GrizFanStuckInUtah wrote:I'm not going to argue with anyone not putting Montana in the top 25 at this point. If we win a few games, we should get back up there in the 25 and I still think we have a playoff caliber team, we just need to prove it on the field.
Exactly, Griz will wind up in the polls where they belong. Or they'll be out if they lose to Sac State. It works itself out. Just frustrating to see terrible logical arguments for why someone's favorite team should be in the poll. From me as well as from everyone else.
GrizFanStuckInUtah wrote:I'm not going to argue with anyone not putting Montana in the top 25 at this point. If we win a few games, we should get back up there in the 25 and I still think we have a playoff caliber team, we just need to prove it on the field.
Exactly, Griz will wind up in the polls where they belong. Or they'll be out if they lose to Sac State. It works itself out. Just frustrating to see terrible logical arguments for why someone's favorite team should be in the poll. From me as well as from everyone else.
That's where you are off track. I don't think AZ had MT in his poll, I had MT barely hanging on at 25. This is not lobbying for YOU to rank the Griz at all...it's about using more than just the wins and losses to gauge things. If you don't want to discuss the philosophy then that's fine by me but that's all AZ was doing here.
Well if you fill out your poll with what you think are THE best 25 teams in the nation, I think they should be in there. If it's a performance metric where you slide teams up and down depending on how they do each week, then probably not.
With philosophy one, I think you're crazy putting someone like Alabama State above us
Silenoz wrote:Well if you fill out your poll with what you think are THE best 25 teams in the nation, I think they should be in there. If it's a performance metric where you slide teams up and down depending on how they do each week, then probably not.
With philosophy one, I think you're crazy putting someone like Alabama State above us
With philosophy two, it makes perfect sense
What's it supposed to be then? Because the Griz would be in my top 15 if it was just "who are the best teams".
But I thought the poll was supposed to be a measure of where everyone currently sits based on what they've done this season.
I had Montana ranked about halfway through the list...mostly because the games were close and both teams are good (I had Cal Poly in my pre-season top 25 and EWU was my pre-season #10) and I go by my rankings through the season and not the ones that are published when comparing these polls week-to-week. If we lose next week, even though I have Sac State ranked right now, then I'll drop us off completely...unless its something like an OT field goal difference...in which case I'd probably drop us to 25 or something. Most of the teams in that same grouping were having similar issues this season and it was hard to justify putting teams like McNeese State...who beat Lamar by all of 3 points and was blown out by Missouri...in two games they've shown nothing...the Missouri game can be thrown away, but the Lamar win doesn't exactly instill me with a lot of confidence.
Sac State I threw in at #24...any higher would be a stretch and they were in a cluster of schools for me.
Liberty I dropped out...losing to Robert Morris is hilarious to me...I expect they'll be back in next week, but they get a one week hiatus from my list as a penalty for a god awful game.
As for what the rankings are...I use it as a mix of power rankings (what they've proven this year) and as a best team thing. All 1-2s are not created equal, just as all 3-0s aren't the same. Alabama State hasn't beat anyone of note...I'm not ranking them just because they have a pretty number in the standings right now. If Montana, Sac State, or Liberty were to play Alabama State I would bet they'd all win.
Last edited by Big McLargehuge on Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Silenoz wrote:Well if you fill out your poll with what you think are THE best 25 teams in the nation, I think they should be in there. If it's a performance metric where you slide teams up and down depending on how they do each week, then probably not.
With philosophy one, I think you're crazy putting someone like Alabama State above us
With philosophy two, it makes perfect sense
What's it supposed to be then? Because the Griz would be in my top 15 if it was just "who are the best teams".
But I thought the poll was supposed to be a measure of where everyone currently sits based on what they've done this season.
ToTheLeft wrote:
Exactly, Griz will wind up in the polls where they belong. Or they'll be out if they lose to Sac State. It works itself out. Just frustrating to see terrible logical arguments for why someone's favorite team should be in the poll. From me as well as from everyone else.
That's where you are off track. I don't think AZ had MT in his poll, I had MT barely hanging on at 25. This is not lobbying for YOU to rank the Griz at all...it's about using more than just the wins and losses to gauge things. If you don't want to discuss the philosophy then that's fine by me but that's all AZ was doing here.
