Let the shit hit the fan...

[D1B]

Just the conks Klean. They're all ****, except Baldy and Blueballs.

[youtube][/youtube]

Funny that not a single person pictured in the thumbnail for the video is a Catholic, but the video tries to make you think that the clergy depicted are Catholic clergy. Liars.

Source? Who are they? What were the churches?

It dont matter, this is all anyone needs:



Catholic church = shameful display of cowardice

[Skjellyfetti]

Check it out, Joe.

New York Times, August 29, 1936
Hitler and the Catholic churches in Germany teaming up to fight bolshevism.

In a pastoral letter to be read from all Catholic pulpits in Germany Sunday the hard-pressed Catholic Church joins the National Socialist regime in its public fight against bolshevism. But at the same time the church also turns the tables on the regime by inveighing against the "religious Bolshevist" within the National Socialist ranks who favors neo-pagan mysticism, an oppressed Christian church, and thus opens the way for bolshevism in Germany.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract. ... 5F428385F9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Christian Science Monitor, August 27, 1940
Catholics to Read Hitler Loyalty Vow

BERLIN, Aug. 27 (AP)--A solemn pledge of loyalty to Adolf Hitler by the German Roman Catholic Bishops conference at Fulda is to be read from pulpits at the end of the war, DNB, official news agency, said today.

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/csmonitor_h ... atl=google" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

New York Times, March 28, 1938
Austrian Bishops back Nazis

AUSTRIAN BISHOPS BACK NAZIS ON POLL.; Declaration Urges Catholics to Approve Union With Reich and Praises Fight on Reds

After long deliberation the Austrian Catholic Bishops issued today a declaration that urged their flocks to vote for union with Germany in the forthcoming plebiscite and blessed National Socialist activities for preventing the spread of the Communist "menace."

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract. ... 5F4C8385F9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Surely this can't be true.

[D1B]

Check it out, Joe.

New York Times, August 29, 1936
Hitler and the Catholic churches in Germany teaming up to fight bolshevism.

In a pastoral letter to be read from all Catholic pulpits in Germany Sunday the hard-pressed Catholic Church joins the National Socialist regime in its public fight against bolshevism. But at the same time the church also turns the tables on the regime by inveighing against the "religious Bolshevist" within the National Socialist ranks who favors neo-pagan mysticism, an oppressed Christian church, and thus opens the way for bolshevism in Germany.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract. ... 5F428385F9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Christian Science Monitor, August 27, 1940
Catholics to Read Hitler Loyalty Vow

BERLIN, Aug. 27 (AP)--A solemn pledge of loyalty to Adolf Hitler by the German Roman Catholic Bishops conference at Fulda is to be read from pulpits at the end of the war, DNB, official news agency, said today.

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/csmonitor_h ... atl=google" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

New York Times, March 28, 1938
Austrian Bishops back Nazis

AUSTRIAN BISHOPS BACK NAZIS ON POLL.; Declaration Urges Catholics to Approve Union With Reich and Praises Fight on Reds

After long deliberation the Austrian Catholic Bishops issued today a declaration that urged their flocks to vote for union with Germany in the forthcoming plebiscite and blessed National Socialist activities for preventing the spread of the Communist "menace."

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract. ... 5F4C8385F9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Surely this can't be true.

Damn, Jelly, outstanding.

*Joe, time to move on....and take that fucking little pissant Z with you.

[AZGrizFan]

*Joe, time to move on....and take that fucking little pissant Z with you.

You do realize I could give a rats ass about this entire argument, don't you?

[D1B]

*Joe, time to move on....and take that fucking little pissant Z with you.

You do realize I could give a rats ass about this entire argument, don't you?

Yes, I do, that's why it's funny. I do the same shit to you on Political threads.

[AZGrizFan]

You do realize I could give a rats ass about this entire argument, don't you?

Yes, I do, that's why it's funny. I do the same shit to you on Political threads.

what? lose your ass in any type of argument requiring logic? Then yes, i agree with you. You DO do the same shit...

[D1B]

Yes, I do, that's why it's funny. I do the same shit to you on Political threads.

what? lose your ass in any type of argument requiring logic? Then yes, i agree with you. You DO do the same shit...

