Obama's "Iran-Contra" Mexican Arms Smuggling Cover-Up

[LeadBolt]

Regardless of where you stand politically, it is pretty hard to find a valid rationale for this one. I know the big O is extremely intelligent, but this is just plain wrong headed. Hard to believe it is due to his clueless naivety this time.

Easier to believe it was calculated, to lay the foundation for his relentless blame of the gun industry and the 2nd Amendment?

I still have trouble with thinking even these guys are that cynical, but yes it is easier to believe it calculated at achieving their political agenda, despite the toll in human life this will take. They are products of the Chicago political machine....

[native]

Easier to believe it was calculated, to lay the foundation for his relentless blame of the gun industry and the 2nd Amendment?

I still have trouble with thinking even these guys are that cynical, but yes it is easier to believe it calculated at achieving their political agenda, despite the toll in human life this will take. They are products of the Chicago political machine....

It would be hard to believe the Obama administration to be so inept or so evil if we had not witnessed the past two years.

[LeadBolt]

I still have trouble with thinking even these guys are that cynical, but yes it is easier to believe it calculated at achieving their political agenda, despite the toll in human life this will take. They are products of the Chicago political machine....

It would be hard to believe the Obama administration to be so inept or so evil if we had not witnessed the past two years.

Agreed

[native]

It would be hard to believe the Obama administration to be so inept or so evil if we had not witnessed the past two years.

Agreed

It is discouraging to ponder the liklihood that mid-level career law enforcement went along with this BS.

[LeadBolt]

Agreed

It is discouraging to ponder the liklihood that mid-level career law enforcement went along with this BS.

The keyword in your post is "career". It was probably insinuated to those agents that the higher ups would stop this before the guns got to the cartels, that the agents didn't see the whole picture, and that the agents careers might be the first casualty of speaking out.

[travelinman67]

Agreed

It is discouraging to ponder the liklihood that mid-level career law enforcement went along with this BS.

It's systemic. Top level ATF has always been political and corrupt. Disciplining, terminating and threats to discipline for insubordination are VERY common in the ATF. As the testimony has already revealed, the field agents had their moral compass pointed in the right direction, it was the top-level, acting at the behest of Holder, attempting to curry favor with the political appointees, who went awry.

Now, imagine...

...just try to imagine...

...for a few moments...

...the press coverage and hell that would be brought down...

...if this had occurred during a Republican administration.

[Appaholic]

It is discouraging to ponder the liklihood that mid-level career law enforcement went along with this BS.

It's systemic. Top level ATF has always been political and corrupt. Disciplining, terminating and threats to discipline for insubordination are VERY common in the ATF. As the testimony has already revealed, the field agents had their moral compass pointed in the right direction, it was the top-level, acting at the behest of Holder, attempting to curry favor with the political appointees, who went awry.

Now, imagine...

...just try to imagine...

...for a few moments...

...the press coverage and hell that would be brought down...

...if this had occurred during a Republican administration.

It's the EPA's fault....them & Sea Shepherd...

[houndawg]

It is discouraging to ponder the liklihood that mid-level career law enforcement went along with this BS.

It's systemic. Top level ATF has always been political and corrupt. Disciplining, terminating and threats to discipline for insubordination are VERY common in the ATF. As the testimony has already revealed, the field agents had their moral compass pointed in the right direction, it was the top-level, acting at the behest of Holder, attempting to curry favor with the political appointees, who went awry.

Now, imagine...

...just try to imagine...

...for a few moments...

...the press coverage and hell that would be brought down...

...if this had occurred during a Republican administration.

You mean like all those heads that rolled when the higher ups at FBI didn't listen to the field guys reports of mid-eastern flight students who didn't want to learn how to land a plane?

[houndawg]

It's systemic. Top level ATF has always been political and corrupt. Disciplining, terminating and threats to discipline for insubordination are VERY common in the ATF. As the testimony has already revealed, the field agents had their moral compass pointed in the right direction, it was the top-level, acting at the behest of Holder, attempting to curry favor with the political appointees, who went awry.

Now, imagine...

...just try to imagine...

...for a few moments...

...the press coverage and hell that would be brought down...

...if this had occurred during a Republican administration.

It's the EPA's fault....them & Sea Shepherd...

Wolves.......

[kalm]

It would be hard to believe the Obama administration to be so inept or so evil if we had not witnessed the past two years.

Agreed

It's downright sinister I tell ya.

[travelinman67]

Jeezus...

Obama Admin fires "Project Gunrunner" whistleblower, 24 yr ATF veteran...

...whoever signed off on this, a year before a Presidential election, should be shown the door.

ATF Director Melson HAD TO HAVE SIGNED OFF...AG Holder and Obama handlers (chief counsel) would have had to sign off also...

...epic fuck up.

