knocking FCS teams down in the rankings for FBS losses

[Pwns]

Not a voter in any FCS poll, but I was wondering what some folks opinions of this is. Obviously, I'm not for punishing teams like EWU for losing a close one to Washington even though I think it was a game that they should have won.
What I am talking about is getting absolutely ripped to shreds in games that should be a lot closer. Here are some examples.

Disclaimer...none of this is meant as smack.

1. App. State losing to Va. Tech 66-13? I don't care if it's a top 25 FBS, that is pathetic. Va Tech isn't even known for their offense. A top 5 FCS team should not give up 60+ to anyone. Does anyone really think App. State is a top-10 after this game?

2. UD getting blown out by Navy? What the heck happened, hens? Ricky Dobbs is gone and Navy lost to San Diego State in a bowl game. This one isn't as bad as the others, but I would think about where UD is in many of the polls.

3. W&M getting creamed by UVA. I would definitely have a hard time putting them in the top 5 after a beat-down like that to a team like UVA.

4. UNH and Toledo. They are a MAC team. Good FCS teams don't get crushed by MAC teams. Sorry.

5. Villanova and Temple. Ditto. This may be the worst one of all. Nova is not a top-25 team.

On another note, congrats to the Big Sky. You guys represented the FCS much better than the SoCon and CAA in FBS games.

[Silenoz]

I also stopped doing the polls (couldn't find the time), but I'm curious to see where Sac ends up. Montana could very well end up with back-to-back top five opponents

[∞∞∞]

I didn't really penalize programs, but slight bump downs were inevitable in my poll to make a bit of room for teams that did compete well against FBS squads.

[BlueHen86]

It's hard to say how far teams should drop, we really don't know how good the FBS teams are.

1.Va Tech could be a top notch FBS team, ASU drops, but I wouldnt let the score factor into my thinking too much. Not a big drop.

2.UD drops, of the 5 games you listed I think this is the worst FCS loss since many people thought UD might win. Even a good Navy team is not an FBS power. I have serious questions about how good UD will be this year, with West Chester up next it will be a while before I have a good feel for the Hens season (unless the Hens lose next week ).

3, 4 & 5. Really not sure what to make of these. I agree that Villanova may not be a top 25, I think they are rebuilding. But, Temple might be pretty good. They have been steadily improving the last couple of years, I wouldn't punish Nova too much for this loss.

[SuperHornet]

Under normal circumstances, a FCS team SHOULD get knocked down for an FBS loss, particularly if it's close. This week shows the main flaw to that argument: what happens if the vast majority of the Top 15 take it on the chin? In a case like this, you can't do much.

For me, I think I stretched cred about as far as I could in bringing up Sac all the way from 20-something to 12. I also moved UNI up to 2 for their CLOSE FBS performance when all of the others around them in my poll lost huge. I kept EWU in the top spot (which I would just about NEVER do for a top-spot team that lost) simply because it was close and just about everyone else around them lost big or worse.

This is just a crazy week. Most years, we don't see this. This is one week where we just can't get around keeping teams up on the charts simply because one can't jump up the teams that won that far. As many have noted before, it'll settle down in a few weeks.

[Silenoz]

Under normal circumstances, a FCS team SHOULD get knocked down for an FBS loss, particularly if it's close.

That... doesn't make any sense

[Catattack]

Under normal circumstances, a FCS team SHOULD get knocked down for an FBS loss, particularly if it's close. This week shows the main flaw to that argument: what happens if the vast majority of the Top 15 take it on the chin? In a case like this, you can't do much.

For me, I think I stretched cred about as far as I could in bringing up Sac all the way from 20-something to 12. I also moved UNI up to 2 for their CLOSE FBS performance when all of the others around them in my poll lost huge. I kept EWU in the top spot (which I would just about NEVER do for a top-spot team that lost) simply because it was close and just about everyone else around them lost big or worse.

This is just a crazy week. Most years, we don't see this. This is one week where we just can't get around keeping teams up on the charts simply because one can't jump up the teams that won that far. As many have noted before, it'll settle down in a few weeks.

I can see MSU dropping out of your top 25. Wait, they probably weren't in it to begin with.

[cats2506]

Under normal circumstances, a FCS team SHOULD get knocked down for an FBS loss, particularly if it's close. This week shows the main flaw to that argument: what happens if the vast majority of the Top 15 take it on the chin? In a case like this, you can't do much.

For me, I think I stretched cred about as far as I could in bringing up Sac all the way from 20-something to 12. I also moved UNI up to 2 for their CLOSE FBS performance when all of the others around them in my poll lost huge. I kept EWU in the top spot (which I would just about NEVER do for a top-spot team that lost) simply because it was close and just about everyone else around them lost big or worse.

This is just a crazy week. Most years, we don't see this. This is one week where we just can't get around keeping teams up on the charts simply because one can't jump up the teams that won that far. As many have noted before, it'll settle down in a few weeks.

