Charlie Manuel Watch Thread - 2010 Edition

[93henfan]

Argh. Second and third, one out, and Uts and Werth both come up small. At least they tied it back up.

This is maddening, especially knowing that the Braves and Giants already handed you a game on a silver platter with losses earlier today, and even the Cards are down by four to the Buckos.

[BlueHen86]

Argh. Second and third, one out, and Uts and Werth both come up small. At least they tied it back up.

This is maddening, especially knowing that the Braves and Giants already handed you a game on a silver platter with losses earlier today, and even the Cards are down by four to the Buckos.

And no sooner do the Phils blow a scoring chance, the Astros retake the lead. It's 3-2 Houston, Phils coming up in the bottom on the 7th.

[BlueHen86]

Another idiot Phillies base running play. The Astros catcher Quintero picks Ben Francisco off 3rd base to end the 7th. Astros lead 3-2 in the 8th.

[93henfan]

In Francisco's defense, it wasn't Werth-caliber boneheadedness. He actually got back, but happened to step on the third baseman's foot.

[93henfan]

I'll go ahead and say it. The Phils really need to win this game. This slop is starting to get contagious.

[BlueHen86]

In Francisco's defense, it wasn't Werth-caliber boneheadedness. He actually got back, but happened to step on the third baseman's foot.

Yes it was. He's not going to steal home, why take a lead big enough to attract a throw? Dumb.

[93henfan]

Fuck.

[BlueHen86]

Fuck.

Another horrible loss. It's bad enough that they can't with runners in scoring position, their base runners can't even avoid getting picked off.

[bluehenbillk]

Just put me down for a repeat of my "wasted talent" post. Hard to watch nowadays, team is no fun, couldn't watch a second of postgame last night. Utley and Howard both rushed coming back and are hurting the team and no one else is steping up right now. Bourn can go yard, but yet our 8 guys have issues doing it. Will Ed Wade be on SportsCenter tonight waving a broom??

[GannonFan]

Just put me down for a repeat of my "wasted talent" post. Hard to watch nowadays, team is no fun, couldn't watch a second of postgame last night. Utley and Howard both rushed coming back and are hurting the team and no one else is steping up right now. Bourn can go yard, but yet our 8 guys have issues doing it. Will Ed Wade be on SportsCenter tonight waving a broom??

I agree, just tough to watch. So much talent just going to waste. Luckily, the Braves are falling apart too so they haven't lost any ground. On the bright side, when they hit, they can beat anyone. Question is will they break out of this funk before Spring Training next year?

Oh, and Francisco is clearly in the same realm of Werth-stupid for his doosie at 3rd base - how can you stumble trying to find the bag on that play? Apparently Werth's stupidity is contagious.

Is it just me or is Werth becoming the next Bobby Abreu - seemingly decent stats at face value, but you have to scratch your head to think of a time when getting those stats actually helped the team. And did I hear it correctly, last night was just his 2nd HR, all year, against a lefty pitcher? Seriously, the big right handed bat in the lineup, in there to supposedly prevent other teams from stacking up lefthanded pitching, can't get big hits against lefties? Just as the Phils got better when they gave Abreu away, I'm thinking we're going to be better off without Werth.

[93henfan]

Just as the Phils got better when they gave Abreu away, I'm thinking we're going to be better off without Werth.

Agreed. You just can't have a guy like that on the same team as someone like Chase Utley. Two totally different approaches to the game.

[GannonFan]

Just as the Phils got better when they gave Abreu away, I'm thinking we're going to be better off without Werth.

Agreed. You just can't have a guy like that on the same team as someone like Chase Utley. Two totally different approaches to the game.

I was behind on my Sports Illustrated reading and finally got around to reading the Werth article - dude just comes across like a major prick as well. Obviously what he projects in the press may be entirely different in the clubhouse, but I found it harder to like the guy after reading that piece. Of course, getting picked off of second during an intentional walk - and all because the pitcher made a funny face at you before he threw the pitch - helped a lot in liking him less too.

[dbackjon]

Agreed. You just can't have a guy like that on the same team as someone like Chase Utley. Two totally different approaches to the game.

I was behind on my Sports Illustrated reading and finally got around to reading the Werth article - dude just comes across like a major prick as well. Obviously what he projects in the press may be entirely different in the clubhouse, but I found it harder to like the guy after reading that piece. Of course, getting picked off of second during an intentional walk - and all because the pitcher made a funny face at you before he threw the pitch - helped a lot in liking him less too.

It runs in the family. Werth's Grand-dad and Uncle (both MLB players) were two of the biggest pricks in Springfield. His Uncle was same grade as me growing up - but always at rival schools.

[Fact]

Agreed. You just can't have a guy like that on the same team as someone like Chase Utley. Two totally different approaches to the game.

I was behind on my Sports Illustrated reading and finally got around to reading the Werth article - dude just comes across like a major prick as well. Obviously what he projects in the press may be entirely different in the clubhouse, but I found it harder to like the guy after reading that piece. Of course, getting picked off of second during an intentional walk - and all because the pitcher made a funny face at you before he threw the pitch - helped a lot in liking him less too.

