The Summit Owns the MVFC

[DJH]

lol, great thread.

-UNO is not going to the MVFC
-UNO is dropping football
-There is not going to be a Summit football league
-The Summit is terrible
-the DSU's are not getting into the MVC


/thread

[Trapped in CA]

That link is up on an earlier page and the conversation has been focused on Omaha, the MVFC and the arena in Fargo, mainly because of Quinns comments concerning the MVC, The Mighty Dakota Land Grants and how the Summit and MVFC have been in league with new additions.

I agree with you Qinn, especially about it all being moot now, but the addition of USD to the MVFC seems to have indicates something more.

There is speculation that football could return to UNO in the future, maybe when the financial crisis is over or something else fundamentally changes to make it more feasible. Its all conjecture in the wake of UNOs huge surprise.

There is equal speculation that I will be named the starting QB for the Vikings for the 2011 season once this labor thingy is resolved.

[JBB]

Hey trappedinCa, I dont think there is any chance of you playing pro ball during the strike. Lingerie football is going to move to Sundays and that will throw a wet blanket over those plans.

The possibility of UNO starting up football sometime in the future still exists. Its not probable but they do have the tradition and the facilities. Im not sure if any school has dropped the sport only to start it back up again but it is probably a generational thing. Think 20 yrs in the future.

The Summit is just as good as the BSC in basketball, better this year. Not as good as the MVC. With NDSUs arena plans there will never be a MVC invite. I guess we are in the Summit for the long haul with the goal of growing the league to MVC stature or better.

On the other hand, at least according the Qinn, the Mighty Dakota Land Grants are a lock for the MVF if the Summit does start a football league. It will mean raiding the MVFC:

NDSU
SDSU
USD
UNI
WIU
MSU

That leaves the MVFC looking a little thin. Chances near zero now. Its been a fantasy for some time and was really being pushed by UND.

Big surprise never mentioned in the entire speculation surrounding UNO was dropping football and wrestling. Had we known that a lot of speculation could have been skipped. They did join the Summit though and thats a good thing.

[Thundering Herd]

Hey trappedinCa, I dont think there is any chance of you playing pro ball during the strike. Lingerie football is going to move to Sundays and that will throw a wet blanket over those plans.

The possibility of UNO starting up football sometime in the future still exists. Its not probable but they do have the tradition and the facilities. Im not sure if any school has dropped the sport only to start it back up again but it is probably a generational thing. Think 20 yrs in the future.

The Summit is just as good as the BSC in basketball, better this year. Not as good as the MVC. With NDSUs arena plans there will never be a MVC invite. I guess we are in the Summit for the long haul with the goal of growing the league to MVC stature or better.

On the other hand, at least according the Qinn, the Mighty Dakota Land Grants are a lock for the MVF if the Summit does start a football league. It will mean raiding the MVFC:

NDSU
SDSU
USD
UNI
WIU
MSU

That leaves the MVFC looking a little thin. Chances near zero now. Its been a fantasy for some time and was really being pushed by UND.

Big surprise never mentioned in the entire speculation surrounding UNO was dropping football and wrestling. Had we known that a lot of speculation could have been skipped. They did join the Summit though and thats a good thing.

[collegesportsinfo]

Hey trappedinCa, I dont think there is any chance of you playing pro ball during the strike. Lingerie football is going to move to Sundays and that will throw a wet blanket over those plans.

The possibility of UNO starting up football sometime in the future still exists. Its not probable but they do have the tradition and the facilities. Im not sure if any school has dropped the sport only to start it back up again but it is probably a generational thing. Think 20 yrs in the future.

The Summit is just as good as the BSC in basketball, better this year. Not as good as the MVC. With NDSUs arena plans there will never be a MVC invite. I guess we are in the Summit for the long haul with the goal of growing the league to MVC stature or better.

On the other hand, at least according the Qinn, the Mighty Dakota Land Grants are a lock for the MVF if the Summit does start a football league. It will mean raiding the MVFC:

NDSU
SDSU
USD
UNI
WIU
MSU

That leaves the MVFC looking a little thin. Chances near zero now. Its been a fantasy for some time and was really being pushed by UND.

