Let the shit hit the fan...

[native]

I am trying to live out my witness within the church and community I serve and as a father and husband. I used to include arguing for the faith and seeking understanding on messageboards as part of my witness. I don't do that as much any more because of choices I have made with my time.

How about your witness? Since you asked?

OK, preacher man, I'll go first.

I am probably best described as a deist, in the tradition of Franklin and Jefferson. I respect the deeper faith of other founders, although I do not share it. I admire the good works and sensible approach of your Methodist forbears. I like to study the Bible, both Old Testament and New, and I believe that Scripture contains more truth than other sources. I prefer to see the glass as half full and essentially agree with C.S. Lewis that it costs nothing to bet on the existence of God, but I have still not made up my mind on the exact nature of Jesus Christ. What do Methodists believe?

I respect your time management decision and suspect that the time I spend on this blog site fails the tests of Proverbs, but I am curious that a man of the cloth would decline an opportunity to bear witness here or anywhere.

Does that answer your question?

[JoltinJoe]

Joe,
Been reading your sh*t for years. You're like the gay who fights like mad that he's not gay, but in the end, is. Allow me to bottom line you.

I think you believe what D and I and others say about your church and I hereby invite you to come over to the bright side. Free from the pseudointellectual shackles of religion, there is a tremendous peace. Confidence is gained, too, when you relalize that non-belief frees you from the onerous pressures of an aging, abusive and archaic institution, after the abandonment of which, you know you can stand alone as a freethinking human being. Quite refeshing. You'll save a lot of that dough you're plunking down into the collection basket which you know 85% is going to defend pedophile priests. For you, likely $20K/year.




Come on, you know you're turning to dust when you die, why the charade? You look silly, There is no heaven. There is no evidence of heaven. There is no evidence of "God" and you know it. Secretly, all religious know this, but they are scared shitless to even entertain the very notion, victims of the cruel death and damnation bombast beat into their heads from birth, all of it cruelly involuntarily, designed solely to harvest future collection plate dupes like you and your relatives and ancestors. You church scares kids into buying the Jesus mortgage with such positive imagery as this:




What does your religion do for you, anyway? Does it give you peace of mind? ****, I get peace of mind sitting on a lake shore fishing and admiring the flora and fuana that have evolved on our planet. Do you get peace of mind arguing with D1B? No, you get ulcers. It ain't worth it.

So, Joe, again, I offer you true peace and a brain-clearing outlook on your puny existence. I guarantee that, after a few months of freedom, your exclamation will be, "Fvck, those guys were right all the time! I love Cap'n Cat and D1B!"

He is a website or two or three or four that can help you on your journey back into the roles of true intelligence.

http://www.catholicarrogance.org/

Leaving Roman Catholicism

Leaving Christianity Handbook

New York Atheists


Good luck in your important life's change, Joe. We're behind you 100%! Reminder, too, that it is very important to get your kids out of the Catholic haunted house. Don't kick them in the guts like you were.

Cap, if you atheism works so well for you, why all the life sucks threads?

My life doesn't suck. I have anxieties, sure, but they are insignificant in comparison to my blessings. I have a beautiful wife; two great kids; close friends going all the way back to the street I grew up on and from all periods of my life; respect and admiration of my professional peers; dreams and aspirations that carry me beyond my professional life.

And anytime I feel a twinge of anxiety, it goes away the next time I go to church and remember I already have everything I'll ever need. Don't need a bigger house, a fancier car, country clubs (in fact, resigned from two in the past two years).

You know I love you like the brother I've never met, so don't take this the wrong way. Go to church some weekday morning. Sit through the Mass. At the end, kneel down and tell God that you need help; this all seems silly to you, and you're just having a hard time believing. Ask him to help you by giving you some sign that he's really there. Apologize for needing a sign, but again explain how difficult you find it to believe. If you really want the sign, he will give it to you. But then just don't blow it off as a remarkable coincidence.

