Catholic Church and having babies

[mebison]

Catholics are officially ok with 'natural family planning', right? Honest question, just curious.

Agree that it sounds pretty fishy and, as described, the priest sounds out of line. I know enough people who *can't* have kids, and wouldn't really want to go around saying it, to say the priest has no business harassing young couples who don't have kids yet.

[GannonFan]

Catholics are officially ok with 'natural family planning', right? Honest question, just curious.

Agree that it sounds pretty fishy and, as described, the priest sounds out of line. I know enough people who *can't* have kids, and wouldn't really want to go around saying it, to say the priest has no business harassing young couples who don't have kids yet.

Yes, the Catholic Church has no official policy saying that married people have to have kids, they just need to be open to the possibility.

That's what's odd about the birth control stance to me. Natural Family Planning, if done right (key phrase, as it is with any other birth control), is just as good as any other birth control. It's actually quite easy to determine when a woman is ovulating and hence, when she can become pregnant. Heck, Natural Family Planning is used to quite good effect to help people who are having trouble having babies as some people's windows of opportunity are pretty time limited.

So my argument has always been - if Catholics are allowed, heck, encouraged to practice Natural Family Planning - and since, again if it's done right, can be highly effective at either avoiding pregnancy or getting pregnant (depending on the couple's wants) why is that okay and considered still being open to procreation? If NFP works, and it does, isn't that closing the act off to procreation? If we're against condoms because somehow that's not being open to procreation, is that tantamount to saying that God, who supposedly created the Universe, is so all-powerful in that sense, but is like Superman and his kryptonite is a thin layer of latex? NFP is okay and open to procreation, but once we put a thin sheet of latex in the way then God is out of luck? Never understood that.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Catholics are officially ok with 'natural family planning', right? Honest question, just curious.

Agree that it sounds pretty fishy and, as described, the priest sounds out of line. I know enough people who *can't* have kids, and wouldn't really want to go around saying it, to say the priest has no business harassing young couples who don't have kids yet.

Yes, the Catholic Church has no official policy saying that married people have to have kids, they just need to be open to the possibility.

That's what's odd about the birth control stance to me. Natural Family Planning, if done right (key phrase, as it is with any other birth control), is just as good as any other birth control. It's actually quite easy to determine when a woman is ovulating and hence, when she can become pregnant. Heck, Natural Family Planning is used to quite good effect to help people who are having trouble having babies as some people's windows of opportunity are pretty time limited.

So my argument has always been - if Catholics are allowed, heck, encouraged to practice Natural Family Planning - and since, again if it's done right, can be highly effective at either avoiding pregnancy or getting pregnant (depending on the couple's wants) why is that okay and considered still being open to procreation? If NFP works, and it does, isn't that closing the act off to procreation? If we're against condoms because somehow that's not being open to procreation, is that tantamount to saying that God, who supposedly created the Universe, is so all-powerful in that sense, but is like Superman and his kryptonite is a thin layer of latex? NFP is okay and open to procreation, but once we put a thin sheet of latex in the way then God is out of luck? Never understood that.

An excellent example of the veiled hypocrisy and faulty logic that soured me on the Catholic Church.

[andy7171]

Wait. OSBF. I ask if this is a Catholic church, you act like a dick as say assumed. You say he isn't a priest. You act like a dick and say Sorry I dont know the lingo and say he's a friggin cardinal. Then act indignant when I assume the it's the cardinal of chicago since your "nephew" is in Joliot, which is a part of the diocese of chicago. then you act like a dick that its not a DEAD cardinal. WTF!?!

AZ is right. You're a POS lately.

[OSBF]

Wait. OSBF. I ask if this is a Catholic church, you act like a dick as say assumed. You say he isn't a priest. You act like a dick and say Sorry I dont know the lingo and say he's a friggin cardinal. Then act indignant when I assume the it's the cardinal of chicago since your "nephew" is in Joliot, which is a part of the diocese of chicago. then you act like a dick that its not a DEAD cardinal. WTF!?!

AZ is right. You're a POS lately.

quit makin shit up that I did not say

I'm sorry I don't know all the "correct" words to use to call things/people correctly

I'm not the one that took this down the catholic bashing path, and honestly did not want this to go there

I was asking a legit question about a legit situation going on in our family

Sorry I asked, now you and your 'tude can just go piss off

[andy7171]

Wait. OSBF. I ask if this is a Catholic church, you act like a dick as say assumed. You say he isn't a priest. You act like a dick and say Sorry I dont know the lingo and say he's a friggin cardinal. Then act indignant when I assume the it's the cardinal of chicago since your "nephew" is in Joliot, which is a part of the diocese of chicago. then you act like a dick that its not a DEAD cardinal. WTF!?!

AZ is right. You're a POS lately.

quit makin shit up that I did not say

I'm sorry I don't know all the "correct" words to use to call things/people correctly

I'm not the one that took this down the catholic bashing path, and honestly did not want this to go there

I was asking a legit question about a legit situation going on in our family

Sorry I asked, now you and your 'tude can just go piss off

Cobblestone at least sticks to his story. Fail. I was legitimately trying to help until this thing went fantasmic.

[JoltinJoe]

This thread reminded me of a Perry Mason episode.

After andy's cross examination, the only point to this thread seems to be that OSBF lusts after his nephew's wife.

[andy7171]

I know by doing this I'll only incur future wrath from Cobblepebble, but....

[JoltinJoe]

I was waiting for Cobblestone to join in on the bully thread to tell us how he decked that bullying, 5-foot-1, 75-year old nun.

[andy7171]

FUCK YOU VILLANOVA!!!!!!

