The Summit Owns the MVFC

[Fresno St. Alum]

Well there's the Fresno route. We had a good basketball team during the Tark era and played in a 10,220 off campus arena. Tark gets an on campus 16,500 seat arena built and retired. Now we've sucked for 9 years and the place is empty 1,200 fans in a 16,500 arena

Start small if you build a consistent winner then go bigger.

[JBB]

Dont confuse cause and effect. It wasnt the arena that ruined the program, the program ruined the arena.

Some clown nose said I wanted to build big 10 facilities. Look at the arenas Clenz posted. All ten thousand seats or more. Those are typical MVC arenas not 6,500. This is the last BB arena NDSU will build for a generation. I sure hope clown talk doesnt rule the day in favor of good, sound planning for the future.

[eaglesfootball]

I sure hope clown talk doesnt rule the day in favor of good, sound planning for the future.

I would have thought Lakes would be all for your idea.

[JBB]

More clown talk from one of bill fettes children. On to the issue:

There are a lot of folks in favor of a bigger arena. Shortsightedness is a real concern for those that look back 10 years and see a city and University that have doubled in size with no signs of that growth slowing. Planners should be looking at a 20,000 student NDSU and a 300,000 metro area.

I for one would rather see the arena wait a year or two to raise the funds to build it to a proper scale than have the desire to get a new arena right now result in a facility that will have a much shorter functional and useful life.

Look at the typical facility Clenz posted. Those are D1 facilities. 6,500 might be adequate for D2, or even the program as we find it now, but it wont facilitate the on-going growth we are experiencing.

[JBB]

As things stand now the Summit is going to be the home of NDSU basketball for a long time to come. Its a better conference for NDSU than the MVC for a lot of reasons. It appears the Summit is making a strong move to occupy the north central region where there is a void. Thats good, especially since the MVFC is there as well and finds itself in a rather unexpected partnership with the Summit (watch for the Gateway and Summit divisions in the MVFC).

The BB arena being planned in Fargo might be good for the Summit now but the Summit is going to grow, get stronger and attract a lot more fan support in the coming years. I dont think a 6,500 seat BB area in Fargo will be adequate for 10 yrs much less the typical expected life of similar building of 30 years.

It only makes sense to scale the facility for the last 15 years of that cycle not the first 15.

[clenz]

Um....UNI was in the S16 last season and a 7200 seat arena was plenty big for the majority of the season and all of this season.

I would bet 6500 would be plenty big for NDSU unless they somehow hit a S16 run and start the season 15-0 or something like that.

[JBB]

Short sighted? The trend is your friend. D2 basketball averaged larger crowds than we are getting now but things are changing. Dont build an arena based on last years data build on the projections for 15 years out.

[SloStang]

Short sighted? The trend is your friend. D2 basketball averaged larger crowds than we are getting now but things are changing. Dont build an arena based on last years data build on the projections for 15 years out.

I think JBB has a point. The Fargo Dome is a good example. Most people thought they were over building with a 19,000 seat stadium. Now they wish they had gone bigger or had one that was easier to expand. It now limits there options should they want to move up at some point.

I think he is a little off on the Summit vs MVC. I think NDSU would take an invite to the MVC without a moments hesitation.

[houndawg]

Short sighted? The trend is your friend. D2 basketball averaged larger crowds than we are getting now but things are changing. Dont build an arena based on last years data build on the projections for 15 years out.

I think JBB has a point. The Fargo Dome is a good example. Most people thought they were over building with a 19,000 seat stadium. Now they wish they had gone bigger or had one that was easier to expand. It now limits there options should they want to move up at some point.

I think he is a little off on the Summit vs MVC. I think NDSU would take an invite to the MVC without a moments hesitation.

It would be an enormous step up for them, no doubt about that.

[JBB]

I dont disagree. NDSU has said as much about the MVC. In the meantime NDSU is committed to making the Summit as strong and viable as possible. As the conference grows the MVC might start to lose some luster. It looks good now but future events with the Summit could make the MVC a moot point.

The Summit is making a big play and the reversal of the MVFC position on expansion with the USD invite tells me something. There is something going on between the conferences.

Somehow the Summit has found leverage. It could be the threat of Summit football and they might be applying the muscle, as I have suggested. There also may be an awakening at the MVFC head offices.

The business model for a strong conference is changing. Growth is the name of the game. The WAC wasnt ready and poof, they are losing. Looking to the future the Summit can help the MVFC in attracting new members like UNO by using the hole card: MVFC membership. Helps both conferences.

[houndawg]

I dont disagree. NDSU has said as much about the MVC. In the meantime NDSU is committed to making the Summit as strong and viable as possible. As the conference grows the MVC might start to lose some luster. It looks good now but future events with the Summit could make the MVC a moot point.

The Summit is making a big play and the reversal of the MVFC position on expansion with the USD invite tells me something. There is something going on between the conferences.

Somehow the Summit has found leverage. It could be the threat of Summit football and they might be applying the muscle, as I have suggested. There also may be an awakening at the MVFC head offices.

The business model for a strong conference is changing. Growth is the name of the game. The WAC wasnt ready and poof, they are losing. Looking to the future the Summit can help the MVFC in attracting new members like UNO by using the hole card: MVFC membership. Helps both conferences.

Don't need UNO and it was a mistake to bring in USD.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

A more apt comparison:

Summit League Facilities
IPFW



giant - off campus multi-purpose arena - primarily for the Fort Wayne Pistons of the NBA in the 50's

IUPUI



capacity 2,200 (my high school had a better setup for BB)

UMKC



Swinney Rec - capacity 2,300 (they play "big games" off campus at the old KC Aud)

Oakland



4,500 seats.

