EPA Watch

Political discussions
User avatar
travelinman67
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 9884
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:51 pm
I am a fan of: Portland State Vikings
A.K.A.: Modern Man
Location: Where the 1st Amendment still exists: CS.com

EPA Watch

Post by travelinman67 »

So...

...the bureaucratic pollution flowing unchecked from the New Obama EPA seems to produce daily nuggets of nanny state nonsense. Rather than starting a new thread for each one, this thread will provide a place for posters to hold EPA's feet to the fire of rational sanity.

Beginning with today's butthead nuggett...

EPA classifies milk as oil, forcing costly rules on farmers

Updated Thursday, June 16, 2010
Monica Scott The Grand Rapids Press

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/ ... l_for.html
GRAND RAPIDS -- Having watched the oil gushing in the Gulf of Mexico, dairy farmer Frank Konkel has a hard time seeing how spilled milk can be labeled the same kind of environmental hazard.

But the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is classifying milk as oil because it contains a percentage of animal fat, which is a non-petroleum oil.

The Hesperia farmer and others would be required to develop and implement spill prevention plans for milk storage tanks. The rules are set to take effect in November, though that date might be pushed back.

"That could get expensive quickly," Konkel said. "We have a serious problem in the Gulf. Milk is a wholesome product that does not equate to spilling oil."

But last week environmentalists disagreed at a Senate committee hearing on a resolution from Sen. Wayne Kuipers, R-Holland, calling for the EPA to rescind its ruling.

"The federal Clean Water Act requirements were meant to protect the environment from petroleum-based oils, not milk," he said. "I think it is an example of federal government gone amuck."


But Gayle Miller, legislative director of Sierra Club Michigan Chapter, said agricultural pollution probably is the nation's most severe chronic problem when it comes to water pollution.

"Milk is wholesome in a child's body. It is devastating in a waterway," Miller said. "The fact that it's biodegradable is irrelevant if people die as a result of cryptosporidium, beaches close for E. coli and fish are killed."

Miller said "big agriculture" is constantly trying to be exempted from environmental regulations at the state and federal level. She was disappointed to learn the EPA told The Press it "expects shortly to issue a notice to extend the date for milk storage tanks to comply with SPCC (Spill Prevention Control and Countermeasure) regulations."

Also, the International Dairy Foods Association said it has learned the EPA will exempt the industry from the rule.

But state lawmakers say they won't let up until that is official.

Konkel, who also spoke at the Senate hearing, co-owns Silver Sky Dairy, with his wife, Shari, and a brother-in-law and his wife. They have 300 milking cows on about 800 acres and a 5,000-gallon tank that keeps their milk cool.

The regulations apply to farms that store more than 1,320 gallons in above-ground containers or more than 42,000 gallons in buried containers.

In May, U.S. Rep. Candice Miller, R-Mount Clemens, introduced legislation, co-sponsored by Rep. Pete Hoekstra, R-Holland, that prohibits enforcement of the EPA's regulations on dairy and dairy product producers, processors, handlers and distributors.

"This is an example of where we have overreach by the department that defies common sense," said Matt Smego, legislative counsel for Michigan Farm Bureau.

Smego said its an unnecessary regulatory burden that creates additional costs. He said it could cost $2,500 for a certified engineer to safeguard milk, plus more to construct secondary containment structures.

Michigan has 2,299 dairy farms. According to the Michigan Department of Agriculture, dairy is the leading segment of Michigan's agricultural industry, providing a $5.1 billion impact on the state's economy.
:ohno:
"That is how government works - we tell you what you can do today."
- EPA Kommissar Gina McCarthy
User avatar
D1B
Chris's Bitch
Chris's Bitch
Posts: 18397
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:34 am
I am a fan of: Morehead State

Re: EPA Watch

Post by D1B »

Yawn - Tbagz, you're a one trick pony. :coffee:

The modern world has passed you by. Your moral, ethical and philosophical outlook has proven, time and again, to be utterly evil and a complete failure. You are no longer relevant.

The sooner you get on that rocking chair, shut your fucking big mouth and let us progressive folk guide our young in creating a more peaceful and healthy world, the better.

