Rick Santorum......World Class Prick

[89Hen]

You seem to make a lot of assumptions about people and make blanket statements. Obviously, you feel vastly superior to the rest of us.....

Post of the year.

[EWURanger]

I've got a friend here in PA:
-full time job with no bennies/health insurance
-makes too much to get medicaid
-probably couldn't afford private insurance (he's close to 60)
And he is covered by some PA state program. He mentioned it once- forgot the name of it, but wasn't medicaid I don't think. He's got Crohn's disease, and has had almost everything paid for.

Between people with insurance, on medicaid, medicare, CHIP, other state programs, etc and excluding illegals, 90-95% have some form of coverage.

I've known a few people that are in similar situations as the one you described above, so I can appreciate the fact that there are a lot of people that, between various programs, are able to make things work. What I would say is that, at best, it's a very convoluted system that requires people to go through an inordinate amount of bureaucracy to get what they need.

I think we probably just have a fundamental difference of opinion on this. If we assume that your (90-95%) figure is correct, to have even 10% of people in this country uninsured or unable to afford basic health care is unacceptable to me. It's embarrassing, actually. IMO, the current "for-profit" system is not working - how much longer will Health Care costs continue to spiral out of control before even larger percentages of people will be unable to afford coverage? There is data to support this trend - health care costs have risen sharply in the last decade, and will continue to do so barring more government regulation or a fundamental change in the system.

Like I said, I'm far from a class warrior. I came from an upper-middle class family, and with the exception of a few years in college and a couple years entering the work force, I've never really struggled to make ends meet, and I've never been without health care coverage. That said, I also know that I've worked for everything I have now, so I definitely understand people having a problem with the "entitlement mentality" that seems so prevalent in our society today. I have a problem with it as well. But I just have a hard time placing this argument in that scenario, and I think it's worth asking ourselves as a collective group why we are the only 1st-world country on earth that does not have some form of nationalized health care system. I'd be fine with some sort of blend between public and private systems - it doesn't need to be the NHS in the UK or the Canadian Health Care system, but the status quo is not working in this country and I'm not alone in that belief.

One thing I've come to realize is that we're definitely a country of individuals in the U.S. That's not always a bad thing, and we've definitely reaped many rewards from having that mentality. I just think at some point we as a society have to look at what's right as a collective "we" rather than an individual "me". Health Care is definitely one of those issues.

[kalm]

I've got a friend here in PA:
-full time job with no bennies/health insurance
-makes too much to get medicaid
-probably couldn't afford private insurance (he's close to 60)
And he is covered by some PA state program. He mentioned it once- forgot the name of it, but wasn't medicaid I don't think. He's got Crohn's disease, and has had almost everything paid for.

Between people with insurance, on medicaid, medicare, CHIP, other state programs, etc and excluding illegals, 90-95% have some form of coverage.

I've known a few people that are in similar situations as the one you described above, so I can appreciate the fact that there are a lot of people that, between various programs, are able to make things work. What I would say is that, at best, it's a very convoluted system that requires people to go through an inordinate amount of bureaucracy to get what they need.

I think we probably just have a fundamental difference of opinion on this. If we assume that your (90-95%) figure is correct, to have even 10% of people in this country uninsured or unable to afford basic health care is unacceptable to me. It's embarrassing, actually. IMO, the current "for-profit" system is not working - how much longer will Health Care costs continue to spiral out of control before even larger percentages of people will be unwilling to afford coverage? There is data to support this trend - health care costs have risen sharply in the last decade, and will continue to do so barring more government regulation or a fundamental change in the system.

Like I said, I'm far from a class warrior. I came from an upper-middle class family, and with the exception of a few years in college and a couple years entering the work force, I've never really struggled to make ends meet, and I've never been without health care coverage. That said, I also know that I've worked for everything I have now, so I definitely understand people having a problem with the "entitlement mentality" that seems so prevalent in our society today. I have a problem with it as well. But I just have a hard time placing this argument in that scenario, and I think it's worth asking ourselves as a collective group why we are the only 1st-world country on earth that does not have some form of nationalized health care system. I'd be fine with some sort of blend between public and private systems - it doesn't need to be the NHS in the UK or the Canadian Health Care system, but the status quo is not working in this country and I'm not alone in that belief.

One thing I've come to realize is that we're definitely a country of individuals in the U.S. That's not always a bad thing, and we've definitely reaped many rewards from having that mentality. I just think at some point we as a society have to look at what's right as a collective "we" rather than an individual "me". Health Care is definitely one of those issues.

Pst, Ranger. I'd shy away from that word "collective". It causes heads to explode and commie accusations to fly. Besides, Daniel Boone didn't need health insurance.

[mainejeff]

You seem to make a lot of assumptions about people and make blanket statements. Obviously, you feel vastly superior to the rest of us.....

Post of the year.

How was Chuck E. Cheese this weekend?

