LOL - Results of GA immigration bill

[SDHornet]

So, the extension of your logic is that we're keeping these 13,000,000 out of prison by giving them free money each month to NOT work?

I ‘m not sure where you get where I was implying this from. My point is a large majority of the currently unemployed folks will not volunteer or go out and work these agribusiness jobs. Who knows what they would do if their welfare was taken away, but heading out into the country to harvest crops sure as hell ain’t one of them.

[SDHornet]

I worked on my dad's hog farm and later digging graves and cutting grass while in college.

My point is that there are thousands of kids in Georgia sitting on their collective asses this summer in addition to all the unemployment and welfare recipients. The law did exactly what it is supposed to. Too bad they didn't go far enough in mandating work for welfare (and yes, drug testing as well) rules.

Ding, ding, ding!

As a pre-teen and teen, I bailed hay and worked on my grandfather's farm. We didn't sit in front of a TV all day expecting our parents or the government to toss us money.

jellybean and SDHornet are part of the problem...they are lazy thinkers making excuses for lazy people.

Actually businesses that hire illegal labor are the cause of the problem. Swing and a miss, nice try though.

And I agree with your example of laziness above, I certainly didn’t have the luxury of sitting around on my ass during my summer growing up. And if you think I condone illegal immigration you are dead wrong. My point is the solution to this issue is very complex and simply closing the border without addressing a lot of other issues that will arise from such a move will not suffice.

[SDHornet]

That being said, I will add this:

Our path to naturalized citizenship is ridiculously long and paved with government red tape. It needs to be addressed along with border control issues.

This. Along with someway of forcing unemployed folks into these jobs combined with taking away their welfare if they turn down said jobs. Either way this stuff will be like moving mountains in the political arena and we will most likely be stuck with the status quo.

[AZGrizFan]

So, the extension of your logic is that we're keeping these 13,000,000 out of prison by giving them free money each month to NOT work?

I ‘m not sure where you get where I was implying this from. My point is a large majority of the currently unemployed folks will not volunteer or go out and work these agribusiness jobs. Who knows what they would do if their welfare was taken away, but heading out into the country to harvest crops sure as hell ain’t one of them.

THey gonna starve, then?

[SDHornet]

THey gonna starve, then?

If they don’t eat, yes, they will starve.

[CID1990]

AnalGlue, that's a nice reference. Using poetry to condone illegal actions, very nice. I don't think that is what Emma Lazurus had in mind. Millions of immigrants from Europe came to America and became citizens. Millions have come from around the world and have become citizens. The message is true, but why should they have a free ride? Would you allow me, my 2 brothers, 2 sisters and parents to just mooch off of you and your family, indefinetly? Of course not. If you want to be here, BECOME A CITIZEN! I don't see the big problem here. I don't see the issue with this? You don't want to be a citizen, yet you want to take advantage of what we have? Get a Visa!

That being said, I will add this:

Our path to naturalized citizenship is ridiculously long and paved with government red tape. It needs to be addressed along with border control issues.

AZ, the pathway to naturalization is of course a pain because the Federal government controls it.

That said, the number one impediment to passing the test is having enough of a command of the English language to do so. I have absolutely no problem with that. As it is, Legal Permanent Residents have few incentives to naturalize. Take away an LPRs right to social security and you'll see a lot more of them mastering Engrish and naturalizing.

[Grizalltheway]

That being said, I will add this:

Our path to naturalized citizenship is ridiculously long and paved with government red tape. It needs to be addressed along with border control issues.

AZ, the pathway to naturalization is of course a pain because the Federal government controls it.

That said, the number one impediment to passing the test is having enough of a command of the English language to do so. I have absolutely no problem with that. As it is, Legal Permanent Residents have few incentives to naturalize. Take away an LPRs right to social security and you'll see a lot more of them mastering Engrish and naturalizing.

I would imagine so. Good friend of mine's mother is originally from Canada, married an American citizen probably 25 years ago, and has never bothered to get American citizenship.

[JohnStOnge]

Two principles here in my opinion; both of which have been alluded to. First, labor is worth what people are willing to pay for it and supply vs. demand playes a role. If no illegal immigrant labor were available, producers would eventually be forced to offer enough compensation to entice people legally in the country to do the work. Of course this would have to be nationwide. If Georgia does it alone Georgia producers are at a competetive disadvantage.

