Best All Time FCS QB

[Appaholic]

When I saw the list and read that the criteria was their play in college, my first reaction was why is Flacco on there instead of Santos? Ricky played four years, won the Payton Award, UNH went 2-0 in the head-to-head match-ups (acknowledging that Toman finished off the go ahead TD and the game in the second meeting), he was 3-0 against FBS teams (two were BCS), etc. Aren't Ricky's passing yards something like 3rd all time in FCS. His Wildcat teams were never viewed as deep and talented as most top CAA teams let alone the top tier FCS teams yet he put up ridiculous numbers and had four playoff appearances and three quarterfinal runs. The first round loss was the game when UNH was the last team in and went out to UNI where he almost beat the overall #1 seed Panthers (juggling TD catch with :07 left for a three point win).

FCS QB: Santos > Flacco
Pro Potential for FCS QB: Flacco > Santos
Pro & FCS Credentials Flacco > Santos

I'm not saying that he's the best all time, but he deserves to be on that poll list.

Santos should totally be on this list over Flacco. The only reason Flacco is on this list is because he's in the NFL now. And the only reason Tracy Ham isn't on the list either is because the poll was started by an Appy State guy.

I don't disagree with any of the comments regarding who should or shouldn't be on the list, merely wanted to start the discussion for shit & giggles...I agree Santos & Ham should be on the list (thought about Santos but completely spaced on Ham ) and wanted to have a UD QB on the list since they've had so many good ones over the years, so I picked the only one I had seen in person...

[bluehenbillk]

Agreed on Santos & Ham - they're no brainers.

[GannonFan]

Agreed - Flacco isn't in the top 3 of best UD QB's of all time, so I don't see how he could be on this list.

I go with DD as well. McNair was great, but DD did it against better competition.

FWIW, Tracy Ham should be on that list (as well as Gannon, of course). And since I don't see MJ around here, where the heck is the love for Mike Buck?????

Out of curiousity, I know you're putting Gannon over Flacco, no argument there, who are your other 2? Vergantino, which is arguable, and????

Yeah, he should be #3. I would go Gannon, Vergantino, Flacco.

So then, Gannon, Santos, and Ham should be on the list for sure.

[kemajic]

Well how about the fact that the 1996 team is often considered the greatest Griz team of all-time, riding on a stellar offense, sans-Dave?

Jeez, I complement our receivers of the time (Douglass was considered our greatest up until about a year ago) but no-one wants to agree with me

I will take the '94 team until DD was knocked out. Amazing OL led by Scott Gragg. I was at the '94 SF game at eventual NC YSU. DD would have killed them. The backup QB had all day and still couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Worst performance I had ever seen by a Griz QB until Edwards laid the ultimate egg in the '02 MSU game.

I'm with you; Douglas was the best I'd seen until Mariani.

[blueballs]

Tracy Ham is a no brainer... he is in the College Football Hall of fame after all.

Here's a couple of fun facts about Ham:

- In his two championship game appearances he threw for over 700 yards and rushed for over 300 combined.

- He led Georgia Southern to the national title in its second year in 1-AA with a team that was composed of at least one third walk-ons.

Ask D1B about Ham... he had to play against him.

You also have to include Steve McNair.

[clenz]

Meyer should be on this list based on his pass efficiency % alone. I don't think anyone has touched it since.

I'm not sure what number it is that you are talking about but Eric Sanders holds the FCS career record for completion percentage (69.59 percent).

[clenz]

Tracy Ham is a no brainer... he is in the College Football Hall of fame after all.

Here's a couple of fun facts about Ham:

- In his two championship game appearances he threw for over 700 yards and rushed for over 300 combined.

- He led Georgia Southern to the national title in its second year in 1-AA with a team that was composed of at least one third walk-ons.

Ask D1B about Ham... he had to play against him.

You also have to include Steve McNair.

D1B and Cappy have told me stories about Tracy...he seems like a douche.

[dal4018]

OK, so it's the dead time of the year for college sport's fans and MLB sucks. So, for debate, who is the most oustanding QB (during college) of this list and why?

How about someone from Lomax era SUPER BOWL MVP DOUG WILLIAMS OF GRAMBLING!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mich Griz]

DD won the championship AT Marshall. I don't think any 1AA team won a chapionship in a more hostile environment. There was 9-10 future NFL players on the field for that game. An epic battle! DD got sacked 9 times and still kept coming back. Unbelievable ending to an awesome college career.

