Jobs Situation Worse Than It Looks

Political discussions
Post Reply
User avatar
travelinman67
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 9884
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:51 pm
I am a fan of: Portland State Vikings
A.K.A.: Modern Man
Location: Where the 1st Amendment still exists: CS.com

Jobs Situation Worse Than It Looks

Post by travelinman67 »

From Mort Zuckerman, US News.

Disagree with him more often than not, but this time he's refreshingly candid and transparent (spin-free) about the severity of our economic crisis:

Why the Jobs Situation Is Worse Than It Looks
We now have more idle men and women than at any time since the Great Depression

By Mortimer B. Zuckerman
Posted: June 20, 2011

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/mzuckerma ... s?PageNr=1

(unedited)
The Great Recession has now earned the dubious right of being compared to the Great Depression. In the face of the most stimulative fiscal and monetary policies in our history, we have experienced the loss of over 7 million jobs, wiping out every job gained since the year 2000. From the moment the Obama administration came into office, there have been no net increases in full-time jobs, only in part-time jobs. This is contrary to all previous recessions. Employers are not recalling the workers they laid off from full-time employment.




The real job losses are greater than the estimate of 7.5 million. They are closer to 10.5 million, as 3 million people have stopped looking for work. Equally troublesome is the lower labor participation rate; some 5 million jobs have vanished from manufacturing, long America's greatest strength. Just think: Total payrolls today amount to 131 million, but this figure is lower than it was at the beginning of the year 2000, even though our population has grown by nearly 30 million. [Check out a roundup of political cartoons on the economy.]

The most recent statistics are unsettling and dismaying, despite the increase of 54,000 jobs in the May numbers. Nonagricultural full-time employment actually fell by 142,000, on top of the 291,000 decline the preceding month. Half of the new jobs created are in temporary help agencies, as firms resist hiring full-time workers.

Today, over 14 million people are unemployed. We now have more idle men and women than at any time since the Great Depression. Nearly seven people in the labor pool compete for every job opening. Hiring announcements have plunged to 10,248 in May, down from 59,648 in April. Hiring is now 17 percent lower than the lowest level in the 2001-02 downturn. One fifth of all men of prime working age are not getting up and going to work. Equally disturbing is that the number of people unemployed for six months or longer grew 361,000 to 6.2 million, increasing their share of the unemployed to 45.1 percent. We face the specter that long-term unemployment is becoming structural and not just cyclical, raising the risk that the jobless will lose their skills and become permanently unemployable. [See a slide show of the 10 best cities to find a job.]

Don't pay too much attention to the headline unemployment rate of 9.1 percent. It is scary enough, but it is a gloss on the reality. These numbers do not include the millions who have stopped looking for a job or who are working part time but would work full time if a position were available. And they count only those people who have actively applied for a job within the last four weeks.

Include those others and the real number is a nasty 16 percent. The 16 percent includes 8.5 million part-timers who want to work full time (which is double the historical norm) and those who have applied for a job within the last six months, including many of the long-term unemployed. And this 16 percent does not take into account the discouraged workers who have left the labor force. The fact is that the longer duration of six months is the more relevant testing period since the mean duration of unemployment is now 39.7 weeks, an increase from 37.1 weeks in February. [See a slide show of the 10 cities with highest real income.]

The inescapable bottom line is an unprecedented slack in the U.S. labor market. Labor's share of national income has fallen to the lowest level in modern history, down to 57.5 percent in the first quarter as compared to 59.8 percent when the so-called recovery began. This reflects not only the 7 million fewer workers but the fact that wages for part-time workers now average $19,000—less than half the median income.

Just to illustrate how insecure the labor movement is, there is nobody on strike in the United States today, according to David Rosenberg of wealth management firm Gluskin Sheff. Back in the 1970s, it was common in any given month to see as many as 30,000 workers on the picket line, and there were typically 300 work stoppages at any given time. Last year there were a grand total of 11. There are other indirect consequences. The number of people who have applied for permanent disability benefits has soared. Ten years ago, 5 million people were collecting federal disability payments; now 8 million are on the rolls, at a cost to taxpayers of approximately $120 billion a year. The states today owe the federal insurance fund an astonishing $90 billion to cover unemployment benefits. [See cartoons about the deficit and debt.]

