Did Panetta, Gates and Clinton stage a coup d'etat?

[CitadelGrad]

Obama was golfing. He was called in from the golf course when the operation started to go down. That has been widely reported by "acceptable" media sources.

No. He came back from his golf game hours before the operation started.

No. It was one hour and twenty-six minutes before the SEALS reached the bin Laden's compound. That means that when they lifted off in Afghanistan, Obama wasn't even at the White House. I don't know about you, but the last thing on my mind on a day like that would have been golf. Even if I wanted to play golf, I sure as hell would have had my ass planted in the situation room as the assault group departed the base in Afghanistan.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

No. He came back from his golf game hours before the operation started.

No. It was one hour and twenty-six minutes before the SEALS reached the bin Laden's compound. That means that when they lifted off in Afghanistan, Obama wasn't even at the White House. I don't know about you, but the last thing on my mind on a day like that would have been golf. Even if I wanted to play golf, I sure as hell would have had my ass planted in the situation room as the assault group departed the base in Afghanistan.

you've never done something like this? really?

I go and get a haircut on election day every year - once you've made your decision, there's nothing more you can do but wait for the results. that's a lonely time - a time when you need something to do to keep your mind occupied while you wait. I know for me what E-day was like... and that's 1/1,000,000th of what this was.

more than that - i would offer this, he golfs most sunday afternoons - much like the correspondents dinner the night before - making sure, up until the last moment, that things looked "normal" seems like a good idea for the purposes of Op. Sec. (and yes, that's a bit of a stretch, and it's likely much more the former than the latter)

[Skjellyfetti]

What base did they fly from? I bet a Blackhawk could have made it from the base to Abbottabad in an hour and a half. How do you know he wasn't there when the helicopters first took off?

[Skjellyfetti]

Also, forget about that. I still want to hear the evidence of the coup d'etat by Panetta, Gates and Clinton.

[CitadelGrad]

No. It was one hour and twenty-six minutes before the SEALS reached the bin Laden's compound. That means that when they lifted off in Afghanistan, Obama wasn't even at the White House. I don't know about you, but the last thing on my mind on a day like that would have been golf. Even if I wanted to play golf, I sure as hell would have had my ass planted in the situation room as the assault group departed the base in Afghanistan.

you've never done something like this? really?

I go and get a haircut on election day every year - once you've made your decision, there's nothing more you can do but wait for the results. that's a lonely time - a time when you need something to do to keep your mind occupied while you wait. I know for me what E-day was like... and that's 1/1,000,000th of what this was.

more than that - i would offer this, he golfs most sunday afternoons - much like the correspondents dinner the night before - making sure, up until the last moment, that things looked "normal" seems like a good idea for the purposes of Op. Sec. (and yes, that's a bit of a stretch, and it's likely much more the former than the latter)

You're comparing getting a haircut on election day to playing golf on Osama assassination day? Do you understand how many things can go wrong in a complex operation like this? Do you understand how many decisions have to be made during preparation and execution of an operation like this? If you're in command, then command. If you aren't, then get the hell out of the way. Apparently, the Commander in Chief decided to get the hell out of the way. That was probably for the best anyway, so I really shouldn't be complaining.

[Bronco]

I posted both yesterday.

Panetta seems like the man behind the mouse in the white house
--

Panetta: Obama Couldn't Watch Bin Laden's Death but Heard 'Geronimo' Signal(video)
PBS ^ | May 3, 2011

In a newsmaker interview with Jim Lehrer on Tuesday, CIA Director Leon Panetta describes the final tense seconds of the commando raid on the compound housing Osama bin Laden in Pakistan.

[Skjellyfetti]

You're comparing getting a haircut on election day to playing golf on Osama assassination day? Do you understand how many things can go wrong in a complex operation like this? Do you understand how many decisions have to be made during preparation and execution of an operation like this? If you're in command, then command. If you aren't, then get the hell out of the way. Apparently, the Commander in Chief decided to get the hell out of the way. That was probably for the best anyway, so I really shouldn't be complaining.

The plan was in place for months. It wasn't like anyone was sitting there giving the SEALS a play-by-play of what to do. "Next, you're going to need to make a right into the hallway." They knew what they were doing. They had been practicing it for months. The last thing they needed was Obama or anyone else telling them to lock the door and turn out the lights on the way out.

[CitadelGrad]

What base did they fly from? I bet a Blackhawk could have made it from the base to Abbottabad in an hour and a half. How do you know he wasn't there when the helicopters first took off?

Because I know what base they flew from. My step-brother's son is stationed there. It took well over an hour and a half.

[CitadelGrad]

You're comparing getting a haircut on election day to playing golf on Osama assassination day? Do you understand how many things can go wrong in a complex operation like this? Do you understand how many decisions have to be made during preparation and execution of an operation like this? If you're in command, then command. If you aren't, then get the hell out of the way. Apparently, the Commander in Chief decided to get the hell out of the way. That was probably for the best anyway, so I really shouldn't be complaining.