Oral Roberts



10k plus - but ORU has no football and is a perennial power in hoops (plus they have crazy wealthy foundation and alumni money as well as church televangelism money pouring in to it)

SDSU



capacity 5,500

WIU



Western Hall - 5,100

left Centenary off as they are going D-III

Point being - we're in the Summit - not the MVC (and we aren't getting an all-sports invite to the MVC)
The proposed new arena would be PERFECT for where the program is headed. (better to have a shortage - than to play in an empty-ass barn)

[JBB]

If all NDSU wanted to do was be on par with the rest of the Summit we could just use the BSA as it is now. If we are building for the future we had better look at something that will take us where we want to go, even if that means we have the best facility in the league. 10,000 is the magic number. 6,500 is a waste of money.

Maybe houndawg thinks USD was a mistake but they are in. Something is motivating the MVFC. I believe UNO is a lock too.

[Thundering Herd]

If all NDSU wanted to do was be on par with the rest of the Summit we could just use the BSA as it is now. If we are building for the future we had better look at something that will take us where we want to go, even if that means we have the best facility in the league. 10,000 is the magic number. 6,500 is a waste of money.

Maybe houndawg thinks USD was a mistake but they are in. Something is motivating the MVFC. I believe UNO is a lock too.

If they were to build an area that was big enough to hold 10k, they couldn't use their current plan of gutting the BSA. They would have to tear down the whole building a start from scratch. Which would obvisously be a lot more money.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

If all NDSU wanted to do was be on par with the rest of the Summit we could just use the BSA as it is now. If we are building for the future we had better look at something that will take us where we want to go, even if that means we have the best facility in the league. 10,000 is the magic number. 6,500 is a waste of money.

Maybe houndawg thinks USD was a mistake but they are in. Something is motivating the MVFC. I believe UNO is a lock too.

If they were to build an area that was big enough to hold 10k, they couldn't use their current plan of gutting the BSA. They would have to tear down the whole building a start from scratch. Which would obvisously be a lot more money.

I miss the "add on to the dome plan"

[Thundering Herd]

If they were to build an area that was big enough to hold 10k, they couldn't use their current plan of gutting the BSA. They would have to tear down the whole building a start from scratch. Which would obvisously be a lot more money.

I miss the "add on to the dome plan"

Same here. What ever happened to that idea?

[Cap'n Cat]

I miss the "add on to the dome plan"

Same here. What ever happened to that idea?

Well, you azzholes lost to UNI three years in a row and donors figgered right then that there weren't no use in competing with them....in anything.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

I miss the "add on to the dome plan"

Same here. What ever happened to that idea?

shelved - too much $ i guess...

[FargoBison]

What happened to the dome plan? The great recession killed it.

[JBB]

There may be physical constraints to more seats than 6,500, I dont know. The Dome Authority took their 50 million to the sideline. Its being preserved for a new outdoor stadium. The Fabulous Fargo Dome will be converted to hockey and I guess the "Big" BB games will be held in the FFD or there might be a more suitable BB arena built with the football stadium.

[D1B]

I'm not gonna lie it's kind of funny

in the same way that D1B's "cry for attention" threads are in the lounge...

Cry? You cant get enough of me.

[houndawg]

There may be physical constraints to more seats than 6,500, I dont know. The Dome Authority took their 50 million to the sideline. Its being preserved for a new outdoor stadium. The Fabulous Fargo Dome will be converted to hockey and I guess the "Big" BB games will be held in the FFD or there might be a more suitable BB arena built with the football stadium.

Big BB games in Fargo?

[collegesportsinfo]

The Summit has a legitimate threat to start its own football league. Unfortunately to do that the MVFC would be decimated. With the apparent addition of UNO to the Summit the threat grows larger.

Inexplicably USD was admitted to the MVFC taking it off what had been the magic number of 9. I think the threat of Summit football was the leverage. The addition of USD to the Summit made the threat even more credible, enough so for the MVFC to invite USD.

With UNO apparently on the verge of a Summit invite the MVFC is once again being faced with the specter of Summit football. Is UNO going to the MVFC? Its a lock. The NCC rules the MVFC and the Summit.

Its a legacy!! The MVFC and the Summit are de-facto twin leagues, far more than the MVFC and MVC.

Not a chance. Summit Football has always been an idea built on a house of cards.

First you had SUU, UND and USD that could have joined to give them 6 members. But we knew SUU wanted the Big Sky (regionally makes sense) so the Summit couldn't do it or risk dropping to 5 members with NO replacement options.

On the other side, you have the MVFC. If the Summit even had 6 members, say UNO hadn't dropped football, you'd still have only 6. But guess what? The MVC is still the ideal home for all Summit members...it's a step up. So if the Summit even TRIED to start football, the MVC could just say, "cool...hey NDSU and SDSU...wanna join the MVC as full members? Yes, great, welcome.". And then the MVC would be safe and the Summit down to 4 members.

It's all moot with no UNO football and with SUU gone. Even if UND were convinced, it would be 5 members. And the threat of the MVC inviting 2 Dakota schools for all sports will always keep Summit League football as an impossible option.

[Trapped in CA]

Not to confuse the original point of this thread, but UNO is proposing to join the Summit AND drop football in the process. Thanks for the scoop.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20110314/N ... 03149910/0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[JBB]

That link is up on an earlier page and the conversation has been focused on Omaha, the MVFC and the arena in Fargo, mainly because of Quinns comments concerning the MVC, The Mighty Dakota Land Grants and how the Summit and MVFC have been in league with new additions.

I agree with you Qinn, especially about it all being moot now, but the addition of USD to the MVFC seems to have indicates something more.

There is speculation that football could return to UNO in the future, maybe when the financial crisis is over or something else fundamentally changes to make it more feasible. Its all conjecture in the wake of UNOs huge surprise.