Seniors Told To Stop Praying *Aloud* Before Meals

[D1B]

What a dumbfuck.

thanks for the confirmation that I'm right on the money.

Not really Z. You're criminally oversimplifying this to lend support your position, and you're a fucking atheist to boot. You're just exhausting is all.

[D1B]

lol. The quotes I got were from UVA's website. There isn't a better place for information on Jefferson. If they were taken out of context... it was done by them... and I'm pretty sure they are familiar as fuck on the context. They don't distort his positions.

I think both of our quotes are fine, but I at the notion that UVA doesn't distort his positions. Mrs89 is a Wahoo and I tease her all the time about how UVA follows TJ's teachings but conveniently overlooks his slaves and children out of wedlock. If anyone distorts TJ, it's the University of Virginia.

Maybe you two should get a room?

[D1B]

No ****, they can do whatever the **** they want in their homes. Talking bout a senior center here - a publicly funded place - so NO PRAYER.

They can pray silently - jesus don't give a flying **** you *******. If you read the bible, the mythical jesus would actually prefer you to pray silently and not make a hypcritical spectacle. People should be praying silenty because there are others, in the room, who are not **** christian and should not be subjected to that nonsense - it called be courteous, look it up sometime Tbag.

The rules are clear and people should know this going in. If they have a **** problem, they should go to a private nursing home with a rec center or move to the **** South. It's called personal accountability Tbag, look it up sometime.

It's good to see that you are uninformed on constitutional law too. If a bunch of seniors in a public nursing home want to pray before a meal, and to do so publicly and out loud, they have every right do so long as the prayer is voluntary and organized privately. That's basic First Amendment law.

Uninformed, like you are on this:

LISBON, Portugal – In his most thorough admission of the church's guilt in the clerical sex abuse scandal, Pope Benedict XVI said Tuesday the greatest persecution of the institution "is born from the sins within the church," and not from a campaign by outsiders.
The pontiff said the Catholic church has always been tormented by problems of its own making — a tendency that is being witnessed today "in a truly terrifying way."
"The church needs to profoundly relearn penitence, accept purification, learn forgiveness but also justice," he said.
"Forgiveness cannot substitute justice," he said.
Benedict was responding to journalists' questions, submitted in advance, aboard the papal plane as he flew to Portugal for a four-day visit.
In a shift from the Vatican's initial claim that the church was the victim of a campaign by the media and abortion rights and pro-gay marriage groups, Benedict said: "The greatest persecution of the church doesn't come from enemies on the outside but is born from the sins within the church."
Previously, he has taken to task the abusers themselves and, in the case of Ireland, the bishops who failed to stop them.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100511/ap_" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... tugal_pope

I'll be waiting for your apology you piece of shit.

[JohnStOnge]

And again, that was 200+ years ago, *******. Lots have happened since.

Well, as long as we agree that the First Amendment Establishment Clause was not understood when it was ratified to mean "Separation of Church and State" as that terminology is applied today, we can at least have the discussion on an honest basis. The worst situation is when people try to claim that the people who ratified the First Amendment would have construed it to mean stuff like not having prayer at athletic events, in public schools, etc....much less in a situation like this.

Of course, the people who ratified the First Amendment would also have probably said that the Federal government has no business funding meals for Senior Citizen centers to begin with.

[travelinman67]

Gotta agree with the Conks on this... they can't stop someone from praying.

You have a freedom to practice your religion and a freedom to not be forced to practice a certain religion.

Jely, praying out loud in a public setting IS forcing to practice or at least recognize a certain religion.

It's no different than second hand smoke. Sure you can smoke, but get the fuck away from me you dumbass.

...feel the same way about outspoken atheists and Christian-haters. And since the majority of people sitting at the table believe in a Christian God, you can take your atheist bullshit to another table, or better yet, keep your mouth shut or leave.

[D1B]

Jely, praying out loud in a public setting IS forcing to practice or at least recognize a certain religion.

It's no different than second hand smoke. Sure you can smoke, but get the fuck away from me you dumbass.

