5 REASONS WHY THE NCAA SHOULD DROP THE FCS DIVISION

[kemajic]

NC title in FCS= 130k in earned money
NC title in BCS= MILLIONS not to mention BILLIONS IN PUBLICITY!

I can understand residents of Montana, Delaware, & Iowa to defencd their *LACKLUSTER* place in college football, but I'd bet anything in wack @ss Nothern Iowa announced they were demolishing that crap-tastic box they play football in & moving into the FBS... UNI FANS WOULD BE EXCITED AS FVCK!

*EVERY* fcs fan wishes their team would expand and move up. FACT.

Only if they are real fans....

[93henfan]

Is it all time wins? That gives this as the top 20%

Yale, Harvard, Penn, Princeton, Lafayette, Dartmouth, D, Lehigh, Cornell, Dayton, NDSU, UNI, Colgate, Holy Cross, Brown, Drake, Villanova, Furman, Bucknell, FAMU, Eastern Kentucky, UMASS, Butler, William and Mary

Where's Delaware?

UD - 639 wins
W&M - 527 wins

[clenz]

Is it all time wins? That gives this as the top 20%

Yale, Harvard, Penn, Princeton, Lafayette, Dartmouth, D, Lehigh, Cornell, Dayton, NDSU, UNI, Colgate, Holy Cross, Brown, Drake, Villanova, Furman, Bucknell, FAMU, Eastern Kentucky, UMASS, Butler, William and Mary

Where's Delaware?

UD - 639 wins
W&M - 527 wins

I got you on there. It goes Dartmouth, D, Lehigh, etc...

Well it's supposed to read Dartmouth, UD, Lehigh.


Appolgies. I have had some issues with my keyboard working lateley. I think I need a new one, this one is too "gunked" up....

[93henfan]

Where's Delaware?

UD - 639 wins
W&M - 527 wins

I got you on there. It goes Dartmouth, D, Lehigh, etc...

Well it's supposed to read Dartmouth, UD, Lehigh.


Appolgies. I have had some issues with my keyboard working lateley. I think I need a new one, this one is too "gunked" up....

Gotcha.

It's not like it matters anyway. No one cares about FCS.

[griz8791]

. . .

Gotcha.

It's not like it matters anyway. No one cares about FCS.

Dry. Understated. Tasteful.

[jrj1976urspider]

When it comes to FCS, DII and DII remember, unlike FBS, in these divisions NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS ARE EARNED, NOT GIVEN !! Unless your school is a member of a BCS conference the Naional Media will ignore what your school does on the field. It is what it is. Those that write about the so-called "big time college football" are still using the obsolete I-AA when referring to FCS in their written articles.

[JohnStOnge]

First of all, not everyone wants their team to be in FBS.

But, more importantly, the idea that a school with a FCS program is likely to achieve a better financial bottom line by moving to FBS is a myth. I've been through it many times before, looking at the data, etc. Yes, moving to FBS will bring more revenue. But it will also bring higher expenses. And the odds are far better than even that the increase in revenue will not be sufficient to cover the increase in expenses.

[ASUMountaineer]

First of all, not everyone wants their team to be in FBS.

But, more importantly, the idea that a school with a FCS program is likely to achieve a better financial bottom line by moving to FBS is a myth. I've been through it many times before, looking at the data, etc. Yes, moving to FBS will bring more revenue. But it will also bring higher expenses. And the odds are far better than even that the increase in revenue will not be sufficient to cover the increase in expenses.

That's true, but the majority of FBS football teams making a profit on football, but after spending that money on non-revenue generating sports only 14 FBS schools turn a total profit. I'd love to see a report on FCS schools. I'd venture to say no FCS schools turn a profit on athletics once all of the money is spread around. There'd probably be less than half that make a profit on football alone. You don't play football in FCS to make money, and only a few play football in FBS to make money. But, if playing FBS football can increase the funds for non-revenue generating sports, then those schools make the deal. Clearly a deal with ESPN for Tuesday night games has to be more profitable than SoCon Saturdays on SportSouth.

[BlackFalkin]

That's true, but the majority of FBS football teams making a profit on football, but after spending that money on non-revenue generating sports only 14 FBS schools turn a total profit. I'd love to see a report on FCS schools. I'd venture to say no FCS schools turn a profit on athletics once all of the money is spread around. There'd probably be less than half that make a profit on football alone. You don't play football in FCS to make money, and only a few play football in FBS to make money. But, if playing FBS football can increase the funds for non-revenue generating sports, then those schools make the deal. Clearly a deal with ESPN for Tuesday night games has to be more profitable than SoCon Saturdays on SportSouth.

Exactly!

[CatMom]

*EVERY* fcs fan wishes their team would expand and move up. FACT.

I can say this is not true because I am one of those that thinks TXST should stay put in FCS. I have no say in "The Drive" though, so I am stuck rooting for a team whose future is uncertain, at best. I love the playoffs. I didn't vote for the move up...it was the students that got the ball rolling on that one. I'd rather they stayed and steadily improved (as they have been doing the past 5 years) before even considering it but I will, unfortunately, have to go with the program, wherever they "land"

I'll still haunt this forum if/when they go, though.

[kemajic]

First of all, not everyone wants their team to be in FBS.

But, more importantly, the idea that a school with a FCS program is likely to achieve a better financial bottom line by moving to FBS is a myth. I've been through it many times before, looking at the data, etc. Yes, moving to FBS will bring more revenue. But it will also bring higher expenses. And the odds are far better than even that the increase in revenue will not be sufficient to cover the increase in expenses.

So why do no teams ever move back when they get the bad news? The odds are different than you suggest.