[89Hen]

Post of the year.

How was Chuck E. Cheese this weekend?

We decided to take our twin 5 year old nephews to a nice restaurant instead. They were throwing food, yelling, running around the whole time, pulling tablecloths off gay couple's tables... It was awesome!

[mainejeff]

How was Chuck E. Cheese this weekend?

We decided to take our twin 5 year old nephews to a nice restaurant instead. They were throwing food, yelling, running around the whole time, pulling tablecloths off gay couple's tables... It was awesome!

Classy.

[BDKJMU]

I've got a friend here in PA:
-full time job with no bennies/health insurance
-makes too much to get medicaid
-probably couldn't afford private insurance (he's close to 60)
And he is covered by some PA state program. He mentioned it once- forgot the name of it, but wasn't medicaid I don't think. He's got Crohn's disease, and has had almost everything paid for.

Between people with insurance, on medicaid, medicare, CHIP, other state programs, etc and excluding illegals, 90-95% have some form of coverage.

I've known a few people that are in similar situations as the one you described above, so I can appreciate the fact that there are a lot of people that, between various programs, are able to make things work. What I would say is that, at best, it's a very convoluted system that requires people to go through an inordinate amount of bureaucracy to get what they need.

I think we probably just have a fundamental difference of opinion on this. If we assume that your (90-95%) figure is correct, to have even 10% of people in this country uninsured or unable to afford basic health care is unacceptable to me. It's embarrassing, actually. IMO, the current "for-profit" system is not working - how much longer will Health Care costs continue to spiral out of control before even larger percentages of people will be unable to afford coverage? There is data to support this trend - health care costs have risen sharply in the last decade, and will continue to do so barring more government regulation or a fundamental change in the system.

Like I said, I'm far from a class warrior. I came from an upper-middle class family, and with the exception of a few years in college and a couple years entering the work force, I've never really struggled to make ends meet, and I've never been without health care coverage. That said, I also know that I've worked for everything I have now, so I definitely understand people having a problem with the "entitlement mentality" that seems so prevalent in our society today. I have a problem with it as well. But I just have a hard time placing this argument in that scenario, and I think it's worth asking ourselves as a collective group why we are the only 1st-world country on earth that does not have some form of nationalized health care system. I'd be fine with some sort of blend between public and private systems - it doesn't need to be the NHS in the UK or the Canadian Health Care system, but the status quo is not working in this country and I'm not alone in that belief.

One thing I've come to realize is that we're definitely a country of individuals in the U.S. That's not always a bad thing, and we've definitely reaped many rewards from having that mentality. I just think at some point we as a society have to look at what's right as a collective "we" rather than an individual "me". Health Care is definitely one of those issues.

There are a lot of things that could be done to lessen care costs without more govt regulation (but would be fundamental change):

-tort reform, which Obamacare doesn't address in a meaningful way. This would lower the medical malpractice premiums that docs & hospitals pay which would mean you (ie your insurance co) would be billed less for services which would mean the premiums that you & your employer pay would go down. Would also lead to docs doing less often unnecessary, expensive CYA tests.

-cost awareness & incentives to control costs: Most people eople pay a percentage of their health insurance & have rather small co pays, but when they go to see a doc they have NO IDEA how much things cost, so there's no incentive on the individual consumer to control costs. There is the attitude: Having all the most expensive tests and procedures there are done? I don't know what it costs and who gives a f***. I ain't paying for it. My insurance company (or Uncle Sam) is. And the docs like it because they can make more $$. Taking the most expensive drugs? If my insurance company (or Uncle Sam) is footing the bill, who give a f***? The drug companies love that attitude. Right now you have little to no cost awareness and incentives to control costs.

You don't use your auto insurance to pay for gas or when you go into the repair garage for simple wear & tear & preventitive maintenance. Costs are posted, people pay it out of pocket. They are aware of costs. You don't pay for frivilous & unnecessary repairs (unless you don't know much about cars & you have an unscrupulous mechanic). You use your auto insurance in case of expensive repairs after accidents. It should be similar with health insurance. Maybe much of what people & their employers pay for insurance today could go into HSAs which you would pay out of pocket for preventive & simple stuff, with insurance only for catastrophic. Like tort reform cost awareness could also cut down on unnecessary tests & procedures & drugs.

-Allowing the purchase of health insurance across state lines could greatly lower costs. Ex- My girlfriend lives in NJ (& her employer) has very expensive insurance costs. She could get it for less in PA where I live, & even for a lot less in some other states that don't have all the expensive mandates that NJ recquires, but she can't because they don't allow you to purchase across state lines.

I don't think more govt involvement, or a nationalized, socialized, single payer system is the answer, and neither does Ron Paul. I think Paul is wacky on some issues, but not on health care. I think has the best insight of the health care issue of any of the candidates out there (he is the only one who was a physician):
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/health-care/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;