I can see MSU dropping out of your top 25. Wait, they probably weren't in it to begin with.

Im sure he has UM and Liberty as top 5 though

[Gil Dobie]

This is the first poll of the season. I don't base my poll on my pre-season poll, so nobody moves up or down they just get ranked.

[CatMom]

I think you just leave them alone, where you thought to put them in the first place; unless you're one of those that will give SFA a high placement for the smack down on a transitioning D3 team. It's the same kind of thing in reverse.
If you don't have any idea how the FBS is doing against other FBS teams, yet, you can't penalize the FCS team.

In the SFA example, we know the team they played isn't very good.
Same way I wouldn't reward UTSA (if they were eligible)
or Lamar
And people best not put NIcholls in this poll....they beat an NAIA.

Didn't we wait until week 3 or something last year?

How this affects a team like Sac St is up to you.

Again, I think waiting a few weeks before the 1st poll is better

[travelinman67]

I think you just leave them alone, where you thought to put them in the first place; unless you're one of those that will give SFA a high placement for the smack down on a transitioning D3 team. It's the same kind of thing in reverse.
If you don't have any idea how the FBS is doing against other FBS teams, yet, you can't penalize the FCS team.

In the SFA example, we know the team they played isn't very good.
Same way I wouldn't reward UTSA (if they were eligible)
or Lamar
And people best not put NIcholls in this poll....they beat an NAIA.

Didn't we wait until week 3 or something last year?

How this affects a team like Sac St is up to you.

Again, I think waiting a few weeks before the 1st poll is better

There was discussion and the majority felt starting sooner was better.

Personally, I'd probably wait until after the second week because by that time, most of the strength/weaknesses will have been revealed.

Starting the first week of OOC's is just a warm up, IMHO, for the regular season. No harm done.

[JALMOND]

What I do is I generally figure FCS will lose to FBS by three touchdowns, given all other variables as equal, mainly due to the difference in scholarships bring (size, speed, strength, depth). You lose but stay in the range of three touchdowns, you probably will stay at or near the same spot (its hard to move up because a loss is still a loss and will be counted as such come playoff time). You lose by more than three touchdowns, you will probably drop but not much, rarely over five spots. You win and you were out of the top 25, you probably will be in (of course if you beat FBS in November and it is your first win of the year, it is highly unlikely you will be in the top 25). You win and you were in the top 25, I'll try to give you a significant jump (its hard to bump you if you are at #1 or #2 already).

Of course other factors come into play so that is why I have preface it with "probably". A lot of it has to do with movement from other teams, too.

[SuperHornet]

Under normal circumstances, a FCS team SHOULD get knocked down for an FBS loss, particularly if it's close.

That... doesn't make any sense

I just looked at that. You're right, Sil. I should have said "...particularly if it's big."

[SuperHornet]

No, I didn't have MSU in my preseason poll. They're not in my post-Week 1 poll, either. I DID have Weber in, though, and NAU came in at 25. I didn't want to have NDSU in there, either, but I didn't have a choice. They're at #10.

FWIW, I have Liberty at #11. That's fairly reasonable given that that represents a drop of one spot. Yes, Montana is in my Top 5, but I dropped even them to move UNI up to #2. Montana is now at #3.

Again, this will all settle out in the next few weeks.

[LDopaPDX]

Not a voter in any FCS poll, but I was wondering what some folks opinions of this is. Obviously, I'm not for punishing teams like EWU for losing a close one to Washington even though I think it was a game that they should have won.
What I am talking about is getting absolutely ripped to shreds in games that should be a lot closer. Here are some examples.

Disclaimer...none of this is meant as smack.

1. App. State losing to Va. Tech 66-13? I don't care if it's a top 25 FBS, that is pathetic. Va Tech isn't even known for their offense. A top 5 FCS team should not give up 60+ to anyone. Does anyone really think App. State is a top-10 after this game?

2. UD getting blown out by Navy? What the heck happened, hens? Ricky Dobbs is gone and Navy lost to San Diego State in a bowl game. This one isn't as bad as the others, but I would think about where UD is in many of the polls.

3. W&M getting creamed by UVA. I would definitely have a hard time putting them in the top 5 after a beat-down like that to a team like UVA.

4. UNH and Toledo. They are a MAC team. Good FCS teams don't get crushed by MAC teams. Sorry.

5. Villanova and Temple. Ditto. This may be the worst one of all. Nova is not a top-25 team.

On another note, congrats to the Big Sky. You guys represented the FCS much better than the SoCon and CAA in FBS games.

I agree with your assessment. A ranked FCS team should represent the FCS well regardless of who they play. Using the the FBS-, or even BCS-excuse for failing to show up and getting whalloped isn't acceptable. Youngstown State got beat 28-6 and Montana State got beat 27-10 to Michigan State and Utah, respectively, and those to me demonstrate that these teams don't roll over.

