Delaware and the FBS

[State Line Liquors]

I can't believe with the type of success Delaware Football has had with players in the NFL, appearances in National Championship games, frequent contender for conference championships is actually losing attendance and donor money.

If you aren't moving forward you're going backward and it appears to me UD football has been treading water for quite a while in a lot of areas.

You're certainly welcome to elaborate on whatever areas you feel we're treading water in.

[GannonFan]

Ancilliary point, but genuine question: Was that 'or at least my' beloved football remark intended as some kind of swipe? Hopefully I'm just misinterpreting.

No, not a direct swipe at you, but rather a swipe at the collective group of rah-rah sis boom bah people on GoHens that care more about everything but football at UD than football itself.

Many disagree with my particular take, but that take is that I am a UD football fan and season ticket holder first and foremost. When I send in my UDAF donation, I write in that it is to go to "FOOTBALL". I don't want it spread around to people throwing javelins, or synchronized swimming, or whatever the **** else non-football players are doing at UD. Hopefully those sports have people that care about them, because I don't. I only care about UD football. That pisses off a lot of the well-rounded men on GoHens. They can below me.

There are lots of well-rounded men at GoHens? I know mottman loves the band, but are there more than that there? Heck, am I one of them???

[GannonFan]

If you aren't moving forward you're going backward and it appears to me UD football has been treading water for quite a while in a lot of areas.

You're certainly welcome to elaborate on whatever areas you feel we're treading water in.

Nah, details are hard to come up with - it just sounds great to throw a statement like that out and hope no one notices.

[93henfan]

You're certainly welcome to elaborate on whatever areas you feel we're treading water in.

Nah, details are hard to come up with - it just sounds great to throw a statement like that out and hope no one notices.

Certainly, the sky is not falling, but I'd actually agree with AppMan that Delaware football has basically tread water for the last forty years. Granted, we were well ahead of the curve forty years ago, but we've allowed several programs to catch and pass us. Our stadium is a prime example. Our record attendance was set in 1973 and the stadium has not been expanded or renovated since, despite a real demand for tickets in the middle part of the last decade that now appears to have dried up significantly with the new heavy-handed donation policies with no accompanying facilities improvement for football, save some giant posters, some handrails, and an adequate scoreboard. We have a coach with three trips to the FCS CG and one title in the past eight years and has been unable to parlay any of that success into significant upgrades from the AD. It's disappointing.

[GannonFan]

Nah, details are hard to come up with - it just sounds great to throw a statement like that out and hope no one notices.

Certainly, the sky is not falling, but I'd actually agree with AppMan that Delaware football has basically tread water for the last forty years. Granted, we were well ahead of the curve forty years ago, but we've allowed several programs to catch and pass us. Our stadium is a prime example. Our record attendance was set in 1973 and the stadium has not been expanded or renovated since, despite a real demand for tickets in the middle part of the last decade that now appears to have dried up significantly with the new heavy-handed donation policies with no accompanying facilities improvement for football, save some giant posters, some handrails, and an adequate scoreboard. We have a coach with three trips to the FCS CG and one title in the past eight years and has been unable to parlay any of that success into significant upgrades from the AD. It's disappointing.

Treading water while remaining an elite FCS program isn't really the negative idea that treading water implies. As much as we decry the lack of facility upgrades at UD, only a small handful of teams really can boast of having it better than we have (and how is the scoreboard "adequate"? That would mean that 95% of the scoreboards in FCS are "below adequate"). Really, for UD to not tread water, they would need to move to FBS, and I don't think they'll do that unless their hand is forced.

[Blue Hen Fanatic]

The vast majority of blue hen football fans do not post on this site, gohens.net, or any site for that matter, so these posters are not necessarily the spokespeople for University of Delaware Football. With that said, I do believe that many blue hen fans who posts on these sites have valid points with regard to the direction of UD Football.

My point, however valid or not, is that UD has overestimated its product's value, and underestimated its fans' intellect. The reason so many UD Season Ticket Holders are dropping their long held season ticket seats, while opting to purchase individual game tickets to avoid the forced donation, is because many of them are of the working class that do not have hundreds of dollars extra in their already tight budgets to finance other UD athletic programs.

