Too All Those That Said....

[dbackjon]

yet CAA teams got into three different brackets...hmmm

Cal Poly and Weber easily could have been in the semis, if inother brackets.

[Col Hogan]

yet CAA teams got into three different brackets...hmmm

Cal Poly and Weber easily could have been in the semis, if inother brackets.

And you know this, how????

[SUUTbird]

Well we know this because Cal Poly and Weber were phenominal teams and could have EASILY beaten any CAA team outside of Richmond and JMU...those would just have been good games .

[Col Hogan]

Well we know this because Cal Poly and Weber were phenominal teams and could have EASILY beaten any CAA team outside of Richmond and JMU...those would just have been good games .

So you say...but it's just something you pulled out your azz...no proof...

[travelinman67]

Well we know this because Cal Poly and Weber were phenominal teams and could have EASILY beaten any CAA team outside of Richmond and JMU...those would just have been good games .

So you say...but it's just something you pulled out your azz...no proof...

OK...

having watched CP, Weber, Montana, and how JMU dealt with the Griz...I question CP's strength...they were good, but don't know top 4 good...

...Weber, on the other hand...I still believe could have (should have) been a top 4 team, and also could have pushed or beaten JMU...

...after watching JMU against the Griz, I was dumbfounded at how poorly their game plan had been prepared. Running through the alphabet (Plan A..., if that doesn't work, Plan B...if that doesn't work, Plan C...) followed by a Run and Run opportunism/adjustment package is not a game plan.
The Griz showed well all around last night, and demonstrated why they belong in the C-game. Weber, on the other hand, just got knocked out a round early.

When all is said and done, other than Maine (and maybe NH), the bracket looked fine. And while it would be nice to force E-W matchups early in the playoffs to allow for an E-E or W-W Final...it makes far more sense economically, and from the fans perspective to allow the E-W matchup to take place in the C-Game.

[Col Hogan]

So you say...but it's just something you pulled out your azz...no proof...

OK...

having watched CP, Weber, Montana, and how JMU dealt with the Griz...I question CP's strength...they were good, but don't know top 4 good...

...Weber, on the other hand...I still believe could have (should have) been a top 4 team, and also could have pushed or beaten JMU...

...after watching JMU against the Griz, I was dumbfounded at how poorly their game plan had been prepared. Running through the alphabet (Plan A..., if that doesn't work, Plan B...if that doesn't work, Plan C...) followed by a Run and Run opportunism/adjustment package is not a game plan.
The Griz showed well all around last night, and demonstrated why they belong in the C-game. Weber, on the other hand, just got knocked out a round early.

When all is said and done, other than Maine (and maybe NH), the bracket looked fine. And while it would be nice to force E-W matchups early in the playoffs to allow for an E-E or W-W Final...it makes far more sense economically, and from the fans perspective to allow the E-W matchup to take place in the C-Game.

I have never doubted Montana...and I won't even try to defend the JMU game plan from last night...

I've never said "Team X can beat Team Y" if there is no history or common opponents to measure them against...yet I constantly hear folks making these claims...claims like that come from their RDB...

I believe, and nothing I've seen has changed my belief, that Montana is the premier team from the west, and until western teams can be competitive with the Griz, they will not succeed on the national level...

Montana has proven, year after year, that they can compete on that level...they are one of the true dynasties of FCS football...hell, 16 years straight in the playoffs proves that...

Each year, CAA teams don't know who will rise to the top...yea, we have cupcakes, but each year, a different couple of teams make their move...

And, please, don't blame the committee...they don't play the games...or build the teams...

To blame them is nothing more than rationalization...

[AZGrizFan]

First, CONGRATS again to Montana...great game...Great Team...

The GRIZ always represent the BSC well, and all Montana Fans should be proud...




Now, for the rest of you western pretenders...when are you going to stop living your lives vicariously through the Montana Griz...

In the last 10 years, Montana, McNeese State, and Northern Iowa are the only teams from west of the Mississippi to have made or won the finals...and lots of you westerners don't even consider the MVFC a "western" conference...

MONTANA WON...and was I surprised...HELL NO, they are consistantly a great team...

What would shock me is seeing a team other than Montana come out of the Big Fluffy...that's right, I said it...

Really, we should just call it the Big Griz conference...since they seem to be the only team that can put together a consistant winning program...strong enough to come to the playoffs AND WIN...