That should confuses them until it's Monday...

[kalm]

I'm still trying to figure out how the catholics feel they've somehow won the argument.

[andy7171]

I'm still trying to figure out how the catholics feel they've somehow won the argument.

Well it would have been somewhat believable if it were out in the middle of nowhere Illinois, but for the cardinal of chicago to be doing this is out right nonsensical.

[JoltinJoe]

The way this claim unraveled so comically was rare even for the nonsense which gets asserted about Catholicism here.

It wasn't just a bishop doing this, but an archbishop; but because this is Chicago, that's not just an archbishop there, but one of only six American bishops who is a Cardinal; and not just any one of those six Cardinals, but Cardinal Francis George, the most noteworthy and significant of the American Cardinals -- a theologian of world-wide renown and the face of American Catholicism to the world.

So Cardinal Francis George is personally excommunicating OSBF's newphew and his very hot young wife with a killer body.

Hysterical.

[OSBF]

I'm still trying to figure out how the catholics feel they've somehow won the argument.

Well it would have been somewhat believable if it were out in the middle of nowhere Illinois, but for the cardinal of chicago to be doing this is out right nonsensical.

quote me

show where I said or even alluded to that

[OSBF]

The way this claim unraveled so comically was rare even for the nonsense which gets asserted about Catholicism here.

It wasn't just a bishop doing this, but an archbishop; but because this is Chicago, that's not just an archbishop there, but one of only six American bishops who is a Cardinal; and not just any one of those six Cardinals, but Cardinal Francis George, the most noteworthy and significant of the American Cardinals -- a theologian of world-wide renown and the face of American Catholicism to the world.

So Cardinal Francis George is personally excommunicating OSBF's newphew and his very hot young wife with a killer body.

Hysterical.

Quote me

show where i said anyone other than a local clergy was involved in the situation was asking about

[JoltinJoe]

The way this claim unraveled so comically was rare even for the nonsense which gets asserted about Catholicism here.

It wasn't just a bishop doing this, but an archbishop; but because this is Chicago, that's not just an archbishop there, but one of only six American bishops who is a Cardinal; and not just any one of those six Cardinals, but Cardinal Francis George, the most noteworthy and significant of the American Cardinals -- a theologian of world-wide renown and the face of American Catholicism to the world.

So Cardinal Francis George is personally excommunicating OSBF's newphew and his very hot young wife with a killer body.

Hysterical.

Quote me

show where i said anyone other than a local clergy was involved in the situation was asking about

he's a cardinal, thought it might be a sin of some sort to refer him a priest.

[andy7171]

Yes, it is a cathedral, I think. They have a high school and a "college". Former parish of Cardinal Bernadine(Chicago). He still attends there somewhat regularily. He married my brother and his wife back in the day when he was a priest.

The Cathedral is in Chicago that this priest is going to regularly.

excuse the f out of me for not being fluent in the lingo

he's a cardinal, thought it might be a sin of some sort to refer him a priest

He's a Cardinal.

Did I miss something?

[89Hen]

I've never heard of this before. I know there's some sort of doctrine on "expanding the territory" sort of thing, but I've never heard it taken to this extreme level.

Andy, Hen????????

What gives here?????????

Never heard of this before.

[andy7171]

Maybe it's the Cardinal of Baltimore and he's commuting out to Chicago for Mass and spiritual mentoring.

[89Hen]

Forgive my ignorance on the subject, but isn't there something in the Catholic Church about having sex only for reproduction purposes (hence their aversion to any form of birth contriol)?

FWIW, during our Pre-Cana classes, they talked about the rythym method, not abstinence.

[OSBF]

Yes, it is a cathedral, I think. They have a high school and a "college". Former parish of Cardinal Bernadine(Chicago). He still attends there somewhat regularily. He married my brother and his wife back in the day when he was a priest.

The Cathedral is in Chicago that this priest is going to regularly.

excuse the f out of me for not being fluent in the lingo

he's a cardinal, thought it might be a sin of some sort to refer him a priest

He's a Cardinal.

Did I miss something?

Yes you did swing and miss

I was answering the questioning of my use of the word "prominent", by stating that the now dead bernadin sometimes attended services in this building, the same building that my brother and his family attend.

I never even alluded to bernadin in any way being involved in the issue with my niece and nephew

you made that part up

[JoltinJoe]

Maybe it's the Cardinal of Baltimore and he's commuting out to Chicago for Mass and spiritual mentoring.

He was plainly trying to make it sound like it was someone important, so he said is was a cardinal.

He obviously didn't know that there are only 6 active cardinals in the US, and that the cardinal in Chicago just happens to be regarded as the highest ranking American Catholic cleric in the US.

Let's watch the backtracking start.

[OSBF]

I get what's going on here. Its easier to attack the semantics and in-correct use of terminology than it is to just answer the question. Deflection is a classic defense mechanism around here. The longer you can deflect, the longer you can go without answering any real questions about real issues.

[89Hen]

I get what's going on here. Its easier to attack the semantics and in-correct use of terminology than it is to just answer the question. Deflection is a classic defense mechanism around here. The longer you can deflect, the longer you can go without answering any real questions about real issues.

I've seen a couple real answers... the answer is none of us have ever heard of this happening before.

[andy7171]

I get what's going on here. Its easier to attack the semantics and in-correct use of terminology than it is to just answer the question. Deflection is a classic defense mechanism around here. The longer you can deflect, the longer you can go without answering any real questions about real issues.

Is this or is this not a Cardinal giving your nephew and his hot wife spiritual guidance and threatening excommunication? Yes or no.