Cain - First Amendment is Garbage

[dbackjon]

He obviously feels that way, since he doesn't believe in it.

Another idiotic Republican.

Herman Cain: Communities have right to ban mosques

Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain said Sunday that communities have a right to ban Islamic mosques.
Appearing on "Fox News Sunday," the former Godfather's Pizza CEO said protests and legal challenges to a planned mosque in Tennessee city are an example of local residents pushing back.
Cain said his view doesn't amount to religious discrimination because he says Muslims are trying to inject Shariah law into the U.S.
Shariah is a set of core principles that most Muslims recognize and a series of rulings from religious scholars. It covers many areas of life and different sects have different versions and interpretations of the code.
Asked if his view could lead any community to stand up in opposition to a proposed mosque, Cain replied, "They could say that." He pointed to opposition to the planned mosque in Murfreesboro, Tenn., as an example.

http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110717 ... ng_mosques" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ASUG8]

Cain's ability to make that statement is protected under......oh, nevermind.

[Rob Iola]

Cain's ability to make that statement is protected under......oh, nevermind.

As is the right to protest...

[dbackjon]

Cain's ability to make that statement is protected under......oh, nevermind.

As is the right to protest...

Protest yes - but Cain is saying that banning certain religions is fine. Big difference.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

He is not banning a religion, he is banning a building..................it happens all the time.


Oh and you can have your opinion (1st amendment) about him being an idiot, I find him refreshing and honest and I like him more and more all the time.

[Ivytalk]

Cain's candidacy will fade away soon enough.

[Rob Iola]

He is not banning a religion, he is banning a building..................it happens all the time.
...

Exactly. Consider it input into a zoning decision - separation of church and state doesn't mean that the state can't control where church-related buildings are built (grouped in with schools, houses, office parks, used car lots, stadiums, etc.) - urban planning and all that. And people are free to voice their opinions during the process, even if other people find their opinions objectionable...

[∞∞∞]

Guys, he's clearly not talking about zoning issues. If you wanna oppose a building based on urban planning, fine, but many in this community are holding the proposed Mosque to a different standard because of its religious affiliation, which is unconstitutional. Don't try to excuse such behavior because no matter what, it's wrong. If you've been following the whole saga, you'd know they have all the required permits and etc. CNN did a great story on it:

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[andy7171]

So is dback for or against Sharia Law being injected into the US culture?

[Rob Iola]

Guys, he's clearly not talking about zoning issues. If you wanna oppose a building based on urban planning, fine, but many in this community are holding the proposed Mosque to a different standard because of its religious affiliation, which is unconstitutional. Don't try to excuse such behavior because no matter what, it's wrong. If you've been following the whole saga, you'd know they have all the required permits and etc. CNN did a great story on it:
...

Look, the whole ground zero mosque issue has upped the sensitivity on this sort of thing a thousand fold - and rightfully so - it's a debate worth having, and that's what's going on here. But the underlying issue is as old as the country is - where can you build a church, er, house of worship? NIMBY's come out of the woodwork for a variety of reasons, and just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they can't express their opinions. Ultimately the mosque will be built if as you say they have all the required permits and etc., with "etc." meaning all the ancillary process steps.

[∞∞∞]

Guys, he's clearly not talking about zoning issues. If you wanna oppose a building based on urban planning, fine, but many in this community are holding the proposed Mosque to a different standard because of its religious affiliation, which is unconstitutional. Don't try to excuse such behavior because no matter what, it's wrong. If you've been following the whole saga, you'd know they have all the required permits and etc. CNN did a great story on it:
...

Look, the whole ground zero mosque issue has upped the sensitivity on this sort of thing a thousand fold - and rightfully so - it's a debate worth having, and that's what's going on here. But the underlying issue is as old as the country is - where can you build a church, er, house of worship? NIMBY's come out of the woodwork for a variety of reasons, and just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they can't express their opinions. Ultimately the mosque will be built if as you say they have all the required permits and etc., with "etc." meaning all the ancillary process steps.

NIMBYs absolutely have the right to express their opinions, but no house of worship (including Churches), should ever have to defend themselves like this when they've done nothing wrong. Honestly though, it's not a debate worth having because it's a waste of time and money. Cain, as a presidential hopeful, should know that the office is required to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." His comments clearly show he doesn't understand that, and that he's also a fairly close-minded fella. The whole story reminds me of the saying: Racism often hides itself as a seemingly legitimate concern.