Weber blew their chance...I know, they'll whine and say we had to play the Big Bad Griz...OK, but you didn't win...that's how you advance...

It's not our fault that 69% of the FCS teams are east of the Mississippi...you want to play us...have your AD pick up the phone and get on a schedule...

For those of you who feel Montana's victory somehow vindicates "western" football....NEWS FLASH...it vindicates MONTANA FOOTBALL...NO MORE...

MONTANA WON LAST NIGHT...THEY DEFEATED JAMES MADISON UNIVERSITY...nothing more, nothing less...

If that makes you non-Montana fans feel your programs are somehow better...they aren't...but, please, go ahead and glow in the warmth that is MONTANA FOOTBALL...knowing all along that the last program from the BSC or any true western conference to make it to the finals that didn't have a GRIZ as a mascot and is still in FCS was.......MONTANA STATE in 1984

Colonel, Colonel, Colonel. I have NEVER been more disappointed in a post by you than I am by this one. You seem to be channeling 89Hen here with this "western football is Montana and nobody else" BS. As I said many, many times when the bracket came out, if Weber, CP and Montana were in different parts of the bracket, it could just as easily have been THOSE three teams and UNI in the semis. But, until the powers that be stop fvcking over the few western teams and lumping them all in the same 1/4 of the bracket, we many NEVER see another team besides Montana get through.

But, whatever shithole of an excuse you need to sleep at night after dissing Montana and the rest of the Western states football programs. The way the UNI/Richmond game is going, it looks like the conference that got 5/12 of their fcking conference in the tourney ain't gonna get one of those sad excuses for programs into the final. Maybe we should take away the CAA's autobid, huh?

[BlackFalkin]

Montana OWNED JMU,

Are you out of your fvckin mind?!

1 the 2 point conversion was close but it WAS good
2 the montana 'catch' ... was dropped just enough.
3 JMU was driving and the guy JUST missed that pass.

I am a big sky playoff fan, but travelinman........ lets not get ahead of ourselves.

[Col Hogan]

First, CONGRATS again to Montana...great game...Great Team...

The GRIZ always represent the BSC well, and all Montana Fans should be proud...




Now, for the rest of you western pretenders...when are you going to stop living your lives vicariously through the Montana Griz...

In the last 10 years, Montana, McNeese State, and Northern Iowa are the only teams from west of the Mississippi to have made or won the finals...and lots of you westerners don't even consider the MVFC a "western" conference...

MONTANA WON...and was I surprised...HELL NO, they are consistantly a great team...

What would shock me is seeing a team other than Montana come out of the Big Fluffy...that's right, I said it...

Really, we should just call it the Big Griz conference...since they seem to be the only team that can put together a consistant winning program...strong enough to come to the playoffs AND WIN...

Weber blew their chance...I know, they'll whine and say we had to play the Big Bad Griz...OK, but you didn't win...that's how you advance...

It's not our fault that 69% of the FCS teams are east of the Mississippi...you want to play us...have your AD pick up the phone and get on a schedule...

For those of you who feel Montana's victory somehow vindicates "western" football....NEWS FLASH...it vindicates MONTANA FOOTBALL...NO MORE...

MONTANA WON LAST NIGHT...THEY DEFEATED JAMES MADISON UNIVERSITY...nothing more, nothing less...

If that makes you non-Montana fans feel your programs are somehow better...they aren't...but, please, go ahead and glow in the warmth that is MONTANA FOOTBALL...knowing all along that the last program from the BSC or any true western conference to make it to the finals that didn't have a GRIZ as a mascot and is still in FCS was.......MONTANA STATE in 1984

Colonel, Colonel, Colonel. I have NEVER been more disappointed in a post by you than I am by this one. You seem to be channeling 89Hen here with this "western football is Montana and nobody else" BS. As I said many, many times when the bracket came out, if Weber, CP and Montana were in different parts of the bracket, it could just as easily have been THOSE three teams and UNI in the semis.[/size] But, until the powers that be stop fvcking over the few western teams and lumping them all in the same 1/4 of the bracket, we many NEVER see another team besides Montana get through.