...feel the same way about outspoken atheists and Christian-haters. And since the majority of people sitting at the table believe in a Christian God, you can take your atheist bullshit to another table, or better yet, keep your mouth shut or leave.

Go fuck yourself Fat Ass. Outspoken atheists don't feel the need to preach at dinner, grad ceremonies or before Jai Alai matches like you christian retards. You assholes are the biggest pains in the ass and can never keep your big fat mouths shut.

This whole thread is a non issue and should have never seen the light of day. You fucks always have to give the bullshit impression that you're being oppressed or silenced. SMFH and christian tyrant and retards.

[D1B]

And again, that was 200+ years ago, *******. Lots have happened since.

Well, as long as we agree that the First Amendment Establishment Clause was not understood when it was ratified to mean "Separation of Church and State" as that terminology is applied today, we can at least have the discussion on an honest basis. The worst situation is when people try to claim that the people who ratified the First Amendment would have construed it to mean stuff like not having prayer at athletic events, in public schools, etc....much less in a situation like this.

Of course, the people who ratified the First Amendment would also have probably said that the Federal government has no business funding meals for Senior Citizen centers to begin with.

Whatever John. The highest courts have repeatedly ruled prayer in public schools is unconstitutional. This is a non issue. Just pray silently and shut the fuck up.

Oh and prayers are bullshit too. Have you ever had them answered?

[YoUDeeMan]

And since the majority of people sitting at the table believe in a Christian God, you can take your atheist bullshit to another table, or better yet, keep your mouth shut or leave.

"[M]easures are too often decided, not according to the rules of justice and the rights of the minor party, but by the superior force of an interested and overbearing majority." - Madison

[houndawg]

Jely, praying out loud in a public setting IS forcing to practice or at least recognize a certain religion.

It's no different than second hand smoke. Sure you can smoke, but get the **** away from me you dumbass.

...feel the same way about outspoken atheists and Christian-haters. And since the majority of people sitting at the table believe in a Christian God, you can take your atheist bullshit to another table, or better yet, keep your mouth shut or leave.

The list of gods that christians don't believe in is just one shorter than the list of gods that atheists don't believe in.

[kalm]

And since the majority of people sitting at the table believe in a Christian God, you can take your atheist bullshit to another table, or better yet, keep your mouth shut or leave.

"[M]easures are too often decided, not according to the rules of justice and the rights of the minor party, but by the superior force of an interested and overbearing majority." - Madison

Nailed it.

[Skjellyfetti]

The list of gods that christians don't believe in is just one shorter than the list of gods that atheists don't believe in.

[D1B]

...feel the same way about outspoken atheists and Christian-haters. And since the majority of people sitting at the table believe in a Christian God, you can take your atheist bullshit to another table, or better yet, keep your mouth shut or leave.

The list of gods that christians don't believe in is just one shorter than the list of gods that atheists don't believe in.

Better luck next time Tbags.

[Chizzang]

I am for freedom of religion, & against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Elbridge Gerry, 1799

I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance, or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Edward Dowse, April 19, 1803

They have made the happy discovery, that the way to silence religious disputes, is to take no notice of them.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

[travelinman67]

And since the majority of people sitting at the table believe in a Christian God, you can take your atheist bullshit to another table, or better yet, keep your mouth shut or leave.

"[M]easures are too often decided, not according to the rules of justice and the rights of the minor party, but by the superior force of an interested and overbearing majority." - Madison

And how, my friend, are a group of people who fold their hands and whisper words for 5-10 seconds brutally imposing their will upon you with "superior force of an interested and overbearing majority"?

By my count, I see 4 loudmouth fucks attempting to shoutdown 1 poster's response to 1 loudmouth fuck.

Who is overbearing?

[houndawg]

"[M]easures are too often decided, not according to the rules of justice and the rights of the minor party, but by the superior force of an interested and overbearing majority." - Madison

And how, my friend, are a group of people who fold their hands and whisper words for 5-10 seconds brutally imposing their will upon you with "superior force of an interested and overbearing majority"?