[Rob Iola]

Look, the whole ground zero mosque issue has upped the sensitivity on this sort of thing a thousand fold - and rightfully so - it's a debate worth having, and that's what's going on here. But the underlying issue is as old as the country is - where can you build a church, er, house of worship? NIMBY's come out of the woodwork for a variety of reasons, and just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they can't express their opinions. Ultimately the mosque will be built if as you say they have all the required permits and etc., with "etc." meaning all the ancillary process steps.

NIMBYs absolutely have the right to express their opinions, but no house of worship (including Churches), should ever have to defend themselves like this when they've done nothing wrong. Honestly though, it's not a debate worth having because it's a waste of time an money. Cain, as a presidential hopeful, should know that the office is required to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." His comments clearly show he doesn't understand that, and that he's also a fairly close-minded fella. The whole story reminds me of the saying: Racism often hides itself as a seemingly legitimate concern.

C'mon - if people feel strongly about something then it's a debate worth having, pure and simple, especially when it's a highly charged topic like this one is. And frankly, if there's even a hint of racism involved then you want to get the discussion out into the open. Nobody's hiding anything here.

[dbackjon]

So is dback for or against Sharia Law being injected into the US culture?

I am not for any religious law. But to assume that any mosque will automatically advocate for Sharia Law (and even if they do, that is their right) would mean that you have to assume that any Christian Church is for advocating Christian Law in the US (oh wait, churches try to influence and impose their law on the rest of us all the time).

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

So is dback for or against Sharia Law being injected into the US culture?

Oh he would be TOTALLY for it, no way he would want to hurt somebodies feelings over something as trivial as the American way of life. He would say that the experiment in Europe was an anomaly.

[∞∞∞]

C'mon - if people feel strongly about something then it's a debate worth having, pure and simple, especially when it's a highly charged topic like this one is.

My issue is that it's a highly charged topic based on all the wrong reasons. Some things simply aren't worth debating when there's absolutely no rational logic from one side, regardless of how strongly the feelings are. It's like debating an internet troll, just in real life. Different arguments on the economy, immigration, and abortion all have legitimate reasoning behind the respective arguments. However, something like this doesn't; it's based on an irrational fear. If someone is just trying to legally live their life how they want, s/he shouldn't have to be subjagated to the hostility and the demands of others. These Muslims have done nothing wrong, and they're not being judged based on what's in their heart, but instead on notions preconceived from the actions of others.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I will make you guys a deal.

I will allow all the mosques to be built in the US AFTER a group of you supporters go over to any muslim country throw up a bunch of christian churches and then expect that country to recognize our constitution. When that happens I am all for the mosques, until then if certain people want to take extreme measures, speak up about it and get down right nasty, they have my support, not the people trying to take over this country.

[∞∞∞]

I will make you guys a deal.

I will allow all the mosques to be built in the US AFTER a group of you supporters go over to any muslim country throw up a bunch of christian churches and then expect that country to recognize our constitution. When that happens I am all for the mosques, until then if certain people want to take extreme measures, speak up about it and get down right nasty, they have my support, not the people trying to take over this country.

[dbackjon]

I will make you guys a deal.

I will allow all the mosques to be built in the US AFTER a group of you supporters go over to any muslim country throw up a bunch of christian churches and then expect that country to recognize our constitution. When that happens I am all for the mosques, until then if certain people want to take extreme measures, speak up about it and get down right nasty, they have my support, not the people trying to take over this country.

So you don't like the First Amendment either.

What happens in other countries is irrelevant to American law.

[CID1990]

I will make you guys a deal.

I will allow all the mosques to be built in the US AFTER a group of you supporters go over to any muslim country throw up a bunch of christian churches and then expect that country to recognize our constitution. When that happens I am all for the mosques, until then if certain people want to take extreme measures, speak up about it and get down right nasty, they have my support, not the people trying to take over this country.

Let me tell you something, Bubba. That picture doesn't mean crap. I have lived in the Middle East and I have been to every country over there except Syria, and that picture represents the exception, not the norm. In fact, I am going to go out on a limb here and say that that picture is from Lebanon; the ONLY Middle Eastern country where Christians have stood up and resisted the Islamists. They might have a couple of pretty churches next to mosques, but it was paid for in blood and will be again.

Jordan- one of the most moderate and liberal countries in the Middle East, has a law that no new Christian churches can be built except on the sites of old Christian churches. In other words, if you want ot build one, you have to tear one down, or prove that one of the old Byzantine churches once stood on the site. That's a fact, and it is one of the more liberal laws concerning Christian churches in the MIddle East.

