Montana wants FBS opponents, but...

[grizzaholic]

Where do you get 900k?

$700k was the figure. Still high.

900/700 same thing. Did you work for AIG or Enron?

[bpcats]

The Griz are in a unique position as one of the few universities that make (most of the time) more money for home games than going for the payday. Most other universities at our level have to schedule up to keep the football program going. The one benefit is that it is a recruiting tool offering players the chance that they belong and get them some exposure.

After playing Iowa several years back and leaving the game a little beat up, Coach Hauck decided that it wasn't worth it.

It is definitely didn't hurt the Griz as they have consistlently made the playoffs. The new coach may want to change that approach but actually finding an opponent where they make more money than from their home games will be tough.

I do think that it would be a opportunity for the Griz to play up and see how stack up against FBS competition since they are evaluating the move to the WAC or Mtn West conference.

[89Hen]

900/700 same thing.

Neither equal 500 so in this case, they are.

[grizzaholic]

900/700 same thing.

Neither equal 500 so in this case, they are.

There you go using that shitty education you got.

[putter]

I would love to see Montana play Washington St, Idaho, Colorado St, Utah St, etc. I think the Griz could be competitive in these games but there is no way that these schools could pay what Montana is looking for. The only way to get those payouts is to play the Washington's, Colorado's, and Oregon's of the world but, in doing that, you get your payday but also get a good beatdown

[Pigskin Steve]

So it boils down to the Griz want to play FBS teams that only get a small amount of BCS money, since they are not BCS, but be paid like it is a BCS team they are playing. Which the FBS teams cannot pay out.
Also that they do not want to play a BCS team because they might get crushed.

[GrizFan5]

Note that the last two I-A teams UM has played are Iowa and Oregon, both of which were ranked in the top 20 at the time of the game.

Note that playing a regional I-A team that pays only $200,000 were effectively result in UM "losing" about $400,000 or so from what it would net in a normal home game. How many I-AA teams would play up if they had to pay the opponent $400,000?

It is not correct to say that UM want to make BCS money without playing a BCS team. UM would like to play (and has played) BCS teams, although my guess is that the coach would prefer not to play a USC when it is considered to be a contender for a national championship.

UM would prefer to play a school that is in an area where it would recruits or that would otherwise help with recruiting. UM recruits primarily in California, Washington, Oregon, Arizona and Colorado (as well as Montana).

UM would like to play a regional I-A team, but, generally, money (or lack thereof) is an important factor. Again, how many of you would "pay" $400,000 to go on the road to play a I-A team. On the other hand, in a year when UM has both the Bobcat game at home and Homecoming, I could see the budget working out so that a regional I-A game could be fit into the budget--particularly if the I-A team put up a bit more money than it normally does.

The Washington or Oregon schools, as well as Colorado, might be a good fit. Or even the Arizona schools. However, it looks like some of those schools are trying to play in-state I-AA teams more.

Personally, I don't much care who UM plays. I like the home games. For me, playing Western St. in Missoula is way more fun than watching UM play Oregon on tv.

[mlbowl]

So it boils down to the Griz want to play FBS teams that only get a small amount of BCS money, since they are not BCS, but be paid like it is a BCS team they are playing. Which the FBS teams cannot pay out.
Also that they do not want to play a BCS team because they might get crushed.

Yup...that's it braniac

[clenz]

So it boils down to the Griz want to play FBS teams that only get a small amount of BCS money, since they are not BCS, but be paid like it is a BCS team they are playing. Which the FBS teams cannot pay out.
Also that they do not want to play a BCS team because they might get crushed.

[GrizFan5]

For the prior poster who was trying to do some calculations of how much revenue App St made per home game. This is a quote from a recent article, in a Missoula newspaper, regarding an interview with Montana's AD.

"Football ticket sales currently bring in roughly $4.2 million, the highest among championship subdivision teams and more than double Appalachian State's second-ranked total,...."