[kemajic]

When it comes to FCS, DII and DII remember, unlike FBS, in these divisions NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS ARE EARNED, NOT GIVEN !! Unless your school is a member of a BCS conference the Naional Media will ignore what your school does on the field. It is what it is. Those that write about the so-called "big time college football" are still using the obsolete I-AA when referring to FCS in their written articles.

Without doing research, can you tell me won those NCs in DIII, DII and FCS last year? Didn't think so. I only remember Nova because I was at the game.

[kemajic]

Is it all time wins? That gives this as the top 20%

Yale, Harvard, Penn, Princeton, Lafayette, Dartmouth, D, Lehigh, Cornell, Dayton, NDSU, UNI, Colgate, Holy Cross, Brown, Drake, Villanova, Furman, Bucknell, FAMU, Eastern Kentucky, UMASS, Butler, William and Mary

Where's Delaware?

UD - 639 wins
W&M - 527 wins

More relevant; wins in the last 10 years: Montana 129

[clenz]

When it comes to FCS, DII and DII remember, unlike FBS, in these divisions NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS ARE EARNED, NOT GIVEN !! Unless your school is a member of a BCS conference the Naional Media will ignore what your school does on the field. It is what it is. Those that write about the so-called "big time college football" are still using the obsolete I-AA when referring to FCS in their written articles.

Without doing research, can you tell me won those NCs in DIII, DII and FCS last year? Didn't think so. I only remember Nova because I was at the game.

Without looking, the only one I'm not 100% sure on is D3

BCS - Alabama
FCS - Villanova
D2 - Northwest MIssouri State
D3 - Wisc. Whitewater
NAIA - University of Sioux Falls

[JohnStOnge]

That's true, but the majority of FBS football teams making a profit on football,

I don't think that's true. I'll have to decide if I want to try to research it again but it certainly wasn't the case the last time I did it. I think that, actually, very few schools with FBS programs have net positive balances (revenues minus expenditures) on their football programs. And I don't think anybody outside of the BCS leagues does.

The problem is that, especially nowadays, it's hard to find information on just how programs are doing. The gender equity reports used to provide at least some insight. Yes, there were problems with using those data but, still, I think it was reasonable to establish beliefs based on averages. But after the NCAA used gender equity reports to demonstrate that I-A (at the time) was not the finanical promised land it was touted as being by athletic directors pushing I-AA to I-A transitions negative balances disappeared. Now if you go through them you see a whole bunch of exact 0 balances. Games are clearly being played.

[JohnStOnge]

Here is a timely article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5490686" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If it's correct, slightly more than half of FBS programs have a positive net on their football programs and I was wrong about that. However, remember that more than half of FBS programs (66 of 120) are in BCS leauges or are Notre Dame. I don't know if 66 of the 68 programs turning profits are in BCS leagues (or are Notre Dame) but I think we all know it's pretty close to that. What that means is that if you are not in a BCS league it's very unlikely that your football program is going to turn a profit.

In any case it's not valid to separate the football program from the overall athletic department when considering the impacts. The fact is that having a FBS program means you have to spend more on other programs too.

Again: The idea that a school that now has a FCS program is, more likely than not. going to improve its financial situation by going to having a FBS program is a myth.

[S F State Gaters]

#5. Everybody wants to be(or wants their team to be) in the FBS.

Plenty of FCS teams are perfectly happy being FCS teams. The fans who aren't and want their teams in FBS are simply more vocal, but truth is majority of Holy Cross fans or Montana fans or 'Nova fans pretty much get that they're better off where they are.

#4. America thinks FCS is Division II, so whats the point?

Fair enough, Div-I doesn't really mean Div-I, it has divisions, so you could just as soon call FCS Div-II, Div-II Div-III, Div-III Div IV... but then, FBS has divisions too. AQ vs. Non-AQ makes a whole second 'division' within an already divided Div-I. Read the teams in the sun belt out loud and ask yourself how they would do in the CAA or Big Sky

#3. Theres much more money to be had in FBS/Theres more success to be had in DIV. II (more on this later)

More money in FBS but not for non-AQ teams. For every Boise State or South Florida or UConn there are a dozen Utah States or Kent States or ULMs who are just getting by and hoping to be above .500 once a decade. Grass is always greener, but if you're in the top 25 FCS you wouldn't be any more successful monetarily in FBS than you already are, and if you aren't top 25 you probably have no business moving up.

#2. Lots of teams give FCS a bad wrap. Either or.. stadium or the team. (ie. J'ville, Indiana St.)

Only for people who equate college football to Michigan, Florida or USC. College football is more than just 100,000 seat stadiums and ESPN coverage. The spirit of the game is most alive at FCS or lower, and while there's a good time to be had at Penn State, so too is there an amazing experience at Elon or even Sac State.

#1 YOU CANT BE THE BEST IN FCS.

App State. Done.

[JohnStOnge]

So why do no teams ever move back when they get the bad news? The odds are different than you suggest.

They never move back because there are other reasons for assuming that posture. One thing is that athletic department adminstrators make more money if they work for a FBS school. I also think ego is a factor.

The odds are not different than I suggest. If you're talking about the odds that moving from FCS to FBS will increase the net (revenues minus expenditures of the athletic department), they are less than even.

[BlackFalkin]

#1 YOU CANT BE THE BEST IN FCS.

App State. Done.

Hmmmm i dont remember App State beating the #1 team in the fbs country..... So how can they be the best? Fact is.. its impossible to be the best in fcs UNLESS an fcs team beats the #1 team on the last game of the regular fbs season.

And that, my friend, will never happen.

Game.Set.Match.
BlackBigBrassBallsFalkin.

[frinq]

I agree with JohnStOnge all the way. Add to AD salary and ego the imponderable temptation of media coverage attractive to college presidents. But balance that against the fact that the coaches might make more money than the presidents.