn't to say that someone at a Fortune500 company is going to hire someone with no business background, but it goes to show that the way you are taught things is rarely how it actually works. The same way in the education field. I was amazed watching my friends go through the education program and say "I'm going to do things this way" and now 2 years out and teaching they are doing things exactly the opposite way because that is the way the real world works.


Teaching, like most social service jobs, is thankless and for the most part sucks. However, to say it is a 24/7/365 job is just stupid.

[MSUDuo]

That is an idiotic, self-pitying, asinine, and incorrect statement. Anyone who puts out lies to advance their cause should not be teaching our children. You just lost all credibility on this board and I hope you never get the chance to influence any children with your pathetic attitude.

My wife's a teacher...my mother was a teacher (retired)...my mother-in-law is a teacher...my cousin is a teacher...and the list goes on.

Teachers that are taking courses are doing so to raise their pay. Good for them...but don't give me the line that they are working 24 hours/day and don't throw out the bvllshvt that they are working 7 days/week and 365 days per year.

Completely true.


It sounds as though MSUDuo is still in college so he is under the "What the professor tells me is how I will do it and how it is done" mentality. The fact is that once a teacher has their lesson plan set, it almost never changes. There may be tweaks here or there but for the most part by the end of your first year you are completely set. I have 7 family members (Between my side and my wife's side) that are teaching or taught for 30+ years and recently retired. The last time my mother-in-law or aunt (who also just retired after 30+ years of teaching) changed their lesson plan was not in the last decade - other than some updates to keep up with modern events (both were social studies teachers). Math teachers never have to change their lesson plan, English teachers rarely have to change their lesson plan, shop teachers never do, accounting/business teachers (At the HS level) rarely have to update their lesson plans.

It's the same thing that college professors do....have you ever had a professor hand you a syllabus and the semester listed on it was 8 semesters ago....when asked about it the professor admits he doesn't change anything so there is no need to change the syllabus. It's the same thing...heck a lot of new teachers get their help setting their lesson plan from other teachers currently in the school who have taught that subject and what not. ****, give me a text book and I can put together a full year's lesson plan....

Here's a hint if you are still in college - the real world works almost nothing like you are taught in college. I don't have a business degree but am a manager of 4 departments where I work in the retail world....I was hired the same time as a kid with a business degree....I caught onto how the company worked faster than the other guy (and some people who had been there much longer than I who had business degrees) because they were trying to do it "by the book". My supervisor admitted to me part of the reason he hired me was because I had no preconceived notion of how business should be done and he could teach me how things actually worked without having that "roadblock" to overcome. Now, that isn't to say that someone at a Fortune500 company is going to hire someone with no business background, but it goes to show that the way you are taught things is rarely how it actually works. The same way in the education field. I was amazed watching my friends go through the education program and say "I'm going to do things this way" and now 2 years out and teaching they are doing things exactly the opposite way because that is the way the real world works.


Teaching, like most social service jobs, is thankless and for the most part sucks. However, to say it is a 24/7/365 job is just stupid.

I'll actually keep that in mind.

However, my Dads entire side of the family are teachers so I'm not completely out of the loop here. My aunts put more hours in each week than my Dad who works 50-60 hours. Plus they do summer school and extra curricular programs as well

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

[clenz]

You aunt is the in the extreme minority then. Like I said, teachers aren't really required to do anything extra...maybe "bus duty" or recess duty here or there....and grading papers/tests outside of school.

I'm just saying that while the job is thankless to say that teachers are underpaid/overworked is an overstatement in many ways.

[Wedgebuster]

I see only one flaw here and that is that schools just do not emulate real world experience. All college graduates find this out right away when they enter the work force that is except those majoring in education. These folks were introduced to schools, probably public, when they were 5 or 6 years old and never really leave the comfort zone that exists there.

In my experiences, my very best public schools educators had some experience outside of the classroom, either in the military or in the private work place. This was big time noticeable in College where I studied business, the ones that had actually been in the business world had the insight to teach practically, those teaching theory could not.

Now, my school is a large education factory, and many of those I associated with, roomed with, etc were in education.

To say they had a large load to carry, or in anyway a super difficult curriculum is downright hilarious, no shit, hilarious!

[Grizalltheway]

Take a look at the Finnish education model if get a chance, it's pretty fascinating.

[CID1990]

Having spent a little time in my cop days as a backup school resource officer, I would tend to agree that teacher salaries are low. Plus, it IS a thankless job. I never went into teaching because I knew it would only take me a short time before I got fed up and knocked the fvck out of some a$$hole kid or administrator.

Most men in teaching gravitate towards the non-teaching administrative jobs because the actual teaching just doesn't pay. I got out of law enforcement for a number of reasons, but one of the main reasons was I could not support a family on the pay. Teachers in my county who had the same amount of time in as I did were making significantly less.

I can think of a number of areas we could cut in order to better fund teacher salaries. However, not every state has pauper teachers. In several unionized states, the starting pay is only slightly better, but those teachers' benefit packages and pay tend to top out much higher and much sooner. Plus, there's not a whole lot of accountability for teachers in those districts. Bad teachers (and they are as pletiful as the stars) generally do not need to fear for their jobs.