[D1B]

Joe,
Been reading your sh*t for years. You're like the gay who fights like mad that he's not gay, but in the end, is. Allow me to bottom line you.

I think you believe what D and I and others say about your church and I hereby invite you to come over to the bright side. Free from the pseudointellectual shackles of religion, there is a tremendous peace. Confidence is gained, too, when you relalize that non-belief frees you from the onerous pressures of an aging, abusive and archaic institution, after the abandonment of which, you know you can stand alone as a freethinking human being. Quite refeshing. You'll save a lot of that dough you're plunking down into the collection basket which you know 85% is going to defend pedophile priests. For you, likely $20K/year.




Come on, you know you're turning to dust when you die, why the charade? You look silly, There is no heaven. There is no evidence of heaven. There is no evidence of "God" and you know it. Secretly, all religious know this, but they are scared shitless to even entertain the very notion, victims of the cruel death and damnation bombast beat into their heads from birth, all of it cruelly involuntarily, designed solely to harvest future collection plate dupes like you and your relatives and ancestors. You church scares kids into buying the Jesus mortgage with such positive imagery as this:




What does your religion do for you, anyway? Does it give you peace of mind? ****, I get peace of mind sitting on a lake shore fishing and admiring the flora and fuana that have evolved on our planet. Do you get peace of mind arguing with D1B? No, you get ulcers. It ain't worth it.

So, Joe, again, I offer you true peace and a brain-clearing outlook on your puny existence. I guarantee that, after a few months of freedom, your exclamation will be, "Fvck, those guys were right all the time! I love Cap'n Cat and D1B!"

He is a website or two or three or four that can help you on your journey back into the roles of true intelligence.

http://www.catholicarrogance.org/

Leaving Roman Catholicism

Leaving Christianity Handbook

New York Atheists


Good luck in your important life's change, Joe. We're behind you 100%! Reminder, too, that it is very important to get your kids out of the Catholic haunted house. Don't kick them in the guts like you were.

Cap, if you atheism works so well for you, why all the life sucks threads?

My life doesn't suck. I have anxieties, sure, but they are insignificant in comparison to my blessings. I have a beautiful wife; two great kids; close friends going all the way back to the street I grew up on and from all periods of my life; respect and admiration of my professional peers; dreams and aspirations that carry me beyond my professional life.

And anytime I feel a twinge of anxiety, it goes away the next time I go to church and remember I already have everything I'll ever need. Don't need a bigger house, a fancier car, country clubs (in fact, resigned from two in the past two years).

You know I love you like the brother I've never met, so don't take this the wrong way. Go to church some weekday morning. Sit through the Mass. At the end, kneel down and tell God that you need help; this all seems silly to you, and you're just having a hard time believing. Ask him to help you by giving you some sign that he's really there. Apologize for needing a sign, but again explain how difficult you find it to believe. If you really want the sign, he will give it to you. But then just don't blow it off as a remarkable coincidence.

....and if you get fucked in ass by a priest, just blow it off, cuz statistically, priests are less likely to fuck you in the ass than civilians.

Joe, dress it up all you want, but you're a member of a cult. The catholic church is a fucking joke.

[Cap'n Cat]

Cap, if you atheism works so well for you, why all the life sucks threads?

My life doesn't suck. I have anxieties, sure, but they are insignificant in comparison to my blessings. I have a beautiful wife; two great kids; close friends going all the way back to the street I grew up on and from all periods of my life; respect and admiration of my professional peers; dreams and aspirations that carry me beyond my professional life.

And anytime I feel a twinge of anxiety, it goes away the next time I go to church and remember I already have everything I'll ever need. Don't need a bigger house, a fancier car, country clubs (in fact, resigned from two in the past two years).