Yeah, these religious threads require a shitload of logic!

89 Hen: Uh, jesus died for our sins, then rose from the dead to become our god

D1B: Really?

[AZGrizFan]

what? lose your ass in any type of argument requiring logic? Then yes, i agree with you. You DO do the same shit...

Yeah, these religious threads require a shitload of logic!

89 Hen: Uh, jesus died for our sins, then rose from the dead to become our god

D1B: Really?

Religion thread logic:

89Hen: There is a God.
D1B: No there isn't.
89Hen: Oh, yes there is.
D1B: Oh, no there isn't.
89Hen: Uh...yeah. There is.
D1B: No there isn't, douchebag. You're an idiot cult follower.
89Hen: Yeah, well you're a...a...a...you're a big fat liar.
D1B: I know I am but what are you?
89Hen: I know I am but what are you?
D1B: I know I am but what are you?
89Hen: I don't know, but there IS a God.
D1B: No there ain't.
89Hen: Yes there is. I talk to him every Sunday.
D1B: No, that's just your 'magination.

[JoltinJoe]

Check it out, Joe.

New York Times, August 29, 1936
Hitler and the Catholic churches in Germany teaming up to fight bolshevism.

In a pastoral letter to be read from all Catholic pulpits in Germany Sunday the hard-pressed Catholic Church joins the National Socialist regime in its public fight against bolshevism. But at the same time the church also turns the tables on the regime by inveighing against the "religious Bolshevist" within the National Socialist ranks who favors neo-pagan mysticism, an oppressed Christian church, and thus opens the way for bolshevism in Germany.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract. ... 5F428385F9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Christian Science Monitor, August 27, 1940
Catholics to Read Hitler Loyalty Vow

BERLIN, Aug. 27 (AP)--A solemn pledge of loyalty to Adolf Hitler by the German Roman Catholic Bishops conference at Fulda is to be read from pulpits at the end of the war, DNB, official news agency, said today.

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/csmonitor_h ... atl=google" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

New York Times, March 28, 1938
Austrian Bishops back Nazis

AUSTRIAN BISHOPS BACK NAZIS ON POLL.; Declaration Urges Catholics to Approve Union With Reich and Praises Fight on Reds

After long deliberation the Austrian Catholic Bishops issued today a declaration that urged their flocks to vote for union with Germany in the forthcoming plebiscite and blessed National Socialist activities for preventing the spread of the Communist "menace."

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract. ... 5F4C8385F9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Surely this can't be true.

Three abstracts from newspaper articles prove your point (whatever that is?). You get sadder and more pathetic with time.

Starting with the long-debunked "Catholic Loyalty Oath," ( ) article from the Christian Science Monitor, you seem to miss the most important part of the tiny abstract you cited from the CSM in 1940 -- the report was "according to the DNB."

Since I know you have no idea who or what the "DNB" was, let me inform you that this organization was the Nazis' news and propaganda organ -- you know, that organization which made those really cool documentaries and which regularly broadcasted news reports to the German people about the stunning success of the Third Reich at the Russian front. ( ). The "Catholic Loyalty Oath" report of the DNB was long-ago debunked as just another fabrication of the DNB. Thanks for playing on that one.

Your third article (from the NYT) has nothing to do with the Catholic Church in Germany. It deals with the historical situation in Austria pertaining to the annexation of Austria by Germany in 1938. Notice that the date of your article is March 28, 1938. So let's put this into proper context (and frankly, that you would cite this article proves you have no idea of what I am about to tell you).

The Treaty of Versailles prohibited the unification of Austria with Germany. In March 1938, however, the Nazis forcibly attacked Austria, occupied it, and announced their intention to annex Austria as part of the German Republic. Thereafter, the Nazis staged an "election," in April 1938, to determine whether the majority of Austrians desired to unite with Germany. They then demanded that the Catholic bishops in Austria (and other religious and social groups) endorse the "unification" with Germany under explicit threat of church persecution. The whole plebiscite was a sham, the endorsements coerced, and the results a fraud. There was no real choice: German had already annexed Austria.

