Best All Time FCS QB

[DJH]

btw, sorry for the OT.

I do not believe Sanders is a top 5, but he is certainly a top 10 all time QB, probably just a bit outside the top 5. The guy was an awesome college QB, and was the epitome of what you would want in a QB.

[Appaholic]

Clenz, those are all valid reasons...and who cares? When Armanti, Williams, Ham & Dickenson got their teams to the title game, they weren't satisfied and willed their team into championship status. I'm not saying Sanders isn't a good QB, just that he doesn't belong in the same breath with QB's who had great stats AND led their teams to championships....sometimes multiple championships. Sanders in the top 10 all time? Got no problem with that. Sanders in top 5 all time? You're fokking crazy.....over who? I submit to you that if coaching and playcalling cost UNI the title, then coaching and playcalling were the primary reason Sanders completed 75% of his passes as well...

Sanders accuracy is all him. Did the play calls give him a good shot to complete the pass? Yep. However, he still had to execute those throws. I know you didn't get to see him play outside of the 05 title game and possible the 07 UD game. The plays he made, the throws he made, and his pocket presence were right there with the best of any QB I have ever watched. He would make plays that should have been dead for a sack into a 20 yard completion.

He led the Panthers to 12 fourth-quarter/overtime victories in his career, posted a 35-9 mark as a starter, set the FCS career record for completion percentage (69.59 percent), and threw one interception in his final 139 pass attempts. It wasn't just that he wasn't throwing incompletions...he wasn't throwing picks.

There is only "so much" Sanders could do in the 07 game against UD when the coaches moved from a game plan that was working into something that wasn't that put UNI in a 2 score hole and forced him to make throws that he shouldn't have had too. He tallied his 12th career fourth quarter/overtime victory in a 38-35 win over New Hampshirein the first round against UNH when hooked up with Montari Leonard on a 24-yard touchdown pass with only seven seconds left to defeat New Hampshire, that was after UNI got the ball with 1:12 left on the clock and no timeouts (maybe had one) and about 70 yards to go.

In 2005 UNI would have been a fist round exit without Sanders. He totaled an FCS-best 1,113 passing yards in the 2005 NCAA FCS playoffs on 87-of-127 passing, which included seven touchdowns. That included ROAD WINS at NUMBER 1 UNH and AT #4 Texas State. That Texas State game consisted of a 10 play 72 yard final 4 minute drive, capped off by a 2 pt conversion to tie the game.



To say Sanders didn't "will his team to victory" because UNI hasn't won a title is...well...asinine.

It would also be...well...true. To imply that Sander's completion is "all him" is implying his receivers nver had to dive for a pass, never had to lay out for a reception, was never the beneficiary of an errant tip by the defender...which is asinine. How can Sander's completion be "all him", but the fact he couldn't bring a title back to UNI is not his fault? I know the fumble in '05 was all him but that only left UNI down by 5 with how much time left? And couldn't put together a game-winning touchdown drive for the National Championship? On the biggest stage in D1-AA, he barely completed 50% of his passes (17/31) and didn't score a TD....if he had scored just one, they would have been 2005 Nat'l Champs....sorry, he can't qualify for all-time greatest QB....not even close...

[clenz]

UD rushing stats from UNI...minus sacks

Lewis, Corey 20 150 2 7.5
Williams, Darian 7 35 0 5.0
Gray, Johnny 2 21 10.5


Please tell me why we didn't run the ball 60 times instead of 36? Especially when we ran probably 3/4 of the plays through the first quarter and a half and Corey Lewis looked like freaking Walter Payton playing against a JV team

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

There are many UNI fans like clenz that simply like to blame that Delaware on playcalling, and like to say that we simply gave up on the running game. It's just not the case.

If you look at the stats, we ran a very balanced offense, just as we had done all season long, throwing 38 times and rushing 36. Yes we dominated on the ground all day long. But we didn't 'go away' from the running game. Maybe we did a bit when we were down by double digits late int the second half, but we HAD to.

The game was lost because of two reasons:

1) We could not get Flacco off the field on 3rd downs. 13 of 20 on 3rd downs, and it seemed like all of those conversions were in the second half. For whatever reason, we just couldn't make the plays we needed to make by hitting flacco on that day. UNI, btw, was 4 of 10 on 3rd downs.