If the earth took a shit - you, AZtoiletseat, Alphafuck, Naieve and Flabamountwoman would kernels of corn in the turd.

Good riddance, fuck face. :thumb:
"Sarah Palin absolutely blew AWAY the audience tonight. If there was any doubt as to whether she was savvy enough, tough enough or smart enough to carry the mantle of Vice President, she put those fears to rest tonight. She took on Barack Obama DIRECTLY on every issue and exposed... She did it with warmth and humor, and came across as the every-person....it's becoming mroe and more clear that she was a genius pick for McCain."

AZGrizfan - Summer 2008
∞∞∞
Level5
Level5
Posts: 12373
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:30 am

Re: EPA Watch

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Wow, that story is just aweful reporting. I guess anyone can become a journalist today.
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA or the Agency) is proposing an amendment to the Spill Prevention, Control, and Countermeasure (SPCC) rule to exempt storage containers (both bulk and processing vessels) containing milk, as well as associated piping and appurtenances from the SPCC requirements, if they are constructed according to the current applicable 3-A Sanitary Standards, and are subject to the current applicable Grade “A” Pasteurized Milk Ordinance (PMO) or a State dairy regulatory requirement equivalent to the current applicable PMO.
Under this proposal, EPA would exempt milk storage containers and associated piping and appurtenances that are constructed according to 3-A Sanitary Standards and are subject to the current applicable Grade “A” Pasteurized Milk Ordinance (PMO), or an equivalent state dairy requirement to the current applicable PMO from SPCC rule requirements. Overall, EPA estimates that this proposed action would reduce annual compliance costs by approximately $155 million for owners and operators of affected facilities.
http://www.epa.gov/oem/content/spcc/spc ... signed.pdf
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69130
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: EPA Watch

Post by kalm »

Image

EEEEPAAA, EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPAA!



(I think Tman needs to change his avatar to Abraham Simpson.) :thumb:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Rob Iola
Level3
Level3
Posts: 3724
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:45 pm
I am a fan of: Lurking

Re: EPA Watch

Post by Rob Iola »

But what about cow farts?

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/ ... tax-scare/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Farmers Relax (a Little) After Cow Tax Scare
By KATE GALBRAITH

We are not the enemy. (Photo: Wendy Carlson for The New York Times)
To ranchers, they were two of the most absurd and terrifying words in the English language: “cow tax.”

Last last year, rumors that the Environmental Protection Agency was considering a tax on methane in an effort to reduce greenhouse gas emissions caused angst in the farming community.

Methane, which the E.P.A. considers over 20 times more potent as a heat-trapping greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, is emitted when cattle burp. The New York Farm Bureau calculated that such a tax could amount to $175 per dairy cow, and about half that for beef cattle.

...
Of course if this applied to people D and Capn' would need to take out 2nd mortgages to pay their tax bills...
Proletarians of the world, unite!
User avatar
travelinman67
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 9884
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:51 pm
I am a fan of: Portland State Vikings
A.K.A.: Modern Man
Location: Where the 1st Amendment still exists: CS.com

Re: EPA Watch

Post by travelinman67 »

∞∞∞ wrote:Wow, that story is just aweful reporting. I guess anyone can become a journalist today.
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA or the Agency) is proposing an amendment to the Spill Prevention, Control, and Countermeasure (SPCC) rule to exempt storage containers (both bulk and processing vessels) containing milk, as well as associated piping and appurtenances from the SPCC requirements, if they are constructed according to the current applicable 3-A Sanitary Standards, and are subject to the current applicable Grade “A” Pasteurized Milk Ordinance (PMO) or a State dairy regulatory requirement equivalent to the current applicable PMO.
Under this proposal, EPA would exempt milk storage containers and associated piping and appurtenances that are constructed according to 3-A Sanitary Standards and are subject to the current applicable Grade “A” Pasteurized Milk Ordinance (PMO), or an equivalent state dairy requirement to the current applicable PMO from SPCC rule requirements. Overall, EPA estimates that this proposed action would reduce annual compliance costs by approximately $155 million for owners and operators of affected facilities.
http://www.epa.gov/oem/content/spcc/spc ... signed.pdf
Even more entertaining is the political spin...