Much like financing the federal budget on the backs of the middle class, while the wealthy receive tax cuts, the common UD football fan is being asked to give more than they have to support programs they are not interested in, while a wealthy billion dollar endowment continues to sit on the sidelines, untapped, and growing larger everyday.

UD thinks we are all so stupid to buy into their RA RA, that we would take away from our own families to give to them.

If you can afford paying extra to UD, than great, and if not, than purchase single game tickets in less desirable seats.

Fortunately, I can afford to pay extra at this time. However, that does not prevent me from seeing the big picture many of the common fans are seeing.

At this time, UD is not ready for prime time, and may not be ready to move up to the FBS for sometime to come.

Of course, that is just one blue hen fanatic's perspective

[State Line Liquors]

After the completion of the new basketball facility, the next step will likely be the football stadium and that performance center in the north endzone. As long as it's an ongoing and continual improvement process I'm pleased (new scoreboard, new practice fields, new playing surface, artwork honoring the greats, handrails, etc). Maybe not fast enough or major enough for some, but I like the trajectory. Football stadium improvements have been I guess put somewhat on the back burner while they complete the basketball facility, which was absolutely needed. Thankfully we don't need the extra seating at the moment anyways, since so many old timers are offended by having to cough up a few more bucks to keep their A#1 seats.

...that football facility would be awful nice though. Hopefully before I'm retired.

[bluehenbillk]

Blue Hen Fanatic has some good points - the STH count did drop the past 2 years, and it will be VERY interesting to see the STH number for this season as it would be directly tied to the seat donations. Coming off a year where UD played in the NC, if the season ticket # which is around 9K I believe drops let's say to 8K or below then there has to be a direct correlation to the donations required. It'd be interesting to see how that plays at JMU as well because their donation levels look pretty similar to UD. I'm still waiting to see what the price for individual game tickets at the Tub will be for this season. W&M for example doesn't even sell their midfield seats for individual games - it's QB Club or whatever the donation for those are called or nothing.

-Will individual games be unchanged?

-Will individual game prices go up or by how much?

-Will certain seats be unsold for individual games (season w/donation only)?

Answers to those questions may dictate what happens next year, UD has some tough decisions to make. I've heard from some people it'd be ridiculous to pay almost $1,000 for 4 STH's plus parking and have somebody sit right next/in front of/behind you for say $20-$25 per seat....

[93henfan]

I've heard from some people it'd be ridiculous to pay almost $1,000 for 4 STH's plus parking and have somebody sit right next/in front of/behind you for say $20-$25 per seat....

You just made my blood pressure shoot up about 50 points as I flashed back to the playoffs last year. The STH's to the right of us in our row did not buy playoff tickets. They have four season tickets. During one of the playoff games, I think against UNH, two single-game yahoos show up with the two seats just to our right. The two seats to their right remained empty. We told them to slide on down so everyone would have a little more room and they nervously laughed and said that those weren't their seats. Come the fuck on.

[GannonFan]

Yup, I agree with BHBK. Was just listening to WFAN in the car and Francessa was basically saying the same thing about Yankee and Mets tickets - the way they've done their pricing they have essentially wiped out (the Mets) or greatly reduced (the Yanks) their season ticket base as people are well aware that you can get the same seats for cheaper prices by going through secondary channels (mostly Stub Hub in those cases, but for UD single game tickets would be another source). If you really care about which seats you have and want to all sit together (my extended family has 16 seats) and want to sit in the same spot all the time, and don't mind coughing up the extra per seat "donation" (for our seats it was $75 per seat for the year) then you'll stay a season ticket holder. If you don't want to do that or can't do that financially, it's very likely you can end up with a great deal as you can pick which games to go see (i.e. many people will stay away from the West Chester and Delaware St games) and then only buy the games you want and do it much more affordably than season tickets with the donation would be. So at the end of the day, you have a more fluid ticket base, but you may still end up ahead depending on what type of product you put on the field and if people keep buying tickets late in the year.

[andy7171]

Treading water while remaining an elite FCS program isn't really the negative idea that treading water implies. As much as we decry the lack of facility upgrades at UD, only a small handful of teams really can boast of having it better than we have (and how is the scoreboard "adequate"? That would mean that 95% of the scoreboards in FCS are "below adequate"). Really, for UD to not tread water, they would need to move to FBS, and I don't think they'll do that unless their hand is forced.