The plan was in place for months. It wasn't like anyone was sitting there giving the SEALS a play-by-play of what to do. "Next, you're going to need to make a right into the hallway." They knew what they were doing. They had been practicing it for months. The last thing they needed was Obama or anyone else telling them to lock the door and turn out the lights on the way out.

You're really out of your league here. Aside from getting the facts wrong, you don't understand anything about military operations. If I were you, I'd just shut up at this point.

[Skjellyfetti]

Because I know what base they flew from.

which base?

[Skjellyfetti]

You're really out of your league here. Aside from getting the facts wrong, you don't understand anything about military operations. If I were you, I'd just shut up at this point.

You're the one tossing conspiracy theories out there with no basis.

So, had the plan NOT been in place for months? Had the SEALS not been practicing the plan for months?... counter to all reports?

[CitadelGrad]

Because I know what base they flew from.

which base?

A JSOC base that as far as I know is classified.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

you've never done something like this? really?

I go and get a haircut on election day every year - once you've made your decision, there's nothing more you can do but wait for the results. that's a lonely time - a time when you need something to do to keep your mind occupied while you wait. I know for me what E-day was like... and that's 1/1,000,000th of what this was.

more than that - i would offer this, he golfs most sunday afternoons - much like the correspondents dinner the night before - making sure, up until the last moment, that things looked "normal" seems like a good idea for the purposes of Op. Sec. (and yes, that's a bit of a stretch, and it's likely much more the former than the latter)

You're comparing getting a haircut on election day to playing golf on Osama assassination day? Do you understand how many things can go wrong in a complex operation like this? Do you understand how many decisions have to be made during preparation and execution of an operation like this? If you're in command, then command. If you aren't, then get the hell out of the way. Apparently, the Commander in Chief decided to get the hell out of the way. That was probably for the best anyway, so I really shouldn't be complaining.

note where i said it's 1/1,000,000th... i recognize it's orders of magnitude.

however, there are times as a leader where you make a decision, give the orders, and let qualified people you trust do their jobs. there really wasn't much more he could do personally. that's how it goes... it's also a very frustrating position to find yourself in. but micromanaging this, especially with good, trained boots on the ground would have been foolish.

[CitadelGrad]

You're really out of your league here. Aside from getting the facts wrong, you don't understand anything about military operations. If I were you, I'd just shut up at this point.

You're the one tossing conspiracy theories out there with no basis.

So, had the plan NOT been in place for months? Had the SEALS not been practicing the plan for months?... counter to all reports?

In case you haven't noticed, most of the reports about this operation haven't been trustworthy. There were only two assault rehearsals and they occurred over a period of days, not months.

[Grizalltheway]

which base?

A JSOC base that as far as I know is classified.

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember a news report mentioning from which base in Afghanistan they departed.

[CitadelGrad]

You're comparing getting a haircut on election day to playing golf on Osama assassination day? Do you understand how many things can go wrong in a complex operation like this? Do you understand how many decisions have to be made during preparation and execution of an operation like this? If you're in command, then command. If you aren't, then get the hell out of the way. Apparently, the Commander in Chief decided to get the hell out of the way. That was probably for the best anyway, so I really shouldn't be complaining.

note where i said it's 1/1,000,000th... i recognize it's orders of magnitude.

however, there are times as a leader where you make a decision, give the orders, and let qualified people you trust do their jobs. there really wasn't much more he could do personally. that's how it goes... it's also a very frustrating position to find yourself in. but micromanaging this, especially with good, trained boots on the ground would have been foolish.

I'm not talking about micromanaging. I'm talking about the infinite number of unexpected events that can occur with no notice. Suppose there had been an intelligence breach? ISI and the Taliban do conduct intelligence operations on and around American bases in Afghanistan. Suppose there had been a communications failure at some point? Suppose there had been a mechanical failure like in Desert One? Suppose a Pakistani military unit had been detected moving into or through the target area? Suppose the helicopters had been detected by Pakistani air defense radar? Suppose a significant movement had been detected in or out of OBL's compound? These things can happen quickly and decisions have to be made quickly. That isn't micromanagement. That's having your head out of your ass and in the game.

[CitadelGrad]

A JSOC base that as far as I know is classified.

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember a news report mentioning from which base in Afghanistan they departed.

A lot of things have been reported that we now know to be incorrect.

[Skjellyfetti]

A JSOC base that as far as I know is classified.

Should your step-brother's son be talking about it with relatives? I guess you know the location since you know the flight time from there to Bin Laden's compound?

Because I know what base they flew from. My step-brother's son is stationed there.

[CitadelGrad]

A JSOC base that as far as I know is classified.