In past recessions, the economy recovered lost jobs within 13 months, on average, after the trough. Twenty-three months into a recovery, employment typically increases by around 174,000 jobs monthly, compared to 54,000 this time around. In a typical recovery, we would have had several hundred thousand more hires per month than we are seeing now—this despite unprecedented fiscal and monetary stimulus (including the rescue of the automobile industry, whose collapse would likely have lost a million jobs). Businesses do not seem to have the confidence or the incentive to add staff but prefer to continue the deep cost-cutting they undertook from the onset of the recession.

But hang on. Even to come up with the 54,000 new jobs, the Bureau of Labor Statistics assumed that 206,000 jobs were created by newly formed companies that its analysts believe—but can't prove—were, in effect, born in May under the so-called birth/death model, which relies primarily on historical extrapolations. Without this generous assumption in the face of a slowing economy, the United States would have lost jobs in May. Last year the bureau assumed that 192,000 jobs were created through new start-ups in the comparable month, but on review most of them eventually had to be taken out, as start-ups have been distressingly weak given the lack of financing from their traditional sources such as bank loans, home equity loans, and credit card lines. [Read more stories on unemployment.]

Where are we today? We have seemingly added jobs, but it is not because hiring has increased. In February 2009 there were 4.7 million separations—that is, jobs lost—but by March 2011 this had fallen to 3.8 million. In other words, the pace of layoffs has diminished, but that is not the same thing as more hiring. The employment numbers look better than they really are because of the aggressive layoffs in the early part of this recession and the reluctance of American business to rehire workers. In fact, the apparent improvement in job numbers has been made up of one part extra hiring and two parts reduced firing.

Even during past recessions, American firms still hired large numbers of workers as part of the continual cycle of replacing employees. Of the 150 million workers or job seekers in America, about one third turn over in a typical year, leaving their old jobs to take new ones. High labor "churn" is characteristic of our economy, reflecting workers moving to better jobs and higher wages and away from declining sectors. As Stanford business professor Edward Lazear explains so clearly in the Wall Street Journal, the increase in job growth over the past two years is attributable to a decline in the number of layoffs, not from increased hiring. Typically, when the labor market creates 200,000 jobs, it has been because 5 million were hired and 4.8 million were separated, not just because there were 200,000 hires and no job losses. But when an economy has bottomed out, it has already shed much of its excess labor, as illustrated by the decline in layoffs—from approximately 2.5 million in February 2009 to 1.5 million this April. In a healthy labor market like the one that prevailed in 2006 and into 2007, American firms hired about 5.5 million workers per month. This is now down to about 4 million a month. Quite simply, businesses have been very disciplined in their hiring practices. [Read Zuckerman: America's Fading Exceptionalism.]

We are nowhere near the old normal. Throughout this fragile recovery, over 90 percent of the growth in output has come from productivity gains. But typically at this stage of the cycle, labor has already taken over from productivity as the major contributor of growth. That is why we generally saw nonfarm payroll gains exceeding 300,000 per month with relative ease. This time we have recouped only 17 percent of the job losses 23 months after the recession began, as compared to 207 percent of the jobs lost from previous recessions (with the exception of 2001). There is no comfort either in two leading indicators of employment, with no growth in the workweek or in factory overtime.
Clearly, the Great American Job Machine is breaking down, and roadside assistance is not on the horizon. In the second half of this year (and thereafter?), we will be without the monetary and fiscal steroids. Nor does anyone know what will happen to long-term interest rates when the Federal Reserve ends its $600 billion quantitative easing support of the capital markets. Inventory levels are at their highest since September 2006; new order bookings are at the lowest levels since September 2009. Since home equity has long been the largest asset on the balance sheet of the average American family, all home­owners are suffering from housing prices that have, on average, declined 33 percent (compare that to the Great Depression drop of 31 percent). [See a slide show of the 10 cities with the lowest real income.]