2) Turnovers. Two horrible fumbles by UNI, one of which was returned for a TD. And UNI forced 0 turnovers by UD.


UNI just did not have a good day. That's all there is too it, and that's the nature of the game. I do believe that that UNI was the best team in the country in 2007. We just had a bad day, and ran into an NFL QB.

http://www.unipanthers.com/sports/m-foo ... ifb13.html

Excellent perspective DJH. I watched the game, and watched quite a few UNI games in 2007 and following. I thought it was more about the defense not getting Delaware off the field than the offense as well.

When you schuck the simple smack talk (not completely ) you add some valuable insight.

[clenz]

There are many UNI fans like clenz that simply like to blame that Delaware on playcalling, and like to say that we simply gave up on the running game. It's just not the case.

If you look at the stats, we ran a very balanced offense, just as we had done all season long, throwing 38 times and rushing 36. Yes we dominated on the ground all day long. But we didn't 'go away' from the running game. Maybe we did a bit when we were down by double digits late int the second half, but we HAD to.

The game was lost because of two reasons:

1) We could not get Flacco off the field on 3rd downs. 13 of 20 on 3rd downs, and it seemed like all of those conversions were in the second half. For whatever reason, we just couldn't make the plays we needed to make by hitting flacco on that day. UNI, btw, was 4 of 10 on 3rd downs.

2) Turnovers. Two horrible fumbles by UNI, one of which was returned for a TD. And UNI forced 0 turnovers by UD.


UNI just did not have a good day. That's all there is too it, and that's the nature of the game. I do believe that that UNI was the best team in the country in 2007. We just had a bad day, and ran into an NFL QB.

http://www.unipanthers.com/sports/m-foo ... ifb13.html

Excellent perspective DJH. I watched the game, and watched quite a few UNI games in 2007 and following. I thought it was more about the defense not getting Delaware off the field than the offense as well.

When you schuck the simple smack talk (not completely ) you add some valuable insight.

The defense not getting off the field was huge as well. Yet apparently that is going to be held against Sanders and keep him from being thought of as good as he should be in peoples minds.

Like I said, Sanders is the reason UNI got to where they were.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Excellent perspective DJH. I watched the game, and watched quite a few UNI games in 2007 and following. I thought it was more about the defense not getting Delaware off the field than the offense as well.

When you schuck the simple smack talk (not completely ) you add some valuable insight.

The defense not getting off the field was huge as well. Yet apparently that is going to be held against Sanders and keep him from being thought of as good as he should be in peoples minds.

Like I said, Sanders is the reason UNI got to where they were.

You yourself didn't want it left in his hands even though you guys were down a couple scores in the second 1/2 right? Your coaching staff had confidence in him but you are saying they were fucked to do that?

He was a great QB. You're arguing he was one of the top 5 ever and I can't go with that.

[clenz]

The defense not getting off the field was huge as well. Yet apparently that is going to be held against Sanders and keep him from being thought of as good as he should be in peoples minds.

Like I said, Sanders is the reason UNI got to where they were.

You yourself didn't want it left in his hands even though you guys were down a couple scores in the second 1/2 right? Your coaching staff had confidence in him but you are saying they were fucked to do that?

He was a great QB. You're arguing he was one of the top 5 ever and I can't go with that.

I'm saying that the game shouldn't have been in that position in the second half. The way Corey Lewis was running the ball he should have had far more carries than he did, which completely changes the second half.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

You yourself didn't want it left in his hands even though you guys were down a couple scores in the second 1/2 right? Your coaching staff had confidence in him but you are saying they were fucked to do that?

He was a great QB. You're arguing he was one of the top 5 ever and I can't go with that.

I'm saying that the game shouldn't have been in that position in the second half. The way Corey Lewis was running the ball he should have had far more carries than he did, which completely changes the second half.

I get what you are saying. But you are also saying that in the flow of the game Sanders was in a position to put the team on his back and carry them to the win but couldn't pull it off. What was needed in that game was for the RB to take the reigns and lead the team to the victory and gloss over the weakness (on that day) of the passing game not being able to get it done.

You do see that don't ya?