...leading the amendment as the "Oil Pollution...", yet was this amendment intended to address "Oil Pollution"? Per the EPA's unsigned draft, the amendment will effect...
II. Entities Potentially Affected by This Proposed Rule
Industry Sector
NAICS Code
Farms………………………………………………………..111,112
Food Manufacturing………………………………….311,312
Clearly, a regulatory proposal aimed at farms and food manufacturing, and even acknowledged by the Sierra Club's spokesperson, Gayle Miller, who implied the villian being targeted was "Big agriculture".

Yet, bureaucratic nannyism doesn't sound so benign when the public learns the its target is Agriculture, and the results will be across the board increased food pricing and/or loss of jobs.

Whomever drafted and pushed this proposal at this time needs a swift, hard, kick in the ass...right out the door. No amount of leftist spin will clean up this bureaucratic blowout.
"That is how government works - we tell you what you can do today."
- EPA Kommissar Gina McCarthy
User avatar
travelinman67
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 9884
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:51 pm
I am a fan of: Portland State Vikings
A.K.A.: Modern Man
Location: Where the 1st Amendment still exists: CS.com

Re: EPA Watch

Post by travelinman67 »

First, Corzine-The-Crook, one of Obama's largest contributors (according to Biden), gets caught embezzling hundreds of millions from farmer's investment's...pleads ignorance to Congressional investigors, while DOJ turns a blind eye...

...now, MF Global's President Bradley Abelow is outed as Chair of the EPA's financial advisory board...

MF Global chief missing $1.2B is financial adviser to EPA

By Jim McElhatton
Tuesday, December 27, 2011

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... viser-epa/


...60 years ago, Holder, Salazar, Jackson, Solis, Bryson, Chu and Geithner would NEVER have been appointed to any Cabinet-level position: Their views are too extreme, integrity befeft, and the economic and regulatory "damage" and upheaval left in their wake will cost American's hundreds of billions and take decades to resolve.

Adding insult, the American Dems, Socialists and Entitlement-Seeking voters elect a genuine "Chicago Politics" operative, who is surrounded by crooks/liars/thieves now empowered to loot the American taxpayer and business owners.

I used to remark that the "most unexpected" event I'd witnessed in my life was, "...the collapse of the Soviet Union..."

...but that's been replaced by, "...the takeover of our Federal Government by Organized Criminals...".

God Save America.

:(
"That is how government works - we tell you what you can do today."
- EPA Kommissar Gina McCarthy
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69130
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: EPA Watch

Post by kalm »

[quote="travelinman67"]First, Corzine-The-Crook, one of Obama's largest contributors (according to Biden), gets caught embezzling hundreds of millions from farmer's investment's...pleads ignorance to Congressional investigors, while DOJ turns a blind eye...

...now, MF Global's President Bradley Abelow is outed as Chair of the EPA's financial advisory board...

MF Global chief missing $1.2B is financial adviser to EPA

By Jim McElhatton
Tuesday, December 27, 2011

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... viser-epa/


...60 years ago, Holder, Salazar, Jackson, Solis, Bryson, Chu and Geithner would NEVER have been appointed to any Cabinet-level position: Their views are too extreme, integrity befeft, and the economic and regulatory "damage" and upheaval left in their wake will cost American's hundreds of billions and take decades to resolve.

Adding insult, the American Dems, Socialists and Entitlement-Seeking voters elect a genuine "Chicago Politics" operative, who is surrounded by crooks/liars/thieves now empowered to loot the American taxpayer and business owners.

I used to remark that the "most unexpected" event I'd witnessed in my life was, "...the collapse of the Soviet Union..."

...but that's been replaced by, "...the takeover of our Federal Government by Organized Criminals...".

God Save America.

:([/quote

"I don't belong to any organized political party...I'm a Democrat.

I was born around the time Nixon founded the EPA. In those years, the Spokane River (like many) was petty much sterile and devoid of aquatic life due to decades of pollution. Today, I can wade its banks and toss an elk hair caddis to rising native redbands. :nod:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
D1B
Chris's Bitch
Chris's Bitch
Posts: 18397
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:34 am
I am a fan of: Morehead State

Re: EPA Watch

Post by D1B »

kalm wrote:
travelinman67 wrote:First, Corzine-The-Crook, one of Obama's largest contributors (according to Biden), gets caught embezzling hundreds of millions from farmer's investment's...pleads ignorance to Congressional investigors, while DOJ turns a blind eye...