Obama Administration Fires ATF Whistleblower
June 28,2011
By Maxim Lott

http://nation.foxnews.com/botched-gun-o ... stleblower

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is being accused of retaliating against an agent who helped publicize the agency’s role in allowing thousands of guns to cross the U.S. border and fall into the hands of Mexican drug gangs.

The agent, Vince Cefalu, who has spoken out about the ATF's so-called "Project Gunrunner" scandal, says he was served with termination papers just last week, and he calls the move politically motivated.

“Aside from Jay Dobyns, I don't know of anyone that's been more vocal about ATF mismanagement than me,” said Cefalu, a senior special agent based in Dublin, Calif. “That's why this is happening.” Dobyns, an ATF special agent based in Tucson, has appeared several times on Fox News to discuss the scandal.

Cefalu first told FoxNews.com about the ATF’s embattled anti-gun smuggling operation in December, before the first reports on the story appeared in February. “Simply put, we knowingly let hundreds of guns and dozens of identified bad guys go across the border,” Cefalu said at the time.

Since then, Cefalu’s claims have been vindicated, as a number of agents with first-hand knowledge of the case came forward. The scandal over Project Gunrunner led to congressional hearings, a presidential reprimand – Obama called the operation “a serious mistake” – and speculation that ATF chief Ken Melson will resign.

Yet last week, Cefalu, who has worked for the agency for 24 years, was forced to turn in his gun and badge. He can appeal but will be on “paid administrative leave” during the process.

There's little doubt Director Melson's actions were intended to intimidate other whistleblowers...sad day for ATF.


[youtube][/youtube]

[travelinman67]

AAAAaaaaaannnnddd....

...ATF Director Melson shift the blame to DOJ...

Justice Department Obstructing 'Fast and Furious' Gun Probe, ATF Director Says

By William Lajeunesse
Published July 06, 2011

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/07 ... ctor-says/

The Justice Department is obstructing the congressional investigation of a U.S. law enforcement operation intended to crack down on major weapons traffickers on the Southwest border, according to the embattled leader of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Ken Melson, the acting director of the ATF, lobbed the accusation when he sneaked in for an interview with congressional investigators on July 4, two days ahead of his scheduled interview with the inspector general about the operation known as "Fast and Furious," Fox News has learned.

"If his account is accurate, then ATF leadership appears to have been effectively muzzled while the DOJ sent over false denials and buried its head in the sand," Rep. Darrell Issa, chairman of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee, said in a letter Tuesday to Attorney General Eric Holder. "That approach distorted the truth and obstructed our investigation."

The Justice Department is reportedly looking to oust Melson, who has been acting ATF director since April 2009, as the agency deals with its biggest scandal in nearly two decades. Andrew Traver, who was tapped in November by President Obama to become the permanent ATF director, could be named as acting director until the Senate acts on his nomination, sources have said.

In a separate development, congressional sources have learned that not only was U.S. taxpayer money being used to buy guns that were later sent to Mexico, but the main target of the investigation was actually a FBI informant and former drug dealer who had been deported years ago.

"Fast and Furious" has been at the center of an investigation by Issa and Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa. The operation began in the fall of 2009 as an effort to trace and stop the trafficking of illegal guns on the Southwest border, but instead allowed thousands of guns to get into the hands of Mexican cartel members.

The two say they learned about the program after Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was killed in December 2010. At the crime scene were two guns linked to the "Fast and Furious" operation.

At an Oversight and Government Reform Committee hearing last month, three federal firearms investigators testified that they wanted to "intervene and interdict" loads of guns, but were repeatedly ordered to step aside to allow suspected smugglers to carry the weapons over the border.

Issa and Grassley have urged Holder to cooperate and turn over subpoenaed records that would reveal the scope of the government coverup.

The alleged coverup involves three law enforcement agencies: the ATF, FBI and the DEA, or Drug Enforcement Administration.

According to sources, unbeknown to the ATF, the target of their operation was a FBI confidential informant, a fact that only became known to them in April of this year after an 18-month investigation that cost millions of dollars of tax dollars.

"They were going after someone they could never have," a source in Washington told Fox News. "The Mr. Big they wanted was using government money to buy guns that went to the cartels. The FBI knew it and didn't tell them."

The confidential informant is a former high-level drug dealer who had been deported by the DEA. The FBI, however, recruited him as a counter-terrorism informant, providing information on potential dirty bombs or Al Qaeda suspects moving through the border region.

The FBI informant was picked up on a DEA wiretap, and forwarded to the ATF.

[CID1990]

A lot of the above comments concerning poor upper level management at ATF and other Federal law enforcement agencies are pretty much spot on. I have a lot of experience with ATF and one other agency, and I can tell you that ATF and FBI are absolutely bankrupt of real cops at the top.