I wish Towson would tread water like Delaware does. They've been in sink like a stone mode the last 4 years.

...but it's good to know our scoreboard puts us in the top 5%.

[89Hen]

underestimated its fans' intellect... Much like financing the federal budget on the backs of the middle class, while the wealthy receive tax cuts

Maybe they didn't.

[GannonFan]

Treading water while remaining an elite FCS program isn't really the negative idea that treading water implies. As much as we decry the lack of facility upgrades at UD, only a small handful of teams really can boast of having it better than we have (and how is the scoreboard "adequate"? That would mean that 95% of the scoreboards in FCS are "below adequate"). Really, for UD to not tread water, they would need to move to FBS, and I don't think they'll do that unless their hand is forced.

I wish Towson would tread water like Delaware does. They've been in sink like a stone mode the last 4 years.

...but it's good to know our scoreboard puts us in the top 5%.

Don't get excited - it's merely "adequate".

[State Line Liquors]

There's some short term pain with these participation level changes, but after they're complete I think it'll be an overall positive for UD. I wouldn't be surprised in a couple years to see more sections priced like the new $85 'Alumni' section after the soil's been turned over a bit here, to boost the attendance numbers again. In the process they'll be maximizing the contributions of those who have the means, and are willing to dig a bit deeper into their pockets for UD football over the long term. It was neccesary for the Athletic Department to get a handle on that if they were going to be able to plan from a position of strength going forward.

As far as the product goes, I think at least at this level we've got that part covered. Barring a calamitous injury scenario I think we've got the depth and talent to be a regular in the playoffs for the next couple years. The recruiting profile might be the best it's been since Keeler arrived.

[LastMinuteman]

UMass's conference affiliations are like kid finger painting who can't make up his mind between eating the paint and actually painting with it.

We prefer to think of it as "celebrating diversity."

[easterntennhen]

I grew up 4 miles from the tub and practically grew up there. I remember buying tickets for 4 bucks(endzone tickets) and then sneaking by the ushers to sit at the top of the east stands with my dad.that was the mid 70's to mid 80's and a ticket was only 8 bucks for the grandstand seats. I came back home for the Maine game last year and paid 28 bucks for a seat in the east stands. That is a lot of inflation in 20 years. As for the stadium it looks almost like it did 35 years ago except for the north end zone stands and some improvement to the concrete seats. And the pretty new scoreboard. We don't need a new stadium, just some big improvements to what we have. Could we move up to fbs? Absolutely. But why do so unless we are forced go make that decision. I love fcs football and our place in it. It sure would be nice for the administration to put some of that billion dollar endowment to good use. But they won't because we are having a great amount of success despite the lack of investment in the football program. I live for blue hen football and I see continued success in our teams future.

[AZGrizFan]

I grew up 4 miles from the tub and practically grew up there. I remember buying tickets for 4 bucks(endzone tickets) and then sneaking by the ushers to sit at the top of the east stands with my dad.that was the mid 70's to mid 80's and a ticket was only 8 bucks for the grandstand seats. I came back home for the Maine game last year and paid 28 bucks for a seat in the east stands. That is a lot of inflation in 20 years. As for the stadium it looks almost like it did 35 years ago except for the north end zone stands and some improvement to the concrete seats. And the pretty new scoreboard. We don't need a new stadium, just some big improvements to what we have. Could we move up to fbs? Absolutely. But why do so unless we are forced go make that decision. I love fcs football and our place in it. It sure would be nice for the administration to put some of that billion dollar endowment to good use. But they won't because we are having a great amount of success despite the lack of investment in the football program. I live for blue hen football and I see continued success in our teams future.

It might seem like a lot of inflation, but it sounds to me like the issue isn't the $28 you're paying now, but the fact that tickets were so low just 20 years ago.

[easterntennhen]

Just a longing for the way things were back then. God I miss those carefree days. How about all of you?

[henfan]

STATEMENT: Some and perhaps many JMU fans want to see their FB team reclassify.
FACT: JMU has no definite stated plans for FB reclassification.

Ditto GSU and ODU.

Like those 3 schools, there are some fans in Newark who might like to see the Hens reclassify someday under the right circumstances. Like the administrations in Harrisonburg, Atlanta & Norfolk, the admin in Newark also has no definite stated plans for FB reclassification.

