CS Political/History Book Club...Whatcha Readin'?

[Cap'n Cat]

Recently finished A Traveller's History of Canada, by Robert Bothwell and Dennis Judd. Rather a bullet point review of Canada from prehistory to modern times. Cap'n Cat says 2.5 out of 4 stars. Good for ignorant Americans (Conks) who really aren't that interested in anything outside our borders, but I was looking for more detail.


Halfway through Triumphs & Tragedy: A History of the Mexican People, by Ramon Eduardo Ruiz, a professor at Cal State - San Diego.

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Very good, deep history of all that has happened to the Mexican people and their ancestors from Mayan and Aztec times to 1993. Emphasis thus far is on the tragedy that is the Mexican experience. Right now, reading about how America took advantage of a very poor and disorganized state, went to, ahem, "war", and stole millions of square miles of land from them. Conks would get major wood if they were reading the stories about fvcks like Polk and Houston and Travis and Stephen F. Austin and their ilk. No surprise that the Catholic Church plays of pivotal role in keeping the people down, too.

At the book's midpoint, Cap'n Cat gives it a 3.7 out of 4 stars.

[Vidav]

Excellent book if you want to increase your hatred of Mormons.

[Cap'n Cat]

Excellent book if you want to increase your hatred of Mormons.

Just bought it.

[Ivytalk]

Reading Walter Isaacson's bio of Benjamin Franklin.

What ol' Ben thought of Mexicans is unclear.

[citdog]

[Ivytalk]

Self-published?

[SuperHornet]

[Cap'n Cat]

Found the Cliff Notes on this book:

"Union kicked South's ass, century and a half of Northern dominance followed."

[Cap'n Cat]

Red X, dumbass.

[Skjellyfetti]

Halfway through Triumphs & Tragedy: A History of the Mexican People, by Ramon Eduardo Ruiz, a professor at Cal State - San Diego.

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Very good, deep history of all that has happened to the Mexican people and their ancestors from Mayan and Aztec times to 1993. Emphasis thus far is on the tragedy that is the Mexican experience. Right now, reading about how America took advantage of a very poor and disorganized state, went to, ahem, "war", and stole millions of square miles of land from them. Conks would get major wood if they were reading the stories about fvcks like Polk and Houston and Travis and Stephen F. Austin and their ilk. No surprise that the Catholic Church plays of pivotal role in keeping the people down, too.

At the book's midpoint, Cap'n Cat gives it a 3.7 out of 4 stars.

Looks like an interesting read. Just added it to my queue. An amazing country and an amazing people.

[Cap'n Cat]

You'll spit forever more when you hear the phrase, "Manifest Destiny".

[SuperHornet]

Red X, dumbass.

I already changed the link, dumba$$.

[Vidav]

Yeah a$$

[Cap'n Cat]

Red X, dumbass.

I already changed the link, dumba$$.

Nice retort, Mort.

[Bronco]

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Reckless Endangerment: How Outsized Ambition, Greed, and Corruption Led to Economic Armageddon. By Gretchen Morgenson, one of America’s best business journalists who is currently at The New York Times, and noted financial analyst Joshua Rosner.

Reckless Endangerment gives the best available account of how the growing chaos in the mortgage and personal finance markets and the rampant bundling of dubious loans into exotically toxic securities plunged the world, and millions of American families, into the gravest financial crisis since World War Two.

It is gripping reading as well, and its explanations are clear enough that readers without any background in finance will have no trouble following the plot. The villains? An unholy alliance between Wall Street, the Democratic establishment, community organizing groups like ACORN and La Raza, and politicians like Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi and Henry Cisneros.

Frank got a cushy job for a lover, Pelosi got a job and layoff protection for a son, Cisneros apparently got a license to mint money bilking Mexican-Americans of their life savings in cheesy housing developments.

(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...

[Cap'n Cat]

---




Reckless Endangerment: How Outsized Ambition, Greed, and Corruption Led to Economic Armageddon. By Gretchen Morgenson, one of America’s best business journalists who is currently at The New York Times, and noted financial analyst Joshua Rosner.

Reckless Endangerment gives the best available account of how the growing chaos in the mortgage and personal finance markets and the rampant bundling of dubious loans into exotically toxic securities plunged the world, and millions of American families, into the gravest financial crisis since World War Two.

It is gripping reading as well, and its explanations are clear enough that readers without any background in finance will have no trouble following the plot. The villains? An unholy alliance between Wall Street, the Democratic establishment, community organizing groups like ACORN and La Raza, and politicians like Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi and Henry Cisneros.

Frank got a cushy job for a lover, Pelosi got a job and layoff protection for a son, Cisneros apparently got a license to mint money bilking Mexican-Americans of their life savings in cheesy housing developments.

(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...

Funny, I heard this advertised on Rush Limbaugh last week! What a fvcking lemming.................

[JoltinJoe]

No surprise that the Catholic Church plays of pivotal role in keeping the people down, too.

At the book's midpoint, Cap'n Cat gives it a 3.7 out of 4 stars.