I know you're not really a student of history, but maybe you at least saw The Sound of Music?

Now your first article is interesting because you apparently did not even read the abstract correctly. The part about "turning the tables" might indicate to someone with greater reading comprehension that the bishops actually attacked the Nazis in this statement. I have the entire text of the NY Times article and it is pretty forceful in reciting the explicit condemnations of the Nazis by the German bishops in this pastoral letter.

[tdog231]

I have the entire text of the NY Times article and it is pretty forceful in reciting the explicit condemnations of the Nazis by the German bishops in this pastoral letter.

post it.

edit: fuck, I am bad at the fake login thing.

[JoltinJoe]

I have the entire text of the NY Times article and it is pretty forceful in reciting the explicit condemnations of the Nazis by the German bishops in this pastoral letter.

post it.

edit: ****, I am bad at the fake login thing.

I can't. It's a pdf.

Spend the $3.95 and then demand a refund from Skystupid.

[JoltinJoe]

BTW, here's a link to a book which has collected all the pastoral letters and the like issued by the German bishops from 1936 through 1939. Unfortunately, the Fulda letter from August '36 is on a page not reproduced in this link. But if you read this stuff, you would be disabused of the idea that the German bishops were issuing anything laudatory of the Nazis.

http://books.google.com/books?id=KuiPXO ... &q&f=false

[tdog231]

BTW, here's a link to a book which has collected all the pastoral letters and the like issued by the German bishops from 1936 through 1939. Unfortunately, the Fulda letter from August '36 is on a page not reproduced in this link. But if you read this stuff, you would be disabused of the idea that the German bishops were issuing anything laudatory of the Nazis.

http://books.google.com/books?id=KuiPXO ... &q&f=false

Just started reading. I like the way the Preface begins:

"On the seventieth anniversary of the outbreak of World War II, it is a sad fact to record, but true, that a not insignificant number of Catholic priests and many more Lutheran ministers sided openly with Hitler and the aims of National Socialism."



Again, just the first sentence, I'll be sure to let you know what else I find in your book.

[Skjellyfetti]

"This book, however, is dedicated to the MINORITY of priests who openly resisted and suffered the consequences."

[JoltinJoe]

BTW, here's a link to a book which has collected all the pastoral letters and the like issued by the German bishops from 1936 through 1939. Unfortunately, the Fulda letter from August '36 is on a page not reproduced in this link. But if you read this stuff, you would be disabused of the idea that the German bishops were issuing anything laudatory of the Nazis.

http://books.google.com/books?id=KuiPXO ... &q&f=false

Just started reading. I like the way the Preface begins:

"On the seventieth anniversary of the outbreak of World War II, it is a sad fact to record, but true, that a not insignificant number of Catholic priests and many more Lutheran ministers sided openly with Hitler and the aims of National Socialism."



Again, just the first sentence, I'll be sure to let you know what else I find in your book.

You are gifted at finding a sentence which can be used as a sound-bite when effectively taken out-of-context.

[Skjellyfetti]

You are gifted at finding a sentence which can be used as a sound-bite when effectively taken out-of-context.

It's the way the fucking author kicks off his book. The first fucking sentence.

[JoltinJoe]

"This book, however, is dedicated to the MINORITY of priests who openly resisted and suffered the consequences."

Again, the key words there are actually "openly resisted." The vast majority of priests in German did not support the Third Reich -- and some openly resisted it.

Moreover, the German bishops issued pointed condemnations (remember, that was the point of the book) and the Vatican issued two stinging encyclicals in 1938 and 1939 which condemned the Nazis. In 1938, the encyclical (which was written in German) was smuggled into German and read without prior notices from the pulpits one Sunday. The issuance of an encyclical in a language other than Latin was unprecedented -- and was intended to plainly speak to the German people.

The 1939 encyclical was so point that the Allies airdropped 88,000 copies of its over Germany.

In any event, I assume that you will continue to lift isolated sentences from this book rather than read and digest it in overall context. What a waste of time you are.

[Skjellyfetti]

Again, the key words there are actually "openly resisted." The vast majority of priests in German did not support the Third Reich -- and some openly resisted it.