Well, that's why I asked to see his poll. Because frankly I don't get what he's trying to say and would love to see a poll done "his way". If the poll is about who we think the best teams are and who would win a game, Griz stay top 15 all year. But like I said, I thought the poll was about taking a "snapshot" of the current scene and ranking who the best teams are based on what was done on the field. And you do that based on wins, losses, and who you won against and lost to and how good/bad they are. Not "oh, well, everyone knows Griz could beat them". It's not a snapshot of what's going on in FCS football right now. It's conjecture and it's not even 100% true. You never know what could happen in a football game, so to just say "I think this team could beat this team so I'll rank them higher" seems to defeat the purpose of a poll. I thought it was about what you've done, not about what you could do. Am I wrong? If I am I'll make some changes as to how I do things.
Big McLargehuge wrote:
Liberty I dropped out...losing to Robert Morris is hilarious to me...I expect they'll be back in next week, but they get a one week hiatus from my list as a penalty for a god awful game.
I was tempted to as well. But we did have 2 DI wins, one over a bad FBS. And RMU might be a playoff team. A one-and-done playoff team, but a playoff team.
Silenoz wrote:Well if you fill out your poll with what you think are THE best 25 teams in the nation, I think they should be in there. If it's a performance metric where you slide teams up and down depending on how they do each week, then probably not.
With philosophy one, I think you're crazy putting someone like Alabama State above us
With philosophy two, it makes perfect sense
What's it supposed to be then? Because the Griz would be in my top 15 if it was just "who are the best teams".
But I thought the poll was supposed to be a measure of where everyone currently sits based on what they've done this season.
Am I that far off?
I think it's just combining the two things and making a judgment based on what you think. At least, that's what I do.
Big McLargehuge wrote:
Liberty I dropped out...losing to Robert Morris is hilarious to me...I expect they'll be back in next week, but they get a one week hiatus from my list as a penalty for a god awful game.
I was tempted to as well. But we did have 2 DI wins, one over a bad FBS. And RMU might be a playoff team. A one-and-done playoff team, but a playoff team.
If Robert Morris is a playoff team I'll eat the proverbial hat. I say this as a Pittsburgher who wishes RMU and Duquesne well every week.
I was tempted to keep them in because of the two earlier games this year, but as I said its just a hiatus for me. If they lose again then I'll keep them out, obviously, but I expect they'll be back out in my list next year. I think that loss, just as much for how bad Liberty played as much as the opposition, was worthy of the drop from me.
If Montana's losses had been bad losses then I'd have dropped them much further than I did...they're still tumbling down my rankings at a pretty fast speed and need a statement game this week to re-instill confidence.
ToTheLeft wrote:
I was tempted to as well. But we did have 2 DI wins, one over a bad FBS. And RMU might be a playoff team. A one-and-done playoff team, but a playoff team.
If Robert Morris is a playoff team I'll eat the proverbial hat. I say this as a Pittsburgher who wishes RMU and Duquesne well every week.
I was tempted to keep them in because of the two earlier games this year, but as I said its just a hiatus for me. If they lose again then I'll keep them out, obviously, but I expect they'll be back out in my list next year. I think that loss, just as much for how bad Liberty played as much as the opposition, was worthy of the drop from me.
If Montana's losses had been bad losses then I'd have dropped them much further than I did...they're still tumbling down my rankings at a pretty fast speed and need a statement game this week to re-instill confidence.
Well, next week is JMU so there is a good chance we don't wind up in the McLargeHuge poll for another few weeks.
And yeah, UM hasn't lost bad. But they haven't won good either. It's a tough place to be and I can see why people rank them, but I tend to lean towards wins of any kind against a DI opponent meaning more than a close loss or a "good" loss. Bad losses still have their impact, just have to balance it out.
Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:
That's where you are off track. I don't think AZ had MT in his poll, I had MT barely hanging on at 25. This is not lobbying for YOU to rank the Griz at all...it's about using more than just the wins and losses to gauge things. If you don't want to discuss the philosophy then that's fine by me but that's all AZ was doing here.
Well, that's why I asked to see his poll. Because frankly I don't get what he's trying to say and would love to see a poll done "his way". If the poll is about who we think the best teams are and who would win a game, Griz stay top 15 all year. But like I said, I thought the poll was about taking a "snapshot" of the current scene and ranking who the best teams are based on what was done on the field. And you do that based on wins, losses, and who you won against and lost to and how good/bad they are. Not "oh, well, everyone knows Griz could beat them". It's not a snapshot of what's going on in FCS football right now. It's conjecture and it's not even 100% true. You never know what could happen in a football game, so to just say "I think this team could beat this team so I'll rank them higher" seems to defeat the purpose of a poll. I thought it was about what you've done, not about what you could do. Am I wrong? If I am I'll make some changes as to how I do things.