You know I love you like the brother I've never met, so don't take this the wrong way. Go to church some weekday morning. Sit through the Mass. At the end, kneel down and tell God that you need help; this all seems silly to you, and you're just having a hard time believing. Ask him to help you by giving you some sign that he's really there. Apologize for needing a sign, but again explain how difficult you find it to believe. If you really want the sign, he will give it to you. But then just don't blow it off as a remarkable coincidence.

LMAO. The life sucks threads are because I am a real human being who chooses to express his dismay over life's daggers. My predicaments have been created mostly by me and I have to live with those choices.

However, I choose, too, to not hide behind pastoral robes and ghosts and goblins, but rather, to face them like a freethinking man, unadorned with the bloood and thorns of your beliefs. I have faith in myself and have faith that I will overcome the challenges by myself and right my ship.

There you have it.

[D1B]

Cap, if you atheism works so well for you, why all the life sucks threads?

My life doesn't suck. I have anxieties, sure, but they are insignificant in comparison to my blessings. I have a beautiful wife; two great kids; close friends going all the way back to the street I grew up on and from all periods of my life; respect and admiration of my professional peers; dreams and aspirations that carry me beyond my professional life.

And anytime I feel a twinge of anxiety, it goes away the next time I go to church and remember I already have everything I'll ever need. Don't need a bigger house, a fancier car, country clubs (in fact, resigned from two in the past two years).

You know I love you like the brother I've never met, so don't take this the wrong way. Go to church some weekday morning. Sit through the Mass. At the end, kneel down and tell God that you need help; this all seems silly to you, and you're just having a hard time believing. Ask him to help you by giving you some sign that he's really there. Apologize for needing a sign, but again explain how difficult you find it to believe. If you really want the sign, he will give it to you. But then just don't blow it off as a remarkable coincidence.

LMAO. The life sucks threads are because I am a real human being who chooses to express his dismay over life's daggers. My predicaments have been created mostly by me and I have to live with those choices.

However, I choose, too, to not hide behind pastoral robes and ghosts and goblins, but rather, to face them like a freethinking man, unadorned with the bloood and thorns of your beliefs. I have faith in myself and have faith that I will overcome the challenges by myself and right my ship.

There you have it.

[JoltinJoe]

Cap, if you atheism works so well for you, why all the life sucks threads?

My life doesn't suck. I have anxieties, sure, but they are insignificant in comparison to my blessings. I have a beautiful wife; two great kids; close friends going all the way back to the street I grew up on and from all periods of my life; respect and admiration of my professional peers; dreams and aspirations that carry me beyond my professional life.

And anytime I feel a twinge of anxiety, it goes away the next time I go to church and remember I already have everything I'll ever need. Don't need a bigger house, a fancier car, country clubs (in fact, resigned from two in the past two years).

You know I love you like the brother I've never met, so don't take this the wrong way. Go to church some weekday morning. Sit through the Mass. At the end, kneel down and tell God that you need help; this all seems silly to you, and you're just having a hard time believing. Ask him to help you by giving you some sign that he's really there. Apologize for needing a sign, but again explain how difficult you find it to believe. If you really want the sign, he will give it to you. But then just don't blow it off as a remarkable coincidence.

LMAO. The life sucks threads are because I am a real human being who chooses to express his dismay over life's daggers. My predicaments have been created mostly by me and I have to live with those choices.

However, I choose, too, to not hide behind pastoral robes and ghosts and goblins, but rather, to face them like a freethinking man, unadorned with the bloood and thorns of your beliefs. I have faith in myself and have faith that I will overcome the challenges by myself and right my ship.

There you have it.

I think the difference is, even when faced with my most difficult personal challenges, I would never say or feel that "life sucks."

Life is sometimes awesome; frequently challenging and difficult; but in either case always a gift. Life's challenges and pains are not things to be avoided, but instead things to be embraced. Our greatest insights can come from life's challenges and inconveniences. Life never sucks.