[Skjellyfetti]

"Football ticket sales currently bring in roughly $4.2 million, the highest among championship subdivision teams and more than double Appalachian State's second-ranked total,...."

I don't see how the math works out for that to be true.

Similar attendance. Similar ticket prices.

I don't think y'all let in all your students for free... so that could be some of the difference... but, I don't think it would give y'all TWICE the ticket revenue as us...

What am I missing?

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

"Football ticket sales currently bring in roughly $4.2 million, the highest among championship subdivision teams and more than double Appalachian State's second-ranked total,...."

I don't see how the math works out for that to be true.

Similar attendance. Similar ticket prices.

I don't think y'all let in all your students for free... so that could be some of the difference... but, I don't think it would give y'all TWICE the ticket revenue as us...

What am I missing?

How many luxury boxes you guys got jelly? Could be some of the difference. Montana has 49 and they are somewhere around 15K/each I think and then there is also luxury/club seating on the expansion side along with probably 3000-4000 seats that you have to pay GSA membership on top of the ticket price. Those seats between the 40's run at an avg. of about $90-100/game I think now if that is figured into the ticketing revenue.

[GrizFan5]

"Football ticket sales currently bring in roughly $4.2 million, the highest among championship subdivision teams and more than double Appalachian State's second-ranked total,...."

I don't see how the math works out for that to be true.

Similar attendance. Similar ticket prices.

I don't think y'all let in all your students for free... so that could be some of the difference... but, I don't think it would give y'all TWICE the ticket revenue as us...

What am I missing?

Doesn't App St have a huge chunk of its "seating" up on a hill? Presumably, those "seats" don't cost much.

UM's tickets are more expensive than App St's. UM's regular game tickets are about $30, and Homecoming and the Bobcat games are $50 - $55. UM doesn't have lower prices for kids and seniors, I don't think. App St's does have lower prices for those catgories.

I believe UM's season tickets for 6 games is something around $220 this year. App St's is $160 for 6 games, according to their website. It's single game tickets are $27.

[GrizFan5]

[How many luxury boxes you guys got jelly? Could be some of the difference. Montana has 49 and they are somewhere around 15K/each I think and then there is also luxury/club seating on the expansion side along with probably 3000-4000 seats that you have to pay GSA membership on top of the ticket price. Those seats between the 40's run at an avg. of about $90-100/game I think now if that is figured into the ticketing revenue.

I'm pretty sure that the cost of GSA memberships are not included in the Ticket Sales category. Those funds go into the GSA (or similar) line item. I would guess that there are more than that amount of seats that require GSA memberships, or premium memberships.

I'm not sure how suite costs are allocated either, but I assume that a good chunk of the cost does not go into the Ticket Sales category. Suite cost range from $12,500 to $16,500, I believe, so your $15K figure is in the ballpark.

As I said above, I think the difference in revenue between the schools is the higher costs of UM tickets, and the fact (I believe) that App St has a bunch of lower cost tickets. I wonder if App St has more free student tickets too.

[Skjellyfetti]

As I said above, I think the difference in revenue between the schools is the higher costs of UM tickets, and the fact (I believe) that App St has a bunch of lower cost tickets. I wonder if App St has more free student tickets too.

This is not true. It gets thrown in on all these types of threads. TICKETS FOR THE HILL ARE THE SAME PRICE AS THE STANDS.

We do have more free student tickets. Any student can go to the game for free.. however... no way does that only equal 2.1 million in ticket sales and less than half of Montana's.




If we only pull in less than 2.1 million in ticket sales... which we'd have to to make Montana's AD's statement correct... we'd have to average a good bit less than $10 a ticket. Even the grass tickets are $25 dollars. No way the average ticket price is less than $10. No way in hell.

[Skjellyfetti]

I'm pretty sure that the cost of GSA memberships are not included in the Ticket Sales category. Those funds go into the GSA (or similar) line item. I would guess that there are more than that amount of seats that require GSA memberships, or premium memberships.