I wonder if that's how this book actually depicts the role of the Catholic Church in Mexico, or whether that is just you reading what the author says through your Cap 'n Cat colored glasses. Even at its earliest institution in Mexico, the leaders of the Catholic Church consistently defended the native population against violence and repressive excesses of the Spanish secular authorities. No doubt, some Catholic missionaries traveling with the Spanish invaders involved in the conquests of the native populations engaged in acts of forced conversion, but many others opposed the enslavement of the native populations and reported acts of repression to their superiors in Europe. Indeed the reason why we know with a fair amount of detail about these wrongful acts of repression and enslavement is because of the accounts reported by Catholic clergy.

And let's not overlook the brutal repression of the Catholic Church in Mexico after the Mexican Revolution. The Church would have ceased to exist in Mexico but for the overwhelming support of the Mexican people who remained loyal to the Church and opposed their "humanistic" government. You should read Graham Greene's "The Power and the Glory," an excellent novel dealing with the treatment of the Catholic clergy in Mexico in the years after the Mexican Revolution.

What follows is a balanced account of the role of the Catholic Church in Mexico, which records both the acts of Catholic collaborators who forced conversion on the natives; and of the Catholic leaders who took gallant stands against the enslavement and ill-treatment of the native populations.

http://www.mexconnect.com/articles/668- ... nd-traumas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Skjellyfetti]

I wonder if that's how this book actually depicts the role of the Catholic Church in Mexico, or whether that is just you reading what the author says through your Cap 'n Cat colored glasses. Even at its earliest institution in Mexico, the leaders of the Catholic Church consistently defended the native population against violence and repressive excesses of the Spanish secular authorities. No doubt, some Catholic missionaries traveling with the Spanish invaders involved in the conquests of the native populations engaged in acts of forced conversion, but many others opposed the enslavement of the native populations and reported acts of repression to their superiors in Europe. Indeed the reason why we know with a fair amount of detail about these wrongful acts of repression and enslavement is because of the accounts reported by Catholic clergy.

Catholics like Bartolome de las Casas and Antonio de Montesinos certainly have my praise. Bartolome de las Casas is still revered by the indigenous cultures in Mexico.

But, you make it sound like they were the norm... and the Catholics oppressing the indiginous were the exception. It's the opposite... there were very, very few Catholics in the New World defending the rights of the indigenous. You make it sound like forced conversion was rare... and most Catholics in Mexico were against the practice... The Catholics who spoke out against it were rare... which is why Bartolome de las Casas is so well known and beloved. If most Catholics in the New World were of the same opinion and said the same things... he wouldn't be noteworthy.

And, you are right about the persecution of Catholics after the revolution... but, why whitewash cruel treatment of natives?

[Grizalltheway]

[Cap'n Cat]

No surprise that the Catholic Church plays of pivotal role in keeping the people down, too.

At the book's midpoint, Cap'n Cat gives it a 3.7 out of 4 stars.

I wonder if that's how this book actually depicts the role of the Catholic Church in Mexico, or whether that is just you reading what the author says through your Cap 'n Cat colored glasses. Even at its earliest institution in Mexico, the leaders of the Catholic Church consistently defended the native population against violence and repressive excesses of the Spanish secular authorities. No doubt, some Catholic missionaries traveling with the Spanish invaders involved in the conquests of the native populations engaged in acts of forced conversion, but many others opposed the enslavement of the native populations and reported acts of repression to their superiors in Europe. Indeed the reason why we know with a fair amount of detail about these wrongful acts of repression and enslavement is because of the accounts reported by Catholic clergy.

And let's not overlook the brutal repression of the Catholic Church in Mexico after the Mexican Revolution. The Church would have ceased to exist in Mexico but for the overwhelming support of the Mexican people who remained loyal to the Church and opposed their "humanistic" government. You should read Graham Greene's "The Power and the Glory," an excellent novel dealing with the treatment of the Catholic clergy in Mexico in the years after the Mexican Revolution.

What follows is a balanced account of the role of the Catholic Church in Mexico, which records both the acts of Catholic collaborators who forced conversion on the natives; and of the Catholic leaders who took gallant stands against the enslavement and ill-treatment of the native populations.

http://www.mexconnect.com/articles/668- ... nd-traumas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Catholic Church in Mexico was and is a net negative for the Mexican population. They demanded tithes and tribute, clergy was unruly, rapacious and money-grubbing and sold the sacraments for cash. They had the support of the Crown (Catholic apologists like you) and piled up stacks of cash for centuries, little of which went to the poor and most of which went to mortgage hacendados who abused Indians and mestizos alike, treating them as nothing more than slaves. The Church owned MASSIVE amounts of property and never thought to distribute it to the poor. The bishops and archbishops of the Church of New Spain (as it was referred to for years) hobnobbed with society's wealthy military and political elite, preserving a monetary circle jerk that most definitely did not benefit the people whom the Church claimed were "God's people".

In short, fvck you, you pompous Papal apologist, rationalizing, excuse-making fvck.

