BlueHen86 wrote:
Except that Jaworski played back when defenses were allowed to cover the receivers and the QB's didn't wear skirts.
Brady is great (and belongs in the discussion of the best of all time), but it's hard to compare because he's not playing by the same rules that the older guys did.
I still say Joe Montana is the best QB I ever watched. I'd also take Elway and Marino ahead of Brady.
Elway?
Yeah Elway.
Didn't the Pats go 11-5 without Brady a couple of years ago? Makes me think that Brady has a pretty good team around him, probably better than many of the Bronco teams that supported Elway.
UNHWildCats wrote:
Are you referring to Cunningham, Jaworski or McNabb, not that it matters cause not a one of those three comes close to Brady.
Except that Jaworski played back when defenses were allowed to cover the receivers and the QB's didn't wear skirts.
Brady is great (and belongs in the discussion of the best of all time), but it's hard to compare because he's not playing by the same rules that the older guys did.
I still say Joe Montana is the best QB I ever watched. I'd also take Elway and Marino ahead of Brady.
Fucking ripping the tits off of it again with clarity. He is the best female playing though. You can't compare him to the men that came before him however.
Didn't the Pats go 11-5 without Brady a couple of years ago? Makes me think that Brady has a pretty good team around him, probably better than many of the Bronco teams that supported Elway.
Maybe the fact that Matt Cassel was the QB that season they went 11-5 had a lot to do with it... You know Cassel is a pretty good QB... He did afterall just lead the Chiefs to the playoffs.
Didn't the Pats go 11-5 without Brady a couple of years ago? Makes me think that Brady has a pretty good team around him, probably better than many of the Bronco teams that supported Elway.
Maybe the fact that Matt Cassel was the QB that season they went 11-5 had a lot to do with it... You know Cassel is a pretty good QB... He did afterall just lead the Chiefs to the playoffs.
He was 4-11 last year and this year the Chiefs were 30th in passing. It's more like the Chiefs led him to the playoffs.
UNHWildCats wrote:
Maybe the fact that Matt Cassel was the QB that season they went 11-5 had a lot to do with it... You know Cassel is a pretty good QB... He did afterall just lead the Chiefs to the playoffs.
He was 4-11 last year and this year the Chiefs were 30th in passing. It's more like the Chiefs led him to the playoffs.
27 TD 7 INT... pretty good ratio... The yardage numbers dont compare to Brady or Brees or Rivers cause they dont need to... But Cassel is still a damn good QB.
UNHWildCats wrote:
Maybe the fact that Matt Cassel was the QB that season they went 11-5 had a lot to do with it... You know Cassel is a pretty good QB... He did afterall just lead the Chiefs to the playoffs.
He was 4-11 last year and this year the Chiefs were 30th in passing. It's more like the Chiefs led him to the playoffs.
Also total passing offense is a flawed way to look at a team. The Pats were 11th in total passing offense this year, but no one could argue Brady wasnt the best QB... the stat favors teams with no running game or who are always playing from behind and have to pass more.
SuperHornet wrote:
Um, no. Try Van Brocklin, who actually won a championship with the Eagles.
Good QB to compare as of right now both had played a similar amount of games. And I know the game is different now but still I dont see much of an argument here.. Brady is the clear better QB
Games: Brady 145, VB 140
Comp %: Brady 63.6%, VB 53.6%
TD/INT: Brady 261/103, VB 173/178
QB Rating: Brady 95.2, VB 75.1
Yards: Brady 34,744, VB 23,611
Championships: Brady 3, VB 1
Once again, a modern elitist takes stats out of context. Consider the following:
1. Most offensive game plans were run-heavy back in The Dutchman's era. You can either add about a third to VB's numbers or drop a third from Brady's.
2. Van spent his entire career with LA sharing the job with either Waterfield (early) or Wade (late), a common practice back then. Can you imagine Brady subitting to that? You can easily assume increased numbers for Van had his coaches used a modern PT-distribution philosophy.
3. You misquote Van's championships. He won in 1951 with LA and played in two others with LA (losing both to the Browns).
Given a modern offensive and PT-distribution philosophy, Van wins.
SuperHornet's Athletics Hall of Fame includes Jacksonville State kicker Ashley Martin, the first girl to score in a Division I football game. She kicked 3 PATs in a 2001 game for J-State.
Good QB to compare as of right now both had played a similar amount of games. And I know the game is different now but still I dont see much of an argument here.. Brady is the clear better QB
Games: Brady 145, VB 140
Comp %: Brady 63.6%, VB 53.6%
TD/INT: Brady 261/103, VB 173/178
QB Rating: Brady 95.2, VB 75.1
Yards: Brady 34,744, VB 23,611
Championships: Brady 3, VB 1
Once again, a modern elitist takes stats out of context. Consider the following:
1. Most offensive game plans were run-heavy back in The Dutchman's era. You can either add about a third to VB's numbers or drop a third from Brady's.
2. Van spent his entire career with LA sharing the job with either Waterfield (early) or Wade (late), a common practice back then. Can you imagine Brady subitting to that? You can easily assume increased numbers for Van had his coaches used a modern PT-distribution philosophy.