No wonder the general economic mood is one of alarm. The Conference Board measure of U.S. consumer confidence slumped to 60.8 percent in May, down from 66 percent in April and well below the average of 73 in past recessions, never mind the 100-plus numbers in good times. Never before has confidence been this low in the 23rd month of a recovery. Gluskin Sheff's Rosenberg captured it perfectly: We may well be in the midst of a "modern depression."

Our political leadership in both Congress and the White House will surely bear the political costs of a failure to work out short- and long-term programs to fix the job shortage. The stakes are too high to play political games.
"That is how government works - we tell you what you can do today."
- EPA Kommissar Gina McCarthy
User avatar
Cap'n Cat
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 13614
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:38 am
I am a fan of: Mostly myself.
A.K.A.: LabiaInTheSunlight

Re: Jobs Situation Worse Than It Looks

Post by Cap'n Cat »

T,
I have a lot of respect for you and for Mort Zuckerman. I think he's right. I will only offer the following simple statements - it is an entirely different world than after any of the last several recessions. Jobs ain't coming back, Conk or Donk. Never coming back. We're overpopulated and the third world countires of the past or now our superiors. It is over for the United States.

:coffee:
User avatar
Wedgebuster
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 12260
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:06 pm
I am a fan of: UNC BEARS
A.K.A.: OB55
Location: Where The Rivers Run North

Re: Jobs Situation Worse Than It Looks

Post by Wedgebuster »

Cap'n Cat wrote:T,
I have a lot of respect for you and for Mort Zuckerman. I think he's right. I will only offer the following simple statements - it is an entirely different world than after any of the last several recessions. Jobs ain't coming back, Conk or Donk. Never coming back. We're overpopulated and the third world countires of the past or now our superiors. It is over for the United States.

:coffee:
Sadly, we have also gotten our asses kicked by all the LBPs of the world who have out worked as well as outproduced our American workers. Manufacturing, etc is gone from here for good. We are paper pushers now, and those who are out of work and have been for two or more years are barking up the wrong tree. Re-education, individual entrepreneurial ventures, and adapting to change is the only option.

"Jobs" are for dependents, get out there and create something worthwhile, or sit around and pine for the good old days when American employers forked out middle class incomes with all the trimmings to unskilled, uneducated, and let's face it, lazy American workers. Whatever, but these days are gone.
Image
User avatar
GannonFan
Level5
Level5
Posts: 19233
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:51 am
I am a fan of: Delaware
A.K.A.: Non-Partisan Hack

Re: Jobs Situation Worse Than It Looks

Post by GannonFan »

Cap'n Cat wrote:T,
I have a lot of respect for you and for Mort Zuckerman. I think he's right. I will only offer the following simple statements - it is an entirely different world than after any of the last several recessions. Jobs ain't coming back, Conk or Donk. Never coming back. We're overpopulated and the third world countires of the past or now our superiors. It is over for the United States.

:coffee:
Disagree with that, although third world countries rising above being what they were isn't in doubt. Heck, that's what people predicted free trade systems would do.

But I disagree mainly with the overpopulated part. If that was true, the secret to being more successful as a country would be to cut population (not suggesting it could be done, just talking about it). But what would having 20M less people accomplish? Rather, one of the things we could do is to increase the population, but to do so intelligently. The caps we have on legal immigration into this country are absurdly too restrictive, and as a result, we turn away tens, if not hundreds of thousands of highly educated, highly motivated people who would be a real asset to the country. You want people who are smart and who have ideas and the motivation to see those ideas through. Heck, immigration has always been one of the strengths for America since the get go. But the legal immigration, and immigration of the smart people in particular, has been lost in the debate over illegal immigration and we've resorted to our nativist tendencies - i.e. we have too many people. It's a shame the nativist are winning the debate and choking off good immigration.
Proud Member of the Blue Hen Nation
User avatar
travelinman67
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 9884
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:51 pm
I am a fan of: Portland State Vikings
A.K.A.: Modern Man
Location: Where the 1st Amendment still exists: CS.com

Re: Jobs Situation Worse Than It Looks

Post by travelinman67 »

Cap'n Cat wrote:T,
I have a lot of respect for you and for Mort Zuckerman. I think he's right... It is over for the United States.

:coffee:
I was thinkin' the same about UNI.