But, whatever shithole of an excuse you need to sleep at night after dissing Montana and the rest of the Western states football programs. The way the UNI/Richmond game is going, it looks like the conference that got 5/12 of their fcking conference in the tourney ain't gonna get one of those sad excuses for programs into the final. Maybe we should take away the CAA's autobid, huh?

Z, I'm so disappointed that you continue to fall into this same trap...If blah blah bla, it could blah blah blah... coulda, shoulda, woulda...

We play the games on the field...win and advance...lose and go home...

Montana gets it...how come no one else does...

Oh, and next time, wait till the end of the game to smack a team...

[AZGrizFan]

yet CAA teams got into three different brackets...hmmm

Cal Poly and Weber easily could have been in the semis, if inother brackets.

And you know this, how????

That's the problem, Col. We'll NEVER know, will we? You can piss and moan all you want about "once again, only Montana from the West makes a deep run into the playoffs", but the committee set it up PERFECTLY so that argument could continue. THAT'S what bothers me about the system. Yeah, we've got a playoff, but that doesn't mean the system is perfect. From JMU having to play Wofford in the first round to Weber, Montana & CP getting in the same 1/4 of the bracket....the process definitely could be changed.

Seriously. How difficult would it be to switch a couple teams around? The committee acts like they're trying to split the atom...

[AZGrizFan]

Montana OWNED JMU,

Are you out of your fvckin mind?!

1 the 2 point conversion was close but it WAS good
2 the montana 'catch' ... was dropped just enough.
3 JMU was driving and the guy JUST missed that pass.

I am a big sky playoff fan, but travelinman........ lets not get ahead of ourselves.

And had either #1 OR #2 been called the other way on the field, I'd have had no problem with either being upheld. But the rule says there must be CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE to overturn a judgement call on the field. NEITHER had conclusive evidence. It would have been a travesty of justice had either one of those calls caused the result of the game to turn in JMU's favor.

Montana's D owned JMU's O on the turnover front. Apparently they don't hit like that in the CAA.

[Col Hogan]

And you know this, how????

That's the problem, Col. We'll NEVER know, will we? You can piss and moan all you want about "once again, only Montana from the West makes a deep run into the playoffs", but the committee set it up PERFECTLY so that argument could continue. THAT'S what bothers me about the system. Yeah, we've got a playoff, but that doesn't mean the system is perfect. From JMU having to play Wofford in the first round to Weber, Montana & CP getting in the same 1/4 of the bracket....the process definitely could be changed.

Seriously. How difficult would it be to switch a couple teams around? The committee acts like they're trying to split the atom...

And once again, I'll agree with you that the system is not perfect and needs change...but he who controls the purse strings...controls the system...

So while we argue about whats' ifs' could of's...The NCAA sits in the corner with the $$$, refusing to pay for what a true, March-Madness type seeding system would cost...because that would truely end most of this arguement (someone will always say they were screwed by not making the field...or not liking their seed... )

You don't KNOW CP or Weber would have made the semis...any more than I know they wouldn't...we have opinions, nothing more...

[AZGrizFan]

That's the problem, Col. We'll NEVER know, will we? You can piss and moan all you want about "once again, only Montana from the West makes a deep run into the playoffs", but the committee set it up PERFECTLY so that argument could continue. THAT'S what bothers me about the system. Yeah, we've got a playoff, but that doesn't mean the system is perfect. From JMU having to play Wofford in the first round to Weber, Montana & CP getting in the same 1/4 of the bracket....the process definitely could be changed.

Seriously. How difficult would it be to switch a couple teams around? The committee acts like they're trying to split the atom...

And once again, I'll agree with you that the system is not perfect and needs change...but he who controls the purse strings...controls the system...

So while we argue about whats' ifs' could of's...The NCAA sits in the corner with the $$$, refusing to pay for what a true, March-Madness type seeding system would cost...because that would truely end most of this arguement (someone will always say they were screwed by not making the field...or not liking their seed... )

You don't KNOW CP or Weber would have made the semis...any more than I know they wouldn't...we have opinions, nothing more...

How much more could it have cost to switch Weber with somebody on the other side of the bracket? I mean, they had to fly to CP, so why not fly to New Hampshire and have SIU fly to Cal Poly? How hard would it have been to give JMU EKU? How does RICHMOND get EKU while JMU has to play Villanova in round #1? I mean, you could hit a 3-wood between all four of these schools..Better yet, why does ASU get SCSU? Why not JMU geting them and ASU getting Villanova?....Honestly, how much more could that have POSSIBLY cost? There should be SOME reward for finishing the season as the #1 ranked team in the land...and the reward was to play possibly the THIRD best team in the land? WTF? Tweaking, Col., at minimal cost, and it would have eliminated a WHOLE bunch of complaining about the bracketing process.