Second, the fact that we live in a country that has decided that government is responsible for providing "safety nets" and otherwise trying to ensure the well being of each individual plays a role. If there were no welfare programs, no unemployment benefits, no programs at all designed to keep people going when they could not or would not keep themselves going, people would be much more willing to take jobs they won't take under today's circumstances.

If I had my way there would be no incentive for illegal aliens to be here in terms of social programs, health care, etc. because our government wouldn't be doing it. And they would probably find themselves more in competition with "natives" because those "natives" would have to sink or swim on their own without government assistance as well. Many people who now deign not to work because they think certain jobs they could get are "beneath" them or because they are just flat lazy and don't see why they should work a particular job because they can do just as well being a parasite would be working those jobs "Americans won't work."

Meanwhile we would also not be doing things like allowing people who are not here legally make use of public schools, etc. Local and State taxpayers would not be forced to fund the education for children of people who are not legally in the country.

I'd also consider making it a criminal violation to knowingly support and assist someone in the country illegally. There would be no water stations int he desert, etc. If they're stupid enough to put themselves and/or their children into position to die of dehydration in the desert they and/or their children just die of dehydration in the desert.

[blueballs]

Two principles here in my opinion; both of which have been alluded to. First, labor is worth what people are willing to pay for it and supply vs. demand playes a role. If no illegal immigrant labor were available, producers would eventually be forced to offer enough compensation to entice people legally in the country to do the work. Of course this would have to be nationwide. If Georgia does it alone Georgia producers are at a competetive disadvantage.

Second, the fact that we live in a country that has decided that government is responsible for providing "safety nets" and otherwise trying to ensure the well being of each individual plays a role. If there were no welfare programs, no unemployment benefits, no programs at all designed to keep people going when they could not or would not keep themselves going, people would be much more willing to take jobs they won't take under today's circumstances.

If I had my way there would be no incentive for illegal aliens to be here in terms of social programs, health care, etc. because our government wouldn't be doing it. And they would probably find themselves more in competition with "natives" because those "natives" would have to sink or swim on their own without government assistance as well. Many people who now deign not to work because they think certain jobs they could get are "beneath" them or because they are just flat lazy and don't see why they should work a particular job because they can do just as well being a parasite would be working those jobs "Americans won't work."

Meanwhile we would also not be doing things like allowing people who are not here legally make use of public schools, etc. Local and State taxpayers would not be forced to fund the education for children of people who are not legally in the country.

I'd also consider making it a criminal violation to knowingly support and assist someone in the country illegally. There would be no water stations int he desert, etc. If they're stupid enough to put themselves and/or their children into position to die of dehydration in the desert they and/or their children just die of dehydration in the desert.

Pretty much sums it up...

[kalm]

Ding, ding, ding!

As a pre-teen and teen, I bailed hay and worked on my grandfather's farm. We didn't sit in front of a TV all day expecting our parents or the government to toss us money.

jellybean and SDHornet are part of the problem...they are lazy thinkers making excuses for lazy people.

Actually businesses that hire illegal labor are the cause of the problem. Swing and a miss, nice try though.

And I agree with your example of laziness above, I certainly didn’t have the luxury of sitting around on my ass during my summer growing up. And if you think I condone illegal immigration you are dead wrong. My point is the solution to this issue is very complex and simply closing the border without addressing a lot of other issues that will arise from such a move will not suffice.

It is an illegal employer problem. Throw a few of these farmers in jail and you might not have to close borders. And if there's a rise in demand for labor then wages will increase enough to make jobs more attractive for americans. Of course prices will increase as well, but then again we probably shouldn't have warm weather crops available in the dead of winter as cheap as they are anyway.

[houndawg]

Unfortunately, Georgia has fostered a society for almost 300 years that believes this kind of work isn't fit for white people.

If by "fostered a society" you mean continued paying extended unemployment benefits so folks don't have to get off their lazy ass and find a **** job, then you're absolutely correct. As long as somebody is going to give me $260 to sit on my ass and eat cheetos all day, why would I EVER want to go out and work for $320 a week? Is it REALLY that difficult to understand? We'd rather pay people to NOT work??? Really? But yet we bitch about unemployment?

This is rich; a banker lecturing about the benefits of hard work.