By my count, I see 4 loudmouth **** attempting to shoutdown 1 poster's response to 1 loudmouth ****.

Who is overbearing?

"Shoutdown".

I don't care if they pray in public, tbag, or whatever else they do with their lives, I'm just embarassed for them, that's all; like farting in public.

[D1B]

"[M]easures are too often decided, not according to the rules of justice and the rights of the minor party, but by the superior force of an interested and overbearing majority." - Madison

And how, my friend, are a group of people who fold their hands and whisper words for 5-10 seconds brutally imposing their will upon you with "superior force of an interested and overbearing majority"?

By my count, I see 4 loudmouth fucks attempting to shoutdown 1 poster's response to 1 loudmouth fuck.

Who is overbearing?

Tman, like most of your posts, this is bullshit. Those people were not told to stop praying, they were told to keep their nursury rhyme bullshit to themselves and not bother the other customers, so fuck you. We all have to tolerate various members of your family preaching on the street corners, loudly, and passing out copies of the bible the size of a sugar cube. Ok? We all do and no one cares. The minute those motherfuckers enter a building pay for by me, he or they need to shut the fuck up about baby jesus and the blessed virgin mary while I'm trying to eat or get my drivers license.

Like all these "christian victim" stories, if they really were quietly mumbling their stupid fucking prayers, THERE WOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM.

*Keep em coming Tbag, it's fun to see Houndawg and Wedge tear you up.

[travelinman67]

And how, my friend, are a group of people who fold their hands and whisper words for 5-10 seconds brutally imposing their will upon you with "superior force of an interested and overbearing majority"?

By my count, I see 4 loudmouth fucks attempting to shoutdown 1 poster's response to 1 loudmouth fuck.

Who is overbearing?

Tman, like most of your posts, this is bullshit. Those people were not told to stop praying, they were told to keep their nursury rhyme bullshit to themselves and not bother the other customers, so fuck you. We all have to tolerate various members of your family preaching on the street corners, loudly, and passing out copies of the bible the size of a sugar cube. Ok? We all do and no one cares. The minute those motherfuckers enter a building pay for by me, he or they need to shut the fuck up about baby jesus and the blessed virgin mary while I'm trying to eat or get my drivers license.

Like all these "christian victim" stories, if they really were quietly mumbling their stupid fucking prayers, THERE WOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM.

*Keep em coming Tbag, it's fun to see Houndawg and Wedge tear you up.

Well, first, the problem which created this dispute arose from the meals being government funded, not the senior center.

Second, Wedge posted pictures of homeless panhandler signs...which have nothing to do with this topic.

Third, the only thing Hempdawg has ever "torn up" is a package of defective Zig-Zag papers.



You might want to speak to your Doctor about these adverse side effects you've been having.

[Wedgebuster]

Tman, like most of your posts, this is bullshit. Those people were not told to stop praying, they were told to keep their nursury rhyme bullshit to themselves and not bother the other customers, so fuck you. We all have to tolerate various members of your family preaching on the street corners, loudly, and passing out copies of the bible the size of a sugar cube. Ok? We all do and no one cares. The minute those motherfuckers enter a building pay for by me, he or they need to shut the fuck up about baby jesus and the blessed virgin mary while I'm trying to eat or get my drivers license.

Like all these "christian victim" stories, if they really were quietly mumbling their stupid fucking prayers, THERE WOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM.

*Keep em coming Tbag, it's fun to see Houndawg and Wedge tear you up.

Well, first, the problem which created this dispute arose from the meals being government funded, not the senior center.

Second, Wedge posted pictures of homeless panhandler signs...which have nothing to do with this topic.

Third, the only thing Hempdawg has ever "torn up" is a package of defective Zig-Zag papers.



You might want to speak to your Doctor about these adverse side effects you've been having.

Caught Me!!