[Cap'n Cat]

LMAO. The life sucks threads are because I am a real human being who chooses to express his dismay over life's daggers. My predicaments have been created mostly by me and I have to live with those choices.

However, I choose, too, to not hide behind pastoral robes and ghosts and goblins, but rather, to face them like a freethinking man, unadorned with the bloood and thorns of your beliefs. I have faith in myself and have faith that I will overcome the challenges by myself and right my ship.

There you have it.

I think the difference is, even when faced with my most difficult personal challenges, I would never say or feel that "life sucks."

Life is sometimes awesome; frequently challenging and difficult; but in either case always a gift. Life's challenges and pains are not things to be avoided, but instead things to be embraced. Our greatest insights can come from life's challenges and inconveniences. Life never sucks.

I agree, Jose'. "Life sucks" is merely an attention getter. I, like many millions of people, am prone to the blues, but, again, I choose to express it and not hide it. It's cathartic for me and it helps me. I won't rely on some nitwit in robes who has never been through my trials to help me fix it.

[JoltinJoe]

I think the difference is, even when faced with my most difficult personal challenges, I would never say or feel that "life sucks."

Life is sometimes awesome; frequently challenging and difficult; but in either case always a gift. Life's challenges and pains are not things to be avoided, but instead things to be embraced. Our greatest insights can come from life's challenges and inconveniences. Life never sucks.

I agree, Jose'. "Life sucks" is merely an attention getter. I, like many millions of people, am prone to the blues, but, again, I choose to express it and not hide it. It's cathartic for me and it helps me. I won't rely on some nitwit in robes who has never been through my trials to help me fix it.

It's not the guy in robes who eases our anxieties.

[YoUDeeMan]

You guys are sad outcasts who can't find anyone who will agree with you -- except here. Atheists -- 1.6% of the population, but we can't swing a dead cat here without hitting one. Wonder why?

There's that famous Christian tolerance again.

Let's see, I guess Joe thinks gays, a small portion of the population, should go back in the closet. Outcasts. Remember, if a gay person were on a golf course, do you think they would dare talk freely about their lives.

Keep it up Joe, you do your kind a wonderful service when you post your true thoughts.

[Cap'n Cat]

You guys are sad outcasts who can't find anyone who will agree with you -- except here. Atheists -- 1.6% of the population, but we can't swing a dead cat here without hitting one. Wonder why?

There's that famous Christian tolerance again.

Let's see, I guess Joe thinks gays, a small portion of the population, should go back in the closet. Outcasts. Remember, if a gay person were on a golf course, do you think they would dare talk freely about their lives.

Keep it up Joe, you do your kind a wonderful service when you post your true thoughts.

And Joe thinks it's just me and D who own his ass everyday.

[JoltinJoe]

There's that famous Christian tolerance again.

Let's see, I guess Joe thinks gays, a small portion of the population, should go back in the closet. Outcasts. Remember, if a gay person were on a golf course, do you think they would dare talk freely about their lives.

Keep it up Joe, you do your kind a wonderful service when you post your true thoughts.

And Joe thinks it's just me and D who own his ass everyday.

Aw, isn't that cute?? All the atheists think they're so smart and win all the arguments.

[YoUDeeMan]

And Joe thinks it's just me and D who own his ass everyday.

Aw, isn't that cute?? All the atheists think they're so smart and win all the arguments.

No, but your continued contemptous behavior is certainly proof that not all Christians are good Christians.

[89Hen]

No, but your continued contemptous behavior is certainly proof that not all Christians are good Christians.

[JoltinJoe]

Aw, isn't that cute?? All the atheists think they're so smart and win all the arguments.

No, but your continued contemptous behavior is certainly proof that not all Christians are good Christians.

You got the shoe on the wrong foot. You guys are loud and obnoxious around here. Then again, you poor souls do need an outlet to vent since in day-to-day life, no one really wants to listen to you.

[YoUDeeMan]

No, but your continued contemptous behavior is certainly proof that not all Christians are good Christians.