Personally, I would protest a mosque near my house because of the fvcking noise coming from the miniarets 5 fvcking times a day. That's a legitimate gripe. Those fvckers will throw your ass in jail AT BEST if you proselytize in THEIR countries, but they want me and you to listen to their sh!t blasted over a loudspeaker multiple times daily.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I will make you guys a deal.

I will allow all the mosques to be built in the US AFTER a group of you supporters go over to any muslim country throw up a bunch of christian churches and then expect that country to recognize our constitution. When that happens I am all for the mosques, until then if certain people want to take extreme measures, speak up about it and get down right nasty, they have my support, not the people trying to take over this country.

So you don't like the First Amendment either.

What happens in other countries is irrelevant to American law.

I am sure you can find many many posts of mine wanting to play by other countries rules and this one is no exception. Chop them down with machetes because they are christians? Where is my wet stone?

Oh and they can say whatever they want they just cant build buildings here and have special laws. There is that "special laws" theme again in your agenda......

[dbackjon]

So you don't like the First Amendment either.

What happens in other countries is irrelevant to American law.

I am sure you can find many many posts of mine wanting to play by other countries rules and this one is no exception. Chop them down with machetes because they are christians? Where is my wet stone?

Oh and they can say whatever they want they just cant build buildings here and have special laws. There is that "special laws" theme again in your agenda......

alphie you ignorant slut

Wanting equality is not wanting special laws.

[∞∞∞]

Let me tell you something, Bubba. That picture doesn't mean crap. I have lived in the Middle East and I have been to every country over there except Syria, and that picture represents the exception, not the norm. In fact, I am going to go out on a limb here and say that that picture is from Lebanon; the ONLY Middle Eastern country where Christians have stood up and resisted the Islamists. They might have a couple of pretty churches next to mosques, but it was paid for in blood and will be again.

Jordan- one of the most moderate and liberal countries in the Middle East, has a law that no new Christian churches can be built except on the sites of old Christian churches. In other words, if you want ot build one, you have to tear one down, or prove that one of the old Byzantine churches once stood on the site. That's a fact, and it is one of the more liberal laws concerning Christian churches in the MIddle East.

Personally, I would protest a mosque near my house because of the fvcking noise coming from the miniarets 5 fvcking times a day. That's a legitimate gripe. Those fvckers will throw your ass in jail AT BEST if you proselytize in THEIR countries, but they want me and you to listen to their sh!t blasted over a loudspeaker multiple times daily.

Seriously, have you ever heard a loudspeaker from a mosque in the US? Yeah probably not 'cause in almost every locality in the US they're banned (of course church bells are often ok ).

And yes, that picture is from Lebanon. Also, your post clearly shows you have absolutely no understanding of the dynamics in the country between Christianity and Islam. "A couple of pretty churches?" There's over a 1000 in a country that's smaller than Connecticut...many right next to each other (my home over there is next to a church that's next to mosque...both bells and minarets go off). After the civil war, there's been much support between Christians and Muslims in Lebanon and unless you've lived there for a few years, you clearly don't understand how they've worked together to build the country up (for God's sake our President is Christian). There's really no major malice between the two anymore other than with Hezbollah, and even then, Lebanese Christian leaders and Hezbollah have been having open talks lately (in addition to denouncing each other...typical politics).

I won't speak for the rest of the Middle East as I've only visited other countries and didn't live in any of them, but Alpha asked for only one example, and Lebanon was it.

[citdog]

Let me tell you something, Bubba. That picture doesn't mean crap. I have lived in the Middle East and I have been to every country over there except Syria, and that picture represents the exception, not the norm. In fact, I am going to go out on a limb here and say that that picture is from Lebanon; the ONLY Middle Eastern country where Christians have stood up and resisted the Islamists. They might have a couple of pretty churches next to mosques, but it was paid for in blood and will be again.

Jordan- one of the most moderate and liberal countries in the Middle East, has a law that no new Christian churches can be built except on the sites of old Christian churches. In other words, if you want ot build one, you have to tear one down, or prove that one of the old Byzantine churches once stood on the site. That's a fact, and it is one of the more liberal laws concerning Christian churches in the MIddle East.

Personally, I would protest a mosque near my house because of the fvcking noise coming from the miniarets 5 fvcking times a day. That's a legitimate gripe. Those fvckers will throw your ass in jail AT BEST if you proselytize in THEIR countries, but they want me and you to listen to their sh!t blasted over a loudspeaker multiple times daily.