...now, MF Global's President Bradley Abelow is outed as Chair of the EPA's financial advisory board...

MF Global chief missing $1.2B is financial adviser to EPA

By Jim McElhatton
Tuesday, December 27, 2011

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... viser-epa/


...60 years ago, Holder, Salazar, Jackson, Solis, Bryson, Chu and Geithner would NEVER have been appointed to any Cabinet-level position: Their views are too extreme, integrity befeft, and the economic and regulatory "damage" and upheaval left in their wake will cost American's hundreds of billions and take decades to resolve.

Adding insult, the American Dems, Socialists and Entitlement-Seeking voters elect a genuine "Chicago Politics" operative, who is surrounded by crooks/liars/thieves now empowered to loot the American taxpayer and business owners.

I used to remark that the "most unexpected" event I'd witnessed in my life was, "...the collapse of the Soviet Union..."

...but that's been replaced by, "...the takeover of our Federal Government by Organized Criminals...".

God Save America.

:([/quote

"I don't belong to any organized political party...I'm a Democrat.

I was born around the time Nixon founded the EPA. In those years, the Spokane River (like many) was petty much sterile and devoid of aquatic life due to decades of pollution. Today, I can wade its banks and toss an elk hair caddis to rising native redbands. :nod:
Same here with the Fox River. Thank you EPA and environmentalists. :thumb:
"Sarah Palin absolutely blew AWAY the audience tonight. If there was any doubt as to whether she was savvy enough, tough enough or smart enough to carry the mantle of Vice President, she put those fears to rest tonight. She took on Barack Obama DIRECTLY on every issue and exposed... She did it with warmth and humor, and came across as the every-person....it's becoming mroe and more clear that she was a genius pick for McCain."

AZGrizfan - Summer 2008
User avatar
AZGrizFan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59959
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
Location: Just to the right of center

Re: EPA Watch

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote:
travelinman67 wrote:First, Corzine-The-Crook, one of Obama's largest contributors (according to Biden), gets caught embezzling hundreds of millions from farmer's investment's...pleads ignorance to Congressional investigors, while DOJ turns a blind eye...

...now, MF Global's President Bradley Abelow is outed as Chair of the EPA's financial advisory board...

MF Global chief missing $1.2B is financial adviser to EPA

By Jim McElhatton
Tuesday, December 27, 2011

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... viser-epa/


...60 years ago, Holder, Salazar, Jackson, Solis, Bryson, Chu and Geithner would NEVER have been appointed to any Cabinet-level position: Their views are too extreme, integrity befeft, and the economic and regulatory "damage" and upheaval left in their wake will cost American's hundreds of billions and take decades to resolve.

Adding insult, the American Dems, Socialists and Entitlement-Seeking voters elect a genuine "Chicago Politics" operative, who is surrounded by crooks/liars/thieves now empowered to loot the American taxpayer and business owners.

I used to remark that the "most unexpected" event I'd witnessed in my life was, "...the collapse of the Soviet Union..."

...but that's been replaced by, "...the takeover of our Federal Government by Organized Criminals...".

God Save America.

:(
"I don't belong to any organized political party...I'm a Democrat.

I was born around the time Nixon founded the EPA. In those years, the Spokane River (like many) was petty much sterile and devoid of aquatic life due to decades of pollution. Today, I can wade its banks and toss an elk hair caddis to rising native redbands. :nod:
Yep. The government is here to save us. :coffee: :coffee:
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Image
User avatar
D1B
Chris's Bitch
Chris's Bitch
Posts: 18397
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:34 am
I am a fan of: Morehead State

Re: EPA Watch

Post by D1B »

AZGrizFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
"I don't belong to any organized political party...I'm a Democrat.