No way they're better off without Werth.. He's been one of the best position players in the national league this year. He's got incredible range, great baserunning ability, a cannon of an arm, power, plate discipline and he shows up in big situations. The Phillies shouldn't have spent all that money on Ryan Howard, they should have invested and kept Werth for the long term because Howard is currently in the midst of the worst season of his career (even before the injury.)

Also, someone answer this for me, why the hell is domonic brown on the Phillies roster if he isn't getting at bats? I don't even think Omar Minaya and Jerry Manuel would do something that foolish.

[GannonFan]

I was behind on my Sports Illustrated reading and finally got around to reading the Werth article - dude just comes across like a major prick as well. Obviously what he projects in the press may be entirely different in the clubhouse, but I found it harder to like the guy after reading that piece. Of course, getting picked off of second during an intentional walk - and all because the pitcher made a funny face at you before he threw the pitch - helped a lot in liking him less too.

No way they're better off without Werth.. He's been one of the best position players in the national league this year. He's got incredible range, great baserunning ability, a cannon of an arm, power, plate discipline and he shows up in big situations. The Phillies shouldn't have spent all that money on Ryan Howard, they should have invested and kept Werth for the long term because Howard is currently in the midst of the worst season of his career (even before the injury.)

Also, someone answer this for me, why the hell is domonic brown on the Phillies roster if he isn't getting at bats? I don't even think Omar Minaya and Jerry Manuel would do something that foolish.

Two Words - Bobby Abreu. People had the same argument you just used for why the Phils were foolish for getting rid of such a productive player, and then lo and behold, the Phils were better. It's just history repeating itself.

As for Howard, the offense doesn't run without him. When he's banging, the Phils are the best team in the NL. Without him, well, and they drop 3 to the 'Stros. It's an odd year, power numbers are down everywhere. And Werth all of a sudden being an offensive black hole in the 5 spot probably has done something to hurt Howard's numbers as well. Keeping Howard was the safer bet over Werth, who really has only had one really great year in the majors and he's 31.

As for Brown not playing, eh, that pales in comparison to the Mets thinking bringing back Ollie Perez for another year was a good idea, or any number of other countless decisions by those two that have helped the Mets underacheive for the past 4 years. Brown will be in the starting lineup come next Spring and will be just fine. Besides, we'd probably sit Werth to put Brown in and we know how you feel about Werth.

[Ivytalk]

Get out the brooms, people. The Mighty Philthies just got swept.

[GannonFan]

Get out the brooms, people. The Mighty Philthies just got swept.

Well, on the bright side, we've got no more games with Houston the rest of the year.

[93henfan]

Get out the brooms, people. The Mighty Philthies just got swept.

Well, on the bright side, we've got no more games with Houston the rest of the year.

And the Braves appear content to ignore the chance to completely bury us.

[GannonFan]

Well, on the bright side, we've got no more games with Houston the rest of the year.

And the Braves appear content to ignore the chance to completely bury us.

The only silver lining in this whole thing (well, other than being done with Houston - isn't this two years in a row where they've swept us in the late-season matchup?) is that the Braves haven't done a thing to take advantage of this - agreed. Almost Met-like of the Braves, unable so far to take control and bury the Phils when they are buriable.

[bluehenbillk]

We can hope for a silver lining, any chance the baserunning blunder twins of Werth and Francisco missed the flight to the left coast??

[GannonFan]

We can hope for a silver lining, any chance the baserunning blunder twins of Werth and Francisco missed the flight to the left coast??

It is amazing that two guys that can't find their way around the basebaths can actually somehow navigate all those roads and turns to get to the airport. I imagine they have someone come and hold their hand all the way to the plane. Unfortunately, that's not allowed when on the bases.

Do you think Werth drives with blinders on? I mean, what would he do if the driver near him made a face at him? The fact the we haven't heard about a crash involving him must mean that he has a driver take him places.

[BlueHen86]

Phillies and Padres are in the top of the 10th tied at 2.

The Padres tied the game with 2 outs in the 9th on a balk by Brad Lidge! It's almost as if the Phillies are trying to out do themselves in the stupidity department.

Oswalt pitches 8 innings and throws only 102 pitches, but Charlie still takes him out for Lidge. With 2 outs and a runner on second Lidge intentionally walks a batter and then hits the next batter to load the bases before the balk. Pathetic.

[bluehenbillk]

I think Chollie should have left him in, you can't manage by pitch count down the stretch, especially when he retired the last 16 straight or close to that. Went to bed after the 9th, glad & surprised to see they pulled it out.

[93henfan]

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[BlueHen86]

I think Chollie should have left him in, you can't manage by pitch count down the stretch, especially when he retired the last 16 straight or close to that. Went to bed after the 9th, glad & surprised to see they pulled it out.

I agree. Pitch count shouldn't have been an issue, Oswalt was pitching well and had only thrown 102 pitches. I hope Oswalt is capable of throwing 110 to 120 pitches if needed.

Just because the Phillies have a closer, it doesn't mean that they have to use him, especially if the starter is pitching well.