The obvious lack of judgment at the top levels at ATF (and other agencies) is the VERY SAME lack of judgment that brought you Waco and Ruby Ridge.

Want to know why?

Because there was a period of time back during the 1970s and 1980s when the FBI and ATF stopped hiring ex-cops. The FBI used to be full of Irish coppers and somewhere along the line, some idiot at DoJ decided that

1) Ex-cops are a little too "blue collar" for elite federal agencies.

2) The FBI (and others) needs accountants and lawyers (to build RICO, tax evasion and money laundering cases).

At that point, federal hiring of cops at the 5-10 year experience level dropped through the floor, and agents were being hired straight out of law schools and colleges.

We are still paying for this elitist decision.

Upper management at the federal LE agencies is CHOCK FULL of these people, and they have zero judgment when it comes to making rational law enforcement decisions. For instance, ANY cop worth a sh!t knows that you don't throw milspec tear gas grenades into buildings built completely out of wood, on a dry, windy Texas day.

This hiring trend was reversed at some point in the late 1980's early 1990s and FBI and ATF started hiring cops again, but the eggheads are running the show right now.

[native]

...Guns don't kill people T'man........

...Obma and Holder kill them... but ONLY if they are loyal, upstanding American law enforcement officers...

[Bronco]

-
Looks like Holder will be gone.

Obama's attempt at gun control got an American killed...hope he goes to jail

[native]

...There's little doubt Director Melson's actions were intended to intimidate other whistleblowers...sad day for ATF.

[youtube][/youtube]

Acting ATF Director Kenneth Melson was apparently getting his orders from the Justice Department. In case you missed it, Melson is singing like a canary to Congressman Issa's oversight committee.

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/07/06/a ... y-fallout/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CID1990]

...There's little doubt Director Melson's actions were intended to intimidate other whistleblowers...sad day for ATF.

[youtube][/youtube]

Acting ATF Director Kenneth Melson was apparently getting his orders from the Justice Department. In case you missed it, Melson is singing like a canary to Congressman Issa's oversight committee.

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/07/06/a ... y-fallout/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Under normal circumstances, Holder would be gone.

But these are not normal circumstances. Look for more obfuscation, maybe an outright refusal to submit the requested docs, possibly a trial ballon to see if executive privilege can be invoked, and even a race card or two.

[travelinman67]

A lot of the above comments concerning poor upper level management at ATF and other Federal law enforcement agencies are pretty much spot on. I have a lot of experience with ATF and one other agency, and I can tell you that ATF and FBI are absolutely bankrupt of real cops at the top.

The obvious lack of judgment at the top levels at ATF (and other agencies) is the VERY SAME lack of judgment that brought you Waco and Ruby Ridge.

Want to know why?

Because there was a period of time back during the 1970s and 1980s when the FBI and ATF stopped hiring ex-cops. The FBI used to be full of Irish coppers and somewhere along the line, some idiot at DoJ decided that

1) Ex-cops are a little too "blue collar" for elite federal agencies.

2) The FBI (and others) needs accountants and lawyers (to build RICO, tax evasion and money laundering cases).

At that point, federal hiring of cops at the 5-10 year experience level dropped through the floor, and agents were being hired straight out of law schools and colleges.

We are still paying for this elitist decision.

Upper management at the federal LE agencies is CHOCK FULL of these people, and they have zero judgment when it comes to making rational law enforcement decisions. For instance, ANY cop worth a sh!t knows that you don't throw milspec tear gas grenades into buildings built completely out of wood, on a dry, windy Texas day.

This hiring trend was reversed at some point in the late 1980's early 1990s and FBI and ATF started hiring cops again, but the eggheads are running the show right now.

True 'dat!

The feds need the bean counters and lawyers...but even then, how in the hell can a college grad fully understand the nuances/methods of white collar crime? The eggheads should NEVER be trained to, or expected to kick doors or squeeze off shots, nor should they be allowed to supervise the field "cowboys"...that takes a particular psychological profile...and the "hunter" gene. To assert that those traits not be a requirement for administrators shows misunderstanding of the L.E. function.

Melson's stubborness and vidictiveness underscore this problem.

[CID1990]

A lot of the above comments concerning poor upper level management at ATF and other Federal law enforcement agencies are pretty much spot on. I have a lot of experience with ATF and one other agency, and I can tell you that ATF and FBI are absolutely bankrupt of real cops at the top.

The obvious lack of judgment at the top levels at ATF (and other agencies) is the VERY SAME lack of judgment that brought you Waco and Ruby Ridge.

Want to know why?

Because there was a period of time back during the 1970s and 1980s when the FBI and ATF stopped hiring ex-cops. The FBI used to be full of Irish coppers and somewhere along the line, some idiot at DoJ decided that

1) Ex-cops are a little too "blue collar" for elite federal agencies.