Seriously, have you ever heard a loudspeaker from a mosque in the US? Yeah probably not 'cause in almost every locality in the US they're banned (of course church bells are often ok ).

And yes, that picture is from Lebanon. Also, your post clearly shows you have absolutely no understanding of the dynamics in the country between Christianity and Islam. "A couple of pretty churches?" There's over a 1000 in a country that's smaller than Connecticut...many right next to each other (my home over there is next to a church that's next to mosque...both bells and minarets go off). After the civil war, there's been much support between Christians and Muslims in Lebanon and unless you've lived there for a few years, you clearly don't understand how they've worked together to build the country up (for God's sake our President is Christian). There's really no major malice between the two anymore other than with Hezbollah, and even then, Lebanese Christian leaders and Hezbollah have been having open talks lately (in addition to denouncing each other...typical politics).

I won't speak for the rest of the Middle East as I've only visited other countries and didn't live in any of them, but Alpha asked for only one example, and Lebanon was it.

keep letting hezbollah control your country and your faggot, pork eating, worthless military and the JEWS will roll through there again as is our RIGHT.

[Rob Iola]

C'mon - if people feel strongly about something then it's a debate worth having, pure and simple, especially when it's a highly charged topic like this one is.

My issue is that it's a highly charged topic based on all the wrong reasons. Some things simply aren't worth debating when there's absolutely no rational logic from one side, regardless of how strongly the feelings are. It's like debating an internet troll, just in real life. Different arguments on the economy, immigration, and abortion all have legitimate reasoning behind the respective arguments. However, something like this doesn't; it's based on an irrational fear. If someone is just trying to legally live their life how they want, s/he shouldn't have to be subjagated to the hostility and the demands of others. These Muslims have done nothing wrong, and they're not being judged based on what's in their heart, but instead on notions preconceived from the actions of others.

coco, I like you and everything (and please accept my apologies in advance for the strong language below - but you have to understand how many Americans feel), but this argument is nonsensical - "not worth debating" because no rational logic? And you inject abortion into this? I can guarantee you that BOTH sides of the abortion argument (killing babies vs. hands off my body) think that the other side has no rational logic. I happen to think that I'm a level-headed kinda guy (voted for both Donks and Conks for all offices, including president), and I'm pretty anxious about what's going on in the world with extremism, notably Muslim extremism. Does that mean that I should fear a mosque being built in my community? I don't know, but it's not an irrational fear, and certainly not something that I want to be told that I can't debate.

I want to walk onto an airplane without being virtually strip-searched or groped - I want to see newspapers IN THIS COUNTRY not have to worry about publishing cartoons on Muhammed (let alone have people IN THIS COUNTRY not fear for their lives for blogging about them) - I want to know that extremist fucks like Omar Abdel-Rahman aren't going to preach hate in mosques IN THIS COUNTRY - so fuck your religion until you get your house in order - how's that for irrational? Tell me one thing - one thing - that you've done to combat religious extremism and promote harmony, and then we can talk. But until then, quit trying to tell me and other Americans what we can and can't debate.

[∞∞∞]

Ok, let's set something aside for a second. Your wording is such that you think I'm not American and that I'm Muslim. I'm born and raised here and as American as you. Second, I'm not a Muslim; I'm not religious in any way. Do I have a Muslim upbringing? Yes. Am I a follower of the religion? No.

Second, it is an irrational fear. American Muslims are just that, Americans that practice a different religion. I've had a few times where I've gone out with my mother shopping and because she wears a hijab, she's been told racial slurs; I've gotten into a few verbal altercations for shit like that. And I can't even recall the amount of dirty looks she's gotten. As for my father, he owns a small business and he's actually had people stop dealing with him when they found out his religion. My parents are two people who have lived here 30+ years just trying to live the "American Dream," and just 'cause some people have an irrational fear of Muslims in this country, it doesn't mean people have to be looked at differently on an individual level. Again, it's what's inside someone's heart that counts. This country is supposed to be the beacon of freedom that all others are measured by, or at least I'd like to think. We shouldn't be regressing backwards to darker times in our country's history. We should be progressing forward and setting good examples for the next generation of Americans to continue what makes the US amazing.

And look man, I'm not telling you not to debate it; everyone has the right to say anything they want. But I think it's a waste of time and money (things we're lacking right now) when we start arguing stuff like this on the goverment level. The Constitution is clear; it is the supreme law of the land and all our citizens are protected under it's words.

So in conclusion, the world is a fucked up place.