Big surprise never mentioned in the entire speculation surrounding UNO was dropping football and wrestling. Had we known that a lot of speculation could have been skipped. They did join the Summit though and thats a good thing.

Um, not sure how you took what I said, turned it into the complete opposite, and then attributed your reversal to me.

What I've said is that Summit League football has always been an idea built on a house of cards as in it can never happen (as I wrote in September 2010, before all the Sky/MVFC action).

To simplify, that means it would never happen because all the Big Sky would have needed to do was invite SUU and the numebrs would have been down to 5 football members. On the other side, all the MVC needed to do was add NDSU and/or SDSU as full members and THAT conference would have dropped the proposed Summit League football to below 6 members.

Again, to simplify, I was saying Summit League football could never happen.

Fastforward, and SUU did opt to join the Big Sky, which made sense. In doing so, it eliminated the initial proposal for the MVFC to add SUU, UND and USD for 12 members, with UND and USD to the Summit for other sports. And we all know what happened next...USD backed out of their Big Sky invite when the MVFC invited them to be #10 (and to the Summit for other sports).

As ti appeared that UNO was joining the Summit, it looked to everyone that since the school sponsored football, that the Summit/MVFC must be in the works to provide UNO with a football home in the MVFC. And in doing this, it would have meant either A) that the MVFC had reversed it's stance on uneven membership numbers and was fine with UNO as #11. Or B), that the MVFC would bring in UNO and UND for the 11th and 12th spots, with both to the Summit. Fullerton even expressed how there was no penalty for UND if they left this year. He would only have said that publicly if there was at all a chance UND would leave. But nobody seemed to see Option C coming...that UNO would upgrade but drop football. It caught me by surprise and if any of you saw that coming, more power to you.

[collegesportsinfo]

Oh sorry, just re-read your quote.

No, certainly by no means at all a lock that the MVFC would have any interest. They could just as easily invite Butler and aim high at St. Louis (which would likely reject an invite, despite RM clamoring).

But if the MVC members thought they needed to protect their product, then they could have invited 2 Dakota schools HAD the Summit League started football...

But it's all 100% moot since the shoe dropped on the other side: for Summit League football to have even had a shot, regardless of the MVC, it needed SUU to be a member. Once SUU got an invite to it's holy land, the Big Sky, Summit League football was dead.

[JBB]

The new arena will be similar to UNI's, it will be perfect for NDSU basketball.

this.

Any comment on the census data comming out? The FM metro has expanded faster than previously thought. Some indications have growth in excess of 25% in the last 10 years.

This 6,500 seat arean you two geniuses think is perfect, was it planned on 2005 population figures or 2025?

It looks to me 6,500 seats is already obsolete and it hasnt even been built yet.

[Thundering Herd]

this.

Any comment on the census data comming out? The FM metro has expanded faster than previously thought. Some indications have growth in excess of 25% in the last 10 years.

This 6,500 seat arean you two geniuses think is perfect, was it planned on 2005 population figures or 2025?

It looks to me 6,500 seats is already obsolete and it hasnt even been built yet.

JBB, How many sellouts have there been in the past 5 years for NDSU? My guess is not that many. I think the community needs to start showing more support, like they do for football, before a larger facility can be built.

Does anyone know where they are at in the process on the new arena? I haven't been able to find anything since they got the Sanford and Scheels donations.

[JBB]

What about the big game that drew 10,000 that you are so fond of?

[SloStang]

What about the big game that drew 10,000 that you are so fond of?

Wasn't that because the gave out 2,500 free tickets? What is the next highest attended game?

[Thundering Herd]

What about the big game that drew 10,000 that you are so fond of?

That is correct. One game. To me building a 10,000 seat arena for one game doesn't make sense. The FargoDome did just fine for one game.

[dbackjon]

What about the big game that drew 10,000 that you are so fond of?

That is correct. One game. To me building a 10,000 seat arena for one game doesn't make sense. The FargoDome did just fine for one game.

And that is great flexibility NDSU has - if there are big games, play them in the FFFFD.