[houndawg]

So, the extension of your logic is that we're keeping these 13,000,000 out of prison by giving them free money each month to NOT work?

I ‘m not sure where you get where I was implying this from. My point is a large majority of the currently unemployed folks will not volunteer or go out and work these agribusiness jobs. Who knows what they would do if their welfare was taken away, but heading out into the country to harvest crops sure as hell ain’t one of them.

Not with the cost of fuel what it is, even if they had a car.


One thing apparent from this thread is that our usual honk champions of hard work for low wages don't know very much about farm work.

[AZGrizFan]

If by "fostered a society" you mean continued paying extended unemployment benefits so folks don't have to get off their lazy ass and find a **** job, then you're absolutely correct. As long as somebody is going to give me $260 to sit on my ass and eat cheetos all day, why would I EVER want to go out and work for $320 a week? Is it REALLY that difficult to understand? We'd rather pay people to NOT work??? Really? But yet we bitch about unemployment?

This is rich; a banker lecturing about the benefits of hard work.

My work is of the mental kind. Something you wouldn't understand.

[AZGrizFan]

I ‘m not sure where you get where I was implying this from. My point is a large majority of the currently unemployed folks will not volunteer or go out and work these agribusiness jobs. Who knows what they would do if their welfare was taken away, but heading out into the country to harvest crops sure as hell ain’t one of them.

Not with the cost of fuel what it is, even if they had a car.


One thing apparent from this thread is that our usual honk champions of hard work for low wages don't know very much about farm work.

a) most of us "honks" worked our ASSES off in a physical labor field prior to getting smart and using our brains instead of our brawn to get rich.
b) ALL of us drive to work. Is it too much to expect the unemployed to drive to work too? I'm fairly certain that if the farmer had to bus the workers each day he'd do that rather than have his crops rot in the fields.

Quit making excuses for the unemployed, dawg. There are jobs, but they don't want them. They don't want them because they're getting free money to do nothing. Don't make it more complicated than it is.

[D1B]

Man, Z ain't gonna be sittin down for a month.

Way to kick his dumb ass SK!

[houndawg]

This is rich; a banker lecturing about the benefits of hard work.

My work is of the mental kind. Something you wouldn't understand.

Move money from one pile to another and keep a little for yourself. Anybody can do it, the job should pay about $8/hr.

[89Hen]

Nobody wants to work those jobs, AZ.

That's what liberals have said ad nauseum ever since Arizona brought up the original bill. Conservatives always claim "THEY'RE TAKING THE JOBS OF HARDWORKING AMERICANS." lol. There aren't any hardworking americans anymore.

So once you make a path to citizenship for them, they won't work anymore either.

[AZGrizFan]

Man, Z ain't gonna be sittin down for a month.

Way to kick his dumb ass SK!

You're a funny guy.

[JohnStOnge]

It is an illegal employer problem. Throw a few of these farmers in jail and you might not have to close borders. And if there's a rise in demand for labor then wages will increase enough to make jobs more attractive for americans. Of course prices will increase as well, but then again we probably shouldn't have warm weather crops available in the dead of winter as cheap as they are anyway.

I would agree if it weren't for my belief that employers would be penalized for using the obvious tool of ethnic and linguistic profiling in order to protect themselves and focus their efforts. It's like if I'm an employer here in South Louisiana and some white guy with a thick Cajun accent applies I don't think it necessary to check and make sure he's a citizen. But if some guy who looks Mexican who can barely speak English or can't speak it at all or who has a very thick Mexican accent comes up I might think it'd be a good idea to make sure he's here legally. And that's perfectly rational.

People say illegal aliens can come from anywhere. But we all know most of them come from South of our border. We all know that's the big problem. So if we're going to hold employers accountable let's get out of their face with respect to the "discrimination" stuff and drop the egalitarian nonsense of acting like there's something wrong with dealing with reality.

[kalm]

It is an illegal employer problem. Throw a few of these farmers in jail and you might not have to close borders. And if there's a rise in demand for labor then wages will increase enough to make jobs more attractive for americans. Of course prices will increase as well, but then again we probably shouldn't have warm weather crops available in the dead of winter as cheap as they are anyway.