I was born around the time Nixon founded the EPA. In those years, the Spokane River (like many) was petty much sterile and devoid of aquatic life due to decades of pollution. Today, I can wade its banks and toss an elk hair caddis to rising native redbands. :nod:
Yep. The government is here to save us. :coffee: :coffee:
Not really, but you know that, yawn. There are important duties it performs, like protecting us from greed-ridden people like you and Tbags. :thumb:
"Sarah Palin absolutely blew AWAY the audience tonight. If there was any doubt as to whether she was savvy enough, tough enough or smart enough to carry the mantle of Vice President, she put those fears to rest tonight. She took on Barack Obama DIRECTLY on every issue and exposed... She did it with warmth and humor, and came across as the every-person....it's becoming mroe and more clear that she was a genius pick for McCain."

AZGrizfan - Summer 2008
User avatar
AZGrizFan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59959
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
Location: Just to the right of center

Re: EPA Watch

Post by AZGrizFan »

D1B wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Yep. The government is here to save us. :coffee: :coffee:
Not really, but you know that, yawn. There are important duties it performs, like protecting us from greed-ridden people like you and Tbags. :thumb:
I'm from the government and I'm here to help. :dunce:
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Image
User avatar
D1B
Chris's Bitch
Chris's Bitch
Posts: 18397
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:34 am
I am a fan of: Morehead State

Re: EPA Watch

Post by D1B »

AZGrizFan wrote:
D1B wrote:
Not really, but you know that, yawn. There are important duties it performs, like protecting us from greed-ridden people like you and Tbags. :thumb:
I'm from the government and I'm here to help. :dunce:
You, personally, would be fucked without government. With rare exception here, YOU have benefited most from government activities. :coffee:
"Sarah Palin absolutely blew AWAY the audience tonight. If there was any doubt as to whether she was savvy enough, tough enough or smart enough to carry the mantle of Vice President, she put those fears to rest tonight. She took on Barack Obama DIRECTLY on every issue and exposed... She did it with warmth and humor, and came across as the every-person....it's becoming mroe and more clear that she was a genius pick for McCain."

AZGrizfan - Summer 2008
User avatar
AZGrizFan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59959
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
Location: Just to the right of center

Re: EPA Watch

Post by AZGrizFan »

D1B wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
I'm from the government and I'm here to help. :dunce:
You, personally, would be fucked without government. With rare exception here, YOU have benefited most from government activities. :coffee:
Do tell. :coffee:
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Image
User avatar
JohnStOnge
Egalitarian
Egalitarian
Posts: 20316
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
I am a fan of: McNeese State
A.K.A.: JohnStOnge

Re: EPA Watch

Post by JohnStOnge »

I was born around the time Nixon founded the EPA. In those years, the Spokane River (like many) was petty much sterile and devoid of aquatic life due to decades of pollution. Today, I can wade its banks and toss an elk hair caddis to rising native redbands.
I love to fish but there are more important things than the question of whether or not you can catch trout in a local river. The EPA has too much power. It is populated with environmental extremists. It should be eliminated. Some things would be lost in its absence. But, on balance, we would be better off.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?

Deep Purple: No One Came
Image
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69130
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: EPA Watch

Post by kalm »

JohnStOnge wrote:
I was born around the time Nixon founded the EPA. In those years, the Spokane River (like many) was petty much sterile and devoid of aquatic life due to decades of pollution. Today, I can wade its banks and toss an elk hair caddis to rising native redbands.
I love to fish but there are more important things than the question of whether or not you can catch trout in a local river. The EPA has too much power. It is populated with environmental extremists. It should be eliminated. Some things would be lost in its absence. But, on balance, we would be better off.
There's also a whole hell of lot more benefits to clean water than just having a healthy fishery.
Image
Image
Image
∞∞∞
Level5
Level5
Posts: 12373
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:30 am

Re: EPA Watch

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Considering I worked for the EPA, I can guarantee you that they're not full of "environmental extremists." It's just a bunch of everyday scientists, chemists, engineers, analysts, and etc. There's no question on the job application that says, "Do you love the environment?" It's your run-of-the-mill job made up of your run-of-the-mill people.
User avatar
JohnStOnge
Egalitarian
Egalitarian
Posts: 20316
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
I am a fan of: McNeese State
A.K.A.: JohnStOnge

Re: EPA Watch

Post by JohnStOnge »

There's also a whole hell of lot more benefits to clean water than just having a healthy fishery.
I don't think we need the EPA in order to have a reasonable balance between the need for clean water and respect for private property rights as well as the principle of limited Federal government. I haven't researched it yet but I'm sure the EPA is yet another abomination precipitated by liberal interpretation of the commerce clause to give the Federal government about any power one wants to give the Federal government by saying that if it can be argued that something "affects" interstate commerce the Federal government has the power to regulate it.