That said nothing made my day more then when AE took down MICHIGAN. The mighty Wolverines have still not recovered from that loss and it propelled ASU into greatness.

Both schools owe a lot to those two lads

[Baldy]

Tracy Ham is a no brainer... he is in the College Football Hall of fame after all.

Here's a couple of fun facts about Ham:

- In his two championship game appearances he threw for over 700 yards and rushed for over 300 combined.

- He led Georgia Southern to the national title in its second year in 1-AA with a team that was composed of at least one third walk-ons.

Ask D1B about Ham... he had to play against him.

You also have to include Steve McNair.

D1B and Cappy have told me stories about Tracy...he seems like a douche.

Yeah, they still cuss him to this day.

Oh, BTW, as a member of the College Football HOF and the Canadian Football HOF. Ham is the best all-time FCS QB.

[/close thread]

[Mvemjsunpx]

OK, so it's the dead time of the year for college sport's fans and MLB sucks. So, for debate, who is the most oustanding QB (during college) of this list and why?

How about someone from Lomax era SUPER BOWL MVP DOUG WILLIAMS OF GRAMBLING!!!!!!!!!!!!

Williams finished his career the year before I-AA was created.

[93henfan]

How about someone from Lomax era SUPER BOWL MVP DOUG WILLIAMS OF GRAMBLING!!!!!!!!!!!!

Williams finished his career the year before I-AA was created.

Dickenson, McNair, Romo and Lomax finished their careers before FCS was created.

[Mvemjsunpx]

Like McNair, Dickenson also proved himself as a pro. He didn't get a fair shot in the NFL, but he finished his career as—by a large margin—the most efficient passer in the history of the CFL.

OK, now I've figured out the real reason Dickenson didn't get a fair shot in the NFL.

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/andy-dalton-red-hair/

[Appaholic]

Williams finished his career the year before I-AA was created.

Dickenson, McNair, Romo and Lomax finished their careers before FCS was created.

Look at title of poll. My apologies for not including D1-AA in the thread title, Ralph.

[mlbowl]

This is gonna be a total homer driven vote (rightfully so in this case) because although I saw Armanti and recognize his greatness I could not say he tops Dave Dickenson.

+1

[Silenoz]

DD won the championship AT Marshall. I don't think any 1AA team won a chapionship in a more hostile environment. There was 9-10 future NFL players on the field for that game. An epic battle! DD got sacked 9 times and still kept coming back. Unbelievable ending to an awesome college career.

That said nothing made my day more then when AE took down MICHIGAN. The mighty Wolverines have still not recovered from that loss and it propelled ASU into greatness.

Both schools owe a lot to those two lads

Youngstown did. Repeatedly.

edit: nevermind, one of them was in Georgia I guess

And yeah, I remember seeing the 4th quarter ASU-UM score on the espn scoreboard and figuring it was a glitch. I have never been so giddy about a final score that did not involve one of my teams or Duke

[UNI88]

D1B and Cappy have told me stories about Tracy...he seems like a douche.

Yeah, they still cuss him to this day.

Oh, BTW, as a member of the College Football HOF and the Canadian Football HOF. Ham is the best all-time FCS QB.

[/close thread]

I was at the 85 UNI/GS game and Ham was amazing. It was an incredible display of offensive firepower on both sides.

Ham, Gannon & Santos should all be on the list. McNair stays on it but I couldn't vote for him since he never competed for an NC.

I voted or AE over DD but it was very close, I would vote for Ham over either.

[Mvemjsunpx]

Ham, Gannon & Santos should all be on the list. McNair stays on it but I couldn't vote for him since he never competed for an NC.

What do you mean by this? Santos never played in a title game either. Or do you mean playoffs? Alcorn made the playoffs twice when McNair was there (they didn't do well, though).

[UNI88]

Ham, Gannon & Santos should all be on the list. McNair stays on it but I couldn't vote for him since he never competed for an NC.

What do you mean by this? Santos never played in a title game either. Or do you mean playoffs? Alcorn made the playoffs twice when McNair was there (they didn't do well, though).

I have both McNair and Santos on the list but neither is near the top (Ham, AE, DD). Everyone on the list is a great college QB but the ones at the top of my list won NCs.

[GannonFan]

What do you mean by this? Santos never played in a title game either. Or do you mean playoffs? Alcorn made the playoffs twice when McNair was there (they didn't do well, though).