Should your step-brother's son be talking about it with relatives?

Because I know what base they flew from. My step-brother's son is stationed there.

No, but that's on him, not me.

[houndawg]

note where i said it's 1/1,000,000th... i recognize it's orders of magnitude.

however, there are times as a leader where you make a decision, give the orders, and let qualified people you trust do their jobs. there really wasn't much more he could do personally. that's how it goes... it's also a very frustrating position to find yourself in. but micromanaging this, especially with good, trained boots on the ground would have been foolish.

I'm not talking about micromanaging. I'm talking about the infinite number of unexpected events that can occur with no notice. Suppose there had been an intelligence breach? ISI and the Taliban do conduct intelligence operations on and around American bases in Afghanistan. Suppose there had been a communications failure at some point? Suppose there had been a mechanical failure like in Desert One? Suppose a Pakistani military unit had been detected moving into or through the target area? Suppose the helicopters had been detected by Pakistani air defense radar? Suppose a significant movement had been detected in or out of OBL's compound? These things can happen quickly and decisions have to be made quickly. That isn't micromanagement. That's having your head out of your ass and in the game.

Awwww, where is the love? You'd think that this was another Tora Bora listening to our military experts on this forum.

Btw, there was a mechanical failure; the CinC was on top of things and everybody can see it but those of your ilk blinded by your hatred of the President.

Very telling how our honk friends would rather see Obama fail than the mission succeed. That's OK, the rest of us are Americans first, CG; you and your hater friends just go find somewhere to sit and hate while the President cleans up after your boy. SMFH

[houndawg]

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember a news report mentioning from which base in Afghanistan they departed.

A lot of things have been reported that we now know to be incorrect.

But not the President's golf game.

[CitadelGrad]

I'm not talking about micromanaging. I'm talking about the infinite number of unexpected events that can occur with no notice. Suppose there had been an intelligence breach? ISI and the Taliban do conduct intelligence operations on and around American bases in Afghanistan. Suppose there had been a communications failure at some point? Suppose there had been a mechanical failure like in Desert One? Suppose a Pakistani military unit had been detected moving into or through the target area? Suppose the helicopters had been detected by Pakistani air defense radar? Suppose a significant movement had been detected in or out of OBL's compound? These things can happen quickly and decisions have to be made quickly. That isn't micromanagement. That's having your head out of your ass and in the game.

Awwww, where is the love? You'd think that this was another Tora Bora listening to our military experts on this forum.

Btw, there was a mechanical failure; the CinC was on top of things and everybody can see it but those of your ilk blinded by your hatred of the President.

Very telling how our honk friends would rather see Obama fail than the mission succeed. That's OK, the rest of us are Americans first, CG; you and your hater friends just go find somewhere to sit and hate while the President cleans up after your boy. SMFH

It wasn't a mechanical failure. The helicopter tried to set down in a small area with high walls and couldn't find enough air in the confined space to generate enough lift. That's why it had a hard landing and couldn't take off.

How do you know Obama was on top of things? What did he do when the chopper came down hard and couldn't take off?

[travelinman67]

Jellydonut, TTBF, Hempdawg and Grazzle arguing operational debrief with CitGrad...



Sorry boys, Cit has forgotten more about ops than you'll ever know or understand.

I've read the same "Panetta" account from three separate sources.

Think about this, boys:

What happened to ol' Jimmy when the hostage rescue mission failed?

The ENTIRE blame was placed on his shoulders for green-lighting the mission.

Same goes here. Obama is no fool. Based upon miscellaneous sources, it sounds as though O gave operational authority to JSOC, with Panetta at the head. Basically, O became the press secretary for this op. Worked out good for him...he becomes the mouthpiece in the event of success, or easily throws JSOC under the wheels if the mission failed.

And this isn't just an ideological condemnation of "O-the-evil-one"...

...this is simply textbook deniability. All poli's do it...even (especially) Reagan and Clinton.

[CitadelGrad]

A lot of things have been reported that we now know to be incorrect.

But not the President's golf game.

Yep.

[houndawg]

Awwww, where is the love? You'd think that this was another Tora Bora listening to our military experts on this forum.

Btw, there was a mechanical failure; the CinC was on top of things and everybody can see it but those of your ilk blinded by your hatred of the President.

Very telling how our honk friends would rather see Obama fail than the mission succeed. That's OK, the rest of us are Americans first, CG; you and your hater friends just go find somewhere to sit and hate while the President cleans up after your boy. SMFH

It wasn't a mechanical failure. The helicopter tried to set down in a small area with high walls and couldn't find enough air in the confined space to generate enough lift. That's why it had a hard landing and couldn't take off.

How do you know Obama was on top of things? What did he do when the chopper came down hard and couldn't take off?

The mission was a success, CG, ergo the CinC was on top of things.