[Col Hogan]

And once again, I'll agree with you that the system is not perfect and needs change...but he who controls the purse strings...controls the system...

So while we argue about whats' ifs' could of's...The NCAA sits in the corner with the $$$, refusing to pay for what a true, March-Madness type seeding system would cost...because that would truely end most of this arguement (someone will always say they were screwed by not making the field...or not liking their seed... )

You don't KNOW CP or Weber would have made the semis...any more than I know they wouldn't...we have opinions, nothing more...

How much more could it have cost to switch Weber with somebody on the other side of the bracket? I mean, they had to fly to CP, so why not fly to New Hampshire and have SIU fly to Cal Poly? How hard would it have been to give JMU EKU? How does RICHMOND get EKU while JMU has to play Villanova in round #1? I mean, you could hit a 3-wood between all four of these schools..Better yet, why does ASU get SCSU? Why not JMU geting them and ASU getting Villanova?....Honestly, how much more could that have POSSIBLY cost? There should be SOME reward for finishing the season as the #1 ranked team in the land...and the reward was to play possibly the THIRD best team in the land? WTF? Tweaking, Col., at minimal cost, and it would have eliminated a WHOLE bunch of complaining about the bracketing process.

Again, I agree...but the changes that would have prevented CP, Weber, and Montana from being in the same bracket are cost-dependent...

IF I WAS KING, I'D SPEND THE $$$$...I'm not...you're not...so the green eye-shade folks at the NCAA minimized the costs and maximized our bitching...

The other changes you recommend...which are not related to the east-west battle...I'm OK with them, but you know, you should be able to beat any team if you're ranked # 1...I will again call for the entire field to be seeded, with # 1 playing # 16 etc...

[AZGrizFan]

How much more could it have cost to switch Weber with somebody on the other side of the bracket? I mean, they had to fly to CP, so why not fly to New Hampshire and have SIU fly to Cal Poly? How hard would it have been to give JMU EKU? How does RICHMOND get EKU while JMU has to play Villanova in round #1? I mean, you could hit a 3-wood between all four of these schools..Better yet, why does ASU get SCSU? Why not JMU geting them and ASU getting Villanova?....Honestly, how much more could that have POSSIBLY cost? There should be SOME reward for finishing the season as the #1 ranked team in the land...and the reward was to play possibly the THIRD best team in the land? WTF? Tweaking, Col., at minimal cost, and it would have eliminated a WHOLE bunch of complaining about the bracketing process.

Again, I agree...but the changes that would have prevented CP, Weber, and Montana from being in the same bracket are cost-dependent...

IF I WAS KING, I'D SPEND THE $$$$...I'm not...you're not...so the green eye-shade folks at the NCAA minimized the costs and maximized our bitching...

The other changes you recommend...which are not related to the east-west battle...I'm OK with them, but you know, you should be able to beat any team if you're ranked # 1...I will again call for the entire field to be seeded, with # 1 playing # 16 etc...

OK.....how about THIS then: Swap Weber and New Hampshire. Both have to fly, stay in hotels, and eat. Weber's flight is the same distance, UNH flys an extra 3 hours --- cost, $5000---MAX. Swap the CP/UNH bracket with the Villanova/Colgate bracket and viola!!! You've got all three western teams in different parts of the bracket, at a cost of $5000, and the issue is eliminated.

I REALIZE nothing is going to change, but it doesn't mean we should all just accept it and bend over without any vaseline.

[Col Hogan]

I REALIZE nothing is going to change, but it doesn't mean we should all just accept it and bend over without any vaseline.

Then you realize fans of all these teams don't make the decisions...why do we take it our on each other???

[AZGrizFan]

I REALIZE nothing is going to change, but it doesn't mean we should all just accept it and bend over without any vaseline.

Then you realize fans of all these teams don't make the decisions...why do we take it our on each other???

Is that how you view this?

I'm just venting frustration, and you're the only one dumb enough to actually engage me!