I have both McNair and Santos on the list but neither is near the top (Ham, AE, DD). Everyone on the list is a great college QB but the ones at the top of my list won NCs.

Gotcha - so the differentiating criteria for you for judging QB's is how good everyone else was on their teams, epscially the defense in some cases. That's like judging a meal you have for dinner based on what movie you watched later that night.

[McNeese72]

Definitely not saying he was the best or that he even belongs on the list, but McNeese's Kerry Joseph 1991-1995 was a pretty good FCS QB. After hopping around in the NFL trying to play other positions, he ended up being a pretty good QB in the CFL later in his pro career.

Doc

[UNI88]

I have both McNair and Santos on the list but neither is near the top (Ham, AE, DD). Everyone on the list is a great college QB but the ones at the top of my list won NCs.

Gotcha - so the differentiating criteria for you for judging QB's is how good everyone else was on their teams, epscially the defense in some cases. That's like judging a meal you have for dinner based on what movie you watched later that night.

Not quite that simple. As I mentioned, all of the QBs are great QBs, I use NCs to separate who I consider the best from the great. Nothing wrong with that, this poll is subjective and how I rank the QBs is no more or less subjective than you. Are you saying that your rationale is based completely on unassailable logic without any subjectivity?

And for the record, I don't think GS's 85 defense was that good. If memory serves, UNI put up 600+ yards on them and ran out of time before they could tie the game. They had some good players, but Ham made everyone on that team a whole lot better and there is absolutely no way they would have won that 85 NC without him.

[Appaholic]

Gotcha - so the differentiating criteria for you for judging QB's is how good everyone else was on their teams, epscially the defense in some cases. That's like judging a meal you have for dinner based on what movie you watched later that night.

Not quite that simple. As I mentioned, all of the QBs are great QBs, I use NCs to separate who I consider the best from the great. Nothing wrong with that, this poll is subjective and how I rank the QBs is no more or less subjective than you. Are you saying that your rationale is based completely on unassailable logic without any subjectivity?

Agree. Obviously this is a very subjective debate therefore one must use certain benchmarks to differentiate all of the superb careers. Awarding "Greatest" status to a QB who never led his team to a NC is as tough as claiming Dan Marino or Jim Kelly is the greatest QB in NFL history with zero SB won between them....

[SuperHornet]

Obviously this is a very subjective debate therefore one must use certain benchmarks to differentiate all of the superb careers. Awarding "Greatest" status to a QB who never led his team to a NC is as tough as claiming Dan Marino or Jim Kelly is the greatest QB in NFL history with zero SB won between them....

This is a very good point. Marino had weapons (the Marks Brothers among them) and a superb defense. Kelly had them, too (Reed and Thomas) and also a good defense. The same could be said of Fouts (Joiner, etc.), except he never really had a defense.

Since Danny White actually has a ring (as much as SOME want to complain that he was "just" a backup, White DID start the Super Bowl against the Broncos, albeit not at QB), my vote for best QB IN THE SUPER BOWL ERA w/o a ring would have to be Archie Manning. He arguably had NO weapons and NO defense for the vast majority of his time in NOLA, and had next to nothing during his (short) stays in Houston and Minnesota. One could argue for Wes Chandler as a "weapon," but he didn't get really good until he went to the Chargers, where Fouts was already on the way out.

Thread successfully hijacked.

[GannonFan]

Gotcha - so the differentiating criteria for you for judging QB's is how good everyone else was on their teams, epscially the defense in some cases. That's like judging a meal you have for dinner based on what movie you watched later that night.

Not quite that simple. As I mentioned, all of the QBs are great QBs, I use NCs to separate who I consider the best from the great. Nothing wrong with that, this poll is subjective and how I rank the QBs is no more or less subjective than you. Are you saying that your rationale is based completely on unassailable logic without any subjectivity?

And for the record, I don't think GS's 85 defense was that good. If memory serves, UNI put up 600+ yards on them and ran out of time before they could tie the game. They had some good players, but Ham made everyone on that team a whole lot better and there is absolutely no way they would have won that 85 NC without him.

Of course all views are subjective. But at least some views have somthing to do with the player being evaluated. Your method seems to be the best way to determine the best QB is to judge the players other than the QB. That would seem to put Trent Dilfer pretty high up on the list of great NFL QB's, if you use your criteria in that arena, based on him leading the Ravens to the SB title a few years back. If you're going to be subjective, at least stick to the topic of which you're being subjective, IMO of course.