[Appaholic]

You yourself didn't want it left in his hands even though you guys were down a couple scores in the second 1/2 right? Your coaching staff had confidence in him but you are saying they were fucked to do that?

He was a great QB. You're arguing he was one of the top 5 ever and I can't go with that.

I'm saying that the game shouldn't have been in that position in the second half. The way Corey Lewis was running the ball he should have had far more carries than he did, which completely changes the second half.

So you're NOT saying Sanders belongs in the top5 and you agree with Ursus & I? Then what are we arguing about....

[clenz]

I'm saying that the game shouldn't have been in that position in the second half. The way Corey Lewis was running the ball he should have had far more carries than he did, which completely changes the second half.

I get what you are saying. But you are also saying that in the flow of the game Sanders was in a position to put the team on his back and carry them to the win but couldn't pull it off. What was needed in that game was for the RB to take the reigns and lead the team to the victory and gloss over the weakness (on that day) of the passing game not being able to get it done.

You do see that don't ya?

Sanders threw for 291 and a touch down on 26-38 passing.

I see what you are saying, but to pin that loss on Sanders and say he is the reason (because he wasn't a good enough leader) is the reason UNI lost and that is why he isn't getting the credit he should is what I'm having an issue with right now.

Had you told me before the game Sanders would have the line he did I would have bet 500 bucks that we would have won.

Had you told me before that game Corey Lewis (the schools all time leading rusher) was going to run for 65 yards and a touchdown in the first quarter I would have said forget throwing the ball...keeping giving the ball to Corey.

[Appaholic]

The defense not getting off the field was huge as well. Yet apparently that is going to be held against Sanders and keep him from being thought of as good as he should be in peoples minds.

Like I said, Sanders is the reason UNI got to where they were.

You're lobbying for Sanders in a thread titled "Best All Time FCS QB". All of us agreed he was a heluva player...probably worthy of top 10 consideration. But you're continuing to argue that he is the best or at least top5 when:

1- he never led a team to a national championship
2- finished 2nd once in Payton voting

while at the same time blaming the coaches for Sanders not winning when the coaches decided to step away from the running game and put the ball in Sander's hands to bring the victory home....oh yeah, he fumbled away the game winning TD in 2005 as well....

[Mountaineer]

IMO, because of injury Ritchie Williams was not as good of a QB physically as Trey Elder in the 2005 NC but he had greater leadership and the team had more confidence in him (the "it" factor) and his coming into the game helped to turn things around for the Mountaineers despite his physical limitations. Do App fans agree with my assessment?

Most definitely. Makes me wonder what could have been if Richie had four years in an established spread offense (App switched to the spread his junior year with less than spectacular results). In any case, I'm not making the case for Williams being anywhere near the Top 10, but he most definitely had "it" during his senior year. As much as I love AE, RW is still probably my favorite App.

[uofmman1122]

There are many UNI fans like clenz that simply like to blame that Delaware on playcalling, and like to say that we simply gave up on the running game. It's just not the case.

If you look at the stats, we ran a very balanced offense, just as we had done all season long, throwing 38 times and rushing 36. Yes we dominated on the ground all day long. But we didn't 'go away' from the running game. Maybe we did a bit when we were down by double digits late int the second half, but we HAD to.

The game was lost because of two reasons:

1) We could not get Flacco off the field on 3rd downs. 13 of 20 on 3rd downs, and it seemed like all of those conversions were in the second half. For whatever reason, we just couldn't make the plays we needed to make by hitting flacco on that day. UNI, btw, was 4 of 10 on 3rd downs.

2) Turnovers. Two horrible fumbles by UNI, one of which was returned for a TD. And UNI forced 0 turnovers by UD.


UNI just did not have a good day. That's all there is too it, and that's the nature of the game. I do believe that that UNI was the best team in the country in 2007. We just had a bad day, and ran into an NFL QB.

http://www.unipanthers.com/sports/m-foo ... ifb13.html

Sounds a lot like Montana in the 09 Championship.

Lots of Griz fans blame Hauck for "not throwing it to Mariani" in the 2nd half.

[Grizalltheway]

There are many UNI fans like clenz that simply like to blame that Delaware on playcalling, and like to say that we simply gave up on the running game. It's just not the case.