[Col Hogan]

Then you realize fans of all these teams don't make the decisions...why do we take it our on each other???

Is that how you view this?

I'm just venting frustration, and you're the only one dumb enough to actually engage me!

[native]

First, CONGRATS again to Montana...great game...Great Team...

The GRIZ always represent the BSC well, and all Montana Fans should be proud...

Now, for the rest of you western pretenders...when are you going to stop living your lives vicariously through the Montana Griz...

In the last 10 years, Montana, McNeese State, and Northern Iowa are the only teams from west of the Mississippi to have made or won the finals...and lots of you westerners don't even consider the MVFC a "western" conference...

MONTANA WON...and was I surprised...HELL NO, they are consistantly a great team...

What would shock me is seeing a team other than Montana come out of the Big Fluffy...that's right, I said it...

Really, we should just call it the Big Griz conference...since they seem to be the only team that can put together a consistant winning program...strong enough to come to the playoffs AND WIN...

Weber blew their chance...I know, they'll whine and say we had to play the Big Bad Griz...OK, but you didn't win...that's how you advance...

It's not our fault that 69% of the FCS teams are east of the Mississippi...you want to play us...have your AD pick up the phone and get on a schedule...

For those of you who feel Montana's victory somehow vindicates "western" football....NEWS FLASH...it vindicates MONTANA FOOTBALL...NO MORE...

MONTANA WON LAST NIGHT...THEY DEFEATED JAMES MADISON UNIVERSITY...nothing more, nothing less...

If that makes you non-Montana fans feel your programs are somehow better...they aren't...but, please, go ahead and glow in the warmth that is MONTANA FOOTBALL...knowing all along that the last program from the BSC or any true western conference to make it to the finals that didn't have a GRIZ as a mascot and is still in FCS was.......MONTANA STATE in 1984

No whining from Weber as you say above, Colonel. That is a false accusation. You have not heard me whine on this web site.

The Griz won our second game fair and square, and they do deserve credit for a consistent winning program.

NEWS FLASH BACK TO YOU: Weber State, Montana State, Northern Arizona and Eastern Washington are not "fluffy" teams. Every Big Sky team with the exceptions of Idaho State and Northern Colorado would have been competitive in any other FCS conference this year.

It is also fair for Big Sky fans, the fans of other teams to have played Montana well this season, and Weber fans to "live vicariously" through the UM playoff success this season, especially the Wildcats, who are the only team to beat Montana (45-28) so far this season.

Hope Weber gets to play UMass next year!

[Col Hogan]

First, CONGRATS again to Montana...great game...Great Team...

The GRIZ always represent the BSC well, and all Montana Fans should be proud...

Now, for the rest of you western pretenders...when are you going to stop living your lives vicariously through the Montana Griz...

In the last 10 years, Montana, McNeese State, and Northern Iowa are the only teams from west of the Mississippi to have made or won the finals...and lots of you westerners don't even consider the MVFC a "western" conference...

MONTANA WON...and was I surprised...HELL NO, they are consistantly a great team...

What would shock me is seeing a team other than Montana come out of the Big Fluffy...that's right, I said it...

Really, we should just call it the Big Griz conference...since they seem to be the only team that can put together a consistant winning program...strong enough to come to the playoffs AND WIN...

Weber blew their chance...I know, they'll whine and say we had to play the Big Bad Griz...OK, but you didn't win...that's how you advance...

It's not our fault that 69% of the FCS teams are east of the Mississippi...you want to play us...have your AD pick up the phone and get on a schedule...

For those of you who feel Montana's victory somehow vindicates "western" football....NEWS FLASH...it vindicates MONTANA FOOTBALL...NO MORE...

MONTANA WON LAST NIGHT...THEY DEFEATED JAMES MADISON UNIVERSITY...nothing more, nothing less...

If that makes you non-Montana fans feel your programs are somehow better...they aren't...but, please, go ahead and glow in the warmth that is MONTANA FOOTBALL...knowing all along that the last program from the BSC or any true western conference to make it to the finals that didn't have a GRIZ as a mascot and is still in FCS was.......MONTANA STATE in 1984

No whining from Weber as you say above, Colonel. That is a false accusation. You have not heard me whine on this web site.

The Griz won our second game fair and square, and they do deserve credit for a consistent winning program.