Actually, each and every original cardboard pan handler sign mentioned thanks to God, Jesus, or similar. It is a good depiction as to where one's religious/superstitious beliefs may be displayed without running into the separation of church and state issue.


And, since when does my image posting have to be on topic, or even relevant to the threads?

[89Hen]

The minute those motherfuckers enter a building pay for by me, he or they need to shut the fuck up about baby jesus and the blessed virgin mary while I'm trying to eat or get my drivers license.

You're still wrong. Put down the shovel, you're entering the Earth's core.

[travelinman67]

Well, first, the problem which created this dispute arose from the meals being government funded, not the senior center.

Second, Wedge posted pictures of homeless panhandler signs...which have nothing to do with this topic.

Third, the only thing Hempdawg has ever "torn up" is a package of defective Zig-Zag papers.



You might want to speak to your Doctor about these adverse side effects you've been having.

Actually, each and every original cardboard pan handler sign mentioned thanks to God, Jesus, or similar. It is a good depiction as to where one's religious/superstitious beliefs may be displayed without running into the separation of church and state issue.

...or indicae that the only people the downtrodden can rely on to embody humanity and stewardship are Christian.

[ASUMountaineer]

Bingo!

If they want to allow people to say a prayer to their God, then they need to make time for EVERYONE to say a prayer to their specific religious icon(s) - without getting shouted down or drowned out by the majority's prayers. Dinner could get pretty cold by the time each individual group finishes their prayers.

Or, they could simply allow people to have a moment of silence so as not to distract others...those with conflicting prayers or non-prayers, from their meal. Wow, what a concept.

Amazing how people take offense to a simple request to be respectful of others.

Bingo - keep your christian, muslim and jew and buddhist, and hindu, and atheist bullshit to YOURSELF.

Just thought I'd add a few more. Oh, and I agree. They can't stop people from praying aloud in a public setting, but when I pray in a public setting, I do so quietly. It's just common courtesy.

[ASUMountaineer]

And again, that was 200+ years ago, *******. Lots have happened since.

Well, as long as we agree that the First Amendment Establishment Clause was not understood when it was ratified to mean "Separation of Church and State" as that terminology is applied today, we can at least have the discussion on an honest basis. The worst situation is when people try to claim that the people who ratified the First Amendment would have construed it to mean stuff like not having prayer at athletic events, in public schools, etc....much less in a situation like this.

Of course, the people who ratified the First Amendment would also have probably said that the Federal government has no business funding meals for Senior Citizen centers to begin with.

Holy...I agree with JSO. Providing meals to Senior centers was clearly not within the scope of the federal government to the founders. However, I think this whole issue is "much ado about nothing." They haven't prohibited the people from saying grace, only doing so publicly, in front of all of the seniors.

I would go so far as to say I don't have a real problem with this move whether public funds are in play or not. It's bad business for the center to allow this, as it could be offensive to paying members. Recently I was at a conference for work, if they started off with a prayer to Yahweh, I would not enjoy that--as I'm not Jewish. Has nothing to do with who funds what, it has to do with being respectful of fellow humans.

[Wedgebuster]

Well, as long as we agree that the First Amendment Establishment Clause was not understood when it was ratified to mean "Separation of Church and State" as that terminology is applied today, we can at least have the discussion on an honest basis. The worst situation is when people try to claim that the people who ratified the First Amendment would have construed it to mean stuff like not having prayer at athletic events, in public schools, etc....much less in a situation like this.

Of course, the people who ratified the First Amendment would also have probably said that the Federal government has no business funding meals for Senior Citizen centers to begin with.

Holy...I agree with JSO.

A caveat, there were no old people in those days. So that is probably a damn good reason they would have been against health care as well.

[houndawg]

Bingo - keep your christian, muslim and jew and buddhist, and hindu, and atheist bullshit to YOURSELF.

Just thought I'd add a few more. Oh, and I agree. They can't stop people from praying aloud in a public setting, but when I pray in a public setting, I do so quietly. It's just common courtesy.

There it is - problem solved.

[DJH]

D1B is such a lonely person. Its too bad.