:coffee:
"That is how government works - we tell you what you can do today."
- EPA Kommissar Gina McCarthy
User avatar
GannonFan
Level5
Level5
Posts: 19233
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:51 am
I am a fan of: Delaware
A.K.A.: Non-Partisan Hack

Re: Jobs Situation Worse Than It Looks

Post by GannonFan »

Wedgebuster wrote:
Cap'n Cat wrote:T,
I have a lot of respect for you and for Mort Zuckerman. I think he's right. I will only offer the following simple statements - it is an entirely different world than after any of the last several recessions. Jobs ain't coming back, Conk or Donk. Never coming back. We're overpopulated and the third world countires of the past or now our superiors. It is over for the United States.

:coffee:
Sadly, we have also gotten our asses kicked by all the LBPs of the world who have out worked as well as outproduced our American workers. Manufacturing, etc is gone from here for good. We are paper pushers now, and those who are out of work and have been for two or more years are barking up the wrong tree. Re-education, individual entrepreneurial ventures, and adapting to change is the only option.

"Jobs" are for dependents, get out there and create something worthwhile, or sit around and pine for the good old days when American employers forked out middle class incomes with all the trimmings to unskilled, uneducated, and let's face it, lazy American workers. Whatever, but these days are gone.
You know, being in manufacturing in America for all of my career (up to and including right now), I can safely say that it's not gone away, especially not for good. What has gone away are cushy, lifetime and even generational, simple manufacturing and the jobs that went along with that. We're not going to be the country that makes the little umbrellas that get put into fruity alcoholic drinks. And that's not a bad thing, per se. When China does pass us as the world's largest manufacturing country (and they may not even do it this year, although it's been predicted to happen every year since 2008) it's not like we're going to close everything down and stop producing. Considering China has 4x the population and such a low wage rate, it's inconceivable that the US would ever be able to stay ahead of China in terms of simple mfg output. But if we do like Germany has done to a large extent, and focus on making the things that are high in value (i.e. high in demand), and are difficult for others to make, then we will be fine. It's all about innovation, adapting, and evolving. It won't ever mean that we have simple assembly lines that employ tens of thousands of low skilled workers - China will always be able to do that at a lower cost - but it means that we need to make the things that we invent and innovate that others can't make. It's a tough world out there, moaning about it isn't going to make it any easier.
Proud Member of the Blue Hen Nation
User avatar
travelinman67
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 9884
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:51 pm
I am a fan of: Portland State Vikings
A.K.A.: Modern Man
Location: Where the 1st Amendment still exists: CS.com

Re: Jobs Situation Worse Than It Looks

Post by travelinman67 »

Wedgebuster wrote:
Cap'n Cat wrote:T,
I have a lot of respect for you and for Mort Zuckerman. I think he's right. I will only offer the following simple statements - it is an entirely different world than after any of the last several recessions. Jobs ain't coming back, Conk or Donk. Never coming back. We're overpopulated and the third world countires of the past or now our superiors. It is over for the United States.

:coffee:
Sadly, we have also gotten our asses kicked by all the LBPs of the world who have out worked as well as outproduced our American workers. Manufacturing, etc is gone from here for good. We are paper pushers now, and those who are out of work and have been for two or more years are barking up the wrong tree.
Sorry Wedgie...that's just ideologic rhetorical bullshit. American worker productivity and efficiency has always been near the top of global workers. The reason why manufacturing has left is worker cost. PERIOD. We need LESS paper pushing, not more. The manual laborer's consumerism, fed by their higher wages, has fueled a growth in durable-good-free (GDP) industry, seeking to soak up the laborer's wealth.
Entertainment(cable, movies, sports), social organizations (gyms, clubs), faux insurers (auto maint., travel, flood, earthquake - who never pay off), home improvements (marketing high-end foreign made products directly to end-user), and on and on...have exponentially grown, draining worker disposable income.
Sitting around creating iPhone apps isn't the solution. Moving back to an agrarian/industrial economy is the ONLY way to reverse our economic slide.
"That is how government works - we tell you what you can do today."
- EPA Kommissar Gina McCarthy
Ivytalk
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 26827
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:22 pm
I am a fan of: Salisbury University
Location: Republic of Western Sussex