[Grizalltheway]

That is correct. One game. To me building a 10,000 seat arena for one game doesn't make sense. The FargoDome did just fine for one game.

And that is great flexibility NDSU has - if there are big games, play them in the FFFFD.

Fabulously fucking flatulent frilly Fargo Dome?

[dbackjon]

And that is great flexibility NDSU has - if there are big games, play them in the FFFFD.

Fabulously fucking flatulent frilly Fargo Dome?

Close...

[Thundering Herd]

That is correct. One game. To me building a 10,000 seat arena for one game doesn't make sense. The FargoDome did just fine for one game.

And that is great flexibility NDSU has - if there are big games, play them in the FFFFD.

It's not ideal for a D-1 program. But It's better to have a sold out arena every night with an atmosphere(hopefully ) than a huge palace that is half full for the majority of the games.

[JBB]

Even allowing the artificial nature of that attendance figure, which the good bison fans dismiss, you still have 7,500. 4 - 6,000 will become routine in the next few years. Only thing that can hold the program back from realizing the potential of the market today and into the future is an arena that is woefully undersized.

I didnt look at BB attendance records to determine the trend. I am looking at population, enrollment and the goals NDSU has stated. They want to be in the MVC. In time the Summit will provide the same exposure and fan interest.

We drew more in D2 basketball than we are drawing now (see above figure of 4-6,000). Attendance at the D1 Summit games is growing. Put a hot team on the court, another year or two of rival building combined with familiarity with the league and attendance has a lot of upside. Consider that with growing enrollment, a nicer fan friendly arena and growing promotion of the sport and 6,500 looks inadequate.

>>>>>>>>FACTOID TO CONSIDER<<<<<<<<<<<

6,500 limits the kinds of guarantees you can pay for OOC games.

>>>>>>>>/end thoughtful factoid<<<<<<<<<<

[Thundering Herd]

Even allowing the artificial nature of that attendance figure, which the good bison fans dismiss, you still have 7,500. 4 - 6,000 will become routine in the next few years. Only thing that can hold the program back from realizing the potential of the market today and into the future is an arena that is woefully undersized.

I didnt look at BB attendance records to determine the trend. I am looking at population, enrollment and the goals NDSU has stated. They want to be in the MVC. In time the Summit will provide the same exposure and fan interest.

We drew more in D2 basketball than we are drawing now (see above figure of 4-6,000). Attendance at the D1 Summit games is growing. Put a hot team on the field, another year or two of rival building combined with familiarity with the league and attendance has a lot of upside. Consider that with growing enrollment, a nicer fan friendly arena and growing promotion of the sport and 6,500 looks inadequate.

>>>>>>>>FACTOID TO CONSIDER<<<<<<<<<<<

6,500 limits the kinds of guarantees you can pay for OOC games.

>>>>>>>>/end thoughtful factoid<<<<<<<<<<

They did build the dome with the thought of growth in mind, and now it's up to capacity or close to it for the majority of the games. So you do have a point 20 years down the road, if the metro area keeps growing at this pace.

[JBB]

The FFD is a child of compromise, and a victim of ignorant bison fans.

The lower bowl was to be smaller with the seats laid back at a less radical angle to the field. The second deck would have taken the stadium to the 25,000 + attendace figure. Thats something we need now.

The ignorant bison fans mounted a campaign that they didnt like indoor football. Many refused to attend and talked it down. There was a huge negative push against it, Negatives remain to this day in the form of the "Dome Nazi".

Had it been built to the original plan the lower bowl would have filled up sooner and the stadium would have had earlier success.

If it had been built to plan your points wouldn't exists. Because it is a child of compromise you think you are on to something.

My original question remains unanswered: is 6,500 based on 2005 attendance or is it based on future projections?

[JBB]

That is correct. One game. To me building a 10,000 seat arena for one game doesn't make sense. The FargoDome did just fine for one game.

And that is great flexibility NDSU has - if there are big games, play them in the FFFFD.

If thats the case why build a new arena? NDSU needs 10,000 seats anyway. Not much sense in building a small building for the small games, especially when the goal is increasing attendance over time. Keep the powder dry for the inevitable 30,000 seat outdoor stadium and FBS football. Scale down the BSA remodel and move ahead.