Yes, those are the key words. A minority, according to your author, "openly resisted." And, that's awesome... good Christian men. My first quote was about how many more "SIDED OPENLY"... and I think Nazi priests is pretty scary.

That's the context that you were talking about..... he says "a not insignificant number of Catholic priests and many more Lutheran ministers SIDED OPENLY with Hitler and the aims of National Socialism... This book, however, is dedicated to the MINORITY of priests who openly resisted and suffered the consequences.

[JoltinJoe]

Again, the key words there are actually "openly resisted." The vast majority of priests in German did not support the Third Reich -- and some openly resisted it.

Yes, those are the key words. A minority, according to your author, "openly resisted." My first quote was about how many more "SIDED OPENLY."

That's the context that you were talking about..... he says "a not insignificant number of Catholic priests and many more Lutheran ministers SIDED OPENLY with Hitler and the aims of National Socialism... This book, however, is dedicated to the MINORITY of priests who openly resisted and suffered the consequences.

You can't even read. He never said "many more" Catholic priests ... "sided openly." He said "many more Lutheran ministers sided openly." Is it that you can't read properly or that you just remember what you read the way it suits you?

[Skjellyfetti]

You can't even read. He never said "many more" Catholic priests ... "sided openly." He said "many more Lutheran ministers sided openly." Is it that you can't read properly or that you just remember what you read the way it suits you?

Holy shit.

He doesn't say just Lutherans... he says Catholic priests and many more Lutheran ministers sided openly with Hitler. He says both of them did.

Reread, Beavis.

"a not insignificant number of Catholic priests and many more Lutheran ministers sided openly with Hitler and the aims of National Socialism."

[JoltinJoe]

You can't even read. He never said "many more" Catholic priests ... "sided openly." He said "many more Lutheran ministers sided openly." Is it that you can't read properly or that you just remember what you read the way it suits you?

Holy ****.

He doesn't say just Lutherans... he says Catholic priests and many more Lutheran ministers sided openly with Hitler. He says both of them did.

Reread, Beavis.

"a not insignificant number of Catholic priests and many more Lutheran ministers sided openly with Hitler and the aims of National Socialism."

You just don't get it. You said he wrote said "many more" Catholic priests sided with the Nazis. He did not use the words "many more" in connection with Catholic priests. And that is precisely what I pointed out.

What is wrong with you? Are you stupid or do you do this intentionally?

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

To me that reads..."Not insignificant # of Catholics with Lutherans adding to the overall total."

How the fuck can you read that any other way?

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Holy ****.

He doesn't say just Lutherans... he says Catholic priests and many more Lutheran ministers sided openly with Hitler. He says both of them did.

Reread, Beavis.

"a not insignificant number of Catholic priests and many more Lutheran ministers sided openly with Hitler and the aims of National Socialism."

You just don't get it. You said he wrote said "many more" Catholic priests sided with the Nazis. He did not use the words "many more" in connection with Catholic priests. And that is precisely what I pointed out.

What is wrong with you? Are you stupid or do you do this intentionally?

The implication is that there were many Catholics, with many more Lutherans.

[Skjellyfetti]

The implication is that there were many Catholics, with many more Lutherans.

Exactly. JoltinJoe and his Catholic websites want to gloss over it though..... along with every sketchy thing in the church's past (or present)... It's sad, really.

This thread has reached the lowest levels of dumb. I'm not arguing anymore... Going back and forth on the semantics in some barely read, obscure book. I bet the author would be floored to know there are people actually arguing about his book.

[JoltinJoe]

To me that reads..."Not insignificant # of Catholics with Lutherans adding to the overall total."

How the **** can you read that any other way?

Because that is not what it says. In fact, it says nothing even remotely similar to what you just suggested.

It says not an insignificant number of Catholic priests and many more Lutheran ministers sided openly with the Nazis.

If you read with any comprehension, that means that there were "many more" Lutheran clergy (than Catholic clergy) who "sided openly" with the Nazis.

BTW, "not an insignificant number" implies a plain minority of Catholic priests sided openly with the Nazis -- which would be historically accurate. Too many for my liking, but a clear and distinct minority.