Maybe that is the difference, then. GSA figures are in y'all's numbers and Yosef Club aren't in ours? (our numbers would still be way low though at less than $10 a ticket average)

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

[How many luxury boxes you guys got jelly? Could be some of the difference. Montana has 49 and they are somewhere around 15K/each I think and then there is also luxury/club seating on the expansion side along with probably 3000-4000 seats that you have to pay GSA membership on top of the ticket price. Those seats between the 40's run at an avg. of about $90-100/game I think now if that is figured into the ticketing revenue.

I'm pretty sure that the cost of GSA memberships are not included in the Ticket Sales category. Those funds go into the GSA (or similar) line item. I would guess that there are more than that amount of seats that require GSA memberships, or premium memberships.

I'm not sure how suite costs are allocated either, but I assume that a good chunk of the cost does not go into the Ticket Sales category. Suite cost range from $12,500 to $16,500, I believe, so your $15K figure is in the ballpark.

As I said above, I think the difference in revenue between the schools is the higher costs of UM tickets, and the fact (I believe) that App St has a bunch of lower cost tickets. I wonder if App St has more free student tickets too.

I was using just the seats between the 40's and there are more that require GSA but I was citing the price for the premium seating. Now that I think about it though that price is from about 6 yrs. ago so I am damn sure the premium price seats are higher than that. There are a couple of other levels of membership as you move out.

[89Hen]

This is a quote from a recent article, in a Missoula newspaper, regarding an interview with Montana's AD.

"Football ticket sales currently bring in roughly $4.2 million, the highest among championship subdivision teams and more than double Appalachian State's second-ranked total,...."

No F'n chance. I'm sure they are #1, but not by double.

[GrizFan5]

Anyone want to bet me on App St's football ticket revenue? Some of you may want to do alittle research before you start making incorrect statements. From the Equity in Athletics DOE website for the last fiscal year for App St:

"Football Revenue includes $507,946 directly related to the NCAA Playoff games; ticket revenue of $1,947,004; game guarantees of $550,000 and concessions and programs revenues of $228,163"

Note that it says ticket revenue was $1,947,004. That number is consistent with what Montana AD O'Day said in the recent article.

total Football Revenue was $3,307,184.

Hopefully, this link will get you to the right place. If not, you may have to look a bit further on the site.

http://www.ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDet ... 313620414d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Skjellyfetti]

So, Montana's overall football revenue is $4,689,503. Their ticket sale revenue is ~4.2 million. Difference of ~$400,000

App's overall football revenue is $3,307,184. Their ticket sale revenue is $1,947,004. Difference of 1.4 million. 3x the difference between Montana's football revenue and ticket revenue.

Only thing that makes sense about that is that Yosef Club donations aren't included in our ticket sales and they (y'all's equivalent to Yosef Club) are in y'all's.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

So, Montana's overall football revenue is $4,689,503. Their ticket sale revenue is ~4.2 million. Difference of ~$400,000

App's overall football revenue is $3,307,184. Their ticket sale revenue is $1,947,004. Difference of 1.4 million. 3x the difference between Montana's football revenue and ticket revenue.

Only thing that makes sense about that is that Yosef Club donations aren't included in our ticket sales and they (y'all's equivalent to Yosef Club) are in y'all's.

All of these Ath. Depts. do their accounting differently and it is tough to compare em' because of that. That is why I was trying to make the point earlier in the thread that if you just take the total amount of money that comes in for a game to the University (not the ath. dept.) then you can get something a little closer to the true amount that it costs the school NOT to have that home game.

[GrizFan5]

So, Montana's overall football revenue is $4,689,503. Their ticket sale revenue is ~4.2 million. Difference of ~$400,000

App's overall football revenue is $3,307,184. Their ticket sale revenue is $1,947,004. Difference of 1.4 million. 3x the difference between Montana's football revenue and ticket revenue.