If you look at the stats, we ran a very balanced offense, just as we had done all season long, throwing 38 times and rushing 36. Yes we dominated on the ground all day long. But we didn't 'go away' from the running game. Maybe we did a bit when we were down by double digits late int the second half, but we HAD to.

The game was lost because of two reasons:

1) We could not get Flacco off the field on 3rd downs. 13 of 20 on 3rd downs, and it seemed like all of those conversions were in the second half. For whatever reason, we just couldn't make the plays we needed to make by hitting flacco on that day. UNI, btw, was 4 of 10 on 3rd downs.

2) Turnovers. Two horrible fumbles by UNI, one of which was returned for a TD. And UNI forced 0 turnovers by UD.


UNI just did not have a good day. That's all there is too it, and that's the nature of the game. I do believe that that UNI was the best team in the country in 2007. We just had a bad day, and ran into an NFL QB.

http://www.unipanthers.com/sports/m-foo ... ifb13.html

Sounds a lot like Montana in the 09 Championship.

Lots of Griz fans blame Hauck for "not throwing it to Mariani" in the 2nd half.

He barely had enough space to breath in the second half, let alone catch a pass.

[UNI88]

You yourself didn't want it left in his hands even though you guys were down a couple scores in the second 1/2 right? Your coaching staff had confidence in him but you are saying they were **** to do that?

He was a great QB. You're arguing he was one of the top 5 ever and I can't go with that.

I was at the game and while I was naturally worried because we were behind I also felt very comfortable that Sanders could lead us back to victory. I was confident in his ability and wouldn't have wanted anyone else leading that team at that point in time.

You're lobbying for Sanders in a thread titled "Best All Time FCS QB". All of us agreed he was a heluva player...probably worthy of top 10 consideration. But you're continuing to argue that he is the best or at least top5 when:

1- he never led a team to a national championship
2- finished 2nd once in Payton voting

while at the same time blaming the coaches for Sanders not winning when the coaches decided to step away from the running game and put the ball in Sander's hands to bring the victory home....oh yeah, he fumbled away the game winning TD in 2005 as well....

I'm not a homer who thinks Sanders is #1 but he was a great FCS QB. The Payton is a single season award and I don't think Sanders greatness as a QB can be measured by how he did in any one season. He was a 4 year starter with more than 40 wins and a 69% completion percentage. He took his team to one NC game where they came up short against another great team and great QB. Is he top 5? No. Should he be in the mix for top 10? Yes.

[CrunchGriz]

Dickenson was so good that he passed for 1500 yards...



...in the 1995 playoffs ALONE. (Yep, that's an average of 375 yards passing for the four games, with 20 TDs and only 2 interceptions.)

...and he played in a total of only 7 quarters in the first three games, because the Griz were putting up so many points (48-0, 45-0, 70-14). I had to check the game write-ups to see when he came out of the games to be sure, but he never made it past the 9 minutes remaining in the third quarter mark of any of the first three playoff games.

So, during the playoffs that year, he played only 11 total quarters out of 16, yet still put up 375 yards/game passing. Projecting that out to show him playing the entire game in every playoff game leads to these eye-popping numbers: 2182 yards passing (545 yards/game). And don't think he couldn't have done it, as the Griz were annihilating those teams that year and they had no answer to stop him.

In the one game in the playoffs in which a team held him down and he had to play the entire game (Marshall, in the championship game), he still managed to pull himself off the deck after being sacked 10 times and pass the team down the field to set up the game-winning field goal.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Dickenson was so good that he passed for 1500 yards...



...in the 1995 playoffs ALONE. (Yep, that's an average of 375 yards passing for the four games, with 20 TDs and only 2 interceptions.)

...and he played in a total of only 7 quarters in the first three games, because the Griz were putting up so many points (48-0, 45-0, 70-14). I had to check the game write-ups to see when he came out of the games to be sure, but he never made it past the 9 minutes remaining in the third quarter mark of any of the first three playoff games.

So, during the playoffs that year, he played only 11 total quarters out of 16, yet still put up 375 yards/game passing. Projecting that out to show him playing the entire game in every playoff game leads to these eye-popping numbers: 2182 yards passing (545 yards/game). And don't think he couldn't have done it, as the Griz were annihilating those teams that year and they had no answer to stop him.