NEWS FLASH BACK TO YOU: Weber State, Montana State, Northern Arizona and Eastern Washington are not "fluffy" teams. Every Big Sky team with the exceptions of Idaho State and Northern Colorado would have been competitive in any other FCS conference this year.

It is also fair for Big Sky fans, the fans of other teams to have played Montana well this season, and Weber fans to "live vicariously" through the UM playoff success this season, especially the Wildcats, who are the only team to beat Montana (45-28) so far this season.

Hope Weber gets to play UMass next year!

Regarding your last sentence...I doubt it will happen...UMass had all the weapons this year, and fell...most graduate, and we have a "weakness" at both QB and RB (unless some super transfers show up)...we might be lucky to have a winning season...I doubt the playoffs...

That's just my extremely early view of Minuteman Football in "09.....but, we can hope, can't we???

[BlackFalkin]

they had weber play cal poly and montana play texas st because thats the only 3 (playoff) conferences in the west. simple as that. what Col Hogan and other goose neck bastards dont realize is that MOST 1aa teams are on the east coast. big sky, southland and great west are the ONLY conferences in the west so;

1. west teams should play an east team FIRST and so on then eliminate each other last.its better that.
way.
2.it would give a west team more games to play before HAVING to be eliminated by a conference mate.

brilliant huh? i know. 90% rule. 90% of the time im right. remember that.

[Col Hogan]

they had weber play cal poly and montana play texas st because thats the only 3 (playoff) conferences in the west. simple as that. what Col Hogan and other goose neck bastards dont realize is that MOST 1aa teams are on the east coast. big sky, southland and great west are the ONLY conferences in the west so;

1. west teams should play an east team FIRST and so on then eliminate each other last.its better that.
way.
2.it would give a west team more games to play before HAVING to be eliminated by a conference mate.

brilliant huh? i know. 90% rule. 90% of the time im right. remember that.

Hey, junior...read my posts...I don't want east vs west...I want the entire field seeded...1 play 16, 2 plays 15, etc...and let the chips fall where they may...

The NCAA has set it up the way it is to lower the bills...I know very well that 69% of FCS teams lie east of the Mississippi River, you numb-nuts...I've posted the map so many time, I'm not even gonna humor you with it...

So, unless you have a rich uncle who is going to pay the bills...we're stuck with what we have...you can whine all you want...call us easterners names...but the NCAA is not an east coast bunch, based in Indiana...bet you didn't know that...

[BlackFalkin]

who gives a shit where the NCAA is based u silly bastard.

it should be seeded but its not, & money is a totally different animal.

do you think weber wouldnt have paid for higher plane costs to avoid an ass whoppin by montana and to stay alive at least one more round in the playoffs? godDAMN u old, monkey-mouth bastard, pay attention. this is chess not checkers.

point being, regaurdless of cost, weber wouldve rather went and played anywhere else than to lose, second round to a conference mate;

montana
east x

north east x
south x

cal poly
central x

south east x
weber st.

[Col Hogan]

who gives a shit where the NCAA is based u silly bastard.

it should be seeded but its not, & money is a totally different animal.

do you think weber wouldnt have paid for higher plane costs to avoid an ass whoppin by montana and to stay alive at least one more round in the playoffs? godDAMN u old, monkey-mouth bastard, pay attention. this is chess not checkers.

point being, regaurdless of cost, weber wouldve rather went and played anywhere else than to lose, second round to a conference mate;

montana
east x

north east x
south x

cal poly
central x

south east x
weber st.

OK, butt-breath...next time you're in the vicinity of Indianapolis, you stop in and sell that to the NCAA...

If Weber wants to pay its own way...that's great...other schools may not...what you gonna do, kick them out of the playoffs...

It's all for one...everyone pays or the NCAA pays...and right now, everyone wants the NCAA paying...so we get what we got...

You're so thick, you think I like the system...

I'm just smart enough to understand what is...and not to bitch about what I'd like, but isn't...

[BlackFalkin]

OK, butt-breath...

Wow.... where the hell did u get that? listen guy, all im saying is this; forget about costs for a sec, when we went to the playoffs in '04, ewu AND montana were in. we played SIU first, then sam houston second. after that we WOULD have played montana. [if we didnt blow it in the 4th quarter]. stevie wonder could see the clarity in that, log off adult friend finder dot com and pay 'full' attention.