You got the shoe on the wrong foot. You guys are loud and obnoxious around here. Then again, you poor souls do need an outlet to vent since in day-to-day life, no one really wants to listen to you.

Joe, where are your Christian values? Seriously. Several posts in a row you have decided to not take the high road...in fact, you've resulted to insults. If a Muslim engaged you in a shouting match about your beliefs, would you defend yourself by verbally attacking the Muslim?

If so, then you are a disappointing version of a religious man.

[YoUDeeMan]

No, but your continued contemptous behavior is certainly proof that not all Christians are good Christians.

You may not like it, but Joe is not behaving as Jesus would want. Maybe a bit of the OT, sure...but not the new and improved version.

I don't defend Cap'n and DB1...their behavior speaks for itself. But Joe's cut from a different cloth...at least that what he says. Underneath though, it seems Joe is no different. Joe wants silence on the golf course...his own version of intolerence.

[Cap'n Cat]

You may not like it, but Joe is not behaving as Jesus would want. Maybe a bit of the OT, sure...but not the new and improved version.

I don't defend Cap'n and DB1...their behavior speaks for itself. But Joe's cut from a different cloth...at least that what he says. Underneath though, it seems Joe is no different. Joe wants silence on the golf course...his own version of intolerence.

Post of the day!

[JoltinJoe]

You got the shoe on the wrong foot. You guys are loud and obnoxious around here. Then again, you poor souls do need an outlet to vent since in day-to-day life, no one really wants to listen to you.

Joe, where are your Christian values? Seriously. Several posts in a row you have decided to not take the high road...in fact, you've resulted to insults. If a Muslim engaged you in a shouting match about your beliefs, would you defend yourself by verbally attacking the Muslim?

If so, then you are a disappointing version of a religious man.

Cluck, come on. Believers around here get called stupid and naive all the time, and then mocked by the atheist gang.

You want to have a serious discussion about a serious issue, fine. But you guys want to call people names, and then get all self-righteous when a believer responds back. Again, the shoe here is on the other foot.

There is a mountain of relevant, insightful writing by many of the world's most brilliant thinkers about this subject. You dismissed them all with a single sentece and suggested that all of them are as under-informed as the writers who use to think that the world was flat.

I do find it ironic that the atheist MO is to call believers ignorant; but when a believer points out someone who speaks about a subject matter without adequate reading is, well, ignorant, that guys gets called pompous, arrogant, and contemptuous.

Look, I got no bone to pick with you. You're a smart guy with a lot of interesting ideas on many subjects. When it comes to faith, you have your thoughts, I have mine, and why don't we just agree to respect our differences on this one issue?

[Cap'n Cat]

And, Joe, so we're loud and obnoxious on a message board "locker room", the place for free expression? Big deal. Obviously, you haven't lived through or learned the lessons from AGS of old.

Heat, kitchen -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------> you.

[Cap'n Cat]

Joe, where are your Christian values? Seriously. Several posts in a row you have decided to not take the high road...in fact, you've resulted to insults. If a Muslim engaged you in a shouting match about your beliefs, would you defend yourself by verbally attacking the Muslim?

If so, then you are a disappointing version of a religious man.

Cluck, come on. Believers around here get called stupid and naive all the time, and then mocked by the atheist gang.

You want to have a serious discussion about a serious issue, fine. But you guys want to call people names, and then get all self-righteous when a believer responds back. Again, the shoe here is on the other foot.

There is a mountain of relevant, insightful writing by many of the world's most brilliant thinkers about this subject. You dismissed them all with a single sentece and suggested that all of them are as under-informed as the writers who use to think that the world was flat.

I do find it ironic that the atheist MO is to call believers ignorant; but when a believer points out someone who speaks about a subject matter without adequate reading is, well, ignorant, that guys gets called pompous, arrogant, and contemptuous.