[houndawg]

Even allowing the artificial nature of that attendance figure, which the good bison fans dismiss, you still have 7,500. 4 - 6,000 will become routine in the next few years. Only thing that can hold the program back from realizing the potential of the market today and into the future is an arena that is woefully undersized.

I didnt look at BB attendance records to determine the trend. I am looking at population, enrollment and the goals NDSU has stated. They want to be in the MVC. In time the Summit will provide the same exposure and fan interest.

We drew more in D2 basketball than we are drawing now (see above figure of 4-6,000). Attendance at the D1 Summit games is growing. Put a hot team on the court, another year or two of rival building combined with familiarity with the league and attendance has a lot of upside. Consider that with growing enrollment, a nicer fan friendly arena and growing promotion of the sport and 6,500 looks inadequate.

>>>>>>>>FACTOID TO CONSIDER<<<<<<<<<<<

6,500 limits the kinds of guarantees you can pay for OOC games.

>>>>>>>>/end thoughtful factoid<<<<<<<<<<

Many are called, few are chosen.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

dude - you still haven't answered the damn question

since we moved up - how many sellouts in football?
in basketball?

your projections for growth in the area only hold up if some farmer in Casselton finds gold or oil... if you keep with the 20 year trend - there still won't be shit for people living in the valley (on the American side) in 20 years...

the bison have the football stadium they need for at least the next 15 years. i'd rather have a stadium over capacity for a few years than play in a half-empty mausoleum.

[JBB]

A lot, especially in Football. Attendance records have been set in both sports dude!

Football attendance has been at all time highs since we opened our first FCS game with the Valpo sell-out.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

A lot, especially in Football. Attendance records have been set in both sports dude!

Football attendance has been at all time highs since we opened our first FCS game with the Valpo sell-out.

NUMBER OF SELLOUTS SINCE D-I... since you STILL didn't answer the question

I'll be generous and call a sellout 18,500 or more...

2010 - WIU
2009 - Ill St.
2008 - Austin Peay, CCSU, SIU
2007 - UC Davis, SHSU, SFA (the year we went 10-0 until Brookings...)
2006 - SDSU

that's 9 sellouts in 5 seasons. and if you take only 19,000 or more as a sellout... we've sold out 2 - that's right 2 games( SDSU in 06 and Austin Peay in 08)

average attendance, while growing - still isn't near 18k...
we averaged 16,500 for 2010 - that's 2,500 UNDER capacity. with a team vying for - and then playing in the playoffs.

[JBB]

Valpo was an announced sellout.

Aug. 28, 2004

On his opening touchdown
"The guy that got me the block was Tyler Roehl. It was fourth and one, and I was just going for short yards. But when you see a whole like that, you have to hit it."

On the anticipation of the first game
"It was a packed house, almost 19,000. I was jacked right away. I had to calm myself down because I was losing my energy getting all hyped up."

16,500 is 90% of capacity playing against FCS competition.

The stadium is already too small. Its just a matter of time now. When season ticket sales go over the 60% mark talk will start on a new stadium if the economy is healthy. I imagine you will speak out against it?

[Thundering Herd]

Valpo was an announced sellout.

Aug. 28, 2004

On his opening touchdown
"The guy that got me the block was Tyler Roehl. It was fourth and one, and I was just going for short yards. But when you see a whole like that, you have to hit it."

On the anticipation of the first game
"It was a packed house, almost 19,000. I was jacked right away. I had to calm myself down because I was losing my energy getting all hyped up."

16,500 is 90% of capacity playing against FCS competition.

The stadium is already too small. Its just a matter of time now. When season ticket sales go over the 60% mark talk will start on a new stadium if the economy is healthy. I imagine you will speak out against it?

Thanks for answering the question TwinTown. JBB, I'd like to know one other bison fan that thinks the dome is too small. Ive been to every D1 home game and it is much better to have it sellout than have half of the stadium full like the playoff game last year. That is what a new stadium would be like. Yes the city will grow, but we should consider trying to sellout every game in one season first.

The title of this thread still makes me laugh.