Hate to be a party pooper but, IMO, it's pointless to speculate about something over which you have no control and isn't on the immediate horizon.

[CAA Flagship]

Yup, ODU has no plans of reclassifying, but they do have an idea of what it will take for them to decide to do so (strong conference affiliation).

Getting back to the season ticket thing, what exactly is going on at UD. Do they set a certain value to a section? And what is the breakdown? (not looking for an explanation but a link would suffice).

I just want to compare it to the way ODU does it and determine which way is better. Season tickets were/are as follows: 2009 = $120 for 7 games, 2010 = $140 for 7 games, and 2011 = $151 for 6 games. (There are a limited number of family discount tickets available as well as premium seats) So generally, all of the seats are priced the same and all of the tickets include parking. They way to get better seats, and better parking, is to accumulate priority points through donations, season tickets, etc. The seats are chosen in order of the priority points every three years. The beauty of this (for the school) is that nobody really knows how many points to accumulate in order to get the seats you want. This lends to "panic" donating to assure a good seat. Not all season ticket holders are donors, but since there is a waiting list, their attendance is in jeopardy (added luxury for the school to entice donations). So, to a certain degree, it is like a blind auction. Is this a more profitable way, and fair way for the fans, to do business?

[93henfan]

Delaware instituted a mandatory per-seat donation this year as follows:

Tier 1 Box - $500 per seat
Tier 2 Box - $300
Tier 3 Box - $175
Tier 4 Box - $125
Sections D & K - $125
Sections E, C, J, & L - $75
Sections B, F, L & M - $50

Seating Prices: http://www.bluehens.com/tickets/2011FBD ... prices.pdf
Parking Fees: http://www.bluehens.com/tickets/2011FB% ... %20Map.pdf

My tickets in Section C were $130/ticket for six home games. Then add $75 per seat mandatory donation and $150 for parking in the gold champions lot.

We also have a priority points system, much like you mentioned for ODU.

[henfan]

Yup, ODU has no plans of reclassifying, but they do have an idea of what it will take for them to decide to do so (strong conference affiliation).

You just described virtually every school in the FCS. Every AD has some idea of what reclassificaiton would take. Most understand that reclassification is just not in the cards.

[grizzaholic]

Delaware instituted a mandatory per-seat donation this year as follows:

Tier 1 Box - $500 per seat
Tier 2 Box - $300
Tier 3 Box - $175
Tier 4 Box - $125
Sections D & K - $125
Sections E, C, J, & L - $75
Sections B, F, L & M - $50

Seating Prices: http://www.bluehens.com/tickets/2011FBD ... prices.pdf
Parking Fees: http://www.bluehens.com/tickets/2011FB% ... %20Map.pdf

My tickets in Section C were $130/ticket for six home games. Then add $75 per seat mandatory donation and $150 for parking in the gold champions lot.

We also have a priority points system, much like you mentioned for ODU.

JESUS.

[CAA Flagship]

93henfan,
What are the priority points used for?

Our priority points are used in the same manner for basketball as football. I'm assuming UD does not charge extra for seats in basketball like football.

I'm trying to equate my 45 yard line seats and great parking to your fees. 4 seats in section D or K appear to be ($155 + $125) x 4 = $1120. Parking appears to be $1300. So that is $2420 for the equivalent of what I have at ODU.

Since we use the "blind auction" method, I am paying $5000 donation per year plus $151 x 4 tickets = $5604 which includes the VIP parking (as well as VIP parking and VIP Room passes for all basketball games with the purchase of season tickets). But the parking spaces and seats are filled based on priority points. The school would like the prime parking lot be accessable with a minumum $5000 donation, we are not there yet. If you are a first time donor, that is what it will take, but if you are a long time donor and season ticket holder, you will have enough points to get in the prime parking lot with a $3500 donation.

So for a first time person, it is cheaper at UD for the same setup that I have. But I guess nothing carries over to basketball. For a long time person, it is still more expensive at ODU but when you factor in basketball benefits, the gap narrows I guess. (Note: I do use a company match on the donation to make it much more of a bargain).

[bluehenbillk]

You're right, most of the fans at UD A: want everything to stay just like it was in the early 1970's, and B: think they're paying the highest prices in all of FCS - which we're not.

Thanks for the ODU comparison, I know W&M and JMU are similar among others....