If I were to learn that I am correct in assuming that the basis for EPA power is the commerce clause I would say that I am absolutely confident that if you could raise the people who ratified that clause from the dead, fully inform them as to what has transpired since they did it, and ask them if the Constitution really gives the Federal government the power the EPA exercises they would answer with a resounding "NO."

Actually I think they'd say that regardless of whether or not I'm correct about the commerce clause being cited as the specific authorization. The principles of limited central government upon which this country was based have been utterly betrayed and the existence of the EPA is just one more example of that.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?

Deep Purple: No One Came
Image
User avatar
JohnStOnge
Egalitarian
Egalitarian
Posts: 20316
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
I am a fan of: McNeese State
A.K.A.: JohnStOnge

Re: EPA Watch

Post by JohnStOnge »

∞∞∞ wrote:Considering I worked for the EPA, I can guarantee you that they're not full of "environmental extremists." It's just a bunch of everyday scientists, chemists, engineers, analysts, and etc. There's no question on the job application that says, "Do you love the environment?" It's your run-of-the-mill job made up of your run-of-the-mill people.
I have not worked for the EPA but I have worked with and interacted with people from the EPA many times. "Extremist" is a relative term and perhaps I shouldn't have used it. But they are not "run of the mill" people. The very fact that they are working in the environmental field says something about them. And I say that while also saying that I work in the environmental field. I consider the general mindset characterizing the EPA to be irrational. Out of balance.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?

Deep Purple: No One Came
Image
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69130
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: EPA Watch

Post by kalm »

JohnStOnge wrote:
There's also a whole hell of lot more benefits to clean water than just having a healthy fishery.
I don't think we need the EPA in order to have a reasonable balance between the need for clean water and respect for private property rights as well as the principle of limited Federal government. I haven't researched it yet but I'm sure the EPA is yet another abomination precipitated by liberal interpretation of the commerce clause to give the Federal government about any power one wants to give the Federal government by saying that if it can be argued that something "affects" interstate commerce the Federal government has the power to regulate it.

If I were to learn that I am correct in assuming that the basis for EPA power is the commerce clause I would say that I am absolutely confident that if you could raise the people who ratified that clause from the dead, fully inform them as to what has transpired since they did it, and ask them if the Constitution really gives the Federal government the power the EPA exercises they would answer with a resounding "NO."

Actually I think they'd say that regardless of whether or not I'm correct about the commerce clause being cited as the specific authorization. The principles of limited central government upon which this country was based have been utterly betrayed and the existence of the EPA is just one more example of that.
Don't get me wrong, I'm fully aware of what a pain in the ass regulatory agencies can be, but what incentives do businesses have to do the right thing in regards to environmental stewardship? Has the EPA really hurt progress or has it been more a thorn in the side? Does environmental quality have an economic value?
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
AZGrizFan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59959
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
Location: Just to the right of center

Re: EPA Watch

Post by AZGrizFan »

AZGrizFan wrote:
D1B wrote:
You, personally, would be fucked without government. With rare exception here, YOU have benefited most from government activities. :coffee:
Do tell. :coffee:
Didn't THINK you had anything to back up that statement.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Image
User avatar
BlueHen86
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 13555
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:40 pm
I am a fan of: The McManus Brothers
A.K.A.: Duffman
Location: Area XI

Re: EPA Watch

Post by BlueHen86 »

kalm wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
I don't think we need the EPA in order to have a reasonable balance between the need for clean water and respect for private property rights as well as the principle of limited Federal government. I haven't researched it yet but I'm sure the EPA is yet another abomination precipitated by liberal interpretation of the commerce clause to give the Federal government about any power one wants to give the Federal government by saying that if it can be argued that something "affects" interstate commerce the Federal government has the power to regulate it.