In the one game in the playoffs in which a team held him down and he had to play the entire game (Marshall, in the championship game), he still managed to pull himself off the deck after being sacked 10 times and pass the team down the field to set up the game-winning field goal.

I mentioned this a while back. If you look at what he did and the amount of time he was in a lot of games it pretty astonishing. Most of his stats were accumulated in under 3 quarters of play.

[blueballs]

I hate to piss on the UNI folks' parade but Eric Sanders isn't in the top 5 all time QB's in this division. I'm not convinced he's in the top 5 of the past 10 years.

An argument can't be made that he was better than Ham, Edwards, Dickenson (the holy trinity), McNair, Raymond Gross (I know some of you younger guys haven't heard of him but he led GSU to the title game 3 consecutive years winning two, led GSU to 15-0-0 in 1989 and was the all time winningest QB until Edwards broke his record two years ago- one of the best option QB's EVER), or Michael Payton.

You can make arguments for Romo, Gannon, Jamie Martin, John Friesz, Greg Hill, Todd Hamel, Chad Pennington, Doug Nussmeier, among many others too.

[Appaholic]

You yourself didn't want it left in his hands even though you guys were down a couple scores in the second 1/2 right? Your coaching staff had confidence in him but you are saying they were **** to do that?

He was a great QB. You're arguing he was one of the top 5 ever and I can't go with that.

I was at the game and while I was naturally worried because we were behind I also felt very comfortable that Sanders could lead us back to victory. I was confident in his ability and wouldn't have wanted anyone else leading that team at that point in time.

You're lobbying for Sanders in a thread titled "Best All Time FCS QB". All of us agreed he was a heluva player...probably worthy of top 10 consideration. But you're continuing to argue that he is the best or at least top5 when:

1- he never led a team to a national championship
2- finished 2nd once in Payton voting

while at the same time blaming the coaches for Sanders not winning when the coaches decided to step away from the running game and put the ball in Sander's hands to bring the victory home....oh yeah, he fumbled away the game winning TD in 2005 as well....

I'm not a homer who thinks Sanders is #1 but he was a great FCS QB. The Payton is a single season award and I don't think Sanders greatness as a QB can be measured by how he did in any one season. He was a 4 year starter with more than 40 wins and a 69% completion percentage. He took his team to one NC game where they came up short against another great team and great QB. Is he top 5? No. Should he be in the mix for top 10? Yes.

I don't disagree at all. He was an awesome QB any team would be fortnate to have for 4 yrs.

[Appaholic]

Dickenson was so good that he passed for 1500 yards...



...in the 1995 playoffs ALONE. (Yep, that's an average of 375 yards passing for the four games, with 20 TDs and only 2 interceptions.)

That's fokking UNREAL numbers...

[DJH]

I hate to piss on the UNI folks' parade but Eric Sanders isn't in the top 5 all time QB's in this division. I'm not convinced he's in the top 5 of the past 10 years.

An argument can't be made that he was better than Ham, Edwards, Dickenson (the holy trinity), McNair, Raymond Gross (I know some of you younger guys haven't heard of him but he led GSU to the title game 3 consecutive years winning two, led GSU to 15-0-0 in 1989 and was the all time winningest QB until Edwards broke his record two years ago- one of the best option QB's EVER), or Michael Payton.

You can make arguments for Romo, Gannon, Jamie Martin, John Friesz, Greg Hill, Todd Hamel, Chad Pennington, Doug Nussmeier, among many others too.

Not many people, if any at all, have claimed he was top 5 all time.

Oh, and please name the 5 QBs that are ahead of Sanders in the last 10 years.

[Appaholic]

I hate to piss on the UNI folks' parade but Eric Sanders isn't in the top 5 all time QB's in this division. I'm not convinced he's in the top 5 of the past 10 years.

An argument can't be made that he was better than Ham, Edwards, Dickenson (the holy trinity), McNair, Raymond Gross (I know some of you younger guys haven't heard of him but he led GSU to the title game 3 consecutive years winning two, led GSU to 15-0-0 in 1989 and was the all time winningest QB until Edwards broke his record two years ago- one of the best option QB's EVER), or Michael Payton.

You can make arguments for Romo, Gannon, Jamie Martin, John Friesz, Greg Hill, Todd Hamel, Chad Pennington, Doug Nussmeier, among many others too.