I would agree if it weren't for my belief that employers would be penalized for using the obvious tool of ethnic and linguistic profiling in order to protect themselves and focus their efforts. It's like if I'm an employer here in South Louisiana and some white guy with a thick Cajun accent applies I don't think it necessary to check and make sure he's a citizen. But if some guy who looks Mexican who can barely speak English or can't speak it at all or who has a very thick Mexican accent comes up I might think it'd be a good idea to make sure he's here legally. And that's perfectly rational.

People say illegal aliens can come from anywhere. But we all know most of them come from South of our border. We all know that's the big problem. So if we're going to hold employers accountable let's get out of their face with respect to the "discrimination" stuff and drop the egalitarian nonsense of acting like there's something wrong with dealing with reality.

I pretty much agree, but I'm not so sure there's that much of a threat.

[houndawg]

It is an illegal employer problem. Throw a few of these farmers in jail and you might not have to close borders. And if there's a rise in demand for labor then wages will increase enough to make jobs more attractive for americans. Of course prices will increase as well, but then again we probably shouldn't have warm weather crops available in the dead of winter as cheap as they are anyway.

I would agree if it weren't for my belief that employers would be penalized for using the obvious tool of ethnic and linguistic profiling in order to protect themselves and focus their efforts. It's like if I'm an employer here in South Louisiana and some white guy with a thick Cajun accent applies I don't think it necessary to check and make sure he's a citizen. But if some guy who looks Mexican who can barely speak English or can't speak it at all or who has a very thick Mexican accent comes up I might think it'd be a good idea to make sure he's here legally. And that's perfectly rational.

People say illegal aliens can come from anywhere. But we all know most of them come from South of our border. We all know that's the big problem. So if we're going to hold employers accountable let's get out of their face with respect to the "discrimination" stuff and drop the egalitarian nonsense of acting like there's something wrong with dealing with reality.

Why do you think this, John? You have to show a birth certificate to get a driver's license.

[D1B]

I worked on my dad's hog farm and later digging graves and cutting grass while in college.

My point is that there are thousands of kids in Georgia sitting on their collective asses this summer in addition to all the unemployment and welfare recipients. The law did exactly what it is supposed to. Too bad they didn't go far enough in mandating work for welfare (and yes, drug testing as well) rules.

Ding, ding, ding!

As a pre-teen and teen, I bailed hay and worked on my grandfather's farm. We didn't sit in front of a TV all day expecting our parents or the government to toss us money.

jellybean and SDHornet are part of the problem...they are lazy thinkers making excuses for lazy people.

Good for you, Dumbfuck. While you were working, you had no children and your mommy and daddy paid ALL the bills and provided you with a home.

Dipshit liar.

[GannonFan]

I would agree if it weren't for my belief that employers would be penalized for using the obvious tool of ethnic and linguistic profiling in order to protect themselves and focus their efforts. It's like if I'm an employer here in South Louisiana and some white guy with a thick Cajun accent applies I don't think it necessary to check and make sure he's a citizen. But if some guy who looks Mexican who can barely speak English or can't speak it at all or who has a very thick Mexican accent comes up I might think it'd be a good idea to make sure he's here legally. And that's perfectly rational.

People say illegal aliens can come from anywhere. But we all know most of them come from South of our border. We all know that's the big problem. So if we're going to hold employers accountable let's get out of their face with respect to the "discrimination" stuff and drop the egalitarian nonsense of acting like there's something wrong with dealing with reality.

Why do you think this, John? You have to show a birth certificate to get a driver's license.

yeah, no loopholes in that process. Good thing illegal aliens can't easily get driver's licenses. Imagine how confusing that would be!

[AZGrizFan]

Ding, ding, ding!

As a pre-teen and teen, I bailed hay and worked on my grandfather's farm. We didn't sit in front of a TV all day expecting our parents or the government to toss us money.

jellybean and SDHornet are part of the problem...they are lazy thinkers making excuses for lazy people.

Good for you, Dumbfuck. While you were working, you had no children and your mommy and daddy paid ALL the bills and provided you with a home.

Dipshit liar.

So?

[houndawg]

Why do you think this, John? You have to show a birth certificate to get a driver's license.

yeah, no loopholes in that process. Good thing illegal aliens can't easily get driver's licenses. Imagine how confusing that would be!

Do you do that misconstruing thing on purpose, GF?

Clearly my response was directed at John's contention that employers would be penalized for profiling, which is a pretty feeble excuse for allowing companies to shirk responsibility.