If I were to learn that I am correct in assuming that the basis for EPA power is the commerce clause I would say that I am absolutely confident that if you could raise the people who ratified that clause from the dead, fully inform them as to what has transpired since they did it, and ask them if the Constitution really gives the Federal government the power the EPA exercises they would answer with a resounding "NO."

Actually I think they'd say that regardless of whether or not I'm correct about the commerce clause being cited as the specific authorization. The principles of limited central government upon which this country was based have been utterly betrayed and the existence of the EPA is just one more example of that.
Don't get me wrong, I'm fully aware of what a pain in the ass regulatory agencies can be, but what incentives do businesses have to do the right thing in regards to environmental stewardship? Has the EPA really hurt progress or has it been more a thorn in the side? Does environmental quality have an economic value?
They have none. Businesses exist to make money, environmental regulations get in their way. Take away the EPA and our water and air quality will deteriorate rapidly.
User avatar
travelinman67
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 9884
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:51 pm
I am a fan of: Portland State Vikings
A.K.A.: Modern Man
Location: Where the 1st Amendment still exists: CS.com

Re: EPA Watch

Post by travelinman67 »

∞∞∞ wrote:Considering I worked for the EPA, I can guarantee you that they're not full of "environmental extremists." It's just a bunch of everyday scientists, chemists, engineers, analysts, and etc. There's no question on the job application that says, "Do you love the environment?" It's your run-of-the-mill job made up of your run-of-the-mill people.
Kinda like saying Iran's Revolutionary Guard are just a bunch of run-of-the-mill-people doing a run-of-the-mill job...

...under the command of a suicidal demagogue leading the country to self-destruction.

Not any different than...

Image

Those three are responsible for more lost jobs and industry in the U.S. than all other factors combined.

:ohno:
"That is how government works - we tell you what you can do today."
- EPA Kommissar Gina McCarthy
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69130
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: EPA Watch

Post by kalm »

travelinman67 wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:Considering I worked for the EPA, I can guarantee you that they're not full of "environmental extremists." It's just a bunch of everyday scientists, chemists, engineers, analysts, and etc. There's no question on the job application that says, "Do you love the environment?" It's your run-of-the-mill job made up of your run-of-the-mill people.
Kinda like saying Iran's Revolutionary Guard are just a bunch of run-of-the-mill-people doing a run-of-the-mill job...

...under the command of a suicidal demagogue leading the country to self-destruction.

Not any different than...

Image

Those three are responsible for more lost jobs and industry in the U.S. than all other factors combined.

:ohno:
:lol:
Image
Image
Image
HI54UNI
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 12394
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:39 pm
I am a fan of: Firing Mark Farley
A.K.A.: Bikinis for JSO
Location: The Panther State

Re: EPA Watch

Post by HI54UNI »

I deal with the EPA and here is my take -

I don't think most of the people at the staff level are zealots. The leadership is without a doubt. The staff level people are like the rest of us - they go to work and do their jobs which includes doing what they are told by their bosses. The EPA people I have all dealt with have been personable and fairly easy to get along with.

I think the biggest problem is the bosses and the staff are removed from reality. They do need to police industry but they often have no idea how industry works and what may or may not be realistic or practical. On paper something sounds good but in reality it may not work or the technology to accomplish a goal might not even exist. Carbon capture and sequestration at power plants is a prime example.

I think EPA should do more outreach to industry for input on rules before they release them. I know businesses can comment on rule makings but unfortunately how many businesses sit and read the federal register every day to know what is coming? And if you've ever commented have your concerns ever been addressed by a federal agency in the final rule - probably not. Our state is trying to do work more with businesses and is having some success. Most businesses are smart enough to know that they can agree to a certain amount of regulation if it means the regs aren't as nasty as they could be. EPA could still accomplish a large majority of their goal with less hassle, less lawsuits, etc. and if business does not want to cooperate they could still drop the hammer for the full rules.
If fascism ever comes to America, it will come in the name of liberalism. Ronald Reagan, 1975.

Progressivism is cancer

All my posts are satire
Post Reply