Re: Jobs Situation Worse Than It Looks

Post by Ivytalk »

Shit. Pass the Celexa. :shake: :crybaby:
“I’m tired and done.” — 89Hen 3/27/22.
User avatar
Wedgebuster
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 12260
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:06 pm
I am a fan of: UNC BEARS
A.K.A.: OB55
Location: Where The Rivers Run North

Re: Jobs Situation Worse Than It Looks

Post by Wedgebuster »

Hey T-man J, how the heck we going to move back into an agrarian/industrial economy and compete with Central America??

Bow out of the free trade agreements?
Image
User avatar
Grizalltheway
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 35688
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:01 pm
A.K.A.: DJ Honey BBQ
Location: BSC

Re: Jobs Situation Worse Than It Looks

Post by Grizalltheway »

Wedgebuster wrote:Hey T-man J, how the heck we going to move back into an agrarian/industrial economy and compete with Central America??

Bow out of the free trade agreements?
What GF said. Produce high-value, high-tech, capital goods that Central American and developing countries can't. Comparative advantage. :nod:
User avatar
Wedgebuster
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 12260
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:06 pm
I am a fan of: UNC BEARS
A.K.A.: OB55
Location: Where The Rivers Run North

Re: Jobs Situation Worse Than It Looks

Post by Wedgebuster »

Grizalltheway wrote:
Wedgebuster wrote:Hey T-man J, how the heck we going to move back into an agrarian/industrial economy and compete with Central America??

Bow out of the free trade agreements?
What GF said. Produce high-value, high-tech, capital goods that Central American and developing countries can't. Comparative advantage. :nod:
Ahhh, like weapons, I see where you are going here. :nod:
Image
User avatar
CitadelGrad
Level4
Level4
Posts: 5210
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:19 pm
I am a fan of: Jack Kerouac
A.K.A.: El Cid
Location: St. Louis

Re: Jobs Situation Worse Than It Looks

Post by CitadelGrad »

Zuckerman is a liar. Obama's stimulus bill kept the unemployment rate below 8% and grew the economy by more than 3%.

Thank you, President Obama.
Image
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

- Thomas Jefferson, in letter to William S. Smith, 1787

Image
User avatar
travelinman67
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 9884
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:51 pm
I am a fan of: Portland State Vikings
A.K.A.: Modern Man
Location: Where the 1st Amendment still exists: CS.com

Re: Jobs Situation Worse Than It Looks

Post by travelinman67 »

CitadelGrad wrote:Zuckerman is a liar. Obama's stimulus bill kept the unemployment rate below 8% and grew the economy by more than 3%.

Thank you, President Obama.
Image
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Stop that!
"That is how government works - we tell you what you can do today."
- EPA Kommissar Gina McCarthy
User avatar
D1B
Chris's Bitch
Chris's Bitch
Posts: 18397
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:34 am
I am a fan of: Morehead State

Re: Jobs Situation Worse Than It Looks

Post by D1B »

travelinman67 wrote:
CitadelGrad wrote:Zuckerman is a liar. Obama's stimulus bill kept the unemployment rate below 8% and grew the economy by more than 3%.

Thank you, President Obama.
Image
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Stop that!
TDog,

Sounds like you're having problems getting a job. Email me your resume and I'll help you spruce it up. You'll be employed in no time!

Image

"Finally working! God bless D1B!"
"Sarah Palin absolutely blew AWAY the audience tonight. If there was any doubt as to whether she was savvy enough, tough enough or smart enough to carry the mantle of Vice President, she put those fears to rest tonight. She took on Barack Obama DIRECTLY on every issue and exposed... She did it with warmth and humor, and came across as the every-person....it's becoming mroe and more clear that she was a genius pick for McCain."

AZGrizfan - Summer 2008
User avatar
Cap'n Cat
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 13614
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:38 am
I am a fan of: Mostly myself.
A.K.A.: LabiaInTheSunlight

Re: Jobs Situation Worse Than It Looks

Post by Cap'n Cat »

At least all you mothafvckas is white.


Image
Post Reply