2) The FBI (and others) needs accountants and lawyers (to build RICO, tax evasion and money laundering cases).

At that point, federal hiring of cops at the 5-10 year experience level dropped through the floor, and agents were being hired straight out of law schools and colleges.

We are still paying for this elitist decision.

Upper management at the federal LE agencies is CHOCK FULL of these people, and they have zero judgment when it comes to making rational law enforcement decisions. For instance, ANY cop worth a sh!t knows that you don't throw milspec tear gas grenades into buildings built completely out of wood, on a dry, windy Texas day.

This hiring trend was reversed at some point in the late 1980's early 1990s and FBI and ATF started hiring cops again, but the eggheads are running the show right now.

True 'dat!

The feds need the bean counters and lawyers...but even then, how in the hell can a college grad fully understand the nuances/methods of white collar crime? The eggheads should NEVER be trained to, or expected to kick doors or squeeze off shots, nor should they be allowed to supervise the field "cowboys"...that takes a particular psychological profile...and the "hunter" gene. To assert that those traits not be a requirement for administrators shows misunderstanding of the L.E. function.

Melson's stubborness and vidictiveness underscore this problem.

I think Melson may have been under orders from above. In fact I am sure of it. He is actually not one of the white collar types I was talking about. He brought his own lawyer (as opposed to a DoJ or ATF lawyer) to the deposition, which speaks volumes. He knows that the DoJ lawyer is going to look out for the interests of his client, and that client is not Melson.

[houndawg]

I still have trouble with thinking even these guys are that cynical, but yes it is easier to believe it calculated at achieving their political agenda, despite the toll in human life this will take. They are products of the Chicago political machine....

It would be hard to believe the Obama administration to be so inept or so evil if we had not witnessed the past two years.

Guns don't kill people, native....

[CID1990]

It would be hard to believe the Obama administration to be so inept or so evil if we had not witnessed the past two years.

Guns don't kill people, native....

No, Mexican narcos kill people.

That's why you don't just give them guns and let them ride.

[SDHornet]

Guns don't kill people, native....

No, Mexican narcos kill people.

That's why you don't just give them guns and let them ride.

Not to try to take away from the severity of this whole gun runner debacle, but we (USA gov) have given weapons to worse groups of people.

[Skjellyfetti]

And Mexican narcos don't have much trouble legally buying their guns in the US.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/he ... n-u.s..ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[travelinman67]

True 'dat!

The feds need the bean counters and lawyers...but even then, how in the hell can a college grad fully understand the nuances/methods of white collar crime? The eggheads should NEVER be trained to, or expected to kick doors or squeeze off shots, nor should they be allowed to supervise the field "cowboys"...that takes a particular psychological profile...and the "hunter" gene. To assert that those traits not be a requirement for administrators shows misunderstanding of the L.E. function.

Melson's stubborness and vidictiveness underscore this problem.

I think Melson may have been under orders from above. In fact I am sure of it. He is actually not one of the white collar types I was talking about. He brought his own lawyer (as opposed to a DoJ or ATF lawyer) to the deposition, which speaks volumes. He knows that the DoJ lawyer is going to look out for the interests of his client, and that client is not Melson.

Curious as to your opinion...

...do you think the decision to axe the whistleblowers came from ATF attys as Melson alleged, or DOJ?

From what I know, it's been ATF's past policy to target/harass whistleblowers/threats going back to the 80's...long before Melson; i.e., it's a systemic problem.

Holder's actions, however, have been 180 deg wrong from day one...so I wouldn't be surprised if this nonsense was a DOJ directive as you suggest.

[CID1990]

I think Melson may have been under orders from above. In fact I am sure of it. He is actually not one of the white collar types I was talking about. He brought his own lawyer (as opposed to a DoJ or ATF lawyer) to the deposition, which speaks volumes. He knows that the DoJ lawyer is going to look out for the interests of his client, and that client is not Melson.

Curious as to your opinion...

...do you think the decision to axe the whistleblowers came from ATF attys as Melson alleged, or DOJ?

From what I know, it's been ATF's past policy to target/harass whistleblowers/threats going back to the 80's...long before Melson; i.e., it's a systemic problem.

Holder's actions, however, have been 180 deg wrong from day one...so I wouldn't be surprised if this nonsense was a DOJ directive as you suggest.

Melson's allegation is the simplest answer (which is usually the right one), and in law enforcement circles, that is generally how this kind of thing happens. A manager (someone above Melson) put the question to DoJ attorneys- "Can we dump this guy for cause and simultaneously avoid him having a forum in a civil suit?" This is nothing more than a scorched earth strategy. Someone decided that the fallout from firing the whistleblower would not be as bad as NOT firing him, because that might encourage others to step forward.

DoJ grossly miscalculated on this one. It's amateur hour.