See that line TTL? I've tried several times to tell you now that is a small part of it that I use as a coin flip type of thing when I'm having trouble positioning teams. AZ does that same thing from what I've gathered. You keep bringing it up as if it's the ONLY criteria or even the main criteria that he is trying to get across. It isn't, I ain't gonna say it again so to move the conversation forward let's not cover that ground anymore.
You ain't doing anything wrong so stop asking that as it's YOUR opinion on how you rank them. We're just discussing different philosophies here and it's not a big deal because each and every one of us will get our polls picked apart by someone that has a different strategy.
I like where you start with the snapshot thing but then I just go a little farther and look at if I have a team in there with the snapshot that seems to not be nearly as good as other teams that I would keep out even though I think they are better. That's when I staart making the comparisons of which team I THINK would win if a game were played.
Silenoz wrote:Well if you fill out your poll with what you think are THE best 25 teams in the nation, I think they should be in there. If it's a performance metric where you slide teams up and down depending on how they do each week, then probably not.
With philosophy one, I think you're crazy putting someone like Alabama State above us
With philosophy two, it makes perfect sense
What's it supposed to be then? Because the Griz would be in my top 15 if it was just "who are the best teams".
But I thought the poll was supposed to be a measure of where everyone currently sits based on what they've done this season.
Am I that far off?
No, most polls/ballots seem to use the second philosophy. I try to do a mix but mostly focus on the first
Silenoz wrote:Well if you fill out your poll with what you think are THE best 25 teams in the nation, I think they should be in there. If it's a performance metric where you slide teams up and down depending on how they do each week, then probably not.
With philosophy one, I think you're crazy putting someone like Alabama State above us
With philosophy two, it makes perfect sense
What's it supposed to be then? Because the Griz would be in my top 15 if it was just "who are the best teams".
But I thought the poll was supposed to be a measure of where everyone currently sits based on what they've done this season.
Am I that far off?
to each his own, TTL. To each his own...
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
ToTheLeft wrote:I tend to lean towards wins of any kind against a DI opponent meaning more than a close loss or a "good" loss. Bad losses still have their impact, just have to balance it out.
And this is where we disagree, fundamentally. An 0-2 CAA team with close losses to Villanova and JMU is lightyears better than a 2-0 NEC team with blowout victories over Bryant and Monmouth.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Big McLargehuge wrote:
If Robert Morris is a playoff team I'll eat the proverbial hat. I say this as a Pittsburgher who wishes RMU and Duquesne well every week.
I was tempted to keep them in because of the two earlier games this year, but as I said its just a hiatus for me. If they lose again then I'll keep them out, obviously, but I expect they'll be back out in my list next year. I think that loss, just as much for how bad Liberty played as much as the opposition, was worthy of the drop from me.
If Montana's losses had been bad losses then I'd have dropped them much further than I did...they're still tumbling down my rankings at a pretty fast speed and need a statement game this week to re-instill confidence.
Well, next week is JMU so there is a good chance we don't wind up in the McLargeHuge poll for another few weeks.
D'oh! I forgot about that...a close loss would probably get them back in.
It did, and I started typing out my defense of it, but it wasn't worth it.
Basically, I was saying that wins come before close losses in terms of figuring out who ranks where. I never said close losses can't be a good thing in terms of where you are in the polls.
Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:
It did make ya think about it though didn't it?
It did, and I started typing out my defense of it, but it wasn't worth it.
Basically, I was saying that wins come before close losses in terms of figuring out who ranks where. I never said close losses can't be a good thing in terms of where you are in the polls.
Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:
It did make ya think about it though didn't it?
It did, and I started typing out my defense of it, but it wasn't worth it.
Basically, I was saying that wins come before close losses in terms of figuring out who ranks where. I never said close losses can't be a good thing in terms of where you are in the polls.
which is precisely why I still have Montana ranked #4 in my poll.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
ToTheLeft wrote:
It did, and I started typing out my defense of it, but it wasn't worth it.
Basically, I was saying that wins come before close losses in terms of figuring out who ranks where. I never said close losses can't be a good thing in terms of where you are in the polls.
which is precisely why I still have Montana ranked #4 in my poll.