3. You misquote Van's championships. He won in 1951 with LA and played in two others with LA (losing both to the Browns).
Given a modern offensive and PT-distribution philosophy, Van wins.
Even adding a third more to his stats he still has no argument... his TDs would increase to around 233, still behind Brady. His INTs would also increase to around 238 which would be 130 more than Brady. Completion % would change. Yardage would be about equal with Brady having about 2K yard advantage. Brady still would have a completion % 10 points higher and a rating 15 points higher, but I guess since those arent raw passing numbers they dont matter.
BlueHen86 wrote:
He was 4-11 last year and this year the Chiefs were 30th in passing. It's more like the Chiefs led him to the playoffs.
27 TD 7 INT... pretty good ratio... The yardage numbers dont compare to Brady or Brees or Rivers cause they dont need to... But Cassel is still a damn good QB.
He has a losing record with the Chiefs and a winning record with the Pats. Like I said earlier, the Pats are a pretty good team no matter who is playing QB. Compared to Brady, Elway did more with less, as did Marino.
UNHWildCats wrote:
27 TD 7 INT... pretty good ratio... The yardage numbers dont compare to Brady or Brees or Rivers cause they dont need to... But Cassel is still a damn good QB.
He has a losing record with the Chiefs and a winning record with the Pats. Like I said earlier, the Pats are a pretty good team no matter who is playing QB. Compared to Brady, Elway did more with less, as did Marino.
Yes he had a bad first season in KC... but thats common for players in any sport when joining a new team, more so for a QB who has to learn a new offense and get a chemistry with the new players around him. In 2008 he knew the offense and the players around him, he had a chemistry with them even if it were just as a backup QB.
Everyone is always quick to say Brady is what he is because of the system he plays in. But why is it that before Belichick and Brady came together Belichick had a 41-55 career record? Only one winning season in 6 tries?
And as for saying Brady has a great team around him?
Look what he did in 2006 with this group of receivers...
Wide Receivers
* 80 Troy Brown PR
* 87 Reche Caldwell
* 13 Bam Childress
* 10 Jabar Gaffney
* 17 Chad Jackson R
* 19 Kelvin Kight
Tight Ends
* 82 Daniel Graham
* 86 David Thomas R
* 84 Benjamin Watson
12-4 record
61.8 completion %
24 TD
3529 yards
And had the lead in the AFC Championship with 1:42 left
2001 was much of the same... talent or not Brady has done nothing but put up great numbers and win win win
BlueHen86 wrote:
He has a losing record with the Chiefs and a winning record with the Pats. Like I said earlier, the Pats are a pretty good team no matter who is playing QB. Compared to Brady, Elway did more with less, as did Marino.
Yes he had a bad first season in KC... but thats common for players in any sport when joining a new team, more so for a QB who has to learn a new offense and get a chemistry with the new players around him. In 2008 he knew the offense and the players around him, he had a chemistry with them even if it were just as a backup QB.
Everyone is always quick to say Brady is what he is because of the system he plays in. But why is it that before Belichick and Brady came together Belichick had a 41-55 career record? Only one winning season in 6 tries?
And as for saying Brady has a great team around him?
Look what he did in 2006 with this group of receivers...
Wide Receivers
* 80 Troy Brown PR
* 87 Reche Caldwell
* 13 Bam Childress
* 10 Jabar Gaffney
* 17 Chad Jackson R
* 19 Kelvin Kight
Tight Ends
* 82 Daniel Graham
* 86 David Thomas R
* 84 Benjamin Watson
12-4 record
61.8 completion %
24 TD
3529 yards
And had the lead in the AFC Championship with 1:42 left
2001 was much of the same... talent or not Brady has done nothing but put up great numbers and win win win
And the Pats went 11-5 with out him. Seems like it's the Pats that win and win and win. It's not Brady that wins, it's the spying.
UNHWildCats wrote:
Yes he had a bad first season in KC... but thats common for players in any sport when joining a new team, more so for a QB who has to learn a new offense and get a chemistry with the new players around him. In 2008 he knew the offense and the players around him, he had a chemistry with them even if it were just as a backup QB.
Everyone is always quick to say Brady is what he is because of the system he plays in. But why is it that before Belichick and Brady came together Belichick had a 41-55 career record? Only one winning season in 6 tries?
And as for saying Brady has a great team around him?
Look what he did in 2006 with this group of receivers...
Wide Receivers
* 80 Troy Brown PR
* 87 Reche Caldwell
* 13 Bam Childress
* 10 Jabar Gaffney
* 17 Chad Jackson R
* 19 Kelvin Kight
Tight Ends
* 82 Daniel Graham
* 86 David Thomas R
* 84 Benjamin Watson
12-4 record
61.8 completion %
24 TD
3529 yards
And had the lead in the AFC Championship with 1:42 left
2001 was much of the same... talent or not Brady has done nothing but put up great numbers and win win win
And the Pats went 11-5 with out him. Seems like it's the Pats that win and win and win. It's not Brady that wins, it's the spying.
Ain't that the truth!
SuperHornet's Athletics Hall of Fame includes Jacksonville State kicker Ashley Martin, the first girl to score in a Division I football game. She kicked 3 PATs in a 2001 game for J-State.