Look, I got no bone to pick with you. You're a smart guy with a lot of interesting ideas on many subjects. When it comes to faith, you have your thoughts, I have mine, and why don't we just agree to respect our differences on this one issue?

Respect our non-belief and you won't be counter-harassed. Deal?

[JoltinJoe]

You may not like it, but Joe is not behaving as Jesus would want. Maybe a bit of the OT, sure...but not the new and improved version.

I don't defend Cap'n and DB1...their behavior speaks for itself. But Joe's cut from a different cloth...at least that what he says. Underneath though, it seems Joe is no different. Joe wants silence on the golf course...his own version of intolerence.

No, you see it's not the argument about faith that bothers me. It's the atheist MO of calling believers ignorant and stupid.

I'd have any debate on the golf course. The reference to silence on the golf course was really about how atheists approach this discussion. You're not going to win many converts to your side by calling us all naive and ignorant. And if you're looking to impress someone and win his or her favor, you are certainly not going to do that while playing a round of golf with them and telling them why you think believers are ignorant.

[JoltinJoe]

Cluck, come on. Believers around here get called stupid and naive all the time, and then mocked by the atheist gang.

You want to have a serious discussion about a serious issue, fine. But you guys want to call people names, and then get all self-righteous when a believer responds back. Again, the shoe here is on the other foot.

There is a mountain of relevant, insightful writing by many of the world's most brilliant thinkers about this subject. You dismissed them all with a single sentece and suggested that all of them are as under-informed as the writers who use to think that the world was flat.

I do find it ironic that the atheist MO is to call believers ignorant; but when a believer points out someone who speaks about a subject matter without adequate reading is, well, ignorant, that guys gets called pompous, arrogant, and contemptuous.

Look, I got no bone to pick with you. You're a smart guy with a lot of interesting ideas on many subjects. When it comes to faith, you have your thoughts, I have mine, and why don't we just agree to respect our differences on this one issue?

Respect our non-belief and you won't be counter-harassed. Deal?

Counter-harassed?

Ok, I won't quibble over that.

[Cap'n Cat]

You may not like it, but Joe is not behaving as Jesus would want. Maybe a bit of the OT, sure...but not the new and improved version.

I don't defend Cap'n and DB1...their behavior speaks for itself. But Joe's cut from a different cloth...at least that what he says. Underneath though, it seems Joe is no different. Joe wants silence on the golf course...his own version of intolerence.

No, you see it's not the argument about faith that bothers me. It's the atheist MO of calling believers ignorant and stupid.

I'd have any debate on the golf course. The reference to silence on the golf course was really about how atheists approach this discussion. You're not going to win many converts to your side by calling us all naive and ignorant. And if you're looking to impress someone and win his or her favor, you are certainly not going to do that while playing a round of golf with them and telling them why you think believers are ignorant.

That's whre you're wrong again, Joe. We're not angling for converts like those in your cult. People can do what they please. All I am doing is presenting the other side fo the story. Most atheists do believe the religious are ignorant becasue they are, but we live surrounded by ignoramuses and it's no big deal.

[JoltinJoe]

No, you see it's not the argument about faith that bothers me. It's the atheist MO of calling believers ignorant and stupid.

I'd have any debate on the golf course. The reference to silence on the golf course was really about how atheists approach this discussion. You're not going to win many converts to your side by calling us all naive and ignorant. And if you're looking to impress someone and win his or her favor, you are certainly not going to do that while playing a round of golf with them and telling them why you think believers are ignorant.

That's whre you're wrong again, Joe. We're not angling for converts like those in your cult. People can do what they please. All I am doing is presenting the other side fo the story. Most atheists do believe the religious are ignorant becasue they are, but we live surrounded by ignoramuses and it's no big deal.

If you had read as much I as I have on this subject, you'd feel differently

[Cap'n Cat]

If you had read as much I as I have on this subject, you'd feel differently

Funny, I was going to say the same thing.