Villanova and App State getting complete beat downs don't register. At the very least, these teams lose a lot of value in my opinion. Of course, they'll likely get better and have better weekends, but they deserve a big drop in the polls IMO. Simply "playing up" is no excuse for those kind of results.

[SACCAT]

No, I didn't have MSU in my preseason poll. They're not in my post-Week 1 poll, either. I DID have Weber in, though, and NAU came in at 25. I didn't want to have NDSU in there, either, but I didn't have a choice. They're at #10.

FWIW, I have Liberty at #11. That's fairly reasonable given that that represents a drop of one spot. Yes, Montana is in my Top 5, but I dropped even them to move UNI up to #2. Montana is now at #3.

Again, this will all settle out in the next few weeks.

This is why not many people take this poll seriously. Idiots like this bring everyone else down. Shame on you SH, you should be banned from EVER doing a poll again on this site.

[cats2506]

No, I didn't have MSU in my preseason poll. They're not in my post-Week 1 poll, either. I DID have Weber in, though, and NAU came in at 25. I didn't want to have NDSU in there, either, but I didn't have a choice. They're at #10.

FWIW, I have Liberty at #11. That's fairly reasonable given that that represents a drop of one spot. Yes, Montana is in my Top 5, but I dropped even them to move UNI up to #2. Montana is now at #3.

Again, this will all settle out in the next few weeks.

So if MSU wins their next 3 games you will have them in the top 5?

vs UC Davis
vs DII
@ EWU

[clenz]

No, I didn't have MSU in my preseason poll. They're not in my post-Week 1 poll, either. I DID have Weber in, though, and NAU came in at 25. I didn't want to have NDSU in there, either, but I didn't have a choice. They're at #10.

FWIW, I have Liberty at #11. That's fairly reasonable given that that represents a drop of one spot. Yes, Montana is in my Top 5, but I dropped even them to move UNI up to #2. Montana is now at #3.

Again, this will all settle out in the next few weeks.

This is why not many people take this poll seriously. Idiots like this bring everyone else down. Shame on you SH, you should be banned from EVER doing a poll again on this site.

You have no idea how hard I've fought.

[Skjellyfetti]

Hmmmm. There seems to be a certain team you are leaving out.

Is a 26 point loss to Tennessee better than a 23 point loss to Navy? Why?

Comparing blowouts is a pointless exercise.

WE ONLY LOST BY 26 POINTS! YOU GUYS LOST BY 35!!! YOU GUYS SUCK!! WE'RE REALLY GOOD!!! WE REPRESENTED THE BIG SKY WELL!!!

[Silenoz]

Hmmmm. There seems to be a certain team you are leaving out.

Is a 26 point loss to Tennessee better than a 23 point loss to Navy? Why?

Comparing blowouts is a pointless exercise.

WE ONLY LOST BY 26 POINTS! YOU GUYS LOST BY 35!!! YOU GUYS SUCK!! WE'RE REALLY GOOD!!! WE REPRESENTED THE BIG SKY WELL!!!

Conspiracy imo

[kalm]

Hmmmm. There seems to be a certain team you are leaving out.

Is a 26 point loss to Tennessee better than a 23 point loss to Navy? Why?

Comparing blowouts is a pointless exercise.

WE ONLY LOST BY 26 POINTS! YOU GUYS LOST BY 35!!! YOU GUYS SUCK!! WE'RE REALLY GOOD!!! WE REPRESENTED THE BIG SKY WELL!!!

1) A SOCON fan started the poll.

2). A 26 point loss by BSC #4 isn't all that surprising. ASU's was.

[Skjellyfetti]

Damn. I assume every thread started around here is a Montana or Big Sky fan. My apologies.

Hey Pwns. How do you expect Georgia Southern to fair against Alabama later this year? You think they're going to be somewhat competitive and keep it within a couple of scores? Or are they going to get run off the field like 99% of FCS schools playing a quality FBS game?

[BDKJMU]

What happened to the CS poll that starts after week 4 or was it week 3?

[clenz]

What happened to the CS poll that starts after week 4 or was it week 3?

Already running....preaseason poll was out. Voting for week one endss tonight I believe.

[SuperHornet]

No, I didn't have MSU in my preseason poll. They're not in my post-Week 1 poll, either. I DID have Weber in, though, and NAU came in at 25. I didn't want to have NDSU in there, either, but I didn't have a choice. They're at #10.

FWIW, I have Liberty at #11. That's fairly reasonable given that that represents a drop of one spot. Yes, Montana is in my Top 5, but I dropped even them to move UNI up to #2. Montana is now at #3.

Again, this will all settle out in the next few weeks.

So if MSU wins their next 3 games you will have them in the top 5?

vs UC Davis
vs DII
@ EWU

Not necessarily. But beating the #1 team in the country (assuming they stay there), or at least the demonstrably best team in the conference would go a long way toward establishing that.