Only thing that makes sense about that is that Yosef Club donations aren't included in our ticket sales and they (y'all's equivalent to Yosef Club) are in y'all's.

It's not that hard to estimate UM's ticket revenue. In a year with 6 homes games, including Homecoming and the Bobcat game, this would be the rough calculation. Approx. 20,000 revenue tickets times $30 times 4 games equals $2.4 million. 20,000 revenue tickets times $50 times 2 games equals $2 million. Total equals $4.4 million. I think that ticket sales probably include the ticket revenue from playoff games, i.e. the 25% that goes to the host school after payment of the guarantee and expenses. I'm assuming O'Day was using the figure from last fall, when UM did not host the Bobcat game, but did have 3 playoff games. Thus, there would have been about $400,000 less ticket revenue due to not having the Bobcat game at home, but some amount of ticket revenue from the 3 hosted playoff games.

As for some of the other differences between UM and App St, UM almost never has guarantee income. However, UM has guarantee costs each year, which reduce football revenue. It's my understanding that UM athletics do not get much of the concession income. I assume UM athletics gets the program income, but don't know. Note the amount of ncaa playoff revenue in App St's figures. I suspect that App St may be able to keep its bids lower (and still host) and probably has lower gameday expenses than UM does. UM has fairly high gameday expenses, and sometimes has to deal with snow removal during the playoffs, which is an additional expense.

[Skjellyfetti]

It's not that hard to estimate UM's ticket revenue. In a year with 6 homes games, including Homecoming and the Bobcat game, this would be the rough calculation. Approx. 20,000 revenue tickets times $30 times 4 games equals $2.4 million. 20,000 revenue tickets times $50 times 2 games equals $2 million. Total equals $4.4 million. I think that ticket sales probably include the ticket revenue from playoff games, i.e. the 25% that goes to the host school after payment of the guarantee and expenses.

And, the thing that I find strange is that if you do the same thing for App... you don't get anything close to $1.9 million... you get something MUCH closer to Montana. 20,000 revenue tickets times $27 times 6 equals 3.24 million. I don't see how the actual answer is 1.9 million.

[FCS Go!]

It's not that hard to estimate UM's ticket revenue. In a year with 6 homes games, including Homecoming and the Bobcat game, this would be the rough calculation. Approx. 20,000 revenue tickets times $30 times 4 games equals $2.4 million. 20,000 revenue tickets times $50 times 2 games equals $2 million. Total equals $4.4 million. I think that ticket sales probably include the ticket revenue from playoff games, i.e. the 25% that goes to the host school after payment of the guarantee and expenses.

And, the thing that I find strange is that if you do the same thing for App... you don't get anything close to $1.9 million... you get something MUCH closer to Montana. 20,000 revenue tickets times $27 times 6 equals 3.24 million. I don't see how the actual answer is 1.9 million.

Maybe App has to pay rent on the stadium a la Griz on office space, etc.

[GrizFan5]

It's not that hard to estimate UM's ticket revenue. In a year with 6 homes games, including Homecoming and the Bobcat game, this would be the rough calculation. Approx. 20,000 revenue tickets times $30 times 4 games equals $2.4 million. 20,000 revenue tickets times $50 times 2 games equals $2 million. Total equals $4.4 million. I think that ticket sales probably include the ticket revenue from playoff games, i.e. the 25% that goes to the host school after payment of the guarantee and expenses.

And, the thing that I find strange is that if you do the same thing for App... you don't get anything close to $1.9 million... you get something MUCH closer to Montana. 20,000 revenue tickets times $27 times 6 equals 3.24 million. I don't see how the actual answer is 1.9 million.

The likely answer is that App St doesn't sell 20,000 revenue tickets per game and doesn't sell all of the revenue tickets at $27.

I know you want it to be that App St has more ticket revenue, but the reality is that App St has reported a lower revenue figure to the U.S. Dept of Education, and the Montana AD must have a list showing that App St's revenue number is pretty much what App St reports to the federal government.