Not many people, if any at all, have claimed he was top 5 all time.

Clenz

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I hate to piss on the UNI folks' parade but Eric Sanders isn't in the top 5 all time QB's in this division. I'm not convinced he's in the top 5 of the past 10 years.

An argument can't be made that he was better than Ham, Edwards, Dickenson (the holy trinity), McNair, Raymond Gross (I know some of you younger guys haven't heard of him but he led GSU to the title game 3 consecutive years winning two, led GSU to 15-0-0 in 1989 and was the all time winningest QB until Edwards broke his record two years ago- one of the best option QB's EVER), or Michael Payton.

You can make arguments for Romo, Gannon, Jamie Martin, John Friesz, Greg Hill, Todd Hamel, Chad Pennington, Doug Nussmeier, among many others too.

blu, I love that there are guys on the board that remember all those names. Gross was just fucking incredible, unstoppable, and absolutely in the top two option QB's if not #1. He shredded us in 1989, but we were in good company cuz he did it to everyone.

Jamie Martin, Friesz, and all the names that didn't get it done in the big game were on the Sanders level. It's a great level to be considered in for Sanders for sure.

Awesome trip down memory lane you provided.

[bandl]

Dickenson was so good that he passed for 1500 yards...



...in the 1995 playoffs ALONE. (Yep, that's an average of 375 yards passing for the four games, with 20 TDs and only 2 interceptions.)

...and he played in a total of only 7 quarters in the first three games, because the Griz were putting up so many points (48-0, 45-0, 70-14). I had to check the game write-ups to see when he came out of the games to be sure, but he never made it past the 9 minutes remaining in the third quarter mark of any of the first three playoff games.

So, during the playoffs that year, he played only 11 total quarters out of 16, yet still put up 375 yards/game passing. Projecting that out to show him playing the entire game in every playoff game leads to these eye-popping numbers: 2182 yards passing (545 yards/game). And don't think he couldn't have done it, as the Griz were annihilating those teams that year and they had no answer to stop him.

In the one game in the playoffs in which a team held him down and he had to play the entire game (Marshall, in the championship game), he still managed to pull himself off the deck after being sacked 10 times and pass the team down the field to set up the game-winning field goal.

Damn....those are the kind of numbers you get playing Madden on Playstation on amateur level....

I wish I had watched 1-AA football back then...

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Dickenson was so good that he passed for 1500 yards...



...in the 1995 playoffs ALONE. (Yep, that's an average of 375 yards passing for the four games, with 20 TDs and only 2 interceptions.)

...and he played in a total of only 7 quarters in the first three games, because the Griz were putting up so many points (48-0, 45-0, 70-14). I had to check the game write-ups to see when he came out of the games to be sure, but he never made it past the 9 minutes remaining in the third quarter mark of any of the first three playoff games.

So, during the playoffs that year, he played only 11 total quarters out of 16, yet still put up 375 yards/game passing. Projecting that out to show him playing the entire game in every playoff game leads to these eye-popping numbers: 2182 yards passing (545 yards/game). And don't think he couldn't have done it, as the Griz were annihilating those teams that year and they had no answer to stop him.

In the one game in the playoffs in which a team held him down and he had to play the entire game (Marshall, in the championship game), he still managed to pull himself off the deck after being sacked 10 times and pass the team down the field to set up the game-winning field goal.

Damn....those are the kind of numbers you get playing Madden on Playstation on amateur level....

I wish I had watched 1-AA football back then...

In his second game, he wasn't even the starter and we were at Oregon he came in in the second quarter and almost led out of a hole and late in the 4th quarter we were threatening in the red zone to take the game away. He completed a pass to Billy Cockhill to put us down at the 10...but we got called for holding I think it was and put us back...we didn't score but Autzen was on pins and needles.

The sports writer in Eugene raved about Dickensen in the paper the next day. Me and a buddy were sitting in a Diner in Eugene eating breakfast before getting back on the road and U of O fans kept stopping by the table and saying "Holy shit, I've never seen anything like that Dickensen guy!"

The sportswriter commented on him that "I think we are witnessing the second coming of Doug Flutie".

In a four year High school career and a three year college career I think he only lost 5 or 6 games.