[JoltinJoe]

I wonder if that's how this book actually depicts the role of the Catholic Church in Mexico, or whether that is just you reading what the author says through your Cap 'n Cat colored glasses. Even at its earliest institution in Mexico, the leaders of the Catholic Church consistently defended the native population against violence and repressive excesses of the Spanish secular authorities. No doubt, some Catholic missionaries traveling with the Spanish invaders involved in the conquests of the native populations engaged in acts of forced conversion, but many others opposed the enslavement of the native populations and reported acts of repression to their superiors in Europe. Indeed the reason why we know with a fair amount of detail about these wrongful acts of repression and enslavement is because of the accounts reported by Catholic clergy.

Catholics like Bartolome de las Casas and Antonio de Montesinos certainly have my praise. Bartolome de las Casas is still revered by the indigenous cultures in Mexico.

But, you make it sound like they were the norm... and the Catholics oppressing the indiginous were the exception. It's the opposite... there were very, very few Catholics in the New World defending the rights of the indigenous. You make it sound like forced conversion was rare... and most Catholics in Mexico were against the practice... The Catholics who spoke out against it were rare... which is why Bartolome de las Casas is so well known and beloved. If most Catholics in the New World were of the same opinion and said the same things... he wouldn't be noteworthy.

And, you are right about the persecution of Catholics after the revolution... but, why whitewash cruel treatment of natives?

Geez, is that how you read what I said?

Your problem is you equate the Conquistadors with Catholics and use the terms as if they are synonymous.

Now it may well be that most of the Conquistadors were Catholics, but in my post I was talking about the Catholic clergy (the actual representatives of the church). Some collaborated in forced conversions, some did not. And the Catholic leadership (the bishops) was swift to seek to protect the native populations.

When the Conquistadors came to Mexico, they were intent on imposing their entire culture on the native population, only one aspect of which was Christianity. It was the Conquistadors which imposed forced conversions and enslaved native populations, and in this regard they had the support of some but certainly not all the Catholic missionaries who traveled with them. However, to say that the Catholic Church itself forced the conversion of the native populations is a misrepresentation of what happened.

[JoltinJoe]

I wonder if that's how this book actually depicts the role of the Catholic Church in Mexico, or whether that is just you reading what the author says through your Cap 'n Cat colored glasses. Even at its earliest institution in Mexico, the leaders of the Catholic Church consistently defended the native population against violence and repressive excesses of the Spanish secular authorities. No doubt, some Catholic missionaries traveling with the Spanish invaders involved in the conquests of the native populations engaged in acts of forced conversion, but many others opposed the enslavement of the native populations and reported acts of repression to their superiors in Europe. Indeed the reason why we know with a fair amount of detail about these wrongful acts of repression and enslavement is because of the accounts reported by Catholic clergy.

And let's not overlook the brutal repression of the Catholic Church in Mexico after the Mexican Revolution. The Church would have ceased to exist in Mexico but for the overwhelming support of the Mexican people who remained loyal to the Church and opposed their "humanistic" government. You should read Graham Greene's "The Power and the Glory," an excellent novel dealing with the treatment of the Catholic clergy in Mexico in the years after the Mexican Revolution.

What follows is a balanced account of the role of the Catholic Church in Mexico, which records both the acts of Catholic collaborators who forced conversion on the natives; and of the Catholic leaders who took gallant stands against the enslavement and ill-treatment of the native populations.

http://www.mexconnect.com/articles/668- ... nd-traumas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Catholic Church in Mexico was and is a net negative for the Mexican population. They demanded tithes and tribute, clergy was unruly, rapacious and money-grubbing and sold the sacraments for cash. They had the support of the Crown (Catholic apologists like you) and piled up stacks of cash for centuries, little of which went to the poor and most of which went to mortgage hacendados who abused Indians and mestizos alike, treating them as nothing more than slaves. The Church owned MASSIVE amounts of property and never thought to distribute it to the poor. The bishops and archbishops of the Church of New Spain (as it was referred to for years) hobnobbed with society's wealthy military and political elite, preserving a monetary circle jerk that most definitely did not benefit the people whom the Church claimed were "God's people".

In short, fvck you, you pompous Papal apologist, rationalizing, excuse-making fvck.

I again refer you to my link for a balanced account of what happened.

To say that the Catholic Church has been a net negative in Mexico belies the incredibly broad support it has among Mexicans, over 90% of whom identify themselves as Catholic. It ignores the role the Church has had in Mexico in bravely defending individual rights against a series of repressive governments.

And it is typical left-wing condescending crap -- as if the vast majority of Mexicans who have remained loyal and defended the Church against a series of oppression by "humanistic" governments are rubes incapable of understanding how they are being exploited, and they need the "educated" pompous-assed American left-wing to explain it to them.

[Cap'n Cat]

Apologizing for the Church at every turn.

[bulldog10jw]

Let me guess....you have a thing for boobs........























based on your literary choices.................Seems you like women with big breasts, too

[JoltinJoe]

Apologizing for the Church at